7.62 Nagant questions


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BillinNH
June 20, 2006, 08:27 AM
Does anyone know of a moderately priced source for 7.62 Nagant ammo? AIM has it at $39/box which is not worth it to me. Is reloadable brass available? Can I shoot another caliber in the gun (e.g., 32ACP)? I hear there is a cylinder for other calibers but don't know if the gas seal property works for anything other than 7.62 Nagant.

I haven't bought the gun yet, want to see if it is practical to shoot. My main interest is in the unique gas seal feature.

Thanks.

Bill

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kid_couteau
June 20, 2006, 11:23 AM
Hi

I do not know of any cheap nagant ammo but you can buy dies for it from Lee and brass from Grafs and son.

If you buy the Lee dies make sure you call Lee and tell them you need the bullet seating stem for the Nagant brass because the one they originally put in there is for using 32-20 brass. Without it you cant seat the bullet far enough for proper crimp.

I have been using bullets that I cast myself and sized to .308 and they work ok. Havent looked for accuracy yet just safety.

I am using load data for 32 S&W and it works ok. Probably a weak load for this gun but it is safe. (disclaimer: I am not recommending you use this data. It works for me. If you use it you are on your own.)

I shot mine at 50 yards and did not get pin point accuracy but then again I was sorta stretching my expectations.:)

Later
Kid

Stainz
June 20, 2006, 04:05 PM
The proper 1895 Nagant ammo, 7.62x38r, is actually only currently available in two somewhat anemic forms - the Russian 'Target' load that makes 590 fps and Fiocchi 98gr RN that makes 674 fps. Reportedly Wolf will release some soon - maybe Hornady... great rumors, anyway!

The proper case is tapered, very similar to an M1 Carbine's case. I have checked mine by slugging them with a lead DEWC to find the bore at .310-.311", proper for .312" lead - or .311-.312" clad. So - .32 S&W/S&WL/H&RM bullets work... loaded ammo will load into the chambers - loosely - and fire - and bulge their cases, the MagTech .32 S&WL's often split. The 100gr JHP .32 H&RM's I used from Georgia Arms were too stout, spit terribly. My modified .32-20's I size in an M1 Carbine sizer, then load with .32-20 dies, work great - and the empties mostly fall out. All of the previous examples require the SA-style ejector rod to shove them out of the chambers. The Ruskie and Fiocchi ammo's are it for true gas-sealing Nagant ammo, too... the others actually spit a bit of gas, etc, from the closed inverted b/c gap.

Still, it's a fun revolver - neat piece of Victorian engineering. If you carefully clean yours, and lightly lube it, you may just get the SA and DA pulls down near twenty pounds, too. No kidding! See the 1895 Nagant forum on gunboards.com for lots more info - including how to take it apart. Get one - or more!

Stainz

RON in PA
June 20, 2006, 04:10 PM
Either reload and the info from the above two posts is excellent or shoot 32 long. With the latter you will get bulged cases but the guns function fine and I get good accuracy.

BillinNH
June 20, 2006, 06:47 PM
Lots of useful replies, thanks everybody.

Let's see if I've got this right: I can shoot 32-20 and 32 long and they fireform into 7.62 Nagant? Can't be that simple.

About the trigger, I've heard they're really terrible!

But I like the funky period look and the technology and I imagine it's a fun gun to have. I guess you load really light, sort of like you had a Nambu.

Bill

Ron James
June 20, 2006, 08:06 PM
No, no one said you can shoot 32-20 in your Nagant. I don't even know if they will fit but they are much higher pressure than the Nagant was designed for. Go back and reREAD the post.

eastwood44mag
June 20, 2006, 08:18 PM
MidwayUSA sells brass (I don't recall whose it is) and dies. Beware: RCBS dies in that caliber are over $100 for the set, so don't expect it to be a cheap shooter.

kid_couteau
June 20, 2006, 08:50 PM
The Lee dies I have were only around 20 bucks not bad at all and they work good as long as you remember to get the seating stem.

See ya
Kid

aaronrkelly
June 21, 2006, 03:30 AM
I have fired many hundreds of rounds of .32S&W Long thru mine - works great. The cases dont get stuck and so far no ill side effect.

White Horseradish
June 21, 2006, 03:38 AM
32-20 will most certainly not fit a Nagant. The Nagant case is evenly tapered, where 32-20 has a shoulder.

SA trigger is not bad. DA is usable only in acute distress. There are ways to tune it, but you need decent metalworking skill to do it, since it involves stuff like filing leaf springs.

BillinNH
June 21, 2006, 08:04 AM
<No, no one said you can shoot 32-20 in your Nagant. I don't even know if they will fit but they are much higher pressure than the Nagant was designed for. Go back and reREAD the post.>

I went by Stainz's post:
<My modified .32-20's I size in an M1 Carbine sizer, then load with .32-20 dies, work great - and the empties mostly fall out.>

But anyway I get the message, no 32-20. Thanks.

But 32 S&Wlong is OK? Does the gas seal still work? Will the cases be reloadable?

Bill

kid_couteau
June 21, 2006, 08:56 AM
Hi Folks

BillinNH It has been said in many different places that you can use 32 S&W long and short but if you are planning on reloading I suggest you just spend the money to buy the dies and proper brass for the gun. Then you know it will work.

