Unusual 9mm ammo-any experience?

[The_Antibubba]

I went to the Miwall Sale today in Grass Valley. It warms my heart so to see ammo stacked to the ceiling. :D Among the new and reloads were a few oddities.

The one I bought is 9mm luger from Hansen Cartridge Company, which uses "Old West" style lettering-but is definitely not Cowboy action-It's Israeli-made with IMI brass. It is FMJ, subsonic, and 158 grains! The nose is tipped UN-blue.

It sounds like a winner-a slow, heavy, and reliably-feeding round, perfect for defense. I want to hear from anyone who has used it. I also want to know if you would advise a heavier spring; I have a Walther P1.

[Kurt S.]

I bought 2 boxes of a very similar load about 7-8 years ago- Samson 158 grain, also made by IMI and even blue-tipped like yours. I shot one box in the Ruger P89 and loved it- I have put the other box in my SHTF stash. Good thing, because I have never seen the stuff again.

I don't think I shoot in my FEG Hi-Power clone, however. YMMV

[The_Antibubba]

I shot one box in the Ruger P89 and loved it-

Loved it how? How is the aim, recoil, etc?

[evan price]

That Israeli stuff you might want to watch because it might be loaded to SMG levels...real hot for most pistols.

[otomik]

The Jerries in WWII developed similar subsonic 9mm Para with unusually heavy bullets, I don't think there's an issue given it's a P1. I recently picked up some Sellier and Belloit 140gr. with a bullet profile similar to the .40S&W, Fiocchi has a lot of 158gr.
http://aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_9mm.html

I've also seen (not in person) a British 9mm cartridge with 170gr. bullet (subsonic even in Stens and Lanchester SMGs i suppose).
http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/intro9mm/

[hoji]

What is the price on that, and what is their price on a case {1000 rounds} of cheap practice ammo?

[Kurt S.]

Hey there, AntiBubba. Loved it how? How is the aim, recoil, etc?
Very accurate in the Ruger. Recoil is a little bit heavy for a 9mm, about like a NATO load, which is why I wouldn't shoot it in the FEG (not recommended for +P). But it's still a 9mm, somewhat less than a .45 or .40.

And powerful! Each impact splattered east Texas mud from the berm all the way back to the back of the target.

[MCgunner]

Prefer light, fast (115 grain) JHPs myself, wouldn't touch the stuff for self defense. Just as soon carry a .25. :rolleyes:

[BrokenArrow]

FWIW, the 158 FMJ will penetrate an old steel WWII helmet out to 50 yds, the 115/9 FMJ at 1150 fps will do it out to 120 yds, the 115/9 at 1250 fps past 130 yds.

IIRC, the old IMI/Samson/Uzi ammo tips were marked blue for subsonic, brown for +P/pistols, black for +P+/ carbines.

[CCWMAN]

Gentlemen,
The best brands of ball type ammo(which are also loaded European Style-meaning very hot by SAAMI specs) are Hansen, Fiocchi, Hirtenburger, Norma, and Lapua.

My favorites are Hansen and Fiocchi. In my experience the Fiocchi 123 gr. TC-FMJ(Truncated Cone Full Metal Jacket)is the most accurate! The Hansen is 124 gr. and is loaded to 1250-1275 f.p.s., the Fiocchi is 1250 f.p.s., and the Hirtenburger is 1300 f.p.s. I'm not sure about the others. The Hirtenburger has very hard primers and is made for Subguns and will not always go off in handguns. I've seen that 158 gr. stuff but never used it. If it's ball it ain't what you want for defense. That stuff was designed for suppressor/silencer use to elliminate the supersonic crack of the .9mm.

My hands down prefered ammo is the 123 gr Truncated cone fiocchi for ball and my new prefered defense round is the Baffalo Bore 124 grain load which uses 124 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow points at 1300 f.p.s.!! If our troops could use Baffalo Bore ammo with those hollow points they would NOT be switching to the .45 again.:D

[CCWMAN]

Antibubba,
I had a P1/P38 and it shot like crap. I also had the P5 Compact but it's accuracy was also horrible! I outshot both of those guns in accuracy with my S&W J-Frame 2" Bodyguard .38!!:what:

That was when I decided they had to go. The best nonpolymer walthers are the P88 and P88 Compact. They are both reliable and accurate with hollow points out of the box. The only thing i don't like is their horribly long double action pulls. My favorite .9mm pistol is the Browning High Power. Another great one for those who have bucks is the Sig P210 Longslide with 6" barrel and American 1911 style Safety/Magazine release($3200). That and the Mauser reproduction swiss pattern Luger($1200), the High Power GP Competition($950), and the French M.A.B. P15 are my favorites. I own the High Power and aspire to own the SIG & Mauser Luger.

