A whole bunch of gun confiscation NOLA video's


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gunsmith
June 21, 2006, 11:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo

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DigitalWarrior
June 21, 2006, 12:49 PM
Scariest Thing I have ever seen.

Hoppy590
June 21, 2006, 01:07 PM
so i heard about this when it happened and read a little about it in American Rifleman. but has anything more become of it, id hope the NRA or some one is organizing a massive class action law suit. and not just for money, to make sure these kinds of things never happen again. also did anyone resist the police?

ProficientRifleman
June 21, 2006, 01:43 PM
I can't help but think of the number of police officers here, who stated, "Hell no! I would never do that!", on another thread.

When I watch that video, I wonder how many would follow the order to disarm law abiding citizens. How many of you officers would resign your position instead of following that order? How many of you would attempt to discourage your peers from following that order?

A simple indicator might be the following questions:

How many ATF agents resigned from that agency after the truth started coming out about Waco?
How many FBI agents resigned from that agency after 80 people were killed in that "law enforcement" action?

Hmmmmm? Anyone?

xcheck
June 21, 2006, 01:51 PM
This is just one of a numbe rof seizure related vidoes. Many more were and still possibly are up on the NRA/ILA website as well as SAF's site.

This does not even cover the Patricia Konie incident which both of those sites had up and may still.

Ira Aten
June 21, 2006, 02:05 PM
Quote:
"id hope the NRA or some one is organizing a massive class action law suit. and not just for money, to make sure these kinds of things never happen again. also did anyone resist the police?"


Update: The NRA indeed has received a judgement that N.O. police must give back the guns to their owners, and that the confiscation was not legal.
However, N.O. police and Nagin chose to simply disobey the Judges order thus far.

NRA is pushing legislatioon in States to outlaw the confiscation of guns (even though the 2nd amendment already makes it illegal anyway) but in consideration of the fact that NY City Mayor Bloomberg, and a bunch of other anti self defense Mayors like him are plotting meetings to outlaw guns in their cities in defiance of American will LaPierre and the NRA have decided to begin circulating a "pledge" document (in addition to their litigation against New Orleans City police department and their lobbying of State officials to outlaw illegal gun grabs) to see if Mayors of cities will sign a pledge to never order the confiscation of weapons.

Since the Mayors all did swear oaths not to violate the constitution when they entered office, it should be a simple matter.

So the NRA is doing their part as much as they can in consideration of the fact that Mayors in the United States do not believe the law applies to them, it would sure be good if groups of gun owners within each city, took those pledge documents to city council meetings and also to commissioners court hearings to ask in public, that their mayors, council members, police chiefs, and local sherrifs sign pledges to not confiscate weapons from peaceable Americans.
Also, it wouldn't hurt if the District Attorneys of each county are approched with some type of pledge that would be filed in County Records stating they will prosecute LEO's that follow orders to pull that type of gun grabs or confiscations that New Orleans pulled, and to also pledge not to prosecute peacable Americans in their counties, that defend themselves against illegal gun confiscations from LEO's given unconstitutional orders to steal their methods of self defense by the point of a gun.

It is truly the minimum to ask of your Mayor, Sherrif, Police Chief, or District Attorney who are all elected officials. In fact, now that I think of it, I believe I will spearhead an effort in my county to get this done.

rbernie
June 21, 2006, 02:43 PM
Scariest Thing I have ever seen.It still makes me shake my head.

I'll not say what I wanted to; it's not terribly High Road. But I am having difficulty drawing much distinction between the black-clothed tacticool yahoos shown in the first video and any other form of home invasion goblin.

DoubleTapDrew
June 21, 2006, 04:48 PM
There is absolutely nothing that can justify taking away people's guns when they need them most. Didn't look like there were badges on most of those guys either. Going around in cammies with an AR shouting "POLICE" I bet you could score a lot of weapons.
The most sickening part is the idiots re-elected smash-n-grab nagin. Have fun in your defenseless chocolate city. Sorry about the pro-RKBA people that have to live there.
If there is another big hurricane this year will things turn out the same (with respect to people giving up their weapons peacefully)?

Roadwild17
June 21, 2006, 05:03 PM
I know I woudnt, I was in Laplace when it opened up and thing were crazy there, but no shooting, and that was 20 min from NO:what: I turned 21 on that day and I was carying my glock OWB. In a situation like that screw the permit muchless giving up my guns :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

engineer151515
June 21, 2006, 05:04 PM
If there is another big hurricane this year will things turn out the same ...?

I predict worse.

Looting crowds will be larger.

Precedent has been set. No consequences.

