Fox News reports missing soldiers dead


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Kentak
June 20, 2006, 08:06 AM
Not confirmed by US military, but Fox News reports Iraqi govt has confirmed to them that the two missing soldiers' bodies were found on the streets, near where they went missing.

Bastards!

K

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Leatherneck
June 20, 2006, 08:32 AM
Oh man, that's what I was afraid of. At least they weren't mutilated on Al-Jazeera.

How ironic that we're court-martialing Marines and Soldiers right now for over-reacting during an attack. Then on the other hand, we're telling them (or we SHOULD be telling them): "Don't get captured--you will be killed." That's a lot of weight for young men to carry.

My sympathy to the families, and prayers for the safety of all y'all still over there. Take care.

TC

Kentak
June 20, 2006, 08:51 AM
And, yes, it appears they were tortured.

Hkmp5sd
June 20, 2006, 10:09 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200217,00.html

Mongo the Mutterer
June 20, 2006, 10:19 AM
Bless them and their families.

from one who sleeps well at night due to their sacrifices, and is eternally grateful to them, and their brothers.

YellowLab
June 20, 2006, 12:17 PM
It should be evident to all US Forces that surrender is NOT an option. DO NOT expect humane treatment and FULLY understand that you will be killed and your headless body dumped in the streets

Go down fighting my brothers in arms. Better than being at the mercy of those ragheads.

Deanimator
June 20, 2006, 12:19 PM
Tortured and murdered by Murtha's "freedom fighters"...

Lupinus
June 20, 2006, 12:32 PM
they were also tortured, and while specifics obviously weren't aired they did make a point to say that it was BRUTAL.

And these aholes whine and moan about Guantonamo Bay? About a slight mishandeling of a book? Interegation methods that are only torture in the eyes of bliss ninnies? I fail to see why the hell we worry about the idiots whining that we torture people when they do this and cut off heads.

SSN Vet
June 20, 2006, 12:38 PM
Don't they practice and eye for an eye?

Maybe we should too?

SSN Vet
June 20, 2006, 12:41 PM
If there is an international outcry from "the world community".

Why do we maintain treaties with those who sympathize more with our enemies than with us?

Let's see what Amnesty International and the Red Cross have to say about this one.

SSN Vet
June 20, 2006, 12:46 PM
Remember the Alamo!

Remember the Maine!

Remember Pearl Harbor!

Remember 9/11!

and...

Remember Pfc. Kristian Menchaca and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER FORGET WHAT THESE BASTARDS HAVE DONE TO US!!

K-Romulus
June 20, 2006, 12:48 PM
I am pretty sure (based on the one conversation I had with a Marine headed back for his THIRD Iraq tour) that the folks in the sandbox are aware of the consequences of getting captured by the "insurgents."

According to news reports, these two guy were PFC's whose Specialist got wiped out first, leaving them to fend for themselves. :(

IF they got the Jihadi Necklace treatment by this al-Muhajir person (however you spell his name), I won't be surprised if the "Haditha ROE" becomes the defacto standard . . .:uhoh:

http://p31.news.re2.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AoPp.hKUMZ7P7U5F1YTFEblg.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Bodies of missing U.S. soldiers recovered

By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer

The bodies of two U.S. soldiers reported captured last week have been recovered, and an Iraqi defense ministry official said Tuesday the men were "killed in a barbaric way." The U.S. military said the remains were believed to be those of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, 23, of Houston, and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, 25, of Madras, Ore.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said U.S. forces — part of a search involving some 8,000 American and Iraqi troops — found the bodies late Monday near Youssifiyah, where they disappeared Friday. The bodies were recovered early Tuesday.

Caldwell said the cause of death was "undeterminable at this point," and that the bodies would be taken back to the United States for DNA tests to confirm the identities.

Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for killing the soldiers, and said the successor to slain terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had "slaughtered" them, according to a Web statement that could not be authenticated. The language in the statement suggested the men had been beheaded.

The two soldiers disappeared after a deadly insurgent attack Friday at a checkpoint by a Euphrates River canal south of Baghdad. Spc. David J. Babineau, 25, of Springfield, Mass., was killed. The three men were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Ky.

The director of the Iraqi defense ministry's operation room, Maj. Gen. Abdul-Aziz Mohammed, said the bodies showed signs of having been tortured. "With great regret, they were killed in a barbaric way," he said.

The claim of responsibility was made in the name of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of five insurgent groups led by al-Qaida in Iraq. The group had posted an Internet statement Monday claiming it was holding the two American soldiers captive.

"We give the good news ... to the Islamic nation that we have carried God's verdict by slaughtering the two captured crusaders," said the claim, which appeared on an Islamic militant Web site where insurgent groups regularly post statements and videos.

"With God Almighty's blessing, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer carried out the verdict of the Islamic court" calling for the soldiers' slaying, the statement said.

