[Lone_Gunman]

Looking at many of the gun auction/sales sites, and various Garand/Carbine collector sites, it seems that M1 Carbine prices are more (and sometimes much more) than Garand prices.

Why is that? Are there just many more garands out there, or is the CMP's cheap garands holding prices down?

[Cosmoline]

Garands are way overpriced, so I'm not sure how CMP could be "killing" them. Even beaters go for over five bills around here.

[dogngun]

Cosmoline: My local "paramilitary" gun dealer tries his best to talk people out of buying CMP guns...because he sells them for at least twice what the CMP does. He has not had a Garand for less than $600 for several years-most go for $700 and up depending on manufacturer and condition.
He also has been known to "add" a few stamped initials, etc to make his stuff more "collectable".
Prices have doubled in my area in the last 10 years.
Mark

[1911JMB]

Less than a decade ago I remember adds for good condition surplus Garands selling for 300 or 400 bucks. I say whatever, because I never did care for Garands.

[smince]

Carbine prices have jumped tremendously in the last decade.

Even the generally so-so Universal and National Ordnance copies.

[Rembrandt]

Back when I was a kid......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Oldmagazineads.jpg

[critter]

I got a DCM (before it was CMP) Garand for a grand total-MAILED to me via USPO for $165! Shows you how OLD I am!

[Ohen Cepel]

I don't think they're messing up the pricing. A lot of people don't know about them and when you try to tell them they just glaze over. Even the ones that listen often decide it's not worth the hoops to go through to get one. Therefore, they pay the asking street price.

I swear that Band of Brothers is what blew the carbines out of the world! Not sure, and I can't prove it, but since that movie came out they really seem to have gotten high.

[Jim Watson]

Just economics in action, guys.
I think the CMP allowing multiple repeat sales is responsible for a lot of the markup. People read up on M1s and buy and buy trying to get an original, correct, or unusual gun that they can get rich on. Or get into parts swapping and upgrading for that purpose.
But it is mostly economics. The good ones have been sold out, the dregs remain, but the demand is still there so prices climb. I was at the South Store yesterday and those Greek turnins are well worn.

I just wonder, Rembrandt, Ohen; what were you making the year a M1 could be bought for $85 or even $165? How many hours work for an M1 then and now.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

All I know is I bought one of the Danish M1 service grade returns for $400 just a few years ago. Looking at CMP lately, even the Greek service grades (which don't appear to be in as good condition) are going for $550.

If M1s keep appreciating at that rate I might have to lose the 401k and start buying them by the pallet.

[alamo]

Availability of quality relatively affordable M1 Garands from the CMP absolutely holds down prices.

Look at prices for Garands at gunshows and elsewhere, they are much higher than CMP prices even allowing for a decent profit. Of course, many dealers get their Garands from the CMP. The CMP recently increased the annual sales limit from 8 to 12 per year in order so dealers could order more which will help the CMP get rid of them more quickly. The CMP doesn't acknowledge selling to dealers but it is certainly winked at.

[Wes Janson]

Looking at the CMP website, they don't seem to have many options remaining: mainly just SAs. Lots of "Sold Out" listings on their rifles.

[Cueball]

Ok, I realize people are going to laugh at me, but I have to ask this question...

What's the difference between an M1 Garand and a M1 Carbine ? :confused:

Which is the more desireable, and why?

[alamo]

The M1 Garand is a full-sized battle rifle which uses an top loading en bloc clip. The M1 Carbine is much smaller and uses a bottom loading box magazine. The carbine was originally intended to replace pistols for rear echelon troops to give them something more substantial than the pistols they were issued. The carbine round is not as powerful as the 30.06 M1 round. Maybe someone can post some side-by-side pictures. Substantial size difference.

Neither is necessarily more desirable than the other - they're just different. There is no source like the CMP for M1 Carbines so they are much rarer these days and quite a few more Garands were made than the M1 Carbine so those in good condition command very high prices.

