German made Sig


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trimation
April 30, 2003, 01:37 PM
What is better to have? A German made Sig P220 or American made? I noticed that the one I just got is German made.

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Ala Dan
April 30, 2003, 03:15 PM
Greeting's trimation-

I tend to favor WEST GERMAN made SIG-Sauer
self-loader's.:) When the Berlin wall came down in 1989,
the Swiss Industry Group decided to roll mark each unit
with "Made In Germany". I'm not aware of production of
the P220 being shifted to the United States?:uhoh: The
P220 in 9X19 is still very popular in some foregin land's.


Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

firestar
April 30, 2003, 03:27 PM
I had a German SIG 220 and I have seen a lot of American made 220s and I don't think it matters as much where it was made as when it was made. Certain years were much better than others. All things being equel, German made SIGs will probably be a little nicer and better made than American. The German metal workers have more training and are paid more than American workers. You pay for the best, you tend to get the best. If American gun companies paid its workers the same as German workers, I doubt you could tell the difference in quality. People would compeat for the jobs and only the top people would get them and you would have a higher standard of work. America is ALL about the bottom line and sometimes quality suffers.

Ala Dan
April 30, 2003, 03:37 PM
Att: firestar-

Would you believe in all my worldly travel's, I have NEVER
ran across an "American made" P220!:uhoh: I'm not
arguing the point; just stating that I find this truly
amazing. At any rate, I'm just glad I got my WEST GERMAN
P220!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

COHIBA
April 30, 2003, 03:53 PM
what you want is a 38 super P220 w/ heel mag release made in west germany.

vanfunk
April 30, 2003, 04:16 PM
I could be mistaken (:banghead: ) but I believe all alloy-framed P220's are still made in Germany. P220's of recent vintage are assembled in Exeter, NH, but still made in the old country.
I don't believe any stamped-steel slide SIG's are made in the US - P220, P225 and P228.
vanfunk

surfinUSA
April 30, 2003, 05:47 PM
The double action trigger pull on my American made SIG 239 Is the best DA trigger I've ever had on a semi auto. the DA trigger pull on my W. German SIG 220 45 is one of the heaviest. The gun is excellent in all other respects.

Ala Dan
April 30, 2003, 07:43 PM
Greeting's All-

Speaking of trigger pulls, those found on MY West German
P220 and P228 are excellent; with no stacking or drag!:uhoh:
Be advised that these two weapon's are stock SIG's; just
like they came from the old country.:)

With that said, I don't think there is such a thing as a bad
SIG. As a lot of care goes into producing each one; with
the QC at its highest level.:D Ever since SIG rectified the
frame cracking problem that was experienced on the P226:
the rest seem up to par.:neener:

Guns are only as good as their makers; and to me, the
Swiss Industry Group's design, along with the excellent
craftsmanship of the German tooling makes SIG's a very
fine firearm.

*FootNote- I still would like to have one of the early ones,
when they were known as the "Browning BDA".

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

agony
April 30, 2003, 07:54 PM
All of the stamped/folded slides are made in WGermany/Germany. Though the wall fell in 89, there are pistols assembled as late as 92/93 that still have the "W.Germany" stamped in the slide.

There are some stamped-slide pistols, notably the 228, that are assmebled in the US with German-made slides. But since they are assembled here, there are none of the tell-tale German proofmarks found beneath the muzzle-end of the slide. These too have laser-etched frame serial #s, and do not come with serial#s on the slide or barrel. I have one of these P228s.

Also the Swiss police surplus P225 pistols with the European heel-mag release, though made from WGerman stamped slides, are marked "Montage Suise", or assembled in Switzerland, on the slide beneath the right side front sight. Also the tell-tale Swiss markings are found on the slide as well.

The general consensus is that American assembled or German assembled pistols are of the same high quality.

firestar
April 30, 2003, 08:17 PM
I never claimed to be a SIG expert. When I bought my W. German SIG 220, it was sitting next to another SIG 220 that said made in U.S.A., I chose the W. German one because it had a darker finish and because of the outstanding reputation that Germen engineers and metal workers have. I didn't know they were both made in Germany.

My point stills stands, I would rather have a gun made in Germany than the same gun for the same price made in America. I have great respect for German workmanship. People say SIG are expensive and overpriced but I don't know what they are talking about, what can you compare to a SIG? Too bad they don't fit my hand and the DA trigger sucked on my 220.

faustulus
May 1, 2003, 04:43 AM
I tend to favor WEST GERMAN made SIG-Sauer

Man am I glad I am not the only one with this hang up.

:)

Ian11
May 1, 2003, 08:13 AM
I too tend to favor my German proofed stamp steel P226 over other 9mm SIG's but its more of an irrational thing concerning proof marks, country of origin/assembly, and the stamp steel slide than anything else. I guess there's a part of me that's a "purist" (in other words someone who doesn't like change ;) ) And, I guess the fact this P226 has been scary accurate for me makes me so partial to it; but so is my "American" SIG P220ST.