Kim
June 21, 2006, 09:43 PM
My dream is the NYT, Wash Times etc and ABCNBCBACNNFOX MSNBC will have this story with the video talking about the abuse of constitutional rights. Oh and even NPR would be angry. How about a bid press conference with Charles Shumer etc. screaming about this. That is my dream.. IF we had the media on our side we would not be having these problems now. Oh heck lets throw in the lefty ACLU. Nah will never happen. As a matter of fact I thinkt the NYT and Wash POST and NPR have already whinned about the NRA saying guns were confiscated and laughing at their idea of getting laws passed to prohibit such action.:cuss:

Tokugawa
June 21, 2006, 09:47 PM
OK, people- get this straight- those guys WILL round up US citizens and put them in the cattle cars. You heard what they said-" I don't like to do this" " this is surreal" "I'd rather be in Iraq" and they DID it anyway.
This is EXACTLY the words used by reserve police unit 101. They really found it uncomfortable to round up little girls, grandmothers and grown men and blow thier brains out from 10 feet away. BUT THEY DID IT.
The essence of the military and police is to follow orders. Interestingly, the members of police reserve unit 101 were also used to following orders- mostly a bunch of working class Hienrich's who drove trucks, ran tools, etc. They did just what they were told to do. Like it? No. Do it, yes.
If you do not know about reserve police unit(Battalion?) I suggest a search, and a read of the book. This is possibly the most chilling story I have ever read. There is no psychopathic torture murderer who can hold a candle to the ordinary joe'swho went to Poland to kill Jews. Truly a unique story. For obvious reasons, most of the accounts of the murder of the Jews were written by the intended victims.
I am quite convinced American troops and police would do this if ordered. Yes, they would bitch. Yes, some would request alternate assignments. Yes, most would puke after every "operation". And finally, Yes, most would follow orders and do it.

XDn00b101
June 21, 2006, 11:24 PM
I'm just dumbfounded at the fact that they went door to door in attack mode using automatic weapons to supposedly "help" people evacuate. That's just outrages! In fact, I find the Police and Soldiers actions insinuate they felt the locals where a threat to them, rather than the Soldiers and Police looking out for them.

Lucky
June 21, 2006, 11:27 PM
I don't think anyone in the West would knowingly send innocents to their deaths, today. However, if you look at the origin of the concentration camp, you'd see that death is simply the result to be expected. The Brits said they were doing a favour, rounding up Boer women and children, for their own good. Too bad they all got sick and starved and died.

...After all, you can't trust them not to drink the dirty water. So they have to be put in camps. It's just common sense.

ChrisPer
June 21, 2006, 11:36 PM
The reason was almost certainly that the media published many wild rumours, completely overblew the situation and caused a lot of official overreaction.

Almost every 'social breakdown' story was false - the shooting at helicopters, the superdome rapes, the murders.

XDn00b101
June 21, 2006, 11:41 PM
The reason was almost certainly that the media published many wild rumours, completely overblew the situation and caused a lot of official overreaction.

Almost every 'social breakdown' story was false - the shooting at helicopters, the superdome rapes, the murders.



No matter if that stuff was true, or false. That would give even more reason for people to protect themselves.

ready4shtf
June 22, 2006, 11:20 AM
I'm sorry. I will defend the constution and its ammendments. Hurricane or not. If you enter my house, intent on violating my constutitional rights, you will be leaving horizontal. :(

I swore that I would support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

If any of those tacti-cool mall ninjas tried that stuff in property they would have two options. Stand down, or perish.


To me, it's worth dying for. I would rather die fighting then live in oppression.

gunsmith
June 22, 2006, 12:43 PM
that quote really got me, the cops took the tools they used to protect themselves...just evil!

Punkermonkey
June 22, 2006, 02:05 PM
That clip made me want to cry. There should be absolute outrage over such a thing! For any government agency to warrentlessly (is that even a word?) enter anyone's home, take property with out court order, and detain a citizen treating them like a criminal is an egregious violation of Civil Rights! This was nothing more than a despicable gun grab. I'm sure Sara Brady and her ilk danced with joy when the heard about this. This is truly a sad day.

v8fbird
June 22, 2006, 09:35 PM
You all whine...but who will you be voting for come election day? If you say Democrats or Republicans, then you deserve what that video proves is coming to you.

Chosing Tyrant A or Tyrant B is no choice at all.

DoubleTapDrew
June 23, 2006, 11:13 PM
that quote really got me, the cops took the tools they used to protect themselves...just evil!
Exactly! "We're here to help! We aren't going to evactuate you but we ARE going to take away your only means for defense. Have a good day. BTW you won't be getting these back."
You all whine...but who will you be voting for come election day? If you say Democrats or Republicans, then you deserve what that video proves is coming to you.

Chosing Tyrant A or Tyrant B is no choice at all.
I'm registered as a republican but my views are closer to the libertarian party. I'd like to vote for one for prez but even if half of the republicans realized they were actually libertarians we'd have a 25% libertarian, 25% republican, 50% democrat vote count. It sucks!

cpileri
June 23, 2006, 11:46 PM
I can't seem to do it, but someone with the ability to save those videos should definitely do so!

i have a feeling that these images will go the way of that famous tank-with-a-flaming-muzzle. Nope, never happened...

Just my cheap advice.
C-

beerslurpy
June 23, 2006, 11:47 PM
The best medicine is experience. The american people know what to expect and I hope they will respond accordingly next time this is attempted.