The statement said the soldiers were "slaughtered," suggesting that al-Muhajer beheaded them. The Arabic word used in the statement, "nahr," is used for the slaughtering of sheep by cutting the throat and has been used in past statements to refer to beheadings.

The U.S. military has identified al-Muhajer as an Egyptian associate of al-Zarqawi who is also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri.

The killings would be the first acts of violence attributed to al-Muhajer since he was named al-Qaida in Iraq's new leader in a June 12 Web message by the group. He succeeded al-Zarqawi, who was killed in a U.S. airstrike on June 7.

Al-Zarqawi made al-Qaida in Iraq notorious for hostage beheadings and was believed to have killed two American captives himself — Nicholas Berg in April 2004 and Eugene Armstrong in September 2004.

The checkpoint attacked Friday was in the Sunni Arab region known as the "Triangle of Death" because of frequent ambushes there of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi troops.

Iraqi and American troops involved in the search for the missing soldiers killed three suspected insurgents and detained 34 in fighting that also left seven U.S. servicemen wounded, Caldwell said.

A farmer claiming to have witnessed the attack told The Associated Press on Sunday that insurgents swarmed the checkpoint, killing the driver of a Humvee before taking two of his comrades captive.

Ahmed Khalaf Falah said three Humvees were manning a checkpoint when they came under fire from many directions. Two Humvees went after the assailants but the third was ambushed before it could move.

He said seven masked gunmen, one carrying a heavy machine gun, killed the driver of the third vehicle and took the two other U.S. soldiers captive. His account could not be verified independently.

Kidnappings of U.S. service members have been rare since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, despite the presence of about 130,000 forces.

The last U.S. soldier to be captured was Sgt. Keith M. Maupin of Batavia, Ohio, who was taken on April 9, 2004 after insurgents ambushed his fuel convoy. Two months later, a tape on Al-Jazeera purported to show a captive U.S. soldier shot, but the Army ruled it was inconclusive and remains listed as missing.

Caldwell said that in addition to the two soldiers, a dozen Americans — including Maupin and 11 private citizens — are missing in Iraq. In addition, Capt. Michael Speicher, a Navy pilot, remains listed as missing in Iraq since the 1991 Persian Gulf War, he said.

Lupinus
June 20, 2006, 12:56 PM
I was going to say something about eye for an eye, but it really wouldn't be high road and I wont.

Sufice to say, eye for an eye.

I want to know where the protests and outcry from the UN are over this.

Cosmoline
June 20, 2006, 01:03 PM
No surprise, other than the quickness. I was expecting AQ to drag this out with lots of videos and demands. Hopefully we'll get more of the story at some point.

Ahmed Khalaf Falah said three Humvees were manning a checkpoint when they came under fire from many directions. Two Humvees went after the assailants but the third was ambushed before it could move.


We should have called in the moabs. The captured soldiers were already as good as dead at that point, and we had a chance to take out a real rat's nest. Whether we do it or the militias do it, someone at some point is going to have to have the will to clean out these pits. Even the children in these insurgent strongholds are little demons.

Roadwild17
June 20, 2006, 01:10 PM
I really with a TRH member would run for prez, maby then things would be a lot better.

Sodbuster
June 20, 2006, 01:16 PM
All the above I agree with, but two PFCs murdered. One SP4 killed last Friday in the attack. Where were the NCOs?

WT
June 20, 2006, 01:20 PM
" ........ it is useless to occupy it; but the utter destruction of the roads, houses and people will cripple their military resources. I shall then feel justified in resorting to the harshest measures, and shall make little effort to restrain my army.

"We are not only fighting hostile armies, but a hostile people and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war. The truth is the whole army is burning with an insatiable desire to wreak vengeance ......."

Gen. William T. Sherman

1wildbill
June 20, 2006, 01:30 PM
"........crusade,"

Our troops are fighting an enemy whose thinking is from the 13th Century.

God bless our Armed Services.

JesseJames
June 20, 2006, 01:34 PM
Oh man.
I have the worst feeling that things to come are going to make the Haditha incident look like childs play. :(

DonP
June 20, 2006, 01:40 PM
I'm sure that Barbara Boxer, Kerry, and Murtha will be calling for Senate hearings soon on this torture issue ...

Oh, it was our people that were the victims, never mind, no political points to be scored based on that.

May God bless and comfort their families.

For the families sake, I wish they had not been so graphic in the description of how they died.

But every trooper over there knows what they are in for now, if they didn't before, and knows that surrender is not an option in any circumstances

Mongo the Mutterer
June 20, 2006, 01:40 PM
just might be the time to get Medieval...

orangelo
June 20, 2006, 02:11 PM
When do the gloves finally come off? They've been doing this type of stuff for decades. Remember the soldiers in Somalia that were dragged out of their crashed helicopter and dismembered and dragged around town?

What about the KBR employees that they burned, mutilated and hung off a bridge?

