[Candiru]

I don't currently have any guns that would be my first choice of a handgun to carry while out hiking in the woods. Although I'm saving up for a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 Mag, all I have at the moment are 9mm and .45 ACP semi-autos. Given that either of these calibers will do fine against the dominant likelihood of attack by humans (.45 ACP will do better than 9mm if FMJ is used for both, though), which is the best choice for defense against hairy things with sharp teeth and claws? Here in Washington state, we have cougars, black bears, and the occasional brown bear.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward carrying my 1911 with ball ammo, but I'm not sure if this will penetrate deeply enough in large predators to even give me a chance; I'm sure 9mm ball ammo will fill that particular bill, but the bullet's diameter and weight are not as impressive as .45 ACP.

Does anyone have any insight or thoughts they could offer on my dilemma?

[huntershooter]

Forced to choose between 9mm & .45 acp for use against (Black) bear attack my choice would be .45 acp with 230 gr. ball or jacketed flat point loaded to +P velocities. This would be a "handloading" proposition.

[1911Tuner]

Depends on the area and how large the next critter on the food chain is.

For mountain areas, I carry a M-58 (.41 magnum) Smith stoked with heavy hard-cast SWC handloads(215-220 grain)...usually with a likely too-healthy dose of 2400 that I wouldn't use for typical range work. A Colt LW Commander may or may not back it up...but pretty likely that it would.
Also like to have a lever-action Winchester 30-30 or a .308 bolt-action carbine somewhere close by if it can be arranged....such as in a campsite...but kept well-hidden unless and until needed. Heavy, blunt bullets for the .308...typically in the 180-grain category. No need to worry with velocity and trajectory for a short-range defense shot when you need penetration and performance on heavy bone.

Been seriously thinkin' about havin' an iron or aperture sighted 20-inch Ruger 77 carbine built around the .358 Winchester round. Short-action, handy, and light. A .35 caliber 225-250 grain bullet at 2200-2300 fps will do what needs to be done on all but the biggest browns.

[Lou629]

I have always been in the 9mm camp for any HD/SD situation that i might encounter normally. However, if i were going hiking into bear country, i'd leave the 9 home and take my .357 mag. If you have both 9 & .45 available, i'd take the .45 if it were me.

[P99waltherP99]

I just spent 11 months in alaska. Take nothing lower than .44 magnum! I am sure your 9mm in ball can handle cougars but they cant handle bear. Take either .44 magnum or .500 bring spare ammo and stay alert at all times.

[jibjab]

Buffalo Bore's 9mm +p+ 147gr w/Speer uni-core might work, thoe testing this ammo for reliability in your gun would be expensive.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#9mm
They're .45 230gr fmj would be the other option.

[Ala Dan]

my 6" Smith N' Wesson 686-5 would get the nod~!:D

[nitesite]

my 6" Smith N' Wesson 686-5 would get the nod~!

Nice choice, Dan! Perhaps some Winchester 180-gr Partition Golds or a Federal 158-gr JSP?

What carry method, if you don't mind my asking?

Again, I cannot fault your decision for our part of the USA.

dave

[cookekdjr]

Candiru,

I'd check Buffalo Bore and other "custom" ammo makers to see what type of hard cast ammo they make for both calibers. All things being equal, I'd favor the .45 ACP. You'll want to make sure the ammo will reliably cycle in your gun.
If your 9mm pistol will withstand +p+ ammo, I'd also take a look at the Hirtenberger L7A1 ammo. Its made for submachine guns but is safe to use in the more robust handguns like H&K, CZ's, and Glocks. This ammo sends a 124gr fmj round about 1,400 fps. I would think it would be a good choice if there are no good hard-cast loads for your 1911.
Good luck,

David

[mljdeckard]

I read an article in one of the magazines some time ago about a man who runs dogs and hunts cougers. The only gun he carries is a Kimber 1911. I suppose when they are treed, it doesn't take much to finish them.

BUT, I was also thinking to myself, if I were on a trail, and a cougar charged me, and I pulled my .45, as it was coming, the last thing I would think is: "I really hope that 230 grains is enough to stop a 200lb cat which is the strongest in the world for its weight."