MIL-DOT
June 24, 2006, 12:02 AM
hey "tokugawa" and "ready4shtf", great posts !!!! you guys can be on my paintball team any time !!!!
but seriously, this shook me up as much as the rest of you.seriously,we're in deep sh*t, i've known since an early age it was coming, but all of a sudden .........i'm truly at a loss for words.
it's really gonna happen,isn't it ?

Otherguy Overby
June 24, 2006, 12:37 AM
It occurs to me that those most vocal defenders of law enforcement should attempt to defend this...

ProficientRifleman
June 24, 2006, 02:45 AM
A few posts above, I challenged our Law Enforcement friends to reply and it doesn't seem like any want to.

I really would like to hear them defend the confiscation action in N.O.

Then tell us again how they truly believe in the 2nd Amendment.

I'll pose the question again:

How many of you Police Officers and Sheriff's Deputies would refuse an order to confiscate the firearms from law abiding citizens in their home (or on their own property)?

How many of you would attempt to discourage others from following such an unlawful and immoral order?

SaintofKillers
June 25, 2006, 09:36 PM
Proficient Rifleman,

It aint going to happen. The silence is deafening.

We are on a express elevator straight down. Forget the slippery slope.

FTF
June 25, 2006, 10:01 PM
I can't fault them for not responding.

The sad truth IMO, as far as knocking down your door, holding you at gunpoint without a warrant, taking your guns and treating you like a hostage at Gitmo, would be the same at every law enforcement agency around the country. They follow orders and would do exactly as they were told. Of course, they are trying to feed themselves and/or their families... of course they wouldn't jeapordize their jobs over something as small as taking away firearms... hell, they 'are' trying to protect you... according to their supervisors. I'm not sure I could blame them...

It's this ingrained sense that you have to "protect your fellow brothers" in law enforement that just perpetuates the entire fraud.

I was in the military, and if faced with such a situation while I was in... I wouldn't have done it. Even being armed as a soldier/marine in an urban environment in the US is pretty risky moral ground... at least to me. With a family, and mouths to feed... who knows.. I would probably go along with whatever I was ordered to do... can't take care of your family very well as a dishonorably discharged military vet, or a cop with a revoked POST certification.

I doubt any of them care. And the great majority of them will follow whatever orders they receive. I, for one, would resist by force, anyone who attempts to enter my property without proper legal documentation and/or lawful authority. Owning my own property and choosing to stay there w/o endangering anyone else constitutes such. Someone tells me no, and they come in... that constitutes self defense IMO. I'm surprised nobody in NO stood up for themselves.... I would have. But, as I said earlier, that would probably change if I had a family to feed.

Let it happen here.

Oleg Volk
June 25, 2006, 10:24 PM
Seems that developing ability to hit hostiles past the range of CQB rifles would have been useful. Unfortunately, few people are trained as snipers or have the ability to fight effectively with no support and against overwhelming odds. I am of opinion that all those who participated in these confiscations should receive the death penalty, at least after the fact. They were about as evil as Sherman's tropps back in 1865. Same goes -- with more emphasis -- for those who ordered these confiscations. Unfortunately, they'll probably live out their natural lifespans instead of hanging.

ChrisPer
June 25, 2006, 11:40 PM
Ah, codswallop.

A soldier or a policeman has to do his duty. Where orders may be doubtful, he should carry out the order and debate afterwards - eg by request for redress of wrongs.

How are you going to give redress to the widow of a young neighbour in the national guard, who you killed because you felt your honor required it?

Bullets are not reversible; courts can redress a lot of other things.

Art Eatman
June 25, 2006, 11:56 PM
OO & PR: Considering that this is about the fourth or fifth iteration on this same confiscation, I doubt that our LEOs will bother. The horse is still dead.

For the record, none of ours supported the illegal actions of the New Orleans deal.

Art

DoubleTapDrew
June 26, 2006, 01:56 AM
A soldier or a policeman has to do his duty. Where orders may be doubtful, he should carry out the order and debate afterwards - eg by request for redress of wrongs.

How are you going to give redress to the widow of a young neighbour in the national guard, who you killed because you felt your honor required it?

Bullets are not reversible; courts can redress a lot of other things.

Methinks such was the mentality in Germany in the late 30's/early 40s.
"Just doing my job" doesn't make something right. It all comes down to decisions of man, some of whom need a kick upside the head.
You can never ever disarm civilians "for their safety".

Hawkmoon
June 26, 2006, 03:32 AM
Ah, codswallop.

A soldier or a policeman has to do his duty. Where orders may be doubtful, he should carry out the order and debate afterwards - eg by request for redress of wrongs.

How are you going to give redress to the widow of a young neighbour in the national guard, who you killed because you felt your honor required it?

Bullets are not reversible; courts can redress a lot of other things.
"Ah, codswallop" your self, Sir.

