Our beloved Pax got a submission from someone on Keepandbeararms.com!


PDA






NineseveN
June 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
http://keepandbeararms.com/news/nl/disp.asp?d=06/21/2006

Ignore the stupid comments, they know not what they do. Nice to see your stuff is making the rounds.

If you enjoyed reading about "Our beloved Pax got a submission from someone on Keepandbeararms.com!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
WayneConrad
June 21, 2006, 04:27 PM
Which one of those is Pax's doing?

Henry Bowman
June 21, 2006, 04:29 PM
"How to Make Your Wife Hate Guns"

auschip
June 21, 2006, 04:47 PM
With friend's like those commentors, who needs enemies. :barf:

Hazwaste
June 21, 2006, 04:59 PM
I post under the name "idont@thinkso.com" over there. The article provided some good information, and frankly some of her comments hit close to home. I got a kick out of some of the comments from the guys with "women issues" who turned her article on how to help your wife/gf become a 2nd amendment supporter into an argument about dating. :scrutiny:

sm
June 21, 2006, 06:44 PM
Some folks have no business having a Computer, and Internet Access. Bad enough we have those against us using IT to tarnish RKBA, now we have "supposed" KABA folks causing more division.

Human Beings means everyone from Men, Women to Kids. I do not recall ever reading COTUS, or BoR stating "One has to be this tall to ride the ride called Freedom" . Never read where "No Vaginas Allowed in This Republic".


Exposure is good, I am happy for Kathy getting noticed even more. Even if it means more stupidity is revealed about others.

Speaking of Which...

Paging Rich Lucibella..., need to mop up idiot on aisle four please...

Use Enough Mop.


Steve

Chipperman
June 21, 2006, 06:44 PM
Just plain sad, on so many levels. :scrutiny:

SteveS
June 21, 2006, 07:01 PM
I remember reading that article when it came out in Concealed Carry magazine. It is articles like that one, and many others, that will keep me subscribing to that magazine. It may not apply 100% to all women, but it was very insightful and helpful. As an instructor, I see many of her points played out by my students.

Hazwaste
June 21, 2006, 07:03 PM
Sounds like some guys that are going to be spending the rest of their lives with Senor Wences.

Stiletto Null
June 21, 2006, 07:15 PM
Yeesh, more evidence that the worst enemies of gun owners are...gun owners.

gulogulo1970
June 21, 2006, 07:32 PM
That was funny and true.

Gunowners by and large really need to lighten up some.

Eleven Mike
June 21, 2006, 07:51 PM
Wow! :eek:

pax
June 21, 2006, 09:52 PM
*blink*

I did wonder where all the hate mail was coming from this morning. The tone of the mail really puzzled me because that one article has provided more hits, and generated more really flattering fan mail, than anything else on my site.

Have to admit though, I really love THR. You guys are the best, because the truly humor-impaired don't post here! :D

pax

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you: but if you really make them think, they'll hate you. -- Don Marquis

My website: www.corneredcat.com

Biker
June 21, 2006, 10:04 PM
Good God, sm, I would *revolt* if I lived in a Republic such as the one you alluded to.:uhoh:

Biker

Chris Rhines
June 21, 2006, 10:20 PM
Yee gads.

I know we in the pro-gun community have to be inclusive and accepting and all that jazz, but there some gun people out there that we'd be better off without.

- Chris

White Horseradish
June 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
I did wonder where all the hate mail was coming from this morning. The tone of the mail really puzzled me because that one article has provided more hits, and generated more really flattering fan mail, than anything else on my site.

Hate mail? You get hate mail?

You know what you oughta do? Put up a hate mail section on your website. I've seen folks do that and those were the pages that drove me to hiccups. Hate mail is usually so stupid as to be hilarious. Unless, of course, you get intelligent hate mail. ;)

Trebor
June 21, 2006, 11:57 PM
Kathy,

Your stuff is good, very good. If you aren't pissing people off from time to time, something is wrong. I'm giving out the URL of your site to my students now (among other info).