Unless you are carrying a monster revolver or .50 AE, something of that nature, I think the most important factor is bullet placement. If you panic and hit a flank, it doesn't matter what bullet you are using.

[wqbang]

I think either will be fine. Honestly, you need to worry far more about running into people cooking meth than a black bear or a cougar. At least here in Washington State. I look at it this way, when in the woods 2 legged threats are far more prevalent than 4 legged ones.

Given that, one could argue that 44 mag would probably cover the whole range of threats, man or beast. In the meantime carry what you got. I don't feel undergunned with a 9mm,.357 or .45 when hiking or camping in WA.

[Freddymac]

I routinely carry my USP 45 with Remi 185+p’s. I know that it is not as effective as either my 44 or 357, but when I hike in areas where there are a lot of people, its easier and more comfortable for me to conceal than either of my wheel guns.

[Dr.Rob]

Which one weighs less?

That's my big concern when backpacking.

I packed a Colt Commander Lightweight as a 'hiking' gun for a long time. I loaded it with whatever I had available at the time.

Look into a Wilderness products "Safepacker"... the holster that doesn't look like a holster.

[gopguy]

we have cougars, black bears, and the occasional brown bear.

Saying this alone tells me you should carry a .44 magnum. Though if you are truly wanting a semi auto then you might consider a 10mm with full power loads. At least with a Glock 20 you have 15 rounds and with a couple spare magazines and well placed shots you can do a lot of damage to a determined bear. Just remember shot placement will be key to surviving the encounter.

['Card]

I open-carry a .45ACP semi-auto in a drop-leg thigh rig when I'm hiking, fishing, camping, kayaking or bowhunting (but check local laws first on that last one). Nothing nastier than black bears in my preferred outdoor regions, so any realistic threat assesment would have to conclude that two-legged critters are my biggest worry.

The way I see it, the .45 is probably slightly more than I need for people, and slightly less than I need for bears, but it's durable, relatively light, reliable, and the handgun I'm most accurate with, so it's a good balance and gets the nod.

[yhtomit]

"I open-carry a .45ACP semi-auto in a drop-leg thigh rig when I'm hiking, fishing, camping, kayaking or bowhunting (but check local laws first on that last one). Nothing nastier than black bears in my preferred outdoor regions, so any realistic threat assesment would have to conclude that two-legged critters are my biggest worry."

Is that legal in NC, or just what you think makes more sense? (Live being more important than legal, but legal being more convenient generally.)

timothy

['Card]

Assuming you're talking about the fishing, hiking, camping and kayaking part... NC's laws are a little vague on the whole "open carry" thing. I'd encourage you to read up on the details yourself because I don't remember the specific language, but the gist of it is that you can get in trouble if you're "menacing the public", or words to that effect. I've always figured that since there ain't no public around (that's kind of the whole point of hiking, camping or kayaking for me) it'd be tough for me to menace them. Of course, different state and national parks have their own rules, but I haven't spent any time in those (In NC, anyway) so I've never bothered to look them up.

The short answer being: I don't think it's a problem, but I've never especially worried about it, either. So you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Now on the bowhunting end of things, it can get complicated, because NC has the most hideous set of hunting regulations I've ever dealt with. Each county pretty much makes up their own rules (no, I'm not kidding) so just by crossing a county line you can go from 'perfectly legal' to 'equivalent-to-a-serial-killer'. Sometimes just crossing a river within the same county can put you into an entirely different set of hunting regulations.

My solution? It's so aggravating that I simply don't hunt in North Carolina at all - so I'm completely unqualified to answer your question. I go back home to WV to do my hunting, where the culture is a lot less uptight about this whole gun thing.

[Frandy]

I don't remember the specific language, but the gist of it is that you can get in trouble if you're "menacing the public", or words to that effect. I've always figured that since there ain't no public around (that's kind of the whole point of hiking, camping or kayaking for me) it'd be tough for me to menace them.

