Never seen this one before!


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Onty
June 20, 2006, 06:59 PM
What kind of revolver is this; top break S&W with something that looks like cylinder release button :eek: ? What is the purpose of the button? See http://armsbid.com/images-ks6a/6A-1075.jpg , http://armsbid.com/ks6a-1000.htm .

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SouthpawShootr
June 20, 2006, 07:19 PM
Apparently that is also a cylinder release. Supica & Nahas states that the .38 Double Action Perfected Model was the only S&W model to have both a topstrap release AND a side thumb release. Production figures were approximately 60,000 BTW. First one I've seen also. I have no idea what their reasoning was behind this rather peculiar design. Maybe they were trying to please everybody.

isp2605
June 20, 2006, 07:41 PM
"I have no idea what their reasoning was behind this rather peculiar design. "

It was intended to give it tighter lock up with the tip of the cylinder pin locking in too.

SouthpawShootr
June 20, 2006, 09:52 PM
Now that you mention it, I can see where it would give a tighter lockup. Still, must have been a bear to reload with any degree of speed. I like threads like this. I had largely ignored the topbreak section in Supica & Nahas to this point. Maybe I need to read through it.

isp2605
June 20, 2006, 10:15 PM
"Still, must have been a bear to reload with any degree of speed."

Yup, sure looks like it would be a pain. The old boys supposedly liked the ease which top breaks could be reloaded, compared to Colts, while on a galloping horse. I suspect these double locking system would have made it a real aggravation. Looks like it would be a 2 handed operation. Never played with one.

SouthpawShootr
June 20, 2006, 10:27 PM
The old boys supposedly liked the ease which top breaks could be reloaded, compared to Colts, while on a galloping horse. I suspect these double locking system would have made it a real aggravation. Looks like it would be a 2 handed operation.

They'd certainly have to learn to drive with their knees. That and their horse would have to be able to read it. If I'm not mistaken, US Calvary mounts were trained for this. Supposed to have been pretty good at it.

Wouldn't mind seeing one of these guns. I'm sure they're probably worth a good bit of dough so I doubt I would mess with it. Maybe get the owner to demo it for me.

Bullet Bob
June 20, 2006, 10:36 PM
I've been looking for one of these for a long time for a shooter. The few I've seen have either been too much, or as in this case, I'm too late.

Old Fuff
June 20, 2006, 11:57 PM
S&W's well known competitor in Hartford CT. ah... well suggested, that a bad guy who was being covered by a good guy with a S&W top-break might put the G.G. in a bad fix if the B.G. reached over, grasp the barrel latch on the G.G.'s revolver and yanked up, opening the barrel and spilling cartridges all over. S&W countered with the Perfected Model that had two latches. So much for the Bad Guy's tricks.

At the same time they incorporated a lot of lockwork from their .32 1903 Hand Ejector into the "Perfected, which made it less expensive and less likely to beak small parts and springs then former top-break revolvers.

It was the second-to-the-last of their top-break guns. The last was the Safety Hammerless that was disconued in 1940.

SouthpawShootr
June 21, 2006, 12:33 AM
a bad guy who was being covered by a good guy with a S&W top-break might put the G.G. in a bad fix if the B.G. reached over, grasp the barrel latch on the G.G.'s revolver and yanked up, opening the barrel and spilling cartridges all over.

Sounds a little far-fetched, but I would counter that anybody with any sense would put a nice round hole in B.G. the second he reaches for the gun. Kind of solves that one, wouldn't you agree?

Old Fuff
June 21, 2006, 05:08 AM
Sounds a little far-fetched,

Not really. Sales reps. from the other big handgun company would demonstrate, and pull it off because reaction time was on their side since they moved first. Later S&W advertising pointed out that the stunt wouldn't work on a Perfected Model.

Bullet Bob
June 21, 2006, 08:46 AM
I agree with The Fuff; after all, the cylinder rod on a top break goes through solid metal (i.e., doesn't "swing out"), so there's no need for a locking pin up front.

And, people really like the "bad guy disabling the gun" theory, no matter how bogus, as it has been applied in the present to the Beretta 92 series - I've even seen it in a couple of movies, so it must be true!

Obviously it's BS, as the criminal element could just as easily take the gun as open it if someone is unwilling to shoot, but there's no reason to let facts spoil perceptions in advertising or life, now is there.

robert garner
June 21, 2006, 08:53 AM
What a beautiful weapon!

SouthpawShootr
June 21, 2006, 09:39 AM
Not really. Sales reps. from the other big handgun company would demonstrate, and pull it off because reaction time was on their side since they moved first. Later S&W advertising pointed out that the stunt wouldn't work on a Perfected Model.

