(UK) Knife amnesty nets 17,700 weapons


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Drizzt
June 16, 2006, 02:08 PM
Knife amnesty nets 17,700 weapons

Carrying a knife can land you a four-year jail term

Over 17,700 weapons were handed in during the first week of the national knives amnesty, the Home Office said.

Machetes, meat cleavers and axes as well as knives were among the haul of 17,715 surrendered to the 43 police forces across England and Wales.

Home office minister Vernon Coaker said the results were "encouraging".

The five-week amnesty, running until 30 June, allows people to surrender knives at police stations without fear of punishment.

Mr Coaker urged those who had not yet handed in their weapons to do so.

"The initial figures for the first week of that campaign are very encouraging, " he said.

"That is 17,715 fewer weapons that can be used in a crime against ordinary, law-abiding citizens.

"If you carry a knife out of self-defence, you run the risk of having it turned on you. Carrying a knife is illegal and will not be tolerated. It could land you four years in prison"

'Significant step'

As well as knives, Devon and Cornwall police also received an 8lb anti-tank rocket launcher, known as a "tankbuster", which has a range of up to 350 metres.

A force spokesman said: "The amnesty is for all weapons and if someone wants to get rid of a rocket launcher, that's fine by us."

Devon and Cornwall's assistant chief constable, Tony Melville, who is also a member of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said the haul was "a significant step towards making our streets safer".

The initiative, running in England, Wales and Scotland comes amid growing concern at the level of knife crime in the wake of a series of fatal stabbings.

Police say that from 1 July tough action will be taken on those found armed with knives.

However, some families of victims of knife crime have questioned the effectiveness of an amnesty, calling instead for tougher sentencing.

Last month 15-year-old Kiyan Prince died from a stab wound after being attacked outside his school in Edgware, north London.

And last week Alex Mulumba Kamondo, also 15, died after being knifed through the heart during a street fight in Lambeth, south London.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5086922.stm

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NoPhilly
June 16, 2006, 02:14 PM
I'm confused... Is it illegal to simply own a certain type of knife in the U.K.?

Why would anyone turn in a meat cleaver or an ax? How will they cook? Or split firewood? Why not simply keep the knife home?

Are knightsticks illegal in the U.K. (to carry) as well?

torpid
June 16, 2006, 02:23 PM
Are knightsticks illegal in the U.K. (to carry) as well?

Do you mean "nightstick"?
A knightstick is a mace. :D

NoPhilly
June 16, 2006, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I meant a "nightstick." :o By a mace, you mean that stick with the metal ball & chain on the end? The one I've seen at the museums?

With the U.K.'s "knife amnesty" program in effect, what options are available for personal defence for the average citizen? Is pepper spray banned as well?

Iggy
June 16, 2006, 02:37 PM
I suppose someday will have to gather up all our spare knives to re-arm them when a famine or other culinary crisis arises....:rolleyes:

That's if we still have any ourselves............

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 03:08 PM
Here is my big 'Two-fingered salute' to the nanny state:

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/173/knivesbitch4lu.jpg

The Glock knife and the Smith&Wesson Bootknife arrived today, along with a few other goodies, including a rather nifty sharpening kit. I have had the U.S (M3?) trench knife for a little while now, it is a beauty to behold. :D

longeyes
June 16, 2006, 03:11 PM
England "red in tooth and claw."

Well, no longer, apparently.

Daniel T
June 16, 2006, 03:14 PM
Knife amnesty nets 17,700 weapons

Well, that's all of them then! Good job boys, pack it up and head home!

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 03:18 PM
It really is depressing you know. People here don't know how to look after themselves as a result of this kind of legislation, they are completely dependant on the Police. You hardly ever see the police in my town, unless they feel like a nice little drug raid on the local pubs.

Bah! :cuss:

I bet that all of these stabbings will continue.

sacp81170a
June 16, 2006, 03:22 PM
If you carry a knife out of self-defence, you run the risk of having it turned on you.

Haven't we heard this in reference to guns before? What about a rock? A brick? Hey! I know, I'll carry an Epilady for self defense. Then at least when it's "turned on me" I'll at least look better. :rolleyes:

Baba Louie
June 16, 2006, 03:23 PM
Perfidious Albion strikes yet again another blow to the good people who made Her great. I'm sure that the criminal ilk have turned in all of their sharpened pieces of steel, eh w'at?

cromlech, you're verging on the edge of becoming a maniacal scaliwag, I tell ya. ;)

That is 17,715 fewer weapons that can be used in a crime against ordinary, law-abiding citizens

sigh... or for carving a Christmas goose.

"That's one less rocket launcher that can be used in a crime against the ordinary, law-abiding citizens"... LOL

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 03:30 PM
Baba Louie wrote: cromlech, you're verging on the edge of becoming a maniacal scaliwag, I tell ya.

Haha, yeah I guess I like to vent a little bit. However, I don't post my thoughts on the whole 'JBT' thing, or about overthrowing the government, because we don't really have freedom of speech here. It would not stand me in good stead to have comments like those of some Americans on this board presented in a court case.

