Dealing with family


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Chrontius
June 20, 2006, 04:26 AM
Ok, here's the deal. Live-at-home college student. Job, money, but not *nearly* enough to move out yet.

My mother, while having considered a CCW permit a while back, will not permit firearms in the house (or motorcycles or tattoos) under threat of ... dire retribution ranging from living on the porch (hurricane season... or heck, Florida summers. *shudder*) to disowning.

How do I talk her into a Walther G22 before the Phaser Rifle Gray ones go out of stock and not-on-sale?

I've tried taking her to the range, shooting down (no pun intended) her arguments, and now it's ... just an arbitrary no. OTOH, she considered it for half a minute before repeating that again. I'll ask again... and again, and again. I won't give in until I move out, or I'm oiling my new toy. Normally I can afford to be patient, but... Walther made them limited-edition. I'm irritated.

No "move out" "you're screwed" or "do it anyway" posts, but... anything else is appreciated.

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k_semler
June 20, 2006, 04:39 AM
You have a bed with a matress right? Just cut it open, install a zipper on the bottom of it, and hide it in there. Or just do what I did, and buy shotgun case to keep your "breakables" in, such as CD's, movies, etc. After she sees it for 4 or 5 months, she won't think anything of it. Then buy your pistol and hide it in there among your assortment of crap, (and let's face it, it probably is crap that you don't need). Considering I could hide a rifle and a pistol in my room when I was with my folks, (rifle in case behind bookcase next to bed, and pistol buried under socks in drawer), you can easily find a place to hide a simple handgun. At least with only a hand gun, you won't have to worry about only cleaning your room when nobody's home. Depending on how bad you want to hide it, I suppose you could duct-tape it to the heater vent going into your room. (remove gaurd, duct tape out of sight but in easy reach, replace gaurd, screw down).

Crap, I feel like I'm suggesting on how to hide illicit drugs or something. Ever thought of just keeping it in your car?

quazi
June 20, 2006, 04:44 AM
Maybe if you buy a handgun safe, and say that she can keep the key. It would be irritating, I know, but at least you would be able to get the gun you want.

There is one other way I can think of. We aren't allowed to keep weapons in the dorms, but we can keep them locked up in the campus police station. You might want to see if your college allows something similar.

Chrontius
June 20, 2006, 04:55 AM
G22 is a bullpup carbine in .22 Long Rifle. CDNN expects to run out in a week.

Cars are shared, but it's the sort of thinking I like.

College police station's not a bad idea, but I think it may be against Florida law. (:barf:) I'll check tomorrow.

The Good
June 20, 2006, 04:57 AM
are you trying to do this without deception?

cause i was gonna say the same thing as the first post. get a safe and hide it somewhere. if she finds the safe say theres embarassing stuff in there like love notes from your 9th grade girlfriend and what not.

my best advice for convincing her to let you have it would be show her your CCW permit and tell her the police consider me responsible enough to have this and i feel it is my responsibility to have a weapon now that ihave the knowledge and training necessary. tell her you would hate to be in a situation where you could help but have your hands tied.

quazi
June 20, 2006, 06:03 AM
G22 is a bullpup carbine in .22 Long Rifle. CDNN expects to run out in a week.
Oops, I read "Walther" and assumed handgun.

Wiley
June 20, 2006, 08:01 AM
How do I talk her into a Walther G22 before the Phaser Rifle Gray ones go out of stock and not-on-sale?

Ya don't. Look, they (or something even better) will be on sale next year, two years from now, five years from now. Don't sweat the small stuff. And don't try an go around the edges, it ain't worth it.

I'm 57. My mother said no motorcycles, no this, no that, etc when I was growing up. After I was on my own (my roof, my rules) I got a motorcycle, sold the car and spent the next 7-8 years on two wheels. Never had a problem with Mom. I'm sure she didn't like it but she recognised that I was an adult, paying my own way, and it wasn't her place to say anything. (She's kinda cool that way.) She's now in a Nursing home and the roles have reversed.

Comming up to high school graduation, I didn't want to go to college, I wanted to go into the military. Folks shot that down, so I went (for almost a year, flunked out (simi-deliberatly). Enllisted in the Navy. Had fout great years, decided to go back to college and had another four great years. Point being: My roof-my rules.