And the ACLU and Amnesia International complains about things like panties on heads, dropping a book on the floor, putting the air conditioner at 70 degrees and handing out 4 sheets of toilet paper as 'torture'. :fire:

offthepaper
June 20, 2006, 02:12 PM
Quote:
"Tortured and murdered by Murtha's "freedom fighters"..."
--------------------
Maybe he could lead the next patrol.

Cosmoline
June 20, 2006, 02:21 PM
If these Hajis had a clue, they'd be begging our guys for protection. When the Sheit dominated army and militias don't have us looking over their shoulder, they won't be bound by the rules of war. And as much desire we have for revenge, the people to the south have it a thousand fold. I don't expect anyone in the triangle to be left alive.

Camp David
June 20, 2006, 02:26 PM
Fox News reports missing soldiers dead
Sad to hear this; condolences to the families and survivors...

That said, we should take the first 20 detainees at Guantanamo and execute them and film it live then deliver the video to Al Jazerra. Why?

This is not a conventional war but a war against the mindset of the Muslim terrorist extremists where conventional Christian principles and laws of war no longer apply. The enemy practices guerilla tactics while we jail and schackle U.S. Marines for suspected errors in protocol. Under such a system: WE WILL LOSE. We can't win.

Therefore, when fighting cockroaches fight like a cockroach; they kill two of ours twenty of theirs should die. Is such a process barbaric? Yes. But then again, war is barbaric; let's play to win. Let's line up all suspected terrorist insurgents in Iraq and make them walk the roads they mined with IEDs...

Until we decide to lower ourselves to the level of our opponents in this war, such atrocities as these dead American soldiers will become common place; then enemy is winning the hearts and minds with brutality; we need to address the enemy with like terms and methods.

If we don't, this war will go on without end.

Cosmoline
June 20, 2006, 02:44 PM
That would be totally pointless. Most of the detainees in gitmo have bupkus to do with Iraq. We know where the hajis are. They're concentrated in certain towns and neighborhoods in the triangle, and they fan out from these safe zones. They've made it quite clear They will keep on killing until they're stopped.

espanola
June 20, 2006, 02:51 PM
Pray for those families.
Grief makes people say some crazy things. (To be charitable, I'm going to chalk it up to grief.)
I saw the uncle of the Houston soldier interviewed by Matt Lauer on tv this morning.
The uncle essentially blamed the government and the army saying we reacted too slowly. He said we should have offered a $100 mil ransom (yes, that's $100,000,000) for the soldiers and offered to release all of the mujahadin that he said the Iraqi government is going to release anyway. I don't like Lauer, but he did at least question the wisdom of doing that.
Obviously, the uncle isn't thinking straight...However, I'm just waiting for the dems to pick up the drumbeat...

K-Romulus
June 20, 2006, 03:05 PM
Therefore, when fighting cockroaches fight like a cockroach; they kill two of ours twenty of theirs should die. Is such a process barbaric? Yes. But then again, war is barbaric; let's play to win. Let's line up all suspected terrorist insurgents in Iraq and make them walk the roads they mined with IEDs...

The Russians tried that, and all it did was make the "insurgents" get whipped into a higher frenzy of "righteousness against the crusaders."

Also didn't work for the Soviets in Afghanistan.

espanola
June 20, 2006, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Therefore, when fighting cockroaches fight like a cockroach; they kill two of ours twenty of theirs should die. Is such a process barbaric? Yes. But then again, war is barbaric; let's play to win. Let's line up all suspected terrorist insurgents in Iraq and make them walk the roads they mined with IEDs...

The Russians tried that, and all it did was make the "insurgents" get whipped into a higher frenzy of "righteousness against the crusaders."

Also didn't work for the Soviets in Afghanistan.




No, but it worked great for Black Jack Pershing and us in the Philippines...

71Commander
June 20, 2006, 03:12 PM
just might be the time to get Medieval...


The enemy already has.:mad: Time to make a parking lot.:fire:

greg700
June 20, 2006, 03:39 PM
RIP

One of Many
June 20, 2006, 03:52 PM
Why are checkpoints manned with only three lightly armed coalition warriors, when the terrorists are known to operate in larger squads, and use RPGs as well as heavy weapons?

Perhaps we should allow Murtha, Kerry and their ilk the opportunity to experience first hand the nature of the conflict in Iraq, by posting them to a checkpoint and not letting them leave until they have survived an attack.

davec
June 20, 2006, 03:55 PM
Geeze, we invade a country, over throw its ruler, station men with guns through the towns and cities and the people who live there attack and kill forces from the invading army. go figure that.

SomeKid
June 20, 2006, 04:04 PM
I have been advocating this for years.

Kill. Them. All.

DonP
June 20, 2006, 04:36 PM
"Geeze, we invade a country, over throw its ruler, station men with guns through the towns and cities and the people who live there attack and kill forces from the invading army. go figure that."

