Moonbat gun commentary


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Otherguy Overby
June 22, 2006, 02:20 PM
This howler is from the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-bullets22jun22,0,6657483.story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials

Bullet bill right on target
Stamping cartridges will help solve homicides with missing guns.
June 22, 2006

THE CALIFORNIA SENATE is expected to vote on a bill today that would require all semiautomatic handguns sold here to include a device that marks bullets with a unique identifier so police can more easily trace cartridges found at crime scenes. The Legislature should approve the bill, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger should promptly sign it into law.

The technology, known as microstamping, is simple and has been shown effective in tests. It uses small lasers inside the gun to make precise engravings on the face of each bullet. As the weapon is fired, a serial number and the gun's make and model are stamped onto the cartridge. No two guns leave exactly the same markings.

The bill would address a persistent law-enforcement problem — most guns used in crimes aren't found. With microstamping, police need only a bullet cartridge to track owners through the state's extensive gun-sales database. Very helpful, considering that up to half of all firearms-related homicides in California go unsolved.

Stamping would help solve crimes committed using illegal or stolen guns, which are the hardest to track. For years, gun-control advocates have claimed that three-quarters of the weapons on the black market are supplied by just 1% of dealers. With this law, California would be able to look for patterns among guns involved in crimes to see if any dealers supply a disproportionate share.

The best arguments that opponents of the bill, such as the National Rifle Assn., can come up with are that the system hasn't been tried on the state level and that criminals may be able to tamper with the technology, thus rendering it unusable. That's nonsense. The inventor of microstamping — an NRA member — has repeatedly demonstrated in tests across the country how hard it is to disarm. What's more, it would add only nominal costs for gun manufacturers. Is there any reasonable gun reform the NRA won't protest?

California has some of the strongest gun laws in the country, but more are needed. The state requires extensive background checks, monthly limits on handgun purchases and records of even secondary handgun sales. This makes its gun-owner database one of the most up-to-date in the country. Adding bullets to the paper trail would help cops do their job better without impeding citizens' right to bear arms.

Those moonbats sure make it up as they go. Obviously, they are the only ones "profesional enough" to comment on technical things. Facts are just too difficult to write around...

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orangelo
June 22, 2006, 02:27 PM
And what happens when criminals start duct taping plastic grocery bags over their slides to catch the brass or picking up brass or using revolvers or shotguns?

If we got lasers and power sources small enough to fit inside the slides of pistols and powerful enough to melt metal, why aren't we shooting lasers at each other instead of primitive projectile throwing weapons??? :confused:

I want my phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range dammit.

Justin
June 22, 2006, 02:30 PM
It uses small lasers inside the gun to make precise engravings on the face of each bullet.

Yes. And they call it The Alan Parsons Project.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29698&stc=1

Ridiculous.

gopguy
June 22, 2006, 02:34 PM
This sort of reminds me of when G. Gordon Liddy was talking about his treasury department days and they were going to serialize ammo. He brought in a box of .22LR cartridges dumped them on his supervisors desk and asked where? Considering the Millions of rounds made a year it was nuts. Do the moon bats suggest outlawing all old guns so we have to buy new ones so this idiotic plan might work?:rolleyes:

taz-2005
June 22, 2006, 02:48 PM
Yes. And they call it The Alan Parsons Project

My thoughts exactly. And I'm sure the cost would be 100 billion dollars!

hillbilly
June 22, 2006, 03:38 PM
Of course, you can defeat bullets marked in this way by merely wearing meat helmets, especially if they are made by a Belgian boulangerie owner with mild narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery.

wingnutx
June 22, 2006, 03:41 PM
If a laser can etch the make and model of the gun on each bullet, maybe I could rig mine to etch the target's name on them instead.

taliv
June 22, 2006, 04:48 PM
that's the funniest thing i've read in a long time. thanks for posting.

here's my letter to latimes editors

Dear Editors,

It's your contention then, that it's feasible to install a laser engraving system that is
small enough to fit in any make/model of firearm, presumably sans radical design change,
powerful enough to write on copper (common bullet jacket material),
precise and fast enough to write quite a bit of info that would be legible to a microscope,
as the bullet is moving down the barrel at generally supersonic speeds (presuming you want to write on the base of the bullet, since it's the only part that might not be totally deformed on impact),
and that it is strong enough to survive extreme recoil, cleaning solvents, pressures up to 50,000 PSI, and intense heat,
with some mechanism to prevent its lens from being coated with carbon and copper fouling (which takes considerable effort to remove by hand from the barrel, using very strong solvents and brushes),
with some way to program it with the make/model and a counter to increment the serial #,
and all that adding only a "nominal cost"?