I've built a mental 'to-do' list and I been gradualy checking them off. Do the same. For everything on my list, there's somebody that isn't going to like it. But, 'my roof, my rules'.

BTW, anybody got a Formula car that I can get 10-15 laps in? On a decient road course? F3 or better?

hso
June 20, 2006, 11:00 AM
Since you want it as a collectable have her hold it for you in a locked gun case. Explain that you'd be happy to wait until you move, but there may not be any more and you'd be grateful if she'd help with this. You buy the gun, she keeps the gun in a locked case and the key and case and you only get it to go to the range. Eventually she'll feel silly about it and you'll have advanced the cause.

TIMC
June 20, 2006, 12:04 PM
Honesty is the best policy. Respect you parents wishes while in their home. It is not worth the wedge you will drive between you. I'm quite sure you would want the same repect on something you felt strongly about. When you get on your own do what you want. there will always be another gun, parents are limited. Going against their wishes in their own home for ones petty desires is just wrong. Sorry if it sounds rude but it is the right thing to do. Maturity is "I don't agree with you mom but I will abide by it since I love and respect you".

lance22
June 20, 2006, 12:14 PM
Well ... you seem like a peace loving guy which is a good start because you can't argue your way into a parent's mind. You seem like you are living within your parent's constraints which is admirable. I think TIMC said it all.

Here's some advice: When you move out don't get an ANTI 2A wife. You have to wait a year or two to buy that nice piece no big deal as time will pass quickly and before you know it you will be out on your own. But if you leave home only to get a wife who is anti-gun, then the rest of your life you are doomed to struggle with what should be a given.

pax
June 20, 2006, 12:46 PM
Do you have a friend who has an extra space in his safe?

pax

TaxPhd
June 20, 2006, 01:05 PM
One of the joys of not being a dependent child, but rather an adult that is able to take care of himself, is that these situations no longer arise. Living under someone elses roof requires following the rules of the roof owner. To not do so would be very disrespectful.

ScottsGT
June 20, 2006, 01:14 PM
Moms doing you a favor. That rifle is UGLY!! :neener:
Got a close friend that you can trust it with? Have a friend keep it, but you have the key to the trigger lock and case lock.

hksw
June 20, 2006, 01:32 PM
As her if purchasing a small safe (or whatever the safe experts call them) to store it in would ease her mind.

CNYCacher
June 20, 2006, 02:11 PM
One of the joys of not being a dependent child, but rather an adult that is able to take care of himself, is that these situations no longer arise. Living under someone elses roof requires following the rules of the roof owner. To not do so would be very disrespectful.


Seconded

rbernie
June 20, 2006, 02:25 PM
Most indoor ranges will sell a small locker for a nominal fee. I'd buy it and keep it in there - you get what you want and she get's her rule's respected.

Working Man
June 20, 2006, 02:55 PM
If you can convince her to let you have it that is one thing.
But to hide it would plain disrespectful and if it was found she would lose all
trust in you.

Her house, her rules.

Technosavant
June 20, 2006, 03:40 PM
If you don't have a friend who will house it, then I would recommend not doing anything. Put the money in the bank, and add to it, little by little. When you get on your own, go get it. They'll keep making the G22.

Guns go on sale from time to time. The last time I bought a gun because I thought it was on sale, I turned out to be mistaken- that was the normal price. I don't regret having done it, but I should have exercised more forethought. You don't want to rush into any firearm purchase, lest you look back and think "dang, I should have dont X instead...".

k_semler
June 20, 2006, 07:04 PM
Here's another thought. Rent a locker at a bus station, train station, or Store4U place. It will be off the premisis, and would not be in violation of any of her rules. (no guns under my roof). So long as you have it off the premisis, what's the problem?

lacoochee
June 20, 2006, 08:08 PM
I kept my firearms at the campus police station on USF, they will most likely still do this for you. Just make sure you keeped them locked and cased when you go in, you don't want any misunderstandings.

http://www.usfpd.usf.edu/serv.asp

They still do, there's your solution.