Michael Moore appreciates your insight and support.

davec
June 20, 2006, 05:18 PM
Whats a fat movie maker have to do with anything?

If a bunch of Iraqi soldiers came to your town, drove tanks through the streets shooting at cars who got to close, blew up your neighbors houses with bombs from the sky with no warning, terrorized families by kicked in doors looking for suspects, what would you do?

I don't get the shock and outrage at people who are defending their homeland from foreigners with guns.

Maybe if we heeded the founders advice and minded our own business and avoided foreign adventures. Pfc. Menchaca and Pfc. Tucker would be alive today.

This failed Wilsonian foreign policy should of been left on the dust heap of history long ago. It was failed and backwards in 1917, and its failed and backwards in 2006.

America goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. - John Quincy Adams

Shame that so much wisdom of the founders has been uttery lost and forgotten today.

cbsbyte
June 20, 2006, 05:53 PM
Davec,

You analogy is wrong. It is not the local citizens in Iraq that are doing the fighting but foregin elements that are coming from Syria, and Iran. Yes, some local Iraqis have joined the fight but in large most of the insurgent fighters in Iraq are foregin. When we first invaded Iraq in 2003, many Iraqi soliders shed there uniforms, and faught guerilla warfare, but most of them have been pushed out of the picture by foregin jihaist. Now you may not want to believe it but it is true. Do a seach on the net. Though I agree with you we should not be in Iraq, or to that matter Afganistan, and the Wilsonian policy is deeply flawed.

engineer151515
June 20, 2006, 05:55 PM
Shame that so much wisdom of the founders has been uttery lost and forgotten today

Since 1945, it has been acknowledged that isolationism will not protect America. Indeed, isolationism was President Wilson's foreign diplomacy.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/wilsonadministration.htm


Vestiges of the isolationist policy also delayed Roosevelt's entry of the US into WWII - at a time when Hitler was weaker.

Be grateful indeed that we did not follow it.

jondar
June 20, 2006, 06:20 PM
Yesterday before the bodies were found, my local paper ran a report that an Iraqui farmer had witnessed the kidnapping. He described how it had happened and when asked if he knew where the two boys had been taken, he was quoted as saying, "I don't know and don't care. Whatever they get, they have coming. It's their fault that my life is so dificult." I wonder just how widespread this attitude is in Iraq.

davec
June 20, 2006, 06:35 PM
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=9f281b30-e6fb-42a5-8aab-c31bfab503cc&k=46472&p=2


Ahmed Khalaf Falah, a farmer who said he witnessed the abduction of the Americans on Friday, said three Humvees were manning a U.S. checkpoint near Youssifiyah, about 20 kilometres south of Baghdad, when they came under fire from many directions.

Two Humvees chased after the assailants, but the third was attacked before it could move, he told AP. Seven masked gunmen, including one carrying what appeared to be a heavy machine gun, killed the driver of the third vehicle, then took the other two soldiers captive, Falah said.

Falah said tensions were high in the area as U.S. troops raided some houses and detained men in looking for the missing soldiers. He said the Americans were setting up checkpoints on all roads leading into the area of the attack and helicopters were hovering at low altitudes.

A Youssifiyah resident, who said his house was searched by U.S. soldiers Sunday afternoon, said the Americans were using translators to offer $100,000 US for information leading to those who took the soldiers.

The U.S. military denied a reward had been offered. It said only that coalition and Iraqi forces were continuing the search and "will continue to use every resource available."

The man in Youssifiyah said he would not co-operate.

"I will not do it even if they pay one million dollars," he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he feared retribution. "They deserve all that they are facing . . . we are living a hard life because of them."

308win
June 20, 2006, 07:42 PM
We know who the new AQ in Iraq leader is and presumably whom and where his family are located. His family should just start disappearing, no publicity, no gloating. When you wrestle with pigs you both get dirty but there is no rule that says the pig has to enjoy it.:cuss:

Leatherneck
June 20, 2006, 07:48 PM
I think it's time to get hard.

"No better friend; no worse enemy." Clear enough?

Mr. JDAM, meet Mr. neighborhood.

TC

JesseJames
June 20, 2006, 08:29 PM
This is such a bad generalization but I have to state it.

It seems that we have McClellan's for generals instead of Grant's.

Those insurgents did it right though. I can't help but admire how they pulled off the mission. A hit and run attack and divide and conquer. Classic. Seemingly pulled off flawlessly. They are getting better. Much better.
I figure all the dumb ones have been killed off and the smarter, savvy ones are learning how to operate on a low-level attrition operational strategy knowing how, where, and when patrols go out and basically acting as SOG's on coalition force checkpoints.
As for the brutal way the soldiers were killed. That's just war. Believe me, there will be payback. And if the NCO's don't get a strong handle on their grunts, we're going to see some awful stuff.