Defending your home ... and the instruments FOR defending your home ... is not simply about "honor." It is, rather, about maintaining the tools to defend your sphere of personal influence and safety against burgeoning anarchy in the streets. If the city is flooding, reports are saying there are looters and snipers all over the city, and the police come to the door and want to remove the GUN that keeps the looters from entering my home ... do you think that's just a matter of "honor"? What about "pragmatism"?

Redress to the widow of the National Guardsman who wanted to take my rifle? Suppose I let him take it, and that night I or my wife or my children are killed by home invaders whom I no longer have the means to resist. Is that Guardsman going to make redress to ME? Is a court going to make me whole for the loss of my wife's life, because the authorities decreed that I should not be allowed to defend her?

Gimme a break, Mate. You've been paying too much mind to your PM.

By the way: I of course have no idea what the protocol is in the Australian army, but the U.S. Unform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and Army Regulations make it VERY clear that a soldier has an affirmative duty to not obey an unlawful order. That's heavy stuff ... and it's actually not the way I recall it being taught to us during Basic Training during Vietnam. My recollection is that we were told we did not have to obey an unlawful order. However, if you actually read the UCMJ and the A.R.s, you find that, in fact, it is a requirement (not a choice or an option) to not obey an unlawful order. And, since every soldier swears an oath upon entering the service to protect and to defend the Constitution, any order which violates the Constitution is by definition unlawful.

I just did a quick Google on "UCMJ" and "Unlawful Order." Here's a quote from a forum that one of the links took me to:
i don't know how things were when PFC england went through, but i can tell you what it was like in the post-abu g army.

eight hours of mind numbingly bad powerpoint during the week before you load up on the plane for theater. every ridiculous detail of the UCMJ. the slides and presenter cover everything, but they also do a pretty good job at emphasizing what is important.

"everyone wake up for this one, it's important." monitors actually walk around the room the whole time, making sure everyone is, at the very least, opened eyed, quiet, and pointing in the right direction.

one of the things they stress over, and over, and over is that everyone in theater, soldiers and contractors alike, falls under the UCMJ and saying that you were only following orders will NEVER stand up in court.

"if you are given an order that is illegal, it is your legal obligation to violate that order and inform the chain of command." must have been said, without exageration, seven or eight times.

the accountability for the presentations is a person you have to check in with every time you enter or leave the room.

like i said, i can't vouch for whether or not this all used to happen before abu g, but it certainly does now.
posted by bryak at 3:26 AM PST on September 30

ProficientRifleman
June 26, 2006, 03:51 AM
Your response was close to one I was about to write.

This is what I mean about the "cops are always right" attitude. When they can't argue logically, they'll appeal to your emotions.

Still they expect you to bow your head, roll over and say you're sorry.

At the real risk of sounding like an extremist nutberger, ChrisPer should remember the American War for Independence started becuase the Lawful Authority was coming to a neighborhood near you to confiscate weapons.

ChrisPer
June 26, 2006, 06:45 AM
Well argued, gentlemen!

More or less the same is true in the Australian army. You are duty bound to disobey a clearly illegal order, eg to fire on noncombatants.

Nevertheless, what I said is what we were taught; I would refuse an illegal order to shoot a civilian but if I were unsure about the legality of an order for instance to arrest a civilian or disarm him I would obey my officer and fix the problem after.

And for what my opinion is worth, even in my innoffensive corner of the service, if you shot a comrade, you and the rest in your house would not be kicking back for beers for some time afterward. The scenario that killing soldiers would allow you to keep your weapons so that you could protect your family afterward is somewhat unlikely. More likely one of those Ma Deuces that do such good work in Iraq would make your position look like a pile of dust, and then you are no use to your family at all.

The 'rules for a revolution' articulated by John Stuart Mill (I think) went something like:
1) A long series of usurpations amd oppressions against the people have occurred and continue to occur.
2) Remonstrating and argument to the authorities have failed to rein in the abuses.
3) The courts are not protecting you.
4) It is generally agreed by the majority of men of good sense that it is time to take up arms.
5) The people act together to remove the problem.

In these circumstances you have right on your side to start perforating your neighbours in green or blue.

The whole 'cold dead hands' thing was no use to us when they took our Ruger 10/22s and Remington pump shotguns. We took the money and replaced them with bolt actions, doubles and 1911s.

Spiphel Rike
June 26, 2006, 10:46 AM
"A soldier or a policeman has to do his duty. Where orders may be doubtful, he should carry out the order and debate afterwards - eg by request for redress of wrongs.

How are you going to give redress to the widow of a young neighbour in the national guard, who you killed because you felt your honor required it?

Bullets are not reversible; courts can redress a lot of other things."

I'll believe you when the citizens on N.O have their weapons returned.
"may be doubtful"? If it's blatantly in conflict with the fourth and fifth in the BOR there can't be much doubt. Those soldiers and cops have all violated their oaths to defend the constitution.