Deo Vindice

doubleaes2
June 20, 2006, 09:07 PM
If you're close enough to me, you're welcome to use a slot in my safe. Seriously.

Chrontius
June 22, 2006, 02:57 AM
The Good:
I'm going to get the CCW regardless. Worst case, I switch my flashlight for an Asp baton. On the other hand, when she tells me to take my sister to the mall and keep an eye on her, the first thing I think is "Great. About the only thing I can do for her is die first."


Wiley:
That would be another potential hobby, but it involves being written out of the will. Besides that, you suggested my default course of action (story of my life).


Hso:
I'd try that too. OTOH, she tells me I know why she's refusing. I don't. Ironically, she considered getting her permit and probably would have had my little shooting-range expedition not morphed into a office permit-party on my sister's birthday. (Not even at the free place - I provided coupons)


Lance:
:cuss: yes. Read too many horror stories here. To start off, I'm a Nice Guy. The kind females turn to after their bad breakup. As a result, landing a date is nigh unto impossible, especially considering that I'd like to be able to have a conversation. I'm a geek - that rather limits areas of my enjoyment, on top of that. You're right - time will pass, hairlines will recede, and the thrill will be gone. I like the bit about "doomed to struggle" - that's about how I'm feeling by now. I've been working on my parents for three years now. My father isn't even neutral - at least he stopped tirading - and my mother simply clammed up.


Rbernie:
Possibly the most practical solution. I'll call around *glance at clock* today.


Technosavant: I've been grimacing at prices on these for about two years, and trying to decide between a Browning auto-22 and the Walther G22. Walther has better balance, but Browning's slightly prettier. If the Walther didn't scream "Type 3 Phaser Rifle" it wouldn't get *any* points in this category.


K:
It's not "under her roof". Good turn of phrase, but not hers. Her original deal involved off-site storage; when I confronted her with plans to do so, she reneged.


Doubleaes:
Probably the nicest offer I've gotten in a while, especially out of the blue like that. Unfortunately... I'll let Google say it. "Distance: 101 mi (about 2 hours 20 mins)" Thank you for the offer.

Dacoda
June 22, 2006, 03:31 AM
Have you ever taken your mom shooting? if not, think about it, take her to the range, demonstrate safe firearm handling and teach her the same.

if she has a good time, you'll have a new range buddy. and some new guns to shoot :)

Don't Tread On Me
June 22, 2006, 05:02 AM
This is one situation where you absolutely, positively must disobey your parents for their own good. :D


Look, there are those that will put you down for living with your parents, ignore them. At the same time, your parents, IMO, are being too restrictive as you are now an adult, and if they haven't raised you well enough to trust you with a firearm, why do they even let you in the house in the first place? Makes no sense. OK to drive a 2,500lb deadly weapon - check, OK to join military and control multi-million dollar WMD's - check, OK to legally buy a firearm - check. Keep a .22LR in the house - NO GO.

But hey, that's mom for you.


I've been in the exact same position as you. Solution: get the rifle, hide it or lock it up, don't say anything, go about your business. Soon enough, you will be on your own and this will be a memory.

Optical Serenity
June 22, 2006, 05:31 AM
This is one situation where you absolutely, positively must disobey your parents for their own good.

HAHAHA!

+1

Thats great.

Chrontius
June 22, 2006, 06:16 AM
...so take this with a grain of salt. :uhoh:

The obvious solution seems to lie with weapons-grade lasers, but how do you run them during (or immediately after) a hurricane?

AJ Dual
June 22, 2006, 02:11 PM
Just set your "gottahaveititis" aside for the moment. I'm 33 years old, I have approximately 40+ firearms in my collection, and honestly, I regret approximately half the firearms I acquired over "gottahavititis" in some way or another, and know exactly what I'd rather have once I did some research or learned more...

So that means even if you did get the grey G22, I predict there's a 50% chance you'll learn more about shooting, and want a different .22 within a few years time. Say like a Ruger 10/22 because the target and competition accessories market is so huge, just as an example. So relax.

