Guns and college


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Tarwater
June 17, 2006, 01:45 AM
I'm now the proud owner of a Taurus 24/7 .45acp (thanks for all the suggestions on my previous thread). Problem, though, is that I'm transferring to the University of West Georgia this fall and I'm going to be living on campus. Am I going to have to leave it home? I much doubt they'd let me have it in my dorm room, but what about the glove box of my car? I'd like to be able to have some range time while I'm away at school, as well as have the thing around, you know, in case the mutant communist zombie bears attack while I'm on campus. Any help/information would be greatly appreciated.

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SomeKid
June 17, 2006, 01:58 AM
www.packing.org and http://www.handgunlaw.us/ are your friends.

John G
June 17, 2006, 02:13 AM
Check with campus police, they may require on-campus residents to store firearms in thier office. Or you could lock them up with a friend who lives in off-campus housing. Get used to cleaning your guns at the range, or at a buddy's place.

Zen21Tao
June 17, 2006, 02:20 AM
Here at UF it is against the law for students have guns on campus, even in their dorm rooms (I am glad I live off campus). Students that do own guns and live on campus have basically two options, either store the gun at the house/apartment of a friend that lives off campus or store it with the University Police. The biggest hassle with the latter option is having to check the gun in and out every time you want to use it. This may be a hassle but it is still better than having to leave it with parents out of town. If I were you I would call your university's police dept/security department and ask them what their policy is about keeping firearms on campus.

AJAX22
June 17, 2006, 02:20 AM
I agree on asking the police, I had a shotgun in the dorms a few years ago, there was a rule about no ammunition, but no prohibition against firearms. Check with the officers, they should have all the info you need. But make really sure that you lock it up tight and do NOT show it to anyone. you never know who all has the key to your room, and guns is mighty temptin.

mljdeckard
June 17, 2006, 03:00 AM
We went through a battle here in Utah a couple of years ago, The University of Utah was refusing to honor permits issued by the state, even though they are a state institution. They argued that they have a degree of philosophical and intellectual discretion that gives them the right to follow camus policy rather than state law.

Our courts disagreed, and they were required to conform.

The funny part is, it only applied to students and faculty, NOT citizens who happened to be on campus for other business. They can hold campus policy over campus members, but not the public in general.

Dionysusigma
June 17, 2006, 06:41 AM
Make friends with someone who lives off-campus. You'd be surprised how easily a K-31, a Mosin-Nagant M44, a Mossberg 590, and a Turkish Mauser fit behind a TV stand. :scrutiny: ;)

Wiley
June 17, 2006, 08:03 AM
http://www.georgiapacking.org/law.php

READ THIS THOUROUGHLY!! And, read the referenced code sections.


Hey, Tarwater!

Welcome to THR. Hope to see you at Georgia Packing.

MedGrl
June 17, 2006, 08:46 AM
I have a similar problem. I have 2 shotguns and am working on getting my first handgun but I am a Resident Assistant in a dorm at my university so I can't have them in the dorm. A friend of mine keeps them at his apartment for me. Someone else suggested making friends with someone who lives off campus. I think that would probably be your best solution. Though failing all else you could try the trunk or glove box of your car.

atlctyslkr
June 17, 2006, 09:39 AM
I know it's illegal to have/carry a loaded firearm on a college campus here in Georgia but as far as storing it I don't know. I lived in the dorms at Georgia Tech many moons ago and I kept an old Colt Police Positive. I never showed it to anyone or told anyone about it. In the dorm rules I was given there was nothing about firearms in it.

Check the university policy and see if it is written somewhere that you can't have a firearm. Check your dorm agreement and see what it says. I remember mine was mostly about making noise and generally nusiances.

I know that every so often the room was sprayed for bugs and stuff but as far as I know no one ever looked through my stuff or stole anything. I kept mine in the pocket of an overcoat that I never wore.