Leatherneck
June 20, 2006, 08:33 PM
I can't help but admire how they pulled off the mission. A hit and run attack and divide and conquer. Yeah. Me too. Now let's blow 'em up.:fire:

TC

longeyes
June 20, 2006, 09:43 PM
I feel the way Robert De Niro did when he was forced to play Russian Roulette in The Deer Hunter.:fire:

shooter94
June 20, 2006, 10:01 PM
Ever since the Soviet Union went down the tubes, we've been on a crusade to reduce our Navy, reduce our Airforce, downsize troop strength in the USMC and Army. While we're doing that...lets leave Subic, and Clark AFB, pull out of Okinawa.

When I got out of Highschool in 1983, troop strength for the USMC was 400,000. I hear now it's one fourth of that...

We all know what happened to our Military during the Clinton administration...Somalia comes to mind. Base closures were the "in" thing to do with the left. Now...here comes Rumsfeld with his continuation of Clinton's policies of base closures.

It's been four years now...the model of South East Asian low intensity warfare is not working. WW2 was over in five years, fighting world wide on two fronts. It's a tragedy what has been done to our Military...it's been reduced to a shadow of it's former self while Washington can't figure out why we haven't pacified Iraq and Afghanistan.

Make no mistake about it...we in deep trouble here. Putin just stated a month ago the Cold war was back on! They're in a Military/Economic alliance with the Communist Chinese...despite Washington says they are our friends. The Russians posses the inovation for new weapons systems, while the Chinese bring cash for R&D into the picture.

Bush only has a few years left in office...with his weird brand of Conservatism he's managed to alienate the entire Nation against himself. The Nations equates him with the RNC as one entity. It's seriously looking like the Democrats will take both Houses in November...and we all know what that means.

longeyes
June 20, 2006, 10:09 PM
Bush only has a few years left in office...with his weird brand of Conservatism he's managed to alienate the entire Nation against himself. The Nations equates him with the RNC as one entity. It's seriously looking like the Democrats will take both Houses in November...and we all know what that means.

Don't assume the Dems are taking control.

And don't assume Bush is in any way a "conservative." The only thing he wants to conserve is dynastic power.

Kim
June 20, 2006, 10:29 PM
Davec======If I lived in a country under a dictator or totalitarian government if I had any sense I would welcome an invading force that came with guns to take out the government. Why do you think you would not. Unless you are on the side of the bad guys. I realize many in Iraq were supportors of Saddam who ruled the majority with the support of the minority. I have no problem that France helped us win the Revolution.. I can't help it that those in France today are mostly lefties who forget we saved their butts. I can almost forgive them for their ignorance as they are indoctrinated Commies and its child the Socialists. I have a bad feeling these guys were severely abused. I just hope they were dead when the worst was done. O'Reiley said he would not describe the brutality in whole but did mention their eyes were poked out and many parts of their bodies were butchered. Remember what these people do to demean the men they kill. They stuff the victums mouth with their genitals.. I saw some pictures on the web of this from Afganistian. They do this before they are dead.:cuss:
A

ArmedAmerican
June 20, 2006, 10:47 PM
<<< Mcgarrydst wrote:


There are no WMDS in Iraq. No reason for us to still be there.The Iraqi people are excercising "democracy" by killing American occupiers. This is all so pointless. Bush has the blood of these men on his hands

>>>

My reply: "The Iraqi people"? And you compare terrorism to democracy? Now I have heard everything. I beg to differ-- if you really care about what the Iraqi people think, then why don't you listen to some of them?...

--------------------------

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Thursday, June 08, 2006
ZARQAWI KILLED!!
"Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has just announced the death of terror leader Abu Musa'ab al-Zarqawi in a joint press conference with Ambassador Khalil Zad.

Al-Maliki explained that Zarqawi (and 7 of his aides) was killed in an air raid in the little town of Hibhib 8 km north of Baquba after receiving tips from residents in the area.

CONGRATULATIONS TO IRAQ, CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WHOLE WORLD ON THIS VICTORY.

Hibhib is a small town several kilometers to the northwest of Baquba and most of its people are from the Azzawi tribes.
It was quite visible lately that Hibhib became a place for intense terror activity, especially after the phenomenon of severed heads appeared. Severed heads of civilian Iraqis were found twice in fruit boxes in and around Hibhib; a terrible crime that shocked Iraqis.
Also a few days ago 19 passengers, mostly students were murdered in cold blood just north of Hibhib which indicated that a seriously bloody terror cell was in this area.

There had been several reports about Zarqawi fleeing Anbar to Diyala after the tribes in Ramadi turned against al-Qaeda but obviously, Diyala and its suburbs and Iraqi tribes were not willing to endorse the head chopping criminal..."

Posted by Omar @ 11:45

------------------------
This latest atrocity is claimed to be "in retaliation" for the killing of Zarqawi. Uh-huh. We take out a murderous thug that no one likes, and Al-Qaida tortures and kills 2 PFCs. We should have just left Z alone and everything would be fine, yup...

shooter94
June 20, 2006, 10:59 PM
"Don't assume the Dems are taking control.