The grey "limited edition" Walther G22 will never be a high-end collectable within the next ten years. It will be worth nothing more than a used Walther G22 based on it's condition. Assuming Walther never makes another grey G22, the Blue Book will probably never put a premium higher than an extra $50 on one that's pristine New-In-Box condition in the next decade over a black or a green one. So don't sweat it.

A few people may buy into the "limited edition" BS, and might be selling theirs for a ridiculous price, but if you look around, or check gunbroker once you're living on your own, you'll find one eventually. Or, your tastes in firearms will have changed completely by then, and you won't care for the Walther one way or the other.

Here's what I would do, open a high-interest checking account, or money-market fund where you get the decent interest (for savings anyway) of 3-5%, and every time you have "the bug" for a certain gun that you can't get because of your mother, put the purchase price it would have been into that fund and save it. You'll be flush with cash when you finally do move out, and can jump-start your gun collection, ammo, a safe, all of that.

While you're saving money, to work on your mother, you need to act, and stop talking. Right now she probably has no real idea that you're serious about becoming a shooter, and just sees your desire for the Walther as another "toy". But this one is admittedly, a potentially lethal toy. And in her mind the risk isn't worth what she thinks will be 1-2 months of interest in plinking, then to be forgotten when you move onto something else.

To "work" on your mother, quit arguing with her directly. (anti-gun) Mothers are ultimately women. (THR Women, please let me be, I'm generalizing, obviously...) And women are often motivated by Emotion, Guilt, and "Mother Logic".

Despite your age, you are still her son, Emotion is telling her that she needs to protect you from harm. She would feel endless Guilt if she allowed you to own a firearm, and you then injured or killed yourself. Mother Logic tells her that at least while you are under her control, if you don't own the firearm you can't be harmed.

So, back to the problem of your Mother, what do you need to attack? Simple. Emotion, Guilt, and Mother Logic.

How do you do this? By turning her Emotion and Guilt to your advantage, and undermining the Mother Logic.

The Plan:

It sounds as though you've had some kind of shooting opportunities before, even though you don't own any guns of your own. Keep up with those, whatever they are.

Spend $35 and join the NRA. This shows you are serious about being a shooter.

Buy your own eye and ear protection if you don't have any already. This shows you are serious about safety.

You need to join every organized shooting sport you can legally participate in, afford to participate in, and can do so with borrowed firearms from the club, or from participants willing to help you out. This shows you are serious about shooting.

Most shotgun clubs have rental guns, and it only costs an extra dollar or two to use it. Most also have a "lesson day" where the owner or a pro will give a class on trap or skeet shooting. The good ones will charge only $20 for the lesson, and they donate the funds to youth shooting programs or the NRA etc.

Find out online, from the NRA, the local gun stores, or local ranges about all the competitions, shooter's clinics, classes etc. that you can find. Don't be shy, and explain that you're 18, have anti-gun parents, but want to participate in the shooting sports as much as you can. If you get rebuffed by some cranky shooters, keep trying. Ask how someone who doesn't have the proper rifle can participate, or if there are members willing to take you under their wing. Eventualy you'll find someone who understands we need new shooters to keep the sport and RKBA alive, and you'll find someone who gets that.

For instance, High-Power clubs/competitions make loaner M1 Garands available, because the High-Power participation is a requirement for buying a low-cost surplus M1 from the CMP. If they didn't, there'd be a chicken-n-egg problem.

So if every weekend you're out to a range or a club, and coming home with stories about how you participated in this shoot and that, how your score improved over last time, you'll get to your mother. And you'll be getting at her through the very things that are making her forbid you own guns now.

Emotionaly, parents want their children to be happy. If she sees you're truly dedicated to shooting competitions and clubs, she will begin to feel Guilty. By participating in all the various shooting sports, clubs, and venues, it will defeat the Mother Logic that preventing your ownership of a firearm will prevent you from being exposed to them. If you're spending a great deal of time around firearms and shooting them anyway, the Mother Logic fails, and there is no point in preventing your owning one.

And furthermore, there's lots of people on these Internet boards, myself included, who have lots of guns in their collections, but never any time or money to shoot them. If you follow the above advice and get involved in clubs, groups, and competitions, you're better off in the long run with lots of trigger time and fewer guns, than you are with lots of guns and little trigger time. You'l be that more of a "real shooter".