I can't over emphasise not telling anyone if you decide to go this route.

mp510
June 17, 2006, 10:09 AM
WEAPONS
The use of any item as a weapon for the purpose of offense or defense, and the possession of knives, slingshots, numchucks, billy clubs, brass knuckles, crossbows, fire arms of any kind including but not limited to BB guns, pellet guns, dart guns, and any type of air gun or any device intended as a weapon is strictly prohibited.
http://www.westga.edu/~reslife/handbook/index.html


Weapons
State Law (OCGA 16.11.127.1) and University Policy prohibits possession of weapons on campus. All persons found in possession of a weapon as defined by state law are subject to arrest. Students are also subject to referral to Student Judiciary for violation of the Student Conduct Code. A student living in a residence hall who is found in possession of a weapon in violation of this policy is also subject to removal from the hall in addition to the sanctions noted above.

Under the law the following items are considered weapons and therefore may not be possessed on campus.

"Weapon" means and includes any pistol, revolver, or any weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, or any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, any other knife having a blade of two or more inches, straight-edge razor, razor blade, spring stick, metal knucks, blackjack, any bat, club, or other bludgeon-type weapon, or any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain, or any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, or any weapon of like kind, and any stun gun or taser as defined in subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-106. This paragraph excludes any of these instruments used for classroom work authorized by the teacher. (16-11-127.1.a.2)

The Campus is defined by the law to include the campus proper as well as property leased by or loaned to the University for campus functions. This includes but is not limited to off campus sites used by Athletics for sporting events or, and the University's use of the Carrollton Stadium for graduation. Vehicles used by the University to provide transportation for students and staff also fall under the authority of the law. (16-11-127.1.b)

The penalty for violation of this code is significant.

Any person who violates this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000.00, by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than ten years, or both. A juvenile who violates this subsection shall be subject to the provisions of Code Section 15-11-37. (16-11-127.1.b)


http://www.bf.westga.edu/Pubsafe/Crime/daw.asp

22-rimfire
June 17, 2006, 11:15 AM
That is a VERY restrictive University policy. The policy does not include "intent to go armed" but deals with the object specifically. It would include most pocket knives as well, even a large SAK. Sounds like a good reason to live off campus. Your choice.

atlctyslkr
June 17, 2006, 11:15 AM
Well, I guess I'm lucky I never got caught, Pretty stiff penalties. Maybe you could rent a safe deposit box at a local bank. Good luck to you.

DoubleTapDrew
June 17, 2006, 03:14 PM
Living off campus is a good route to go, however if it's your first year I'd recommend living in the dorms. I may or may not have had a handgun while I was living on campus back in college :evil:
Like others have said, don't tell anyone or show anyone if you go that route. A guy that lived on my floor had a Colt Anaconda in .44 mag that he liked to show off and tell others about. He was booted out of the University when the RA found out. Last I heard of him was that someone saw him hitchhiking his way South.

Zen21Tao
June 17, 2006, 07:03 PM
It could real risky trying to hide it in a dorm. If you don't go the route of storing at your UPD there is always the option of getting a lock box and bolting it to the inside of your car trunk. Here at UF it is illegal to even store a gun even in your vehicle so I can't say that I suggest in vehicle storage but it is always an option.

mp510
June 17, 2006, 11:12 PM
Zen21,
I sent an email over to their Public Safety Dept. (in charge of policing), to find out about the vehicle storage legality. I asked in a very technical and hypothetical manner, and hope to get a response next week. I'll post the reply:)

Tarwater
June 17, 2006, 11:14 PM
Dude, I can't believe you'd go out of your way like that to answer my question. I really appreciate the replies, I'm way too backwards to ask the cops myself :D

mp510
June 18, 2006, 11:43 AM
Dude, I can't believe you'd go out of your way like that to answer my question. I really appreciate the replies, I'm way too backwards to ask the cops myself It's nothing more than couple minutes of page loading and typing. :)

mp510
June 19, 2006, 10:58 AM
Good morning NAME REMOVED,

It is true that a person's vehicle is normally considered an extension of the home but this is not an absolute. The Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that though you have many of the same rights in your car as you do at home, these rights are not as protected as in your home - for example, a warrant less search by the police is more acceptable to the courts in a car than a private dwelling. In respect to the law you cited, schools (including Universities) by the nature of who attends and what they do, are considered special areas by the legislature and they have created laws in order to protect the students. An example is the weapons prohibition on campus though it does contain some exceptions. Hope this helps. Tom.
Thomas J. Mackel
Chief of Police
University of West Georgia
678-839-6255 (Office)
678-839-6258 (Fax)

This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return mail, delete this message, and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal or actionable at law.