Rob

sm
June 22, 2006, 12:37 AM
Biker Wrote:
Good God, sm, I would *revolt* if I lived in a Republic such as the one you alluded to. :uhoh:

Biker,
You do. Get to revoltin'. :D
You'll see me doing it. :)

I got a wee bit ticked not long ago when some "By golly shoot 'em all let Diety sort 'em out" MEN , said :
-Black Rifles with 30 rd mags have no place being sold.
-Men were supposed to do the protecting, women were for keeping barefoot , pregnant and cooking.
-Kids don't have rights at all. Just supposed to shut up, listen, do chores and get good grades in school.

These were high dollar shotgun folks. And folks wonder why I burned MY sanctioned cards too many years ago , went rogue , and had a helluva of time taking these types of knuckledraggers money at bootleg shoots? <expletive> I / we / My kind don't take kindly to folks spitting on Freedom as outlined for The Republic for which it stands. .

They were rude, kicked at the kid's puppy, hard shouldered the mom out of the way, wearing a high dollar shotgun hat and NRA hat.

I was livid! I picked up the child, " I can walk " the child said. No I had to carry the child to keep myself in check. Mom grabbed the puppy for the same reason.

Wrong is Wrong and these MEN were flat out wrong!

Sorry, just I have my druthers and take them serious.

Steve

Working Man
June 22, 2006, 07:54 AM
I just read the replies to Pax's article. No wonder it seems like we're stalled
in the mud at times. When will these so called RKBA'ers realize that until we all
get on the same page were just like 2 mules pulling in the opposite direction...
and being too stubborn to work together gets nothing done.

The anti's seem more organized than we do a lot of times. And these people
that don't take the time to properly/seriously train and address the concerns
of those who are unfamiliar with firearms or are fence sitters may turn a strong
ally into a rabid anti. Apathy can kill just as much as bad intentions.

.... but what do I know?

Eleven Mike
June 22, 2006, 09:26 AM
Put up a hate mail section on your website. Amen, and see if you can't publish those responses from KABA as well. Some of those are jolly-well priceless.

strambo
June 22, 2006, 09:30 AM
PAX, I just read your "Best Gun For A Man" article...pretty funny stuff. Of course I already have one of those! :D Good site, keep up the good work.

Leatherneck
June 22, 2006, 10:01 AM
SMI got a wee bit ticked not long ago when some "By golly shoot 'em all let Diety sort 'em out" MEN , said :
-Black Rifles with 30 rd mags have no place being sold.
-Men were supposed to do the protecting, women were for keeping barefoot , pregnant and cooking.
-Kids don't have rights at all. Just supposed to shut up, listen, do chores and get good grades in school.

Wait. What? They changed those rules? I didn't get no stinkin' memo!

OT. Pax, you know we all secretly adore you. This place would be far, far less fun without you.


edit to add: I think White Horseradish's idea is a good one. Post the most outlandish ones for scorn and ridicule in the public eye.
TC

sparx
June 22, 2006, 12:21 PM
Pax,

Just a quick note to let you know that when I discovered your site via a post on TexasCHLforum.com about that particular article (the post in turn also referenced THR, after which a little lurking I was glad to become a member of), I thought it was excellent as I was more or less finding the same in getting my wife of 18+ years to not only join me at the range, but spark her interest in target shooting as well. (Long story why 18+ years went by before this... always had long guns around but never replaced the handguns I stupidly lost in hock before we married and just this year inherited a GLOCK 19 when my father passed away... just call me an ostrich!)

It works. We both passed our CHL class/range tests last Saturday and she loves to shoot the GLOCK 19 as much as her (new) Walther P22, and is now looking for a nice self-defense handgun that will fit her tiny hands (she's 4'11").

In short, forget the airheads that don't know what they're typing about and feel reassured that not only are your articles on the mark, but also are appreciated and used by others due to the great content they contain.

Thanks again, and please keep it up!

striker3
June 22, 2006, 12:33 PM
Wow, just Wow.

I am so glad that I found the TFL for my first RKBA message board. If I found somewhere so filled with hate, I would have turned around, never looked back and never searched for an alternative.

gunsmith
June 22, 2006, 01:02 PM
She always said I turn every conversation into a gun
conversation....I wonder why she would feel that way?:neener:

Oleg Volk
June 22, 2006, 01:06 PM
The collective IQ of the detractors improves only on their collective civility. I've met possums whose logic and learning exceeded the worthies on that thread. Expecting them to do better would be like going into a special ed section and wondering why the quality of the Socratic discourse isn't up to par...

sturmruger
June 22, 2006, 01:09 PM
There is a reason I hang out here on THR. I cannot believe how freaking stupid some of the comments Pax received on her article!!! :fire:

Her piece was well written and thought out. It made me rethink some of my interactions with my wife in the hope that I can repair some of the damage I have all ready done.