Nothing against the others, I have done some "wildcatting" myself but since you are new to the gun I suggest you stay with the right equipment.

Later
Kid

BillinNH
June 21, 2006, 11:34 AM
<BillinNH It has been said in many different places that you can use 32 S&W long and short but if you are planning on reloading I suggest you just spend the money to buy the dies and proper brass for the gun. Then you know it will work.>

I think you are right. I don't reload 32 short or long so since I have to get dies anyway I might as well do it right.

Thanks.

Bill

kid_couteau
June 21, 2006, 12:24 PM
Here ya go

Grafs and sons

Dies
http://www.grafs.com/metallic/product/7190

$21.19

Brass
http://www.grafs.com/metallic/product/18170

100 pieces $23.39


If you are interested.

Kid

1557
June 21, 2006, 04:08 PM
Stainz's post is right on. I do like the revolver tho,and it's a great co nversation piece. How about that railroad spike of a firing pin?:eek:

Jim K
June 21, 2006, 04:21 PM
I got the .32 ACP cylinder and reamed it to .32 H&R Magnum. Now I can shoot .32 ACP, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32 H&R Magnum. Of course none of these can take advantage of the gas sealing feature.

Jim

BillinNH
June 21, 2006, 08:44 PM
<http://www.grafs.com/metallic/product/18170>

Those reviews of the Graf brass are really discouraging.

<It's a great co nversation piece. >

Have you ever seen the suppressor that was built for it? I really want one of those.

Bill

RON in PA
June 22, 2006, 02:26 AM
Starline intentionaly makes their Nagant brass short because when they tried original length brass they had many case neck splits. You do give up the gas seal with the shortened brass.

jrfoxx
June 22, 2006, 03:43 AM
The preiviously mentioned 7.62x38r Russian target ammo can be purchased here: http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammo.html It goes for $14.95 per 40 rd box. Not a bad price at all in my opinion.

Stainz
June 22, 2006, 08:21 AM
BillinNH,

My 'modified .32-20's I size in an M1 Carbine sizer' refers to what I must do to my brass before using the seat/crimp die of the 1895 Nagant set by Lee which I use. The modification involves taking a little off of the rim OD and a little off it's thickness.

The OD problem is so the rims won't have to be forced into position against the cylinder's notch step, which cants the cartridge. Ammo should 'drop' in. I remove ~ 24 mils (.024") by chucking them in a collet on a Taig micro-lathe. The headstamp thickness could be corrected by thinning the breech block by 5-10 mils so it will fit up against the thicker case rims - but I elected to keep it stock for future proper ammo use. Thinning the headstamp involved a few swipes over 320-600 grit Si-C paper on a flat. A spare breech block could be 'adapted'.

Yeah, it's a lot of work to modify 300 cases... and you'll rip those rims off if you use the steel Nagant sizer with little lube... the nearly identical Lee carbide M1 Carbine works well. My easiest load involves a Meister 100gr .312" DEWC crimped on it's top groove... neat round - and from the folks at Dillon, via the 'Blue Press. These rounds fall out... believe me, Ruskie target, Fiocchi, .32 H&RM, and even .32 S&WL - you'll need to push them out.

Great advice re the target ammo - try some before you spend the $ on reloading goodies - it is fun, if anemic, ammo.

Stainz

joab
June 22, 2006, 08:42 AM
I bought two boxes of the Russian ammo from SOG but have not shot it yet.

A reloader friend tells me that, depending on the primer, they may be reloadable.

As far as more conventional alternatives, this is from InterOrdnance's website
Our tests show that these revolvers will work perfectly with caliber ".32 H&R Magnum" jacketed hollow point ammunition as loaded by Federal Cartridge Co. Their item number is C32HRB. The revolver will also fire caliber ".32 Smith & Wesson" and caliber ".32 Smith & Wesson Long" ammunition but we do not recommend it since the use of lead bullets will lead to fouling and cylinder binding. We do not recommend the use of any lead bullet in these three calibers but if jacketed bullets are available, then they should be okay. Caliber ".32 ACP" may work in some revolvers but occasional misfires may be expected.

Paperpunchr
June 24, 2006, 02:46 PM
I've gotten some Nagant ammo from Reed's Ammo and Research, it seems a bit more potent than either the fiocchi or old Soviet target ammo, but I don't have a speed trap to tell for sure. It costs less than Fiocchi, but more than surplus. Seems to me the russian surplus target ammo is a bit undersized in the casing...had the rim slide up into the chamber once or twice! Reeds uses new Graf brass with proper Nagant headstamp and the gas seal works, while if I remember the Russian surplus target was shorter, no seal. It works fine, if you're not into or able to reload your own, and less than Fiocchi's monopoly pricing.

www.reedsammo.com should get you there.

Doug

moph759fl
June 24, 2006, 03:49 PM
I would suggest that you go to "bersatalk.com" look up a member by the name KIMIGIRL, she is the Expert on that rifle, lock, stock and barrel.

joab
June 24, 2006, 05:11 PM
she is the Expert on that rifle, lock, stock and barrel.It's a pistol

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