That "menacing" part is pretty subjective. All it takes is a call to the law stating that "I'm scared, I'm willied, I'm a fearin' fer my life" and your open carry gives you an orange jumpsuit. I agree that being out in the woodsies makes this highly unlikely, unless you know someone is out to get you, follows you, and makes that dreaded phone call. :D

[KINGMAX]

I prefer the old .45 acp. Thinking about loading magazines w/ ball and hollow point. I like to carry a mix of 230 GR Jacketed Hollow Points & 230 GR Ball. When I feel it's a special occasion I will load a Mag w/ Hollow Point Silver Tips. :cool:

I would like to have one of those Camp Pistol that holds .45 and .410. Do a load of .410 in # 1 buck shot. :evil:

['Card]

Ooops. I was wrong on the terminology. It's not "menacing". Turns out there is a common-law offense in NC called "Going Armed to the Terror of the People" - which sounds to me like a fun way to spend a weekend, but apparently means that if someone calls to complain about you carrying a gun and claims you're terrorizing them, then you could get arrested.

*shrug*

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's nitesite Dave My Friend-

Carry method~? Just an old Bianchi belt slide, tan leather field holster.

Mainly, this gun is used too win bets on long range shots of 50 yards
or more (:D Laughing Loudly:D ), or to compete in postal pistol matches.:cool:

[another okie]

I'm not vouching for it against bears, but you can change a spring or two in any well-made 1911 and shoot .45 super, which gives ballistics about like a hot .44 special or .45 Colt, towards the very bottom end of .44 Magnum loads.

[MCgunner]

Between the two, the .45 with a SWC of 200 grains or more pushed to +P levels will be better'n throwin' rocks, a lot better. However, I'd prefer either one of my .357s or my .45 colt Blackhawk pushing a 300 grain bullet to something under 1200 fps. My blackhawk is about 40 ounces, no worse to carry than a mountain gun. And, boy, that thing is accurate!

[bigsarg99]

Alot of good points have been made already so I wont rehash them but my vote would be for the .45 loaded up hot with some good ammo. I carry hornady tap. A wheel gun would be the best but you have to use what you have and i think if it were me I would have peace of mind know my .45 is close by. There is a reason 9mm mags hold so many! (ok that wasnt fair I am pro .45) Being in the military I have learned that the most inportant thing is training and its how you use what you have ( 9mm or .45) that will make the big difference, if called upon. Good luck!

[yongxingfreesty]

I would love to live in places where I can carry for a purpose while hiking.


I like the 9mm +9 HP. I think it will do the job for any occasion.

[MCgunner]

I would love to live in places where I can carry for a purpose while hiking.


I like the 9mm +9 HP. I think it will do the job for any occasion.

Go north to Conroe/Montgomery. The Sam Houston National Forest is free for the hiking. ;) You don't need bear defense there, hasn't been a black bear in eastern Texas in probably a hundred years. So, your 9mm is fine since the most you'll come across is 2 legged preditors. I carry +P 9 or +P .38 special routinely, myself, as a CCW. When I'm out hiking in a Texas woods, I'll usually have a .38 revolver on my hip. I like revolvers. But, if I'm out in the New Mexican mountains, I'll usually have a .357 magnum on my hip. It's good for bears, cats, and the more likely attacker, humans.

[Sir Aardvark]

Well... you did mention bear.

So... since a .44Mag is not in the offering, and your choices are between a .45ACP and a 9mm, you might want to better your odds and try the old "safety in numbers" trick - invite along a few friends and just make sure that you can run faster than the slowest one in the group.

[Nail Shooter]

gopguy
Senior Member

...."Though if you are truly wanting a semi auto then you might consider a 10mm with full power loads. At least with a Glock 20 you have 15 rounds and with a couple spare magazines".....


I think this gun would do pretty well in a variety of self defense situations--whether against 2 or 4 legs. I'd probably alternate 180gr flat point jacketed and hollow points in the mag. Full power loads in 10mm are deep penetrators.

NS

[harley]

Candiru: Consider the .460 Rowland conversion ($275.00) from Clarke Custom Guns and read the article on real guns.com. I have one on a Kimber 1911. It’s one of my favorite guns. Everyone should have one. Accurate. Completely reliable. Not for the faint of heart. It’s like 11 rounds of .44 Mag, only better, with a quick reload. The muzzle blast from the first shot should discourage any omnivores or carnivores that come your way. You don’t even have to hit anything, just be close. And, remember to bring something to use as a tourniquet in case you do have to reload.

harley