Not that I am planning on doing anything illegal, but you get the idea.

Baba Louie
June 16, 2006, 03:38 PM
cromlech
What was it Thoreau wrote, "On the Course of Civil Disobediance"? Of course he was only writing about slavery, taxes and the Mexican War.

When they outlaw rocks only outlaws will have rocks.

Would love to have one of these Puma saufeder's...
http://www.pumaknives.com:443/?n=store&b=44&pl=59&p=127

Wonder if that qualifies as a knife w/ a 6 ft handle?

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 03:42 PM
That link turned out broken for me Baba Louie, but I looked up the website home address. They have some nice blades there! :D

If only I lived in Vermont/Alaska/Montana/Texas, instead of this pseudo-socialist nightmare. :fire:

Cosmoline
June 16, 2006, 03:43 PM
Cromlech--I don't know how you can stand it over there. But it's nice to know there's some vestige of sanity left in the UK. What's really hilarious is to watch the Brits who try to defend the policy on other forums (or Agricola here). They ardently insist this isn't really going to impact *THEM*, only those yobbos and yardies. The frog is at this point almost entirely in the boiling water, but still he croaks his protestations that the cook is being perfectly reasonable and the water is only luke warm (never mind the bubbles or the smell of meat). And the cook? Oh, he still has HIS knife.

romma
June 16, 2006, 03:46 PM
Is there any kind of voice for liberty and self defense in England? At what point do people who are fed up actually get organized over there? I feel sorry for them....

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 03:52 PM
They ardently insist this isn't really going to impact *THEM*, only those yobbos and yardies.

That is because, for the most part, the shooting community are a bunch of toffs who ride around on huge horses chasing little foxes with the added fun of a pack of dogs.

I am sure that the firearm owning community in the U.S.A stick together more, but over here people are only willing to protest if someone threatens to take away their precious SxS Holland & Holland.

I'm far too young to be this bitter already . . .:(

Battler
June 16, 2006, 03:53 PM
Actually, the knife bans really won't ban any "ordinary" people. . . . that's technially correct.

Picture the british equivalent of someone in your social standing/job. He doesn't carry a knife, and is scared at the sight of them. Gun? No way.

"Ordinary" people do not plan self defense with weapons in the UK, and they fear people who do.

That is the origin of such laws, not the gov.

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 04:02 PM
Battler Is right, unfortunately. Most people here are scared to death of weapons, and those that wield them.

ball3006
June 16, 2006, 05:06 PM
in England since there isn't any kitchen tools to cut up your bully beef with. What happened to the lion that roared............chris3

sterling180
June 16, 2006, 05:37 PM
That is because, for the most part, the shooting community are a bunch of toffs who ride around on huge horses chasing little foxes with the added fun of a pack of dogs.

Yes,but target-shooters,that shoot unconventional weapons are considered to be potential psychos like that loony at Hungerford.That guy,as I have said many times before-dressed up like a militia man,in the USA-and went around firing his AK47,M1 Carbine and shotgun,at anything that moved.He even had a couple of fragmentation grenades and some pipe-bombs,to take care of the swat team-when he eventually hid in his former high-school.

Anything that is semi-automatic or pump-action,seems to bring some near to tears-particulary some sensitive women.It takes alot of time and effort to comfort them,after.By the way,Im serious and I am not joking either.Firearms certainly can cause some women to sob-i've seen it and I felt awful,because I tried to explain that I would never kill a person-with them.

Others are just rude and would shun you-because they are biased towards shooting-sports and towards knife ownership.They think that you would be the next Fred West,John Duffy,Jeremy Bamber,Ian Huntley and Daniel Gonzales,because you like knives.

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 05:43 PM
Yeah, I do know what you mean there sterling180. This topic brings out strong reactions in the average U.K dweller. Especially the more sensitive types.

The Real Hawkeye
June 16, 2006, 05:50 PM
You have to wonder if they have any idea what those words sound like in the ears of an American. It's really hard to believe things have gotten that far along in England. Don't the people have any say in their laws over there? I can't imagine that most English people want the police to confiscate their knives. Don't they realize that the only people turning them in are the people who scrupulously follow the law, i.e., people who wouldn't pose a criminal threat to anyone? No mugger is going to turn his in. They're all having a jolly good laugh at all this victim disarmament. The government, they must be thinking, is working for them now.

GrizzlyGraves
June 16, 2006, 06:02 PM
I am am proud to have dual citizenship in the US and the UK but I will NEVER live in that socialized big brother nanny state. They heve been overrun by the liberals and are selling themselves out to militant Islam at the same time.

They can't have guns, they can't have knives and they can't even fly their OWN FLAG for fear of offending the Muslims who have invaded their country. :banghead:

Once a proud nation with a long and rich history, England has been reduced to the pathetic quivering mass of spinlesness that Americans will take up arms to prevent happening here.

Cromlech
June 16, 2006, 06:02 PM
The Real Hawkeye, you would think that is the case wouldn't you? To be honest though, this type of thing goes down rather well with a large portion of the men and women of the U.K! They seem to think that all the criminals are just misunderstood, impoverished and confused youths, that need our love and support.