[Gewehr98]

I got a DCM (before it was CMP) Garand for a grand total-MAILED to me via USPO for $165! Shows you how OLD I am!

I bought my M1 Garand through the DCM in 1992 for that very same $165.00.

Two years ago, I bought another M1 Garand from a buddy who purchased his at the same time I got mine, still in the DCM box, he never shot it, and asked if I wanted it. His price? $165.00.

Cosmo, CMP Garands aren't what's overpriced. It's the guys who buy a CMP Garand, put a "NM" stamp all over it, then add a $1,200.00 or greater price tag who are overpricing things. I've caught several "entepreneurs" doing that at gun shows on both the east and west coast. Never mind the fact that one isn't supposed to be buying them for the express purpose of resale. :fire:

[armedandsafe]

I bought my first 03A3 for $24 delivered. Mowed a lot of lawns, repaired a lot of bicycles, poured a lot of hot lead for that gun. Sure would like to run across the guy who stole it.

Pops

[MechAg94]

I don't even look at Garands at Gun shows anymore. They are all $650 and up. Most just look like CMP guns that have been cleaned up. Same with many of the 1903 rifles I see.

I like the investment idea, but I don't think I could afford to by 12 M1's. Also, most of those overpriced Garands I see don't get sold.

[Selfdfenz]

I put off getting one of the Danish rifles till it was too late. Then the Greek units arrived. Some of the initial reports made me take a wait-and-see attitude. Now it seems a verified fact the prices are higher for less quality than the Danish units. As a counter point, however, I have seen many posts on the I-net from buyers who acquired one the Greek units and were very happy. It makes it hard to decide.

While I like the idea of having an M1 I just can't justify the price for what CMP has in inventory these days based on the description on their website. Especially so given that it shoots less-than-expensive 30-06. While you might have some options to shoot less expensively if you got a rack grade specimen and switched barrels to 308 you have significant $$$ in the unit at that point and what little historical accuracy it may have had would be toast. I'm thinking might get 3-4 inch groups at 100 yds if you're lucky. If CMP lowered the price I might be interested but there are just too many other places I can find to spend those shooting dollars.

I hear it said the supply of M1s is drying up. That makes sense to me. The end of an era so to speak. Perhaps what we are seeing is the transition of the M1 into the strict catagory of collectors item and prices going in that direction regardless of whether the unit came from Anniston or a gundshow.

Since I'm a shooter and not a collector the same is true of the 03s. Just too expensive for what it represents to me as a desirable platform.

S-

[bromdenlong]

alamo wrote:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
There is no source like the CMP for M1 Carbines so they are much rarer these days and quite a few more Garands were made than the M1 Carbine so those in good condition command very high prices.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



I might be wrong, but I believe that about 6 million carbines were made, as opposed to about 3.5 million Garands. Or was it 4.5 million Garands? In any event, I think more carbines were made, but I'm guessing more Garands were used in combat.

[byf43]

Quote:
I got a DCM (before it was CMP) Garand for a grand total-MAILED to me via USPO for $165! Shows you how OLD I am!


I bought my M1 Garand through the DCM in 1992 for that very same $165.00.

Two years ago, I bought another M1 Garand from a buddy who purchased his at the same time I got mine, still in the DCM box, he never shot it, and asked if I wanted it. His price? $165.00.


Wow!!! You guys are making me feel old.
I put my papers in with the DCM, back in February, 1984. The price was $94.00 delivered to the door, at that price. The waiting period was running about 2 years at the time and the rifles had been coming out of Rock Island Armory.
Two days before my papers were approved, the price jumped to $165.00 That was in early, 1985. (Thanks Congress!)
Rifle shipments had moved to Anniston Depot shortly before then, if memory serves me, and Congress had set limits of M1 sales of 600 per year.
There was such a back-log of paperwork and sales that there was a one-time approval to increase the yearly allotment of rifles to clear the back-log.
I got my rifle a few days shy of 1 year after applying for it.