Don't beat yourself up over it. I've owned and still own various SIG's (German Made and Proofed P226, German Made/American Assembled P228 and P220, and German Frame/American Slide/American Assembled P220ST and P229) and they are all of "equal" quality. Over at www.sigforum.com the general consensus from others who have also owned both or all 3 say that "in general" there is no difference other than cosmetic differences or the material of the slide. I used to own an H&K USP/C that was a total lemon and that cured me of this fable that Germans are these magical elves that can only produce fantastical products. (Not to mention a BMW 325i that had interior moldings falling apart prematurely or Mercedes Benzes that handle like boats, but that's another story ;) ) Americans know a thing or two about guns you know. :cuss: For what its worth, I believe SIG consistently produces the highest quality handgun compared to any other mass produced gun manufacturer out there. Others are very close but a SIG out of the box or used has never let me down.

Go to your gunstore that has both a "German" SIG and an "American" SIG and pick the one with the better trigger pull and the features you like. It won't be easy.:neener: :evil:

Ala Dan
May 1, 2003, 01:25 PM
Greeting's Ian11-

Thanks for the great report on your German P226; or was
it a West German P226? How about the West German made
and assembled P228 9m/m, with the German proof house
marking's. My early production P228 (1990) has proven to
be every bit as accurate as my former German P226!:uhoh:
When using the P228 to qualify with (giving the .45 caliber
SIG P220 a break), I was able to obtain slightly better
score's; than with the P226.:) At any rate, I agree with
you that SIG's are some of the finest mass produced
firearm's available!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

trimation
May 1, 2003, 06:56 PM
What about the finish on the Sigs? My 220 is brand new and I can already see where it is wearing a little bit where people at the gun shop handled it before I bought it.

What can I do to correct this?

vanfunk
May 1, 2003, 07:52 PM
Where is the finish wearing? Even with relatively sedate manual cycling of the slide, the barrel bluing will begin to wear in a characteristic half-moon pattern known to SIG afficionados as "smiling". This does not affect the function of the pistol and just indicates (to me, anyway) tight fitting of the barrel to the slide - generally not a bad thing in an autopistol:D . SIG finishes are not known for being robust, but the slide and frame finish really shouldn't wear appreciably through casual handling in the gunstore. I bought a new P220 a few weeks ago (my fourth) and the slide finish is much improved as compared to my other, older SIGs. My newest is a range gun and hence will show no holster wear, but I handle it daily and have already put a few hundred rounds through it. There is no visible wear on the external surfaces of the slide or frame. The barrel shows a series of dull "smiles":cool: and the breechface is showing some wear. It's still a "new" gun by all functional means.
HTH,
vanfunk

Ian11
May 2, 2003, 12:02 AM
Greetings to you Ala Dan,

My P226 9mm is "Made in Germany" with a KF date stamp (95). I was about to buy a new one but I got lucky and found this slightly used steel stamp slide P226. Its rock tight as the day it was born, hardly any signs of the "smiley face" on the barrel, no wear on the breach, and the exterior finish is pristine. I also like the look and feel of the older style grips, the balance of stamp steel slides, proof marks, and the "SIG Sauer" rollmark on the slide of the German Made SIG's. (Sometimes the planets do align :D) And the trigger is the sweetest I ever felt in a production gun. Wonderfully crisp and very clean. I can't imagine a DA/SA trigger gettin any better than this. I own other SIG's and my P220ST is very good but my P226 is exceptional. I also have a P228 and I used to own a P220 and P229's and they were fine. But it shows SIG triggers can vary from decent to exceptional.

But what really made me happy was the way it shot. At an outdoor range we have steel plates set up at 50 feet and I was able to hit them with incredible consistency. "Plink!" "Plink!" "Plink!" "Plink!" Very very satisfying. Something I was never able to do with any other pistol I ever owned. I was grinning like a fool the whole time. After every mag I shot I held the gun saying to myself "Where have you been all my life!?" I'm used to shooting .45's and compact .40's these days so recoil from the full size 9mm is a breeze now. I'd say I hit the plates about 80% of the time which I'm more than grateful to get. I remember a post from TFL by someone who described their P226 as "rifle accurate". I rolled my eyes at that and it is obviously an overstatement but I now understand his sentiment about the fabulous P226.

My P228 is of recent manufacture which I bought new. Its Made in Germany but assembled and proofed in the U.S. I do like it because of its more compact size but it doesn't approach the same shootability of the full size P226 and P220ST. Also the fact that it often throws hot brass to my forehead is a bit annoying. Its a great pistol and it is still pretty new (200 rounds) but its got quite an attitude.:neener:

Excuse the length. But you encouraged it.;)

Ala Dan
May 2, 2003, 11:47 AM
Thanks for the post Ian!!-

I'm glad to hear the good report on SIG's!:) I've been
a big fan of their fine firearm's for a long, long time;
dating back to the introduction of the P220 as the
"Browning BDA". That was about 1980, I believe?
SIG's have served be well; especially during my days
as a LEO.:uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

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