And don't assume Bush is in any way a "conservative." The only thing he wants to conserve is dynastic power."

---------------------------------------------

Agreed...Bush is not my idea of a Conservative. I'm hoping you're right about the Dems not seizing control...

gometika
June 20, 2006, 11:22 PM
The main problem here is that the powers that be are thinking that we are fighting a civilize enemy, they're not, these are still barbarians who've failed to evolve over thousands of years of evolution.

There never was, is or will ever be a way to ever tame a dog with loose bolts. You either put it down to stop it from contaminating the gene pool or let it go berserk and cause damage to civilization.

"We are at war, Anakin"

This is a war between the human race and the primitive race. Politicos seem to be playing both sides to advance their greedy and selfish agendas.

shooter94
June 21, 2006, 12:53 AM
One thing Bush is doing is he's looking for a replacement for Iranian oil. This is exactly what we need...to get off of Middle Eastern oil. As soon as we do that, we need to contain&control the Middle East. Cut them off from the West completely. No M.E. Nationals out...and cut off immigration from there to the West, period.

We need to get control of our own borders...the immediate concern is National security. Secondary is illegal colonization from the third world south of the 33rd parallel.

The solutions are clear...the question is does the American public have enough intelligence and fortitude to acomplish it. We all know the answer dont we?

Hayward Juhbuzzoff
June 21, 2006, 09:41 AM
To comment on a couple things said on this thread...

1. Less than one in ten of the insurgents is a foreign fighter. It is an Iraqi insurgency.

and

2. 80 percent of the Iraqis want us gone.

bg
June 21, 2006, 09:47 AM
In the meantime, perhaps a military commander such as
this person who understood what a match was really made
for would have an answer for this "triangle". That and and
an updated version of the M9A1-7. Not to say our military
on the ground leaders are not sound, but one has to admit
when they heard this fellow and his group were coming
their way, knees started knocking. Enough with today's
mister nice guy tactic..


http://ngeorgia.com/images/shermanw.jpg

Those who help us help them get their Nation going, get treated well and with respect. For those who oppose the change that needs to come in Iraq and try and kill our coaltion troops as well as the Iraqi general population who want things settled down and us to leave, lets bring out the BIG hammer

As far as our troops both here and lost, Lord bless each and every single one of them.

Camp David
June 21, 2006, 10:49 AM
Hayward: Your initial comment was inaccurate so I decided to respond...

To comment on a couple things said on this thread... 1. Less than one in ten of the insurgents is a foreign fighter. It is an Iraqi insurgency.

See Newsweek, "Unmasking the Insurgents" Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6885867/site/newsweek/):
Most are foreign fighters from Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

See MSNBC, "Who are the foreign fighters in Iraq?" Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8293410/):
An NBC News analysis finds 55 percent hail from Saudi Arabia

I could post several more. Indeed, most checks of insurgents reveal foreign national identities in Iraq show that these terrorists are not Iraqis.

SSN Vet
June 21, 2006, 11:15 AM
wrt. sending in Sherman or Grant......those guys would be pulled from the field and sent to a courts martial in todays military. We're obviously more interested in avoiding bad P.R. than winning the war.

OBTW, they'd do the same to Patton, as there were two proven cases of GI's killing German soldiers after they surrendered during the invasion of Sicily. Before the invasion Patton gave several speaches to the troops and said he was interested in killing German soldiers and that taking them prisoner was a waste of resources. He managed to personally get the whole invading army wound up and fightin' mad. Heaven forbid we actually tell our soldiers to "kill the enemy".

Shooter: Why would Bush be looking to replace Iranian oil? The U.S. hasn't bought a drop of oil from Iran in years (40 yrs?), And OBTW, I think you've been watching to much t.v. news. I'd say 95% of the people I hang with would gladly put Bush back in office for a 3rd term, if that were possible. Can you name one other political leader who has the sack to do what he is convinced is the right thing to do, regardless what the H@%% the Europeans think. T.V. news went on and on about how the Brits were going to toss Tony Blair because of the Iraq war. He was handilly re-elected.

Re. the quote from Iraqi farmer Ahmed Khalaf Falah....obviously he represents a portion of the Iraqi people who do not value freedom, nor are willing to sacrifice all to obtain it.

Kim said "If I lived in a country under a dictator or totalitarian government if I had any sense I would welcome an invading force that came with guns to take out the government."

You're missing the whole "infidel" thing Kim.....many muslims would rather live as a slave to another muslim, than to live free with any kind of association with infidels.

Kentak
June 21, 2006, 12:30 PM
Kim said, If I lived in a country under a dictator or totalitarian government if I had any sense I would welcome an invading force that came with guns to take out the government. Why do you think you would not. Unless you are on the side of the bad guys.