Oh, I have no doubt a sales rep would push such a scenario. I was just saying the scenario itself was stretching reality.

Old Fuff
June 21, 2006, 12:22 PM
Oh, I have no doubt a sales rep would push such a scenario. I was just saying the scenario itself was stretching reality.

Suposedly it had happened in real life... :scrutiny:

In any case S&W was concerned enough to come up with the Perfected Model, and in their advertising they pointed out that this was one of the things that made it "perfected." :)

In designing the Perfected Model, Joe Wesson, who had done a geat deal of design work since joining the company on November 11, 1880, incorporated all of the latest improvements developed by the firm. He had always heard the argument that a fast-acting thug could disable the standard double-action (top-break) revolver by reaching over the barrel, grasping the latch, and snapping the gun open, thus depositing all the cartridges on the ground and leaving the law enforcement officer or holder of the gun disarmed. To combat the problem, Joe incorporated the thumb-style cylinder latch that required two seperate operations to open the revolver.

---This feature was unique, and many .38 Double Action Perfected Models were sold to law enforcement agencies.

History of Smith & Wesson: by Roy G. Jinks; p.128

Working Man
June 21, 2006, 02:47 PM
On that auction site the ones that say "antq" does that mean that all one
needs is a C&R to have it shipped to themselves?

depicts
June 21, 2006, 04:42 PM
I'm pretty sure that if it says antique, you don't need ANY license to purchase it.

SouthpawShootr
June 21, 2006, 05:23 PM
On that auction site the ones that say "antq" does that mean that all one needs is a C&R to have it shipped to themselves?

From the terms section of that website:

ANTIQUE, MUZZLE-LOADING & AIR GUNS - Marked “antique” or “non-ffl” in catalog. These may be picked up the day of sale, or may be shipped directly to absentee bidders unless your local or state law has restricts this. It is our policy not to sell these items to individuals who would not be eligible to purchase modern firearms. By bidding on these, you represent that you are not a minor, convicted felon, drug addict, illegal alien, mentally defective individual, or other person who would be restricted from buying modern firearms, and that such purchase is legal your home area. Absentee bidders purchasing these items may be asked to send a copy of their drivers license w/ payment.

Also:

Marked “FFL” or “C&R FFL” in catalog. Kull Auction Company is a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer (FFL), and you can purchase these guns the same way you would from a gun shop.

Working Man
June 22, 2006, 08:02 AM
SouthpawShootr & depicts, thanks.

ssteven1
June 22, 2006, 09:56 AM
These are neat little guns. They were made between 1909-1920 I think. They are built on a modified I frame (32 hand ejector) and have modern lock work. They were sold as being hard for the bad guy to open. I think the main reason was to make the topbreak stonger. Most topbreaks weak point is the top latch. This gun gives 2 lock points in the back. You can unlock the top latch and it still won't open. Most topbreaks I have handled that have been shot much have some play in the top latch. My prefected's top latch has no play at all. They are not slow to load or unload. Unless you have a scholfield or webley most topbreaks are 2 hand operated guns anyway. You grab the toplatch with your off hand and push the latch with your shooting hand. If you like to shoot a topbreak S&W with modern amnmo, this is the best gun to get if you can find one.

I got this one for $80. It was covered with a horrible cold blue over old nickle. I polished off the cold blue. It has some honest were but I like it. Shoots great.

http://usera.imagecave.com/ssteven1/guns/SWperfected.jpg

SouthpawShootr
June 22, 2006, 10:27 AM
It was covered with a horrible cold blue over old nickle.

I winced when I read that. I've really got no problem with people refinishing their guns Most often this is done when the gun isn't collectible and it is their guns. What aggravates me so much is hamfisted, halfassed, backwoods barbecue ways of doing it. If somebody wants to refinish their gun, fine. Pay the gunsmith to do it right. I can't imagine what cold blue over nickel must have looked like. But it did allow you to get an old timer for a good price. Was the nickel the factory finish?

BluesBear
June 23, 2006, 07:53 AM
Still, must have been a bear to reload with any degree of speed.Not really.

Since this revolver has automatic ejection it can actually be done a teensy bit faster than a swing out cylinder.

You press the side latch forward with your right thumb just like you do with a modern S&W.

Your left hand grasps the top latch and pivots the action open. You'd have to do this anyway if the side latch wasn't there. It's not unlike using your left hand to open the cylinder

Your right hand grabs your speedloader or speed strip, yes they work with this type too, and completes the reload.

Your right hand goes back to the grip and you close the action.

Simple actually.
I just wish they'd made the Perfected in a .45 Webley size.
I'd want one.

staghounds
March 24, 2008, 05:49 PM
I shot mine quite a bit. Much easier to reload than a side swing, and no more difficult than any other t-latch top break.

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