I sent the following:
Dear Sir/ Mam,

I am aware that 16-11-127 forbids the posession or carrying of weapons on University Campuses. I am also aware that under many circumstances, Georgia law also considers one's vehicle to be an extension of one's place of residence, meaning that one has the same right to have a weapon (firearm) in one's vehicle one would have in their home. That said, would it be unlawful for an individual to have a handgun (weapon) in their vehicle while that vehicle is on campus property, provided that their place of legal residence is at a location other than the University campus?

I look forward to your e-mail response, and thank you for your time and effort.


Regards,

Hawkmoon
June 19, 2006, 01:10 PM
mp510 --

Well done, Sir! You blind-sided the campus cops. The chief's reply, translated as well as I can manage, seems to say in essence, "Good question. I don't know the answer. Thank you for writing. Have a nice day."

Ain't it awful when a university can't answer a simple question in plain English?

Zen21Tao
June 19, 2006, 01:43 PM
Wow, what an email response. Is it just me or did I miss the entire part where he actually answered your question? He seems to just be side stepping the issue implying it would be illegal without actually coming out and saying it is. It is also funny that he says there are exceptions to the "no guns on campus" law but doesn't elaberate on what these exceptions are.

Let me just tackle one of this Chief's responses

The Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that though you have many of the same rights in your car as you do at home, these rights are not as protected as in your home - for example, a warrant less search by the police is more acceptable to the courts in a car than a private dwelling.

This is completely wrong. One's vehicle has been upheld many times as being "an extention of one's home" in the regard that one's vehicle is 'just as' protected as one's home.

In regards to the warrentless searches, to conduct a warrentless search one needs either permission to search or probable cause. It is generally easier to get permission from someone to search a vehicle then to get a "sure come on in and search my house" response.

Also, there are far more traffic stops made where the officer looks in the vehicle's window than police officers responding to homes where a warrentless search may be an option. Based on the base rate numbers alone more warrentless vehicular searches are probable than warrentless home searches.

Also, it is much easier to get probable cause to conduct a search of a vehicle than a house. Generally odorous substances are easier to detect through an open car window of an occupied car than from a room near the back of someone's home. Also, probable cause is obtained by observing something illegal in plain sight. There is much more "plain sight" available when looking in the windows of a vehicle as opposed to a home that has its shades pulled.

Again, warrentless searches are easier to justify for a vehicle than they are for a home and are far more likely for a vehicle in comparison to a home. This doesn't make the car any less protected.

Personally I think if you had a handgun locked up in a bolted down lock box in your vehicle you would have a very good chance of beating a "no guns on campus" law. One could argue that if one lives on campus a "no guns are allowed on campus" law would completely elimanate your ability to keep and bare any firearm and would thus amount to a complete firearms ban that violates the 2nd Amendment. I would cite the recent overturning of the San Francisco "no guns in the city" ban.

Manedwolf
June 19, 2006, 02:01 PM
If you live in dorms and guns are allowed, go to Target and get the $79 Sentry "Dorm Safe" that comes with a cable that can be locked around a solid object. The reason you have it, if anyone asks, is to keep important papers or money safe.

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/049074007928_3.jpg

Whether they're allowed or not, if you just "hide" it in your room and a criminal steals it, dorms not being at all secure, it's still your fault for not securing it properly in an insecure enviroment. Roomies, roomies' friends, their friends, friends of friends, the RA, the cleaning staff, the maintainence people...too many people have access to a dorm room to just "hide" it.