A lot of people here don't like facing the facts. Me and you, as well as most on this board, know that criminals don't obey the law (By definition) and have now been offered even easier targets.

sterling180
June 16, 2006, 06:04 PM
No,they are not having a laugh,at the populations folly-at all.The government,believes that we don't need weapons and do this,because they think that it is the right and moral,thing to do.They don't want people to die,from combat knives or guns-that they think have no place in our society.

If you watch Blair carefully,his voice is very emotional on these issues and there seems to be almost a tear in his eyes.I noticed this after the Dunblane tragedy,10 years ago.

Zedicus
June 16, 2006, 06:11 PM
Is this much of a surprise coming from a Country in which if a Panicky Busybody calls the cops on a Kid playing in their yard with one of these
http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/03/56/kifmToysAllSuper_Soaker_CPS_1200_CPS_1700_CPS_27001-resized200.jpg
And said cops send an Armed Response unit (UK Swat Team) to arrest the kid and their parents at the point of MP5's (safety's off & set on auto) ?

Some will no doubt accuse me of spewing BS on this & I won't blame them, I saw it happen with my own eyes and I even had trouble believing it after seeing it happen in person...

The Real Hawkeye
June 16, 2006, 06:18 PM
No,they are not having a laugh,at the populations folly-at all.The government,believes that we don't need weapons and do this,because they think that it is the right and moral,thing to do.They don't want people to die,from combat knives or guns-that they think have no place in our society.

If you watch Blair carefully,his voice is very emotional on these issues and there seems to be almost a tear in his eyes.I noticed this after the Dunblane tragedy,10 years ago.No doubt they are all true believers. I was referring to the brigands having a good laugh. They are the wolves of British society, and the government is making their predation efforts on the sheeple that much easier with laws like this. I'm sure that the predators both find it amusing, and appreciate that their jobs are being made easier and safer (for them) by your government.

Pilgrim
June 17, 2006, 12:06 AM
I suppose if you go to a restaurant in Great Britain your steak or roast comes out pre cut into bite sized pieces?

Pilgrim

romma
June 17, 2006, 12:07 AM
The British people wake up one day to realize they are just a tax paying cattle herd. And the government witholds their "feed". Absolutely no means to stand up to tyranny is a terrifying notion indeed. I pray it never gets that way here. That is why the world needs americans with gun rights more than ever. WE are about the only ones left in the world. And once we are out of the way,, there will be no slowing down the machine of world-wide slavery.

Dmack_901
June 17, 2006, 02:28 AM
I was there just a week ago on vacation. This place was "enlightening". There were speeding cameras everywhere, but lines on the road with allerted drivers to slow down. Cameras were everywhere, and no one seemed to mind. But more importantly, everything was god awfully expensive. The conversion rate wouldn't have been too bad if we didn't have to pay a %18 VAT tax on about everything we bought. And just think everyone has to pay an additonal %10-%40 income tax, and god knows what else. And that's ignoring the extra costs of their protectionist, EU food "saftey" schemes.

The British people wake up one day to realize they are just a tax paying cattle herd.I'd say they're more slaves than cattle. The governmnet garnishes such a large portion of wages through the several taxes that when measuring pay in terms of disposable income, you find that they arn't truely payed at all. The money is just taken and used to provide for their "wellbeing"(like room and food for slaves). They're just left with enough to lie to themselves with; you know, "Get yourself a TV and keep occupied."

But getting back on track; I don't understand the logic...

If a knife carried in self defence has a significant change of being used against its carrier. Then wouldn't that mean we should better arm criminals, in order to give the victims a fighting chance?

sterling180
June 17, 2006, 04:12 AM
I suppose if you go to a restaurant in Great Britain your steak or roast comes out pre cut into bite sized pieces?

No,not quite.Steak,carving and dinner knives are used for the purpose of cutting meat and vegtables.It's knives that are used for combat that are being targeted,because at the end of the day,you can't really ban kitchen and table knives-can you? A combat knife is used to kill,says the antis and even The Daily Sport newspaper,ran an anti-knife campaign-to rid the country of combat knives.They also ran a similar campaign to rid the country of pistols and other guns-after Dunblane.

Blair attended the Queens birthday meal,yesterday and so did our former PM John Major.Those two anger me,because of what they did to the UK pistol-shooters-over Dunblane.All those policies were only intended,to gain votes-for elections.

I don't believe it is about control,I believe that Labour are a nanny-state,that truely believes that weapons shouldn't be allowed.If they ban bolt-action rifles,then guess who will not be amused? The Queen,that is who.I don't think that Queenie,will like Blair for that-after all Holland and Holland make bolt-action rifles for the Royal family.

Cromlech
June 17, 2006, 07:56 AM
Methinks Queenie will have to set the Corgis on him if he tries that.

Those of you in America, take note, if you haven't already.

It is possible for things to get worse for you, just look what it's like here. Of course it would be a much slower transition in America, no politician in their right mind would up and say "Owning firearms is to be prohibited.". Instead they will use increasingly strict new legislation and trading laws to wear down your RKBA year after year, until you arrive at the U.K situation.