These are people who live in a region where notions of "freedom and democracy" are little understood abstract notions. For centuries these people have lived under one tyrant or "benevolent" dictator or another. One foreign invader has been replaced by another, and then another. For most of them, life is harder and more dangerous now than it was before 2003. It's totally understandable to me that Mohammed Six-Pack is less than overjoyed by the coalition occupation.

This doesn't mean I'm for cut and run. But, I supported getting into this war because I was stupid enough to believe politicians with their own strategic goals that this was about an imminent threat to the US because of WMDs that were about to be handed to AQ.

If we buy into this messianic obsession about spreading American style democracy around the world by force, well, then we've got a lot more Iraqs in store for us.

K

Hayward Juhbuzzoff
June 21, 2006, 01:10 PM
See Newsweek, "Unmasking the Insurgents" Here:
Most are foreign fighters from Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

See MSNBC, "Who are the foreign fighters in Iraq?" Here:
An NBC News analysis finds 55 percent hail from Saudi Arabia

I could post several more. Indeed, most checks of insurgents reveal foreign national identities in Iraq show that these terrorists are not Iraqis

Camp David, your first link talks about the percentage of "suicide bombers" that are foreign, not the insurgents as a whole. The second link breaks down the nationalities of foreign fighters, but again does not put the number of foreign fighters in the context of the whole insurgency.

Here is a link - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

longeyes
June 21, 2006, 01:26 PM
The people who run the U.S. military today are more concerned with eating their own than annihilating the enemy. Indicting our own for murder matters more than the atrocities of the other side. It's excellent political theater, USSR-style.

Camp David
June 21, 2006, 01:33 PM
Here is a link - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

While the article you cite, from The Center for Strategic & International Studies, and reported in the CSM begs for validity, I will stand with CENTCOM's determination of foreign terrorists as insurgents in Iraq, which has been widely reported by soldiers themselves. CSIS has a perceived bias against the war.

HankB
June 21, 2006, 02:05 PM
wrt. sending in Sherman or Grant......those guys would be pulled from the field and sent to a courts martial in todays military. We're obviously more interested in avoiding bad P.R. than winning the war. +1 . . . it's bad enough facing a foreign enemy, but after a firefight there are US JAG lawyers after you too . . . and those you're not allowed to shoot. :( I'd say 95% of the people I hang with would gladly put Bush back in office for a 3rd term, if that were possible. -1 . . . Bush's popularity with people I hang with is 'way down, thanks to immigration, spending, increased bureaucracy, and, yes, the PC crapola going on in Iraq.

JesseJames
June 21, 2006, 02:25 PM
It is hard to think how an anachronism like Sherman would be perceived today.
Even McClellan commented that Sherman was "gone in the head".
Let's see, General McClellan gets fired by Lincoln, then joins the Democratic Party and runs against him on a platform of letting the South secede.
Imagine what kind of world we'd live in if that happened.
Sherman famously butted heads with fellow officers, politicians, and the press.
Even after all that he still did his duty to the Republic. After the war people wanted to make him President, but he flat out refused commenting that he'd rather do time at Sing Sing penitentiary and come out a better man than go to Washington. He blamed the war a great deal on the politicians anyway. Also to an unbridled press.
One can learn a tremendous amount from this man, and I am ashamed of my public education for not introducing me to him earlier on.

bg
June 21, 2006, 02:59 PM
Well as least they got it right when it came to naming
a certain U.S. WWII tank ! Sorry to get off topic, this is
about the murders in Iraq.

longeyes
June 21, 2006, 02:59 PM
For the Left everything about America is anachronistic.

Hayward Juhbuzzoff
June 21, 2006, 03:21 PM
While the article you cite, from The Center for Strategic & International Studies, and reported in the CSM begs for validity, I will stand with CENTCOM's determination of foreign terrorists as insurgents in Iraq, which has been widely reported by soldiers themselves. CSIS has a perceived bias against the war.

Abizaid has said that the foreign fighters are a small fraction of the insurgency. The above listed organization has member names like Nunn, Scowcroft, Kissinger, Bryzinski (sp?), so while skepticism is always appropriate, I wouldn't say that the article "begs for validity."

goosegunner
June 21, 2006, 06:28 PM
The enemy already has. Time to make a parking lot.
Kill. Them. All.
...His family should just start disappearing,...

I had written a long text, but "think twice, post once" stopped me.
But it had to do with the words "final solution", "lebensraum", and what my grandfather told me about why he hated the german occupants.

Linux&Gun Guy
June 21, 2006, 06:38 PM
Remember:

When we talk about taking back our nation from an invading army its Good but when other people do it - EVIL.

No one likes an invading army on their land - these Iraqi fighters have more guts then most Americans would in a similar situation I think - they are willing to do what it takes to take back their land and culture and are not scared to die for their cause.