ChrisPer, when were you in the Army over here?

armoredman
June 26, 2006, 11:48 AM
I can tell you I brought up the videos on officer.com, and was immediately attacked, in post and PM, by NOLA cops, as having no idea what I was talking about, a few videos make no differance, I wasn't there, shut up, go away, etc.
I will not follow orders to do such actions, but being a correctional sergeant, I don't think they will tap me to patrol streets, anyway.

ChrisPer
June 26, 2006, 12:37 PM
Spiphel, I was in the ARES 1976-79 not the Army. Served 'overseas' - the locals were quokkas :D . I do not claim that as any level of expertise, and you know it for sure. I also have lived in Zimbabwe for a couple of years and thus can be sure of the difference between our western well-regulated government agencies and the level of usurpations and abuses that should call forth a popular armed rising.

Folks as I understand it from the blogs, the NO weapons are being returned now - as fast as bureaucracy and lying city officials permit it to happen. Doesn't make the original taking right, but there are no dead National Guardsmen or cops, and no families killed in securing the ambush sites.

Autolycus
June 26, 2006, 01:13 PM
It is a frightening thought. However I am not sure that ChrisPer understands how ingrained guns are into the US way of life. Guns are a fact of life here in the US and our governments founding fathers felt that US citizens had the right to own them. And no government officials are allowed to hinder that right.

There were many Bill of Rights issues caused by the hurricane. Amendments 1,2,3, and 4 easily. I dont know if you all saw the video of the women getting tackled on the first post but the one that is avilable through the first link is edited. And it makes the older women look a lot crazier. I will try to find some other videos but I am not suprised that it is changed.

cpileri
June 26, 2006, 02:21 PM
i appreciate your response.
My thought based on your post is: what all those other folks on officerDOTcom are saying, besides shut up, go away, etc; is that they would follow orders.
That's the scary part.
C-

kludge
June 26, 2006, 02:46 PM
FTF Wrote:
I doubt any of them care. And the great majority of them will follow whatever orders they receive. I, for one, would resist by force, anyone who attempts to enter my property without proper legal documentation and/or lawful authority. Owning my own property and choosing to stay there w/o endangering anyone else constitutes such. Someone tells me no, and they come in... that constitutes self defense IMO. I'm surprised nobody in NO stood up for themselves.... I would have. But, as I said earlier, that would probably change if I had a family to feed.

Let it happen here.

Yup, I see this very sentiment on all the 2A forums.

I bet there were people in N.O. that felt this way too. Trouble is, if it had happened in N.O. we'd have heard about it. "AP wire... Four Police Dead After Man Defends 2A Rights".

The great social experiment has occured. We lost. They know it.

The Consititution has been relegated to toilet paper duty.

Where are all our senators that are supposed to be standing up the States, and the powers reseved to Them? Oh yeah, we have direct election of senators now, they don't really represent the States anymore, do they?




On the other hand, maybe the smart ones were prepared in advance, heeded the warning, and got out of Dodge before the SHTF. We can only hope.

Ryder
June 26, 2006, 04:48 PM
we'd have heard about it. "AP wire... Four Police Dead After Man Defends 2A Rights".

Bull hooey, it would read Crazed gunman attacks police. Followed by his complete criminal history (wonder where they get that?) in an attempt to villify him. In the medias eyes there is no justifiable motive.

Why presume the cops will be coming after the people? You guys obviously missed that NO footage with the cops barricaded on their rooftops every night.

I fault people for using the "just doing our jobs" excuse. That's a personal choice they made. Nobody forced them to make that decision.

kludge
June 26, 2006, 05:02 PM
[quote]Bull hooey, it would read Crazed gunman attacks police. [/v]

touche.

engineer151515
June 26, 2006, 05:38 PM
Folks as I understand it from the blogs, the NO weapons are being returned now - as fast as bureaucracy and lying city officials permit it to happen.

The City of New Orleans denied for months that it does have a stockpile of firearms seized from private citizens in the days following Hurricane Katrina.

Agreement reached to return said firearms was reached March 16, 2006.

As of June, on the order of 15% have of the firearms been returned (IIRC).

This does not count those firearms that were outright destroyed (sometimes right in front of their owners).

mindwip
June 26, 2006, 06:05 PM
LOL they were threatened, "because our weapons were bigger then there weapons" from one of the non leos. Got to love that.



ps i also would of hiden most of my pistols/rifles, if i had more then one, let them take one or two away, and acted like it was a big deal, then when they were gone i would of got some more out of hiding

Correia
June 26, 2006, 07:16 PM
Horse crap.

I had many friends who were in New Orleans during Katrina. Most of the National Guard didn't confiscate any weapons. Most of the NG wouldn't confiscate any weapons. Asking members of the Utah NG was considered stupid and suicidal. It was members of the NG and non-NO law enforcement that blew the whistle on this. It was law enforcement officers that were in NO, who disobeyed the order to collect guns, that were keeping us up to date online.

Most of my friends were way to busy pulling bloated corpses of children out of sunken houses to worry about petty BS orders from corrupt politicians. They saw people with guns, and they smiled and waved.