Of course, most of the posters on here are aware of that. So don't let it happen guys! :)

agricola
June 17, 2006, 09:18 AM
Is this much of a surprise coming from a Country in which if a Panicky Busybody calls the cops on a Kid playing in their yard with one of these

And said cops send an Armed Response unit (UK Swat Team) to arrest the kid and their parents at the point of MP5's (safety's off & set on auto) ?

Some will no doubt accuse me of spewing BS on this & I won't blame them, I saw it happen with my own eyes and I even had trouble believing it after seeing it happen in person...

I dont blame anyone who doesnt believe you about it either, given your track record on similar stories.

Nightfall
June 17, 2006, 11:17 AM
Does anybody there really believe that combat knives are more lethal than a steak knife? Sharp 'n' pointy is sharp 'n' pointy.

Then again, people over here believe that a rifle banned under the AWB is much more lethal than one not. :rolleyes:

Cromlech
June 17, 2006, 11:40 AM
Nightfall wrote: Does anybody there really believe that combat knives are more lethal than a steak knife?

In reality, we all know that a knife designed to cut flesh and bone, be it a buchers knife or a combat knife is just as deadly. However, combat knives fall into the same category as the Evil Black Rifle. They look like the knife a killer would use, despite the price tag for decent ones being £20 (Glock knife) up to £150 (Recon Bowie et cetera).

All the thugs in this country favour cheap folding knives and cutlery. Easy to get, cheap to buy.

Kurush
June 17, 2006, 12:43 PM
When knives are outlawed... only outlaws will eat solid food http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:sgQ7QAC98TJ7yM:http://home.tiscalinet.ch/chriskuert/smiley/bandit.gif

jazurell
June 17, 2006, 01:15 PM
Now that the knives and guns are all gone, guess they can fire all the police....they should no longer be needed with the weapons all given to the government.:banghead:

sterling180
June 17, 2006, 03:41 PM
Now that the knives and guns are all gone, guess they can fire all the police....they should no longer be needed with the weapons all given to the government.

Knives and guns haven't all been made illegal and destroyed.After Hungerford,most assault weapons and all sporting pump and semi-auto centrefire rifles-and after Dunblane,most types of pistols and revolvers.In saying this a .22 rimfire version,can still be legally obtained on a firearms license.

In 1988/1989,flick knives were banned in the UK,but Bowies,K-bars,machete's and other types of fighting and survival knives are still legal,and can be bought over the counter,in any military/outdoor shop,firearms dealers and can be bought over the internet and mailed to the front door-in the post.

So,it is pointless to say that all guns and knives are banned,in the UK.Only most assault-weapons and handguns are.

jazurell
June 17, 2006, 05:09 PM
Hmmm....did I use "banned"....
Just saying that the nanny state laws will not eliminate crime....only will make people feel good and get re-elected.:)

Zedicus
June 17, 2006, 06:30 PM
agricola: I don't blame anyone who doesn't believe you about it either, given your track record on similar stories.

Gee, that coming from you means...oh let's see (0+0 = 0 ) basically No Difference.

Track Record? what Track Record? Oh! You mean the things I posted in the past that actualy Happened, that the UK does not want known, and you did not bother to actually research.

Why not try researching something before Dismissing it as so much nonsense?
You claim to be a London cop so you will undoubtedly have access to Records of things that even the Mainstram Media won't, so look it up!.

In this Instance I can only describe an Event which I witnessed in Person, I never saw it in any Civilian news Report (Newspaper or TV) so I have no proof other than what I saw with my own eyes.

In all honesty, the attitude which you are taking is Reminiscent of a mix of 2 things, the 4 Monkeys, and the Government agents in Movies and books who use lines like "You Never Saw this And I Was Never here!":rolleyes:

Either way, the fact remains that I saw what I saw, I don't care in the slightest if some people prefer to not believe it without any investigation into it's validity/credibility, in a attempt at self Delusion, that's up to them.

Malice
June 17, 2006, 06:32 PM
"Others are just rude and would shun you-because they are biased towards shooting-sports and towards knife ownership.They think that you would be the next Fred West,John Duffy,Jeremy Bamber,Ian Huntley and Daniel Gonzales,because you like knives."

This kills me. It really baffles me. KNIFE OWNERSHIP?

***?

The fact that "knife ownership" is a useable term... I.... uh.... ugh... :barf:

Phil123
June 17, 2006, 07:09 PM
Hey im new to these forums and find it an interesting read. I'm from Northern Ireland, and being part of the UK we have the same laws on guns and knifes. I find it an absolute joke here in the UK... we are charged double for everything and we cant do anything.. hell we may as well be communist wouldn't change a god damn thing. This knife thing aint gonna make the country safer, dont be stupid. We need our laws changed, this country is back to front from chavs (white trash Americans call em i think) If guns where legal here, damn right i'd carry one for protection. Stupid assed government making it easier for criminals to do things, someone breaks into your house what do you do? "Stop ... please dont steal that oh nooo oh nooooo dont please" then call the police and wait 2 days for them to phone you back.