Remember what that Japanese guy said about "a rifle behind every blade of grass" making America impossible to take? Well they have rifles AND explosives.

Malice
June 21, 2006, 06:40 PM
GEOMETIKA-

I would like to respectfully disagree with your totaly bigoted and racist position.

I am sure my fiance Jenn would take issue with your words. She is racialy arab and pseudo-muslim by tradition.

I am sure my best friend Sara would take issue with you too. She is a naturalized US citizen Iranian by birth, racialy Persian and a practicing Muslim.

In fact...

I take issue with your words. You are the closed-minded barbarian, and I am ashamed to share this forum with you.

shooter94
June 21, 2006, 06:48 PM
"Shooter: Why would Bush be looking to replace Iranian oil? The U.S. hasn't bought a drop of oil from Iran in years (40 yrs?), And OBTW, I think you've been watching to much t.v. news. I'd say 95% of the people I hang with would gladly put Bush back in office for a 3rd term, if that were possible. Can you name one other political leader who has the sack to do what he is convinced is the right thing to do, regardless what the H@%% the Europeans think. T.V. news went on and on about how the Brits were going to toss Tony Blair because of the Iraq war. He was handilly re-elected."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wont despute you on domestic use of Iranian oil...because I dont have the facts. I hardly watch TV news, dont have the time.

I wont despute you or the people you hang with on Bush and why you support him. I'm not a "Moderate," I'm farthest to to right as one can possibly get. I support Bush to a lesser degree than you do...meaning that there was nobody else remotely qualified to take on the job as President. Kerry was not an option so who else was left? I voted for Bush out of default.

The only question I have about Iraq is why haven't we won yet?

Cosmoline
June 21, 2006, 07:12 PM
We can either leave now or we can go in and destroy the hotbeds. GW is right about one thing. If we pull out and the fundis take over, we will be their target and the next explosions will be right here in the USA. For better or worse Iraq has become the main battleground and test of wills between radical Islam and the US.

shooter94
June 21, 2006, 07:15 PM
"We can either leave now or we can go in and destroy the hotbeds. GW is right about one thing. If we pull out and the fundis take over, we will be their target and the next explosions will be right here in the USA. For better or worse Iraq has become the main battleground and test of wills between radical Islam and the US."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed...it's time to beef up the numbers and take care of it once and for all.

Don Gwinn
June 21, 2006, 08:13 PM
Any more racism and this thread goes bye-bye.

crazed_ss
June 21, 2006, 08:43 PM
Some of the replies in this thread are ridiculous.

Yea.. that's Nuke Iraq.. great idea. :uhoh:

The thing about this "war" is we're not fighting a conventional army. I'm sure the Army and Marines are all for taking the gloves off and dealing death blows to the enemy. Unfortunately, there's no "front line".. It's hard to even know who the enemy is until they start shooting.

Sure we could lock the place down and start getting tough with everyone, including the civilians, but that will only make things worse. Any civilians who were on our side might jump ship once troops that kicking in their doors and interrogating their families.

gometika
June 21, 2006, 10:12 PM
To anyone who took offense to my last post, I apologize sincerely, that wasn't my intention. I was referring to the enemy/insurgents. The enemy's barbaric and primitive manner of conducting a war is unacceptable and unforgiveable in this day and age.

Cosmoline
June 22, 2006, 12:09 AM
We do need to stop talking about the "war on terror." There is no such thing, and in fact it's an impossibility. The war is between us and radical Islam. We must destroy it or it will surely destroy us. That will entail killing a lot of people, including a lot of women and children. But trust me when the time comes they won't hesitate to slaughter each and every one of your grandchildren. To call them animals is an insult to animals. Radical Islam is not a religion of peace--it is a terminal mental illness.

Malice
June 22, 2006, 12:41 AM
Apology accepted, I suppose.

In the situation, I suppose it is easy to charactarize "brown" people as subhuman because of the subhuman things the enemy in Iraq is doing.

As Cosmo pointed out, we are at war with an idea, an attitude, a belief. The belief that anyone who does not think like "us" need to die.

It doesnt matter what form it takes. Nazism, Communism, Radical Islam. It will always be here in some form or another. I am confident that we will do what it takes, sooner or later, and in another 10 years a new group of crazies will pop up and the cycle will begin again.

It is the way of the world, I suppose.

shooter94
June 22, 2006, 01:00 AM
http://www.memritv.org/

Check out this site...it's an eye opener.

cz75bdneos22
June 24, 2006, 12:36 AM
i'm getting sick...:barf:

Army Pfc. Kristian Menchaca 23 yrs old, B company, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry regiment, 101st Airborne Division...

K.I.A Yusufiyah, Iraq

Te Acuerdas...La comunidad esta con tu familia ahoy.

71Commander
June 24, 2006, 06:04 AM
-1 . . . Bush's popularity with people I hang with is 'way down


You need to choose better friends.;)

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