[Kenneth Lew]

I've only used it for a suppressed uzi. Will not use it in anything else.

[Michael Zeleny]

My favorite .9mm pistol is the Browning High Power. Another great one for those who have bucks is the Sig P210 Longslide with 6" barrel and American 1911 style Safety/Magazine release($3200). That and the Mauser reproduction swiss pattern Luger($1200), the High Power GP Competition($950), and the French M.A.B. P15 are my favorites. I own the High Power and aspire to own the SIG & Mauser Luger.My first handgun was a Belgian-made Browning Hi-Power. I find the MAB P-15 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=84349) to be far superior in accuracy and durability. My 4" Mauser Swiss pattern 9mm Luger is okay, but not as well made as its wartime counterparts, let alone the real Swiss 1906/29 Parabellum (http://www.swissrifles.com/pistols/). I wrote an article about the SIG P210 (http://larvatus.livejournal.com/33732.html), my favorite handgun. I would choose an older P210-6 over the latest P210-5LS.

[Wes Janson]

I had a LEO give me a round of 9mm a few months back that had a blue bullet, that felt/looked like it was made of polymer. Don't remember the headstamp, but I want to say it was Federal? Looked to be a fairly heavy projectile, not sure precisely what weight. It had a slight hollow-point tip to it, I think. Any idea what it was?

[BluesBear]

There's been a lot of european polymer practice ammo imported recently.

What I have seen and used has been a blue polymer bullet and a blue polymer half case with brass head.

It's designed for indoor practice but DO NOT confuse it with Speer practice ammo.
The blue stuff has a very high muzzle velocity and could be dangerous without the proper backstop.
It will feed nicely from a magazine,
However it will NOT cycle a semi-auto.

It's also very loud. Ear protection is a must.

[cpileri]

Unfortunately, I did not have a very positive experience with subsonic 9mm. It was IMI, but not sure if its the exact same stuff you have.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113240

It did have a painted blue tip, so it sure sounds like it.
C-

[mainmech48]

IIRC, this stuff was originally designed for use in supressed pistols and subguns. Don't have hard data as to pressure specs, but would guess that they're on the higher end of the standard curve to ensure reliable function in the subbies. If you were going to run a bunch of it through your pistol regularly, a couple of pounds or so more on the recoil spring probably wouldn't hurt things and would be cheap insurance.

While I haven't seen any Hansen in a while around here, I used to buy quite a bit of it in 9x19 and .45 ACP. Both seemed to be a bit hotter than some other generic ball, likely due to being nearer actual NATO spec than most. FWIW, the .45 was exceptionally accurate for ball ammo in my pistols.

[orionengnr]

will it put down a shovel?
:)

[JeepDriver]

Been through about 1000 rds of the 158gr Blue Tip w/o issues.

I have a SRB'ed RRA 9mm AR-15 that eats it like candy, with the AWC Suppressor it's a real treat to shoot.

http://www.fototime.com/70288845D264F68/standard.jpg

[Wes Janson]

Found it. Feels like a polymer, has a smooth uninterrupted hollow-point. Brass stamped F C 9MM LUGER.

[BluesBear]

Well that's a Federal case.

It's probably an early Federal Nyclad.

S&W Nyclads used blue bullets and when S&W foolishly got out of the ammo business Federal bought all of the rights and remaining stock of Nyclad. Early LEO Federal Nyclad was loaded with S&W produced bullets in Federal cases.

Can you post a photo of the bullet to confirm this?

[Wes Janson]

Yup, I think so. http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Springfield_XD_Sub_Compact.htm has a picture of some, and it looks just like the ones he had. The guy who gave it to me has been a LEO and a firearms instructor for several years, so I imagine he might have been given a box or two of it a few years back. Also gave me some 9mm Black Talons he had floating around. We were shooting my Beretta Cx4, sortof an informal demonstration, and when I ran out of 9mm he started loading the mags with a real grab-bag of ammo-4 or 5 different types/brands at least. That one happened to be left over when we were done, so I kept it. In retrospect we should have saved all that interesting old ammo and just gone to the trouble of getting another box of WWB. :(