ACP230
June 17, 2006, 07:45 PM
Talkin' Knife Banning Rag.

"Come on all you big strong British men,
Time to turn all your pen knives in,
Tony Blair's in a terrible spot,
So all blade owners--hand over the lot.
Don't fuss and quarrel, don't be cross,
Just turn all your knives over to us..."

(With apologies to Country Joe And The Fish.)

I used to have a certain, grudging respect for the Brits....

G36-UK
June 17, 2006, 08:29 PM
This kills me. It really baffles me. KNIFE OWNERSHIP?

***?

The fact that "knife ownership" is a useable term... I.... uh.... ugh...

I think he means the ornate blades that some licensed shops sell. It seems most people think of blade owners as "big mad mental chib" people.

I'd like to point out that the Airsoft community has been on the recieving end of a few ARU/SO19/CO19 encounters, especially when a neighbour spots an enthusiast "plinking" in their back garden, resulting in a great deal of hassle for the person which includes the equipment being confiscated for ballistics tests, at least in some of the incidents I'm aware of.

leadcounsel
June 17, 2006, 08:44 PM
I find it hard to reconcile this from the Brits.

I have lived in Scotland and have known many Brits. I would characterize the Brits as being very intelligent, hard working, tough people. They are always willing to stand up for themselves, what is right, and what is sensible, based on my experience.

I have several close British friends too. I just don't understand how a group of intelligent proud people can be nannied like this.

Cromlech
June 17, 2006, 08:55 PM
Hey there, leadcounsel. I understand what you mean, it's disturbing to see the extent that the wannabe-socialists that run this Country will go to.

Phil123
June 18, 2006, 09:23 AM
I really hate the UK's laws on self defence, if someone breaks into your house you can basically do f.a. Was like a farmer who shot two people who broke into his house, one died and he got sent to prison.

leadcounsel
June 18, 2006, 09:59 AM
It's interesting to note that with their BAN on guns, they still have a very high gun crime rate!

It'll be interesting to watch their knife crime rate soar too after this BAN...

How can such relatively intelligent people be SO BAD at policy making in this area...

Oh wait, it's probably because they still have a QUEEN... :what:

motorep
June 18, 2006, 10:04 AM
All together now..."Baaaaa, Baaaaaa, Baaaaa...":banghead:

stratomole
June 18, 2006, 10:27 AM
Don't come to Suffolk if you don't want to get stabbed. There's a bunch of crazy US servicemembers with knives running around here.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=144&article=37920

By Ben Murray, Stars and Stripes
UK weekly edition, Wednesday, June 14, 2006

RAF MILDENHALL — Thousands of knives have been handed in to authorities across England since a highly visible campaign was launched May 24 to reduce knife-related crimes. None of those knives came from the local U.S. bases.

The five-week knife amnesty allows citizens to turn knives and edged weapons over to police without fear of prosecution, as some U.S. cities do with handguns.

At the local American bases, where Ministry of Defence police have put out red bins for knife collection, so far not a single blade has been turned in, said Mildenhall MOD community liaison officer Police Constable Paul Glover.

In contrast, in the first week of the nationwide program, 84 knives were turned over in Suffolk County, home to RAFs Lakenheath and Mildenhall, mostly in the form of “domestic” or kitchen knives, according to police.

Next door in Norfolk County, 505 were given to police by June 1, and Cambridgeshire authorities collected 212 in the first seven days of the amnesty.

The low visibility of the on-base collection points — a single red garbage bin has been set at the main gate of both Lakenheath and Mildenhall — might have something to do with it, he said.

Other reasons for low participation, community members said, are that Americans know little about knife-carrying laws in England, and generally don’t think of knives as a major threat.

“Being American probably does that to you,” said Kristi Jensen, an employee at The Spanish Gift Shop at RAF Mildenhall. Raised in a culture where gun crime is considered the most pervasive mortal threat, Jensen and fellow employee Kelly Carpenter said they just don’t view knives with the same eye as many English citizens.

Even Tech. Sgt. Joe Aylsworth from RAF Lakenheath, who has two children in British high schools, said knife crime isn’t an overwhelming concern for his family.

Aylsworth said his kids realize most of the kids at their school carry knives.

“They realize kids get picked on, so they kind of feel they need that,” he said.

Local residents may draw comfort from the fact that, as a largely rural area bordered by bigger towns, knife crime in the immediate area is low.

Glover said he has “not known any” stabbing or slashing incidents to have occurred at Lakenheath or Mildenhall in recent years.

But that’s not the case everywhere in Britain, where highly restrictive gun laws make knives, swords and bladed weapons prevalent in violent crime. Those weapons are used in close to 30 percent of the nation’s homicides.

Firearms, by contrast, were used in 8 percent of homicides in the 2004/2005 period covered by a recent crime report generated by the government’s Home Office.

Knives also have been used in the recent spate of fatal stabbings that hit the country in the past month, which have helped renew calls for government action.