Ah. . . . those were the days.

Thanks for letting me 'geeze' a little.

[alamo]

I might be wrong, but I believe that about 6 million carbines were made, as opposed to about 3.5 million Garands. Or was it 4.5 million Garands? In any event, I think more carbines were made, but I'm guessing more Garands were used in combat.

Looks like nearly 5.5 million Garands were made. I was wrong about the Carbine according to this - I had figured fewer were made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Carbine

http://www.jouster.com/serial/assigned.html

[Mac Attack]

Buy a Garand, Carbine or 1903 because you want to shoot it. Like others have said, the rifles left in inventory are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the whole M1 production.

I like the CMP and have purchased several rifles from them and plan to go the the South store early next month to add a 1903 to my herd.

[HankB]

. . . the rifles left in inventory are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the whole M1 production. Not totally true . . . $1400 will still get you a nice collector grade rifle. And the CMP auctioned off a couple of NIW M1s within the past year. IIRC they went for somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k, and are destined to become "safe queens" . . . which is kind of sad in a way, as IMHO rifles ought to be shot.

Of course most of us won't pay that much . . .

What has happened is that more people are getting rifles in condition that meets - rather than exceeds - the CMP's written criteria.

Two years ago I got a USGI Service Grade M1, late 1955 vintage, still wearing the original barrel, which gages TE 2, ME 1, and a DAS-cartouched stock that only had enough dings to add character. Function is perfect. It's a "mixmaster" in that it has an HRA trigger group, but I'm very satisfied with it . . . and it looks a lot better than the junk I've seen at gun shows. (Rack grade rifles marked up $300 higher than CMP Service Grade rifles are typical.)

If you order a "service grade" rifle, you're going to get a rifle that HAS seen use, but it will almost certainly be reliable and reasonably accurate - as long as you don't have expectations of getting a pristine collector's item, it ought to bring you many, many, years of fun at the range.

(As for prices . . . I remember M1s being advertised by places like Hunter's Lodge and Klein's in pre-68 gun rags . . . I was just a kid back then, but if you factor in three decade's worth of inflation . . . these are the good old days.)

[Mac Attack]

True, they do on occasion acquire excellent condition rifles like the ones you referred too. But for most of us those are far beyond what we would consider a reasonable price to pay.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate everything the CMP is doing and where else could you purchase a M1 for they sell them for. I picked up a rack grade M1 and a Service Grade last year. The rack grade was a muched used and worn out rifile that I am considering having built into a Tanker while the Service grade was a great condition rifle.

IMHO, the thing is that a lot of people do not want to go through all the hassle (not really a hassle to those of us who know) to purchase a rifle through the CMP. Some would just prefer to buy one that has already been cleaned of cosmoline and gunk at a local gun show or a new Springfield from a gun store. That's fine by me because it just means more for those of us in the know. :)

[Kramer Krazy]

I still kick myself for not buying a couple of the imported Garands in '93-'94 when they were $219 each. I did pick up a couple of the M1 Carbines when they were $139, though. :D

[MechAg94]

I still need to pick up a rack grade for future rebuild to like new. That may have to wait on other priorities. I doubt they will run out of rack grade for a while.

[Gordon Fink]

For shooters, you can also pick up bare receivers for as little as $150. Build them into completed rifles at your convenience. :D

~G. Fink

[MudPuppy]

Anyone hear the rumor about Korean stocks of M1 Garands and M1 Carbines being sold off?

Can't remember where I heard that (about 2-3 months back), but I'd love to see some aimsurplus M1 carbines for $99!!
(hey, i can dream!)

[johnrobe]

I was at a gunshow in Nashville this weekend. Of the Springfield M1's, Rack and Field Grades were going for $600-$650. There was one that would rate as a Service Grade priced at $750. (I took my gauges). There were a couple of IHCs, one priced at $850 and another for $1000. They looked nice but I wasn't interested enough to see how "correct" they were. Near the end of the last day, not a one of 'em had sold.