Red Tornado
June 22, 2006, 01:30 PM
Another great article Pax, quite enjoyable informative. Now I know how to keep my wife out of my guns.:evil:

BTW, the "American" comments had a familiar ring...hmmm...could it have possibly have been Gunkid?!? ;) He's got to be somewhere, and he seemed to have something against THR, like perhaps, multiple bannings. Probably related. :D
RT

sm
June 22, 2006, 01:35 PM
The collective IQ of the detractors improves only on their collective civility. I've met possums whose logic and learning exceeded the worthies on that thread. Expecting them to do better would be like going into a special ed section and wondering why the quality of the Socratic discourse isn't up to par...

:D :D :D

Excuse me, I seemed to have tumped coffee on my shirt reading that. :p

riverdog
June 22, 2006, 02:22 PM
I don't know many Pro-Gun folks who are so myopic and obtuse as the guys responding to that thread. Perhaps they aren't Pro-Gun and just use that site to turn folks away. Hmmm...?

Eleven Mike
June 22, 2006, 02:51 PM
I don't know many Pro-Gun folks who are so myopic and obtuse as the guys responding to that thread. Perhaps they aren't Pro-Gun and just use that site to turn folks away. Hmmm...?It's a nice thought but keep in mind you've never met the vast majority of pro-gun or pro-liberty people. Any idiot can have political opinions, it just depends who influences them.

nico
June 22, 2006, 04:16 PM
Pax, I thought the article was great and laughed a few times because I've seen a few instances of what you described at the range.

I'm sad to say that the majority of the people responding to the article on that site seem to represent the anti's ideal stereotype of the average gun owner: chauvanistic, uneducated, jerks. I feel sorry for the women in their lives, because it's unlikely that their attitudes are confined to guns.

if this is the general attitude of our movement (which I'm sure it's not), we're in big trouble:
I won't go through a delicate dance of massaging feelings and emotions just to get you to shoot a gun.

The best way to get someone to agree with you is to get them to arrive at your position through their own logic, not to shove it down their throat. Those men (I use the term loosely in this context :barf: ) just don't get it. A perfect example is my ex:
When we started dating, she didn't like guns. She couldn't articulate what she didn't like about them or why she disliked them, and had never seen one in person, but she "just didn't like them." We had several discussions about the topic, with me making a big effort to give her rational explanations of why I believe what I do. Each time, there was a little more in my argument that she couldn't disagree with, but she still "just didn't like them."
I eventually convinced her to go shooting with me. I started her out with my grandfather's Single Six in 22lr with a big bulls eye at 10 feet. I demonstrated what to do and then loaded the gun for her. She did very well and eventually tried my dad's S&W 910, which had too much recoil for her, so we went back to the .22. After 2 hours, she was completely comfortable handling the Single Six and her groups improved with every reload. She ended up going shooting with me a handful of times, including trap shooting twice and a trip to the rifle range. To use her words, actually handling and firing guns removed a lot of the mystery surrounding them that she had grown up with and completely changed her perspective, even warming up to the idea of CCW.
The coup de etat was the handful of heated discussions she got into with other people over gun control after her views changed.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it might be useful to see an actual example of someone's opinion changing through similar methods to the ones Pax seemed to be advocating.

AJ Dual
June 22, 2006, 06:48 PM
So what do you do when your wife's just a born contrarian, irrational, and has an argument fetish?

Whenever the obligatory monthly "Where's your spouse on guns" thread comes up in this in other forums, I identify her as "neutral", and paint a partial picture of her contridictions, but in reality, it's just the average taken from a bunch of random opinions and positions she has on guns and RKBA that are all over the map.

One day she's bragging to me that on a "mommy board" she and a bunch of other pro-gun mothers jumped down the throat of some anti-mommy who made some sweeping pronouncment that people who have kids shouldn't be allowed to have guns, guns in the house="our kids won't be friends" etc. That outraged her, as I/our household has guns, and that insulted her.

