Buy gun at out of state gunshow?


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Headless
June 16, 2006, 05:55 PM
Hi all; i've got a question that i'm not sure where to look for the answer.
I've got a hankering to go pick up a new gun as i got a bonus at work this week...thinking about a 17hmr :) I checked to see gun shows in my area and don't have any in FLA until next month...but i noticed that there's one in Thomasville, GA this weekend which is only 20mins from my work (tallahassee is very very north florida). Does anyone know if there would be a problem with my going to purchase a new handgun from a show in georgia though i am not a resident?
Thanks

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dmallind
June 16, 2006, 06:11 PM
Well depends how you define problem.......

It is illegal unless you have them ship it to a FFL in your state for pickup.

But depending on the nature of the seller they may or may not verify your residency.

So depends on wheteher you think breaking a law is a problem or not. Personally I would think so but hey, YMMV.

IANAL BTW, but unless I'm much mistaken the "gun show loophole" refers only to the non-mandatory nature of a NICS check from a private party sale, not the non-mandatory nature of intrastate sales.

geekWithA.45
June 16, 2006, 06:19 PM
edit: WHOOPS! dmallind is ENTIRELY correct...just noticed you were talking about HANDguns.



You may not purchase a long gun from anyone other than an FFL out of state.

You may not purchase a hand gun from anyone out of state.

You may purchase a long gun _from_an_FFL_ from out of state, if the transaction is in compliance with that state's laws, the laws of your state of residency, and federal law.

{You'll have to check FL and GA on that...}

You can do this @ the FFL's place of biz, which might happen to be at a gunshow on any given weekend.

You can take it with you, without needed to xfer it to an instate FFL.


Did this a couple of times myself, no big deal.

Headless
June 16, 2006, 06:48 PM
I'd certainly consider it being illegal a BIG problem :-P. So as long as the seller has an FFL, i can purchase a long gun at the show and take it with me... but even if they have an FFL i cannot purchase a handgun there without residency unless they ship it to my in-state FFL. Could you elaborate on the 'gun show loophole' you're referring to, dmallind? I've actually never purchased a gun at a show an am largely unfamiliar; all of my weapons have been gifts or privately purchased.
Thanks for this information guys.

dmallind
June 16, 2006, 07:42 PM
No prob - I was being a bit tongue in cheek there - doesn't come across well in pixels!

The gun show loophole is a term often used (primarily by gun control advocates, although in this case the language is at least legally speaking accurate) to describe the ability to purchase a handgun without a NICS check from a private party at gunshows (of course it applies to buying from THR classifieds etc too).

Let's say I'm a felon - obviously not BTW - and I try to buy a gun at a gun store. NICS check comes back and nope sorry pal no gun for you. I then go to a gun show and try to buy same gun. No NICS check = "thanks and here's your gun" - a loophole that allows anyone to buy a gun who legally cannot.

I make no statement either way on Constitutionality, advisability, efficacy or convenience of said law and loophole - it is what it is.

Thefabulousfink
June 16, 2006, 08:49 PM
I am going to add just a little bit of stumping for why I think closing the "gunshow loophole" is bad.

You probably read dmallind's description (which is accurate) and say "heck, we need to stop criminals from buying guns." This is a noble cause, but here is where it gets sticky. The loophole is basicly a face to face sale of private property between two individuals. It is no different (legally) than if your neighbor walked over to your house and you sold him one of your guns (or a lawnmower). If you require all private sales of firearms to have a NCIS check then you would have to go to a third party and probably pay a fee just to sell your property.

This "solution" would solve some problems, but not others like "straw purchases" which are allready illegal. It is also an invasion of privacy that some gunowner (myself) take offense at.

Headless
June 16, 2006, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the clarification; i knew about this but hadnt heard it referred to as 'the gunshow loophole'. I do understand entirely that it's a different story when a private party sells to another private party. It's interesting that someone at a gun show could sell a gun as a private party when they are obviously a vendor at said show. Is it just that Vendors at gun shows are not subject to the same laws as a brick and mortar store selling guns?

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2006, 08:59 PM
Using the made-up term "gunshow loophole" plays into the hands of the anti-gun folks.

There is no such thing as a gunshow loophole. If you want to call it something, call it following the law.

The same laws that apply to gun shows also apply to gun stores, classified ads, internet sales, etc. The vendors at gun shows must follow the same laws as everyone else.

There are two types of vendors at gun shows:

The first type of vendor is an FFL holder, which means he is licensed by the federal government to engage in the business of firearms sales. He must follow all the rules that would apply to brick and mortar gun stores, with no exceptions. NICS checks, form 4473, the whole works applies.

The second type is the private seller. This may be an individual, like you or me, trying to sell one gun, or their entire collection. If a private seller has a lot of guns to sell he will often rent a table to display what he has. If he just has one or two guns, he may just walk around the show with a sign, or simply displaying the guns. He sells just like any other private citizen would sell a gun. He doesn't have to fill out forms, do background checks, etc, because he is not a licensed dealer. He is just trying to sell private property, and is not engaged in the business of firearms sales for a living. Therefore, he does not need a license.

The antis use the term gun show loophole to refer to private sales of firearms from one individual to another, without an FFL intermediary. This is completely legal in many states, including Georgia and Florida. There are a few caveats already mentioned, such as the buyer and seller must be residents of the same state, and the buyer can't be a convicted felon or other person forbidden from buying firearms.

By the way, who is putting on a gun show in Thomasville, and where in Thomasville will it be at?

Headless
June 16, 2006, 09:05 PM
From
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/georgia_gun_shows.htm

"Jun 17-18 Thomasville, Fair Grounds, Georgia Events Gun & Knife"

I think I understand; an FFL holder must run the checks but a private non FFL holder is not required to do so when selling to another private individual?

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2006, 11:08 PM
In a nutshell, that is correct.

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