Go back and read the threads that occured during this. Read my posts during that time. I was in contact with people there and did my best to keep everyone up to date about the confiscations. It was LE and NG that let us know what was going on. It was NG that called home and told their friends and loved ones to call their respective governors and raise hell about the confiscations.

Sure, we're on a slippery slope all right. Slippery from all the tears and whining of people on the internet who like to get all self righteous over cops and the guard. As if the NG has to prove squat to you.

The confiscations lasted for a period of less than 24 hours, in the most corrupt city in America, with the most corrupt police force in America, in a place where most of the people like us had the brains to get the hell out, in a place swarming with more cops and military than anywhere else in the country, during a disaster, with almost total military control over the media, with the media being in favor of allowing anything to happen, and they were still a total flop. With almost universal, massive back lash, and accomplished nothing more than to really fire up the gun culture.

Yeah, I'm real worried.

We lost? HOW? You've got every red state in the country tripping over itself to pass laws forbidding the confiscation of weapons during a disaster. You've got the gun culture fired up. You've got lawsuits. And you had NG disobeying orders and telling city officals to screw off.

And anybody with half a brain can look at what happened in a cesspool like NO, and what a flop confiscation was, and you expect me to think that it would work better in a place that isn't a corrupt welfare leach city? NO was the perfect test case, there really weren't any things that could have been better conditions, and it still sucked.

What the hell is with people on the internet who feel the need to be picked on and defeated? Give me a break.

And before anybody starts accusing me of being an apologist. I'm an SOT. The government crap you like to complain about anonymously on line is crap that I have to deal with on a daily basis. You think you are on the To Do List? Brother, I'm pretty sure I'm a few spots up from you. So CHILL OUT with the self righteous indignation.

If you think Jeff White, Coronach, Johnny and Matt Guest, Lawdog, and the men like them are going to boot down your door and take your guns because there was a tornado, then you are delusional. If you live in a place like NO, where your cops are that stupid and corrupt, then you need to move the hell away.

R-Tex12
June 26, 2006, 10:58 PM
Most well put, Correia! Can't disagree with a single thing you said. Thank you.

Rick

axeman_g
June 26, 2006, 11:09 PM
I was in NO and surrounding area from Sept 2 till Nov 1 with large telecom company, restoring cell tower services first then as a logisitics manager for temporary facilities.

I saw plenty of people with weapons, NG, LEO and Civies all day and all night. Black folk, white folk and purple folk. I saw not one nor heard of a single actual confiscation... there were plenty of rumors about this cousin of a friend or another guy having his full autos taken away by NO LEO or La NG.

Never saw it and if it happened it was limited.

Oleg Volk
June 26, 2006, 11:36 PM
I got PMs today from two THR members who had their guns taken (later returned) during NOLA05.

The THR staff cops are here because I respect them. They proved themselves many times over.

XavierBreath
June 26, 2006, 11:56 PM
I was in New Orleans as well. My small civilian group of volunteers was visably armed. We were left alone.

Still, a thousand firearms in storage is difficult to deny, as Nagin, Riley and Compass tried to do. It was only a move by the NRA/SAF towards a contempt of court ruling that finally forced these men to admit to having the guns. When faced with incarceration prior to election, Nagin came clean.

On April 18, 2006, Lawdog wrote his thoughts (http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/04/shame-shame-shame.html) about the confiscations. On December 31, 2006, I wrote mine (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/12/gun-story-of-2005.html). I blogged NOLA's admission (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-orleans-admits-to-gun-confiscation.html) on March 16, 2006. My first post (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/09/racism-gun-confiscation-and-hurricaine.html) on the confiscations was on September 20, 2005. I have been blogging updates since September 2005. Indeed, these events were the seminal force behind my blog.

The events that occured in New Orleans happened. A thousand firearms being secretly held is not an isolated occurance. Some names to remember in the coming year are Buell Teel, Patricia Konie, Fredrick Thomas, Wayne Schum, Richard Styron, and Robert Zas. All were law abiding citizens who had their firearms taken by force, when they needed them most.

These confiscations are undeniable. They happened. A thousand firearms came from somewhere. Plaintiffs are waiting for justice still. Many law officers and NG did not carry out the orders to confiscate, but some did. It is depressing to see that some still deny the truth, and others never knew what happened.

We must prevent similar occurances in the future. NOPD Chief Warren Riley has already declared (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-gun-confiscations-planned-in-new.html) he will do the same thing this hurricane season, despite HB 760 (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/byinst.asp?sessionid=06RS&billtype=HB&billno=760) becoming law in Louisiana.

This is important. The time for righteous indignation is past. If you are indignant now, you are a few months behind. Now is the time to firmly and resolutely bring about change to prevent future confiscations. Find out what is happening in your own state, and find out which organizations truely contribute to your right to keep and bear arms. Then support them with your money and time. Rights are not retained by apathy, denial and being blissfully unaware. Look at the evidence. Draw your own conclusions. Get involved.