Back on the American bases, Aylsworth, Carpenter and Jensen all said they have knives in their homes that would be illegal to carry in public in Britain, though they didn’t plan to hand them in. In England, it’s legal to keep blades of most lengths in your home or business, but illegal to take them out in public.

Aylsworth, however, said he has at least partially adopted the British outlook on knives and blades, and views the antique swords he has in his house in that light.

“I almost think of them now as if I had guns in the house,” he said.


What’s illegal when it comes to knives

When it comes to knowing the laws concerning carrying a knife in England, there’s one good rule of thumb you can use, said Ministry of Defence Police Constable Paul Glover: “Nobody should have a knife with them in a public place.”

That being said, there are exceptions, Glover said. The only knife you can legally carry with you in public is a folding knife with a blade of less than three inches long, such as many Swiss army knives, he said.

Knives with locking blades, those with three-inch or longer or serrated blades, even multi-tools with locking blades, all are technically illegal outside of your home, Glover said.

Larger blades, such as decorative swords and some martial arts equipment, are also illegal to bring out in public, he said, noting one major caveat: Under English statute, bases such as RAFs Mildenhall and Lakenheath are not considered “public.”

It’s also on those bases that servicemembers can buy large, unsharpened swords and razor-sharp hunting and utility knives with blades running out to 3.75 inches — a fact that doesn’t sit well with MOD police.

“We don’t think they should be sold on base,” Glover said. Other no-nos: mace, brass knuckles, throwing stars, batons, butterfly knives and disguised blades. All are considered offensive weapons and illegal wherever they are in England.

The only excuses for having a knife on you in public is if you need it to perform your job, Glover said.

“If you’ve got no reason to have it, you’re committing an offense,” he said.

— Ben Murray

Cromlech
June 18, 2006, 10:34 AM
Just to give you an example of the situation here, with laws prohibiting the carrying of blades that are over 3" long and not on a folding knife:

Hypothetical situation
I'm carrying my S&W HRT Bootknife, walking back from the pub. Along the way I am accosted by a group of youths intent on mugging and beating me, I am backed into a corner and attacked. To defend myself, I manage to draw my bootknife and fight off the attackers, who decide to run off when faced with an armed target. In the fight, I manage to wound two of the attackers.

The Police are called, when they turn up I am arrested for 'Carrying an offensive weapon' and 'Assault with a deadly weapon'. The Police also round up the muggers, and arrest them.

Two of the muggers are under 18 (Which is often the case here in the U.K), so are let off with community service and maybe a month in juvenile prison. The others, get away with maybe 6 months in jail, if any at all on account of injuries sustained.

I get maximum 2 years for carrying the knife (Soon to be 5 years if John Reid gets his way), and an assault leading to actual bodily harm comes with a 5 year prison sentence.

Which means a potential 5 year jail sentence for the victim of a mugging.

Think that the Police/Prosecution/Jury will be sympathetic to the fact that you were defending yourself? Hah! Only if you were unarmed! They will see you as a dangerous individual, willing to resort to lethal force, using a 'deadly weapon'.

agricola
June 18, 2006, 11:03 AM
I'm carrying my S&W HRT Bootknife, walking back from the pub. Along the way I am accosted by a group of youths intent on mugging and beating me, I am backed into a corner and attacked. To defend myself, I manage to draw my bootknife and fight off the attackers, who decide to run off when faced with an armed target. In the fight, I manage to wound two of the attackers.

The Police are called, when they turn up I am arrested for 'Carrying an offensive weapon' and 'Assault with a deadly weapon'. The Police also round up the muggers, and arrest them.

Two of the muggers are under 18 (Which is often the case here in the U.K), so are let off with community service and maybe a month in juvenile prison. The others, get away with maybe 6 months in jail, if any at all on account of injuries sustained.

I get maximum 2 years for carrying the knife (Soon to be 5 years if John Reid gets his way), and an assault leading to actual bodily harm comes with a 5 year prison sentence.

Which means a potential 5 year jail sentence for the victim of a mugging.

Think that the Police/Prosecution/Jury will be sympathetic to the fact that you were defending yourself? Hah! Only if you were unarmed! They will see you as a dangerous individual, willing to resort to lethal force, using a 'deadly weapon'.

Of course, the reason why its hypothetical is because its wrong. Self defence, even with an illegally held weapon, is not illegal.

BigRobT
June 18, 2006, 11:11 AM
I guess people think that one can't be killed with a knife that's 3" or less?? The 9/11 hijackers used box cutters for crying out loud!! What's the exposed blade length on those?? may 1.5"?? All in all, this is just a bunch of "feelgood" legislation and nonsense. I guess the UK will outlaw kung fu fighting next?? Judo?? Every other martial art/ sport?? Every Judoka KNOWS that "Judo" means "the gentle way" so it can't be deadly, can it?? :scrutiny: :banghead:

Cromlech
June 18, 2006, 11:11 AM
agricola Of course, the reason why its hypothetical is because its wrong. Self defence, even with an illegally held weapon, is not illegal.