A month later we're having the argument about the fact that she thinks that because we have kids, the guns should be out of the house, and how angry she is that it's one of my "not up for negotiation" topics in our marriage.

She is nominaly agreeable that our home state of WI not having CCW is stupid, and backs pro-RKBA politicians. If asked, she acknoldeges understanding that gun-control only affects the law-abiding. However, when confronted with the realization that after my minor efforts to assist the WCCA/WCCM pass CCW here in WI, when we win, I'll be one of the first in line for a permit, and actualy intend to carry, she gets irritated.

When I express an interest in home-carry, or re-arranging our quick-access safe storage in our home for better accessability, because the electronic quick-vault by the bed on the second floor isn't much good except at night, she goes ballistic, and dismisses my arguments that "criminals don't send dated announcments in the mail".

One month later, we see a young (rather pretty) mother pushing a stroller down the sidewalk, and a car seems to be tailing her, and the male driver staring at her intently. It was "weird" enough, and the man's interest obvious enough, to get us to do a U turn on a busy street for another look. By that time, the young woman was a block up the street, and the man had just been driving slow as he parked to enter a coffee shop, and his "interest" was innocent and nothing beyond the visual… My wife wanted to stop and tell the woman what we saw, and I said no, we'd just freak the poor woman out. My wife get's irate and says I'm in denial because "That stuff happens all the time…"

:banghead:

So what's a guy supposed to do with a mixed bag of all that?

Eleven Mike
June 22, 2006, 08:45 PM
Pax, I was just looking through The Shotgun News, and I had a question. Why do women like to wear bikinis and high heels when they shoot? :p

bill2
June 22, 2006, 09:37 PM
and could not believe some of them. they sounded like a bunch of immature angry fools, the only time they're even close to being happy is when they're pounding on their key boards. this is the kind of stuff that the anti-gun crowd points out when they badmouth gun owners.
For what it's worth, Pax, I thought it was a great article. although it does take at least some functioning brain cells to understand what you were saying.

pax
June 22, 2006, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Very much appreciated -- and needed more than you know. :)

Now, a request and an apology:

THR does not do forum wars. I kind of started it, and for that I apologize profusely. Please, no more bashing.

Thanks all!

pax

I find the pain of a little censure, even when it is unfounded, is more acute than the pleasure of much praise. -- Thomas Jefferson

sm
June 22, 2006, 10:15 PM
Dear Gunhilda,
Please inform pax I will not accept her apology until:

1. She models carrying concealed in a bikini.
2. Gets her hubby or male shooting buddy to model CCW on her site.
Her choice. :)
It is fine if she wants to critique why the guy is wearing that ugly tie with that outfit...still
"What I wore today" feature is great and some women sure could educate some men.

I am not going to accept her apology until either 1 or 2 above is done.

Running for cover -

Steve


The things I do for THR - I swear! :)

stellaone
June 23, 2006, 12:51 AM
Pax- Your website is really wonderful and a great resource for women gun-owners--- for all gun-owners. I'm so grateful that you put all of that time and energy into writing it and writing it well. Pooh on those who would be too close-minded to appreciate the humor in your article.

I'll reiterate the feelings previously expressed- THR is a great website. I have learned so much from reading all of the posts here and I truly appreciate the positive attitudes displayed within the posts.

Mannlicher
June 23, 2006, 05:12 PM
I was not all that taken with the article. Sounded more like an 'anti male' tirade than anything else. Every sterotype that could have been dredged up was employed.
My wife is not a shooter. She in interested in antiques, jewelry, cameos and clothes. She does go to the range at her Brothers farm about once a year. Other than that, she is just as happy to pursue her interests, and let me pursue mine. There are no conflicts about guns in Casa Mannlicher.

CAS700850
June 24, 2006, 01:27 AM
With due espect to Pax and her request to not start a forum war, allow me to just say this...anyone who thinks that THR is nothing but a pro-SWAT, pro-LEo, anti-freedom forum really needs to spend a few moments reading the threads and posts over at L&P. I personally have been involved in a few of those battles.