R-Tex12
June 27, 2006, 01:08 AM
+1000, XavierBreath. I could not agree more.

Please continue to post updates.

ProficientRifleman
June 27, 2006, 03:38 AM
I just read Lawdog's rant on the gun confiscations. Thank goodness we have ONE Peace Oficer who has morals, takes his oath of office seriously and says so out loud.

That is exactly what I was looking for. Why don't more LEO's speak up and take a stand?

Kudos Lawdog!

Malum Prohibitum
June 27, 2006, 10:42 AM
The confiscations lasted for less than 24 hours? Where are you getting that? Read the SAF lawsuit and the papers attached. There were people getting there weapons seized weeks later when coming in to check on the damage to their property.

:rolleyes:

Correia
June 27, 2006, 11:02 AM
And that, I don't know anything about. So you are probably right.

I can only speak for the people that I know.

Look, I'm not saying they didn't happen. On the contrary, I know they did, and I know that it is horrible, and we need to do everything in our power to stop them from ever happening again.

I just get real tired of the chicken little, defeatist, crying I hear online. As if every single person that has ever worn camo or a badge needs to personally go to that crying poster and pinky swear that he won't do anything bad. I know lots of these folks, work, and train with them, and the vast majority aren't going to confiscate anyone's guns. Outside of major urban areas, guys like Lawdog are whole lot closer to the average.

By any anti-gunners standards, the confiscations were a train wreck. In perfect conditions for them, this was the best they could do. Change the situation slightly, say that there wasn't tons of evacuation time, and the majority of people like us were still there. The situation would have been ten times as ugly, and lots of confiscators probably would have been shot, or at least kept really busy, in a situation where everyone really has more important things to do.

So I really am in agreement with most of you. And we should be ticked, and we should be fighting. But I think we should at least be smart enough to be mad at the right people, and fight the right people.

axeman_g
June 27, 2006, 11:11 AM
As a person that denied the existence of the gun grab... I was wrong. It appears that it did happen on a larger scale then I imagined. That being said, it is WRONG to ask citizens to release their weapons, but NG and LEO grunts are going to ordered to do it again. What are you going to do, shoot it out with a squad of NG with M16s, or hand over? But I am not getting into a lead pissing match I cant or wont win. Especially not with Joe Average guy from Dallas that got called up from his job at FedEx to help keep the peace, who is just following some dumb a55 politicians edict, possibly ruining his life, his families and mine. A little subterfuge will go a long way.

Personally, during the next I will hide some... hand over the .22 Ruger MKII and Rem 11-87. They the only guns left that were purchased through a documented, FFL transfer. They others were all FTF deals.

Henry Bowman
June 27, 2006, 11:18 AM
Larry, I think some of the frustration in the NOLA situation comes from not being able to identify the "right people."

The leaders, mayor & police chief, deny giving the order, even though they stated publicly that people were not going to be allowed to stay armed. The chief is gone, the mayor has been re-elected and claims they have no confiscated guns [well, these few over here], and the people are being asked to prove what they owned to get them back.

The confiscators acted with near anonymity. There were personnel from so many jurisdictions, both federal and state level, and so few were caught on tape. Even those caught on tape, the individuals have not been officially identified.

The "broad brush" covers many more upstanding people than perpetrators. But in frustration, they hope that those falsely painted will gain a stake in identifying the "right people" on which to lay blame. That dosn't justify the "broad brush," but helps explain its use.

Correia
June 27, 2006, 11:23 AM
Henry, sad, but true. And that part sucks.

Though I think Nagin and Compass need to be hung to start with.

kludge
June 27, 2006, 11:31 AM
Correia, My apologies to you if I offended you. In no way did I mean any disrespect to the NG or any of the other GOOD GUYS performing their service, and I mean it, they did A LOT of good things. The latest report I read about the NG's involvement was a glowing review and put to rest many of the misconceptions about the ineptitudes portrayed by the media.

Every Guardsman I've met has been a good guy. The vast majority of COPS are good guys. I've only had one occasion in my life where a cop was disrespectful to me. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the GOOD GUYS would refuse an order to violate the Constitutional Rights of American citizens.

However, as other have said more eloquently than I, the confiscations occurred, so some obeyed the order. No shots were fired. In the same situation (a single person facing a group of armed law enforcement with orders to evacuate and disarm), most people would not shoot. And many of the people who SAY they would, won't. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's not the GOOD GUYS I'm worried about. I'm worried that the GOOD GUYS would be out fighting foreign wars, and we'll have a UN "peacekeeping force", who has not taken an oath to defend our Constitution, depriving us of our arms.

Please pass me the tinfoil helmet. I'd rather be paranoid than wrong.

Correia
June 27, 2006, 11:56 AM
No offense taken, nor meant. I think Henry nailed what I was talking about.

Ira Aten
June 27, 2006, 11:56 AM
Quote from Punkermonkey:
"For any government agency to warrentlessly (is that even a word?) enter anyone's home, take property with out court order, and detain a citizen treating them like a criminal is an egregious violation of Civil Rights!"