Just what, exactly, is the rationale behind that? Are you saying that if I am out on the street with a prohibited object, and use said object in self defense it's all perfectly legal?

agricola
June 18, 2006, 11:14 AM
Cromlech,

Just what, exactly, is the rationale behind that? Are you saying that if I am out on the street with a prohibited object, and use said object in self defense it's all perfectly legal?

Basically yes. The status of the weapon wouldnt change (so you would still get charged with having an offensive weapon or having a pointed or bladed article) but using it to defend yourself wouldnt be illegal.

Cromlech
June 18, 2006, 11:20 AM
Ok, agricola, I understand now.

I was under the (mistaken) impression that you were implying that no charges would be made at all.

So whether someone wounded the muggers with his fists, or with a blade, it's still just legal self-defense?

agricola
June 18, 2006, 11:50 AM
So whether someone wounded the muggers with his fists, or with a blade, it's still just legal self-defense?

As long as they were defending themselves, yes.

Nightfall
June 18, 2006, 02:58 PM
Aylsworth, however, said he has at least partially adopted the British outlook on knives and blades, and views the antique swords he has in his house in that light.

“I almost think of them now as if I had guns in the house,” he said.*sigh*

longeyes
June 18, 2006, 03:22 PM
I'm one of the British-loving Americans who'd like to know how the heck this all happened Over There? You Brits were always tough as they come, and Americans in general have a deep respect and fondness for your culture. What caused this mass transformation in so short a time? Anyone?

The Real Hawkeye
June 18, 2006, 04:03 PM
Maybe the british are trying to set up the criminal underclass as a new branch of government?Yes, perhaps they will adopt a new House of Parliament, The House or Thugs, to go along with the Houses of Lords and Commons.

leadcounsel
June 18, 2006, 05:27 PM
Britian has been overrun by criminals from other nations coming to prey on their weak and unarmed citiznes, that's what happened.

There are two possible responses to the invasion of the Nigerians, Gypsies, and other unwanted sorts in England.

1) Liberalize gun laws and make citizens able to carry and own weapons a la the United States. This would have a significant deterrant on crime. Brits are generally responsible, intelligent law abiding folks who should have the ability to defend themselves. The criminal types would stop preying on the citizens;

OR

2) Outlaw guns and still have 8% of your homicides from gunshots and get surprised (but I thought those were all turned in...!). Next get surprised that 30% of homicides are knife related. Outlaw knives and get surprised that homicides haven't declined. What's next, pointed sticks and rocks??


I don't wish anything bad on the Brits, but it's an experiment that is destined to fail and leave behind a lot of innocent Brit victims.

Pilot
June 18, 2006, 06:11 PM
I can hear Winston Churchill now...."We will fight them on the beaches.....by throwing sand in their faces...."

Oh, and how long will it be until teeth are outlawed? They're sharp, they're pointy, someone can bite you with them. Sigh.


:rolleyes:

Iain
June 18, 2006, 06:26 PM
What law is it that people seem to think has changed?

agricola
June 18, 2006, 06:55 PM
Iain,

Dont for a minute try and enter logic into this "debate". Just let them rant themselves out, then go for their tv dinners.

:neener:

xd9fan
June 19, 2006, 02:00 AM
Has Europe's forefathers learned anything in the last....oh maybe 60 years or so.

V for victory...no thats not it (history is not being learned)....V for Vendetta....no its just a movie......V for Valor....no not anymore.........oh this is it...

V for Victim

Good Luck England....you will need it.

evan price
June 19, 2006, 02:22 AM
I reference The Simpsons, Treehouse Of Horror II, the episode with Homer buying the Monkey's Paw and getting wishes? Lisa wishes for world peace. Everybody destroys their weapons... then the aliens land...!

Kang and Kodos: People of Earth! We come to you in the spirit of hostility and menace!
Kang and Kodos: Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!

The aliens enslave the world with their weapons: A slingshot and a club! Finally, somebody shows up with a board with a nail in it and drives the aliens off of Earth...


Kodos: It looks like the Earthlings won.
Kang: Did they? Right now they have a board with a nail in it. But they won't stop there. Soon they will make bigger boards with bigger nails until they make a board with a nail in it so big it will destroy them all!

lance22
June 19, 2006, 10:31 AM
I suppose the "knife ban" isn't as bad as the "alarmists" say? Tell me what part of putting out bins for knives, or only outlawing "assault knives" is good? You say we are all on a long rant w/o logic or basis in fact ... the part of it that is true merits every last bit of this rant. Hearing people/Brits say that nothing has changed or the law only affects "some" knives just goes to show how far gone people are. I think if you listen to what is being said in these "unreasoned rants" you might learn a thing or two about liberty.

Or ... maybe this just illustrates how Hitler was able to take all of Europe and Scandanavia in such a short period of time. People who won't take up arms ALWAYS end up having to be rescues by people who WILL. The iron-men in England who faced off alone against Hitler are rolling over in their graves.