One more thing. +1000 to those who gave you the long-term advice to not marry or seriously date an anti-gun woman. You also need to be aware if a fiancée or serious girlfriend is a fence-sitter, that you make it abundantly clear that the guns stay. It's not always a crystal-clear plan in her head, but many women see their men as a "project", and will go into a relationship thinking they'll just get him to get rid of the gun collection "later". Even if she shows no desire at the time to pressure you into giving up guns, make it clear you won't, and do it repeatedly.

If she actualy loves shooting, or takes a dedicated interest after meeting you, start ring shopping. :D

Havegunjoe
June 22, 2006, 05:47 PM
And put it in a safety deposit box or some other secure storage container off her property.

Mr. James
June 22, 2006, 06:28 PM
IV. Honor thy father and thy mother.

Tread carefully, Chrontius: The Man has spoken, and He don't mess around! :uhoh:



:)

shooter94
June 22, 2006, 10:24 PM
Mom was cool about guns in our house...my Dad had his all over the house, I had mine in my room. Her only complaint was all the loose cartridges she'd pick up...:rolleyes:

Mannlicher
June 22, 2006, 10:48 PM
Time to grow up and move.

stellaone
June 23, 2006, 12:20 AM
Chrontius- I do understand your frustration. My dad bought a snubby when I was 8 years old and we moved to a bad neighborhood in LA. He took me to the mountains several times to learn how to shoot the gun and always let me know where it was, loaded, in the house. He donated it to the police station when we moved to another state.

I just recently bought my first gun and my dad is really against it. I own my own home, but I live near my parents and they have a big place in my life. He has been weird around me since I bought the gun and won't talk to me about it. He knows that I bought it not only because I believe strongly in the 2A, but also because my job takes me into dangerous situations. Still, he is adamant that I should get rid of it and should never have bought it in the first place. It's hard. I try not to upset my parents- they have given me a tremendous amount of love and support throughout my life. I made the decision to buy the gun and, essentially, disappoint my father because of my strong beliefs in favor of owning one. I would be in a real predicament if I still lived at home and had to deal with the disappointment on a daily basis.

AJ Dual-- Excellent post!

wheelgunslinger
June 23, 2006, 12:44 AM
Chrontius,
I have to second Wiley's post. Very good advice, even if you can't follow it.

Chrontius
June 23, 2006, 04:03 AM
What really galls me was she was perfectly willing to buy me a freaking samurai sword (two - one blunt, grooved, whistles-when-you-swing-right practice blade, and one "bisect you lengthwise" live blade) and train me up until she found out that it was a $500 initial investment. *rolls eyes*

Second: I want the walther because I can't afford to rent. $7 plus ammo for an afternoon is much easier to swing than $35 plus ammo an afternoon.

I plan to get my CCW before I join the NRA, as one is more funds-critical. OTOH, I got the thing in the mail - I'm going to join and leave the NRA duffel bag sitting out whenever I can get away with it.


James: He also seems to enjoy royally screwing Me.


Mannlicher: watch the attitude. I'm working on it.


Stellaone: I get the dissappointment without any of the benefits.


And finally, AJ: I'm printing that one off for reference. :D

akodo
June 24, 2006, 08:56 PM
Mannlicher is right. I don't see any attidude in his post other than truth. The fact that you do tells me something

Here's the deal. You are of a legal age that the state sees you as an adult. The idea behind waiting until someone is 18 before they are termed an adult is in hopes that by then they will have learned enough to be an adult. Lesson #1, in my opinion, is that actions have consequences.

"Wiley:
That would be another potential hobby, but it involves being written out of the will. Besides that, you suggested my default course of action (story of my life). "

It seems to me you are unwilling to accept the consequences.

If it truely matters to you, buy that gun and face the consequences. This may mean moving out. This may mean storing it somewhere else. (and if part of the consequences of that decision is being cut out of the will, then so be it). This may mean buying a gun safe and giving the keys away.

Or choose not to buy the gun.

What you really need to do is grow up. I frankly don't care if that hurts your feelings or violates the rules you set up at the beginning of this thread.

There is a reason they say the truth hurts. Good luck.

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