Dear Punkermonkey:

These unlawful acts committed under the color of authority, were violations of CONSTITUTIONAL rights, not Civil rights. I am not meaning to nit pick but this is an important, fundamental issue in relation to the argument that guns should not be confiscated, old women should not be slam dunked by LEO's, etc.

A civil right, is one granted by a government agency. A CONSTITUTIONAL right is one of the inherent rights granted by God, that were recognized by the Founders in writing upon establishing our system of government.

The gun grab itself, was facilitated by citizens and LEO's being led to believe that a civil statute enacted by a municipality or state, or an order issued by a civil law enforcement officer, both overules and overides both Individual and Collective Constitutional Rights.

Accordingly, our representatives continuation of ignoring the Constitution is also contributing to the ability of the United Nations to begin the process of dictating a national gun registry within our country and ultimately instituting a wholesale national gun confiscation. Our nations representatives are simply claiming to be sleeping through it.

Enjoy your 2nd Amendment rights for the short while they continue to somewhat exist. Because soon, your local LEO's will be given orders to initiate a gun confiscation. And they will (as demonstrated by officers from all over the country overwhelmingly participating in the one in New Orleans) comply with those orders, since they truly believe their Mayor or unelected Cheif of Police, has the authority to overide the 2nd Amendment.

I only say the majority of LEO's will comply with such an order, due to the fact that in the most recent gun confiscation in New Orleans, the officers proved it. While some LEO's will not comply, not enough will refuse, as evidenced by the wholesale gun confiscation in New Orleans.

It is a shame, however, it is factual.

Correia
June 27, 2006, 12:20 PM
See, Ira, that is what I was talking about.

With an attitude like that, we've already lost.

I must have missed the "overwhelming" part conducted by the "vast majority".

Once again:

1. most corrupt city in the country.
2. most corrupt police force in the country.
3. in an epic state of confusion from one of the worst natural disasters in history.
4. where most of the hard core gunnies have left.
5. with absolute media access controlled by the government.
6. swarming with cops and military way out of proportion to the population.

And they got a couple of thousand guns.
And there was a huge backlash. And our people are up in arms and righteously pissed off.
And enough NG and cops from out of state threw fits, causing their home state governors to freak out.
And caused all of the red states to pass laws forbidding the seizure of guns in a disaster.
And caused tens of thousands of fence sitters to go out and buy their first guns because they saw this chaos and meltdown of society on their TVs.

I'm in the minority on this, but I think we are BETTER off now. NO was a wake up call. You have no idea how many guns I sold to first time buyers after Katrina. It woke people up. Not us. People like us are already ticked off. But it woke up quite a few of the general population. The government can't save you. If anything they will make you worse off. You need to take care of yourself.

The saddest part of this whole scheme is that Nagin got reelected instead of being sent to prison. But that is what you get in a 3rd world welfare leach city.

And what happens, Ira, when the police try to confiscate guns in Texas? Say in a situation where most of the middle and upper class, and anybody with a clue didn't have the chance to evacuate. People are going to get shot. Confiscators and resistors. And you think that there was an overwhelming majority out there snatching guns? What is going to happen when those people start getting shot? And what happens when the resistors who get killed turn out to be their friends, neighbors, and even relatives? I think you're going to run out of confiscators really fast.

Nope. If you think the backlash from Katrina was bad, that would be nothing compared to what would happen in other places.

I'm not ready to throw my hands in the air and cry defeat. It didn't work in NO, and it ain't going to work anywhere else.

As for UN troops confiscating guns, A. the UN couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack with out us. B. We might have qualms about shooting Bob and Skip from the local sheriff's department, but I don't see as many objections about shooting Achmed and Pierre from the UN. :p




Once again, I've got to specify, that just because I'm not going to cover myself in sack cloth and ashes doesn't mean that I condone the confiscations or deny they ever happened. Yes, they happened. And it was bad. And people should have went to jail for it.

Malum Prohibitum
June 27, 2006, 12:46 PM
"But that is what you get in a 3rd world welfare leach city. "

:eek:


Well, you also get marauding transvestites. "The last thing the Magazine Street shop owners expected to threaten their survival was a crime ring of transvestites."

Link:
http://www.neworleanscitybusiness.com/uptotheminute.cfm?recid=4912&userID=0&referer=dailyUpdate

:D

XavierBreath
June 27, 2006, 08:11 PM
Well put Mr. Correia, very well put.

I would wager a month's pay there are more guns per capita south of Alexandria Louisiana now than there were in June 2005.

mbt2001
June 28, 2006, 02:17 PM
Is it even legal to do what they did to that old lady? I mean how could they think that they were acting with any legal authority at all... can the city/state/fed MAKE YOU LEAVE? Isn't that depriving you of property without due process and compensaiton?

National Guard should be disbanded...

kludge
June 28, 2006, 02:25 PM
IIRC those were LAPD or CHP.

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