Love the article, Pax. Stay the course, and keep fighting the good fight.;)

No_Brakes23
June 24, 2006, 02:07 AM
I read the article and thought, "Jeez, someone sounds a little bitter." Still a good article, though.

Then I read the responses.

I guess I can understand the mildly harsh nature of Pax's article if she deals regularly with toads like some of the commenters on that website.

Oh and WTH is all that nonsense about SWAT mag and such?

I don't know many Pro-Gun folks who are so myopic and obtuse as the guys responding to that thread. Perhaps they aren't Pro-Gun and just use that site to turn folks away. Hmmm...?

I didn't realize so many shooters were that way, as I have been mostly spoiled by good folks down here in San Diego. Also most of the shooters I have met from other states while I was in the Corps were not of that ilk. Third, spending time at THR gives a slanted perspective, since the toads stay quiet or get weeded out.

But now that I think about it, listening to my dad's stories from the doghouse and gunsmith's shop and thinking of some of the folks I sometimes hear yammering at length in the gun store, (Usually on the customer side of the counter,) I think this is a genuine element of our hobby. Oh well, that just puts it on us to behave like civil humans to counteract the jerks. Really, though that applies to any hobby or movement.

Old Fud
June 24, 2006, 03:22 AM
Anybody ever see the movie "Airplane"?
Yeah, the one that packed in every possible cliché?
Well, Pax's tale is like that.
It proves the lady has talked to a LOT of women and, Like Elizabeth Barrett
Browning, she "counts the ways" in exquisite detail.

I happen to have taught my wife how to shoot, helped her to buy her handgun, monitored her performance, and provided helpful criticism.
Let's just say I recognized myself here and there in that article and where the shoe fit, it pinched.

Oh, and that bit about "Swat" comes from the fact that Rich Lucibella owns and runs both Swat magazine and "The Firing Line".
In other words, those rabid women-hating loud-mouthed pro-gun embarrassments didn't have the foggiest notion which forum they were talking about or that there is a difference.

Pax, you've earned the respect of a lot of people by your words and deeds over the years. It was heartening to see how quickly the army of your supporters rose up and knocked that trash back.
Keep up the good work.

Fud

nelson133
June 24, 2006, 09:08 AM
I am continously irritated by people who have no understanding of political reality. To keep our gun rights we have to connect with everyone who supports them and not just everyone who supports all of our personal political positions. I don't care what anyone's position on abortion, unions, women's rights. men's rights, homosexual rights, pornography, home schooling, dog leash laws, religion, etc., etc. If you are for an unrestricted right to keep and bear arme for individual citizens them you are my brother/sister and deserve to be treated with respect. If you need to be exclusionary, if you have to have agreement on a whole range of other issues to consider another "one of us", you are making sure that the camps that they will build to hold you will be smalll enough to manage.

Byron Quick
June 24, 2006, 09:59 AM
Couldn't resist. Had to post my 2 cents. Personal failing.

Pax, good article. Hit the target apparently. The bit dog hollers.:D

hoji
June 24, 2006, 10:44 AM
My wife and I read the article and both got a good laugh.{ I see some traces of myself in there}
The people who had the nasty comments...... really have no buisness owning guns. Spending as much time at the range as I do , I see all kinds of ignorant gits, losers that put a .45 in the hands of a six year old and berate him for not being able to handle the recoil, the .44 Mag with hot loads for the slight of build girlfriend, or spouse, ... you know the type.
The comment from the instructor was brilliant" So how do they vote on gun issues now?"
My wife will not go to public ranges anymore as the people who frequent them generally suck. We have a small private range that we can use at will, so we shoot and train there.
Great article.

No_Brakes23
June 24, 2006, 12:26 PM
Anybody ever see the movie "Airplane"?
Yeah, the one that packed in every possible cliché?
Well, Pax's tale is like that.

Pax, good article. Hit the target apparently. The bit dog hollers.

I think that's the case here for sure.

Tsonda
June 25, 2006, 01:39 AM
Pax,

Great article spot on. I can't believe some of those comments.

James

gunsmith
June 30, 2006, 07:32 PM
thought the article was funny, her new guy owns one gun but isn't a right wing gun fanatic like myself......

If you enjoyed reading about "Our beloved Pax got a submission from someone on Keepandbeararms.com!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!