Roadwild17
June 19, 2006, 02:13 PM
I've been in two universities and both stuck to the "You don’t tell, We wont ask" philosophy pretty well. When I called and asked about storing my shotgun my paraphrased response was, throw it in your truck, less paperwork for us.


Don’t forget, most dorms have locks that are 30 years old, I could get into to every room on my floor with a card, a screw driver, a paperclip, OR some doors a jerk towards the hinges. All except for mine and my RA's, after I showed him, maintenance came and changes his lock and I made them change my lock too.

cropcirclewalker
June 19, 2006, 02:28 PM
I could be wrong, but it seems to me like keeping your shootin' iron at a friends house could be considered a "transfer".

Some states like Missouri have laws about that. Here in MO we cannot lawfully transfer a concealable firearm to another unless the transferee provides the transferor a "Permit To Acquire" which must be purchased at the local sheriff store for a maximum of 10 bux and a background check.

YMMV

HankB
June 19, 2006, 05:53 PM
A few thoughts . . .

1. By asking the authorities and identifying yourself, you've put yourself on the radar. They may decide to keep an extra eye on you.

2. IMHO what the actual law says is important. Note that rules made by bureaucrats are not the same as laws.

3. I'd never advocate someone break a law in an open forum. But I've never been a sticker for abiding by mere rules myself. I'm aware of several cases in which a female college student chose to break the college's rules . . . in one instance, it was much to the dismay of a would-be rapist or purse snatcher who I understand may have set a new land speed record during his retreat. :cool:

Note that A wise man will be discrete if he chooses to break rules.

Roadwild17
June 19, 2006, 05:58 PM
Whatever you decide, you had better be behing it 110%. Getting caught could mean kick out of school, court cost, and even jail time.

GeorgiaGlocker
June 19, 2006, 07:25 PM
Tarwater see below. I copied and pasted this from the Georgia Code.