Iain
June 19, 2006, 11:08 AM
The amnesty is entirely optional. You can own what you like, it can be 8 foot long and serrated, you just can't carry it on the streets. Now there might be an issue there, but it seems to me (and I expect future posters to carry on in this vein because they don't read the whole thread) that people are somehow equating amnesty with ban. And that isn't correct.

lance22
June 19, 2006, 12:32 PM
I do appreciate your reply. You are in England and I am not. I can only say that I'm concerned about what I'm hearing ...

The following is my pocket knife. It is not carried for defence but for beef, chicken, pork, and unopened packages. How would a fine tool like this fit into Brittish society? All I'm trying to figure out is, is the possession of a blade (in public) a crime or isn't it?

http://www.theknifeconnection.com/ProductImages/benchmade/BM12800S[1].jpg

We also have knife laws here in the states so it's not like we are unfamiliar with loss of liberty [far from it], but it would be most disturbing to think that you Britts can't even carry a good quality pocket knives.

Zedicus
June 19, 2006, 05:10 PM
In the area I lived in this knife

http://www.excaliburcutlery.com/art/swissarmy/vi07vi07a.jpg

http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Product.htm?category=originalswissarmyknives&product=54191&

which only has a 2" (2 Inch) blade, if you were caught in posession of one by police in 2000-2005 you would have gotten an Instant 6 months in Prison.

didn't matter what size it was, you still got a minumum of 6 months in prison even thought the Law specificaly stated that you were allowed one with a blade of under 4".
it all stared with the 6 month sentance for a Locking Blade knife, then it just got more absurd from there.

BTW now that i'm back in the USA this is my All-around General use Knife atm.

http://www.thebladeshop.com/ProductImages/kershaw/KER1650ST.jpg
Kershaw Vapor II (Serrated) 3½" Locking Blade

Iain
June 19, 2006, 05:32 PM
Zedicus, where did you live?

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

A loose guide from a big UK knife website, note the following:

"The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives. But use your loaf - a knife has no place at a football match, in a pub, nightclub or school and becomes an offensive weapon in these circumstances in just the same way as a screwdriver, or any other innanimate tool."

Now I believe there may be a slight legal gray area with regard to locking folders, but your average non-locking Swiss Army knife is not going to get you 6 months in jail, unless I am severely misinformed.

Now speaking of being misinformed, although I was aware of restrictions on switch blades and the like (mirrored by many US states) I was not aware that there are supposedly restrictions on any knife deemed suitable for combat, at least the Knives Act (1997) is supposed to have done so according to that same link. But then again a quick perusal of their stock yields kukri's, bowie's, tanto's and so on.

rudolf
June 19, 2006, 06:08 PM
Whatsurprises me is that obviuosly nobody understood the core of this story. The brits are actually giving an amnesty to folks to hand in something THEY OWN LEGALLY. And they get 17,000 knives. And those folks could have kept them legally. Really makes me wonder how those british brains work. They should have an amnesty for handing over their TV sets next.

Zedicus
June 19, 2006, 06:25 PM
Zedicus, where did you live?

I won't go into specifics, but the area was within the Strathclyde District Police Jurisdiction.
(More like Gestapo than Police to be bluntly honest)

From 2000 on the "Minimum Sentence" for being in Possession of a Knife (any length) or any other item deemed by the PC as an "Offensive Weapon" (which was 100% up to the Arresting PC's "Interpretation") was 6 months in prison.

In 2004 One poor SOB actually got 6 months after being arrested in a "Random Street Corner search" for being in possession of a "Belt" which he was wearing at the time. (I Kid you not, in fact I still have the newspaper article of that one packed away someplace)

Found a Scan of that Article that I had on CD, here it is

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4964/fubaruk2mr.jpg

leadcounsel
June 19, 2006, 07:03 PM
The amnesty is entirely optional. You can own what you like, it can be 8 foot long and serrated, you just can't carry it on the streets. Now there might be an issue there, but it seems to me (and I expect future posters to carry on in this vein because they don't read the whole thread) that people are somehow equating amnesty with ban. And that isn't correct.

Why an "amnesty" for something that's not illegal?

These types of events are prelude to things such as registrations, bans, etc.

Next I bet they'll start requiring serial numbers on knives! HA!

Zedicus
June 19, 2006, 07:58 PM
Appropriate comment rendered unnecessary by Art's Grammaw's earlier deletion. :D

dmftoy1
June 19, 2006, 08:23 PM
I spend quite alot of time in England because of my job and I have to say that 75-80% of the Brits I work with aren't scared of guns and actually enjoy shooting. When they come over here it's not at all uncommon for them to visit the local shooting ranges and rent guns for target practice. It's just my opinion, but I think that all of the gun and knife hysteria is driven by a very small vocal minority. The biggest problem is that (IMHO) the average Brit doesn't like to be confrontational and so these small minority never get told how stupid they really are . . . . . I've never understood why this is so, because I've been in many a debate in many a pub and I have to say that I think I've lost almost every single one. :)

It's kind of like politicaly correctness taken to an extreme over there. The thing that really blows your mind is that sexual harassment is almost none existent. You wouldn't believe some of the things that my female co-workers have said to me.

Have a good one,
Dave

Art Eatman
June 19, 2006, 09:51 PM
enuf...

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