16-11-127.1.
(a) As used in this Code section, the term:
(1) 'School safety zone' means in, on, or within 1,000 feet of any real property owned by or leased to any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education and in, on, or within 1,000 feet of the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education.
(2) 'Weapon' means and includes any pistol, revolver, or any weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, or any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, any other knife having a blade of two or more inches, straight-edge razor, razor blade, spring stick, metal knucks, blackjack, any bat, club, or other bludgeon-type weapon, or any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain, or any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, or any weapon of like kind, and any stun gun or taser as defined in subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-106. This paragraph excludes any of these instruments used for classroom work authorized by the teacher.
(b) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (c) of this Code section, it shall be unlawful for any person to carry to or to possess or have under such persońs control while within a school safety zone or at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school any weapon or explosive compound, other than fireworks the possession of which is regulated by Chapter 10 of Title 25. Any person who violates this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000.00, by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than ten years, or both; provided, however, that upon conviction of a violation of this subsection involving a firearm as defined in paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-131, or a dangerous weapon or machine gun as defined in Code Section 16-11-121, such person shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000.00 or by imprisonment for a period of not less than five nor more than ten years, or both. A child who violates this subsection shall be subject to the provisions of Code Section 15-11-63.
(c) The provisions of this Code section shall not apply to:
(1) Baseball bats, hockey sticks, or other sports equipment possessed by competitors for legitimate athletic purposes;
(2) Participants in organized sport shooting events or firearm training courses;
(3) Persons participating in military training programs conducted by or on behalf of the armed forces of the United States or the Georgia Department of Defense;
(4) Persons participating in law enforcement training conducted by a police academy certified by the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council or by a law enforcement agency of the state or the United States or any political subdivision thereof;
(5) The following persons, when acting in the performance of their official duties or when en route to or from their official duties:
(A) A peace officer as defined by Code Section 35-8-2;
(B) A law enforcement officer of the United States government;
(C) A prosecuting attorney of this state or of the United States;
(D) An employee of the Georgia Department of Corrections or a correctional facility operated by a political subdivision of this state or the United States who is authorized by the head of such correctional agency or facility to carry a firearm;
(E) A person employed as a campus police officer or school security officer who is authorized to carry a weapon in accordance with Chapter 8 of Title 20; and
(F) Medical examiners, coroners, and their investigators who are employed by the state or any political subdivision thereof;
(6) A person who has been authorized in writing by a duly authorized official of the school to have in such persońs possession or use as part of any activity being conducted at a school building, school property, or school function a weapon which would otherwise be prohibited by this Code section. Such authorization shall specify the weapon or weapons which have been authorized and the time period during which the authorization is valid;
(7) A person who is licensed in accordance with Code Section 16-11-129 or issued a permit pursuant to Code Section 43-38-10, when such person carries or picks up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school or any weapon legally kept within a vehicle in transit through a designated school zone by any person other than a student;
(8) A weapon which is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle which is being used by an adult over 21 years of age to bring to or pick up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school, or when such vehicle is used to transport someone to an activity being conducted on school property which has been authorized by a duly authorized official of the school; provided, however, that this exception shall not apply to a student attending such school;
(9) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of the weapon is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation, and testing under the requirements of such contract;
(10) Those employees of the State Board of Pardons and Paroles when specifically designated and authorized in writing by the members of the State Board of Pardons and Paroles to carry a weapon;
(11) The Attorney General and those members of his or her staff whom he or she specifically authorizes in writing to carry a weapon;
(12) Probation supervisors employed by and under the authority of the Department of Corrections pursuant to Article 2 of Chapter 8 of Title 42, known as the 'State-wide Probation Act,' when specifically designated and authorized in writing by the director of the Division of Probation;
(13) Public safety directors of municipal corporations;
(14) State and federal trial and appellate judges;
(15) United States attorneys and assistant United States attorneys;
(16) Clerks of the superior courts; or
(17) Teachers and other school personnel who are otherwise authorized to possess or carry weapons, provided that any such weapon is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle.
(d)(1) This Code section shall not prohibit any person who resides or works in a business or is in the ordinary course transacting lawful business or any person who is a visitor of such resident located within a school safety zone from carrying, possessing, or having under such persońs control a weapon within a school safety zone; provided, however, it shall be unlawful for any such person to carry, possess, or have under such persońs control while at a school building or school function or on school property, a school bus, or other transportation furnished by the school any weapon or explosive compound, other than fireworks the possession of which is regulated by Chapter 10 of Title 25.
(2) Any person who violates this subsection shall be subject to the penalties specified in subsection (b) of this Code section.
(3) This subsection shall not be construed to waive or alter any legal requirement for possession of weapons or firearms otherwise required by law.
(e) It shall be no defense to a prosecution for a violation of this Code section that:
(1) School was or was not in session at the time of the offense;
(2) The real property was being used for other purposes besides school purposes at the time of the offense; or
(3) The offense took place on a school vehicle.
(f) In a prosecution under this Code section, a map produced or reproduced by any municipal or county agency or department for the purpose of depicting the location and boundaries of the area on or within 1,000 feet of the real property of a school board or a private or public elementary or secondary school that is used for school purposes or within 1,000 feet of any campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education, or a true copy of the map, shall, if certified as a true copy by the custodian of the record, be admissible and shall constitute prima-facie evidence of the location and boundaries of the area, if the governing body of the municipality or county has approved the map as an official record of the location and boundaries of the area. A map approved under this Code section may be revised from time to time by the governing body of the municipality or county. The original of every map approved or revised under this subsection or a true copy of such original map shall be filed with the municipality or county and shall be maintained as an official record of the municipality or county. This subsection shall not preclude the prosecution from introducing or relying upon any other evidence or testimony to establish any element of this offense. This subsection shall not preclude the use or admissibility of a map or diagram other than the one which has been approved by the municipality or county.
(g) A county school board may adopt regulations requiring the posting of signs designating the areas within 1,000 feet of school boards and private or public elementary and secondary schools as 'Weapon-free and Violence-free School Safety Zones.'

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