I realize you know nothing about firearms or technology in general, or even the senate bill in question, or for that matter, journalism, but I really want to know one thing: do you actually expect criminals to keep putting fresh batteries in their guns?

warm regards,
-Tom

TallPine
June 22, 2006, 05:02 PM
so are they going to make revolvers illegal too ...? :confused: :rolleyes:

Riktoven
June 22, 2006, 05:09 PM
California doesn't need gun control laws. They need immigration laws to be enforced.

What do they expect from the 1/3 of their population that are criminals by their very presence? What would deter that 33% of the population from breaking one more in a long list of broken laws?

Guns don't murder; exploited hungry people who face no significant punishment for their crimes sometimes do though.

Anti-gun activists crack me up with their logic. I mean, they have statistic on top of statistic claiming the Latino community is the source for much of the violence, and so their plan is to make firearms complicated and expensive so that the Police can solve crimes easier? Give me a break. Do these people understand that firearms are made in every country in the world? If you can't stop people from WALKING into your state illegally, what makes you think you can make them leave the guns they already have down south?

I wonder if Schwartzeneger's parents had any kids that lived?

Thefabulousfink
June 22, 2006, 05:09 PM
None of you have asked the REALLY important question.....

...Will I be able to get one for my fully automatic revolver.:neener: :evil:

Sylvan-Forge
June 22, 2006, 05:13 PM
taliv,
good stuff :D

kludge
June 22, 2006, 05:22 PM
Taliv,

Yeah, I was gonna mention the battery thing... Does the gun still fire when the battery is dead, or does a dead battery make the weapon inoperable?:D

This is absolutely the stupidest[sic] idea I've ever heard; utterly farcical. Anyone have a link to the makers website?

And... here's the kicker...

Why would a criminal buy a gun that he knows would be traced back to him...:D

...Ooops, my bad, criminals aren't allowed to buy guns, it says so right on the form...:D

Hey... who do they think will buy these guns anyway... oh... I get it... they're banning guns without repealing the 2nd Amendment...

Monkeyleg
June 22, 2006, 05:24 PM
Oh, so many mistakes in that article to criticize, and so little time.

"Very helpful, considering that up to half of all firearms-related homicides in California go unsolved."

Here in Milwaukee, the PD has a homicide clearance rate of over 90%. It would be cheaper to have some Milwaukee PD officers go to California and teach CA officers how to conduct investigations.

"California has some of the strongest gun laws in the country, but more are needed."

If the laws were working, you wouldn't need more laws.

"The inventor of microstamping an NRA member..."

P.T. Barnum may have been an NRA member, too, but that didn't stop him from saying that there's a sucker born every minute.

Hoppy590
June 22, 2006, 05:30 PM
a gun used by a criminal was probible obtained illegaly ( stolen, black market.. ect) so tracing it back to a legal owner serves no purpose

criminals are just gunna use old guns that dont have the laser system

companys like norinco arnt gunna install those things

just go into the gun and block the laser or cut the wires

the amount of power needed would be rediculous

Otherguy Overby
June 22, 2006, 06:43 PM
The BOZO editorial writer mixed up two recent California gun control strategies:

Bullet serialization where bullets and cases are given serial numbers at the factory which would then require record keeping at every step. Logistically nearly impossible.

Microstamping of the gun chamber, breechface and firing pin. Said information would then be transferred to the cartridge when fired. I've no idea how this could be successfully be done to a fired bullet.

Lastly, the all the laser etching or engraving is done at the manufacturing level. Laser technology to do this inside the gun itself is impossible with current technology.

Stupidity is infinite.

Kentak
June 22, 2006, 07:38 PM
Sounds like a backdoor way to ban guns. Mandate a feature that's technically impossible.

Seriously though, wouldn't a serial number engraved in the chamber imprint each case?

K

ABTOMAT
June 22, 2006, 07:50 PM
Do any of these people realize that a serial number in a chamber or on an firing pin could just be ground off? Think they're going to outlaw Dremel tools next?

Sounds like a backdoor way to ban guns. Mandate a feature that's technically impossible.

Heck, that's what they've nearly done in MA.

Kentak
June 22, 2006, 07:57 PM
To the editors:

Regarding your error-filled editorial about stamping bullets with that miniature laser in the guns, I have a similar idea.

How about requiring a serial number on all editorials published in the country identifying the writer? That way readers could look for patterns of total idiocy and avoid those nonsensical blurbs.

answerguy
June 22, 2006, 09:47 PM
When I saw that article I had to check two things. First to see if it was dated April Fool's Day and second to see if it was from a satirical web site like the Onion.com. Since it was neither of those I have to ask: Is the writer an idiot or a liar?

BTW- if you'd like to let the LA Times how you feel-
letters@latimes.com

Otherguy Overby
June 22, 2006, 10:27 PM
answerguy:

When I saw that article I had to check two things. First to see if it was dated April Fool's Day and second to see if it was from a satirical web site like the Onion.com. Since it was neither of those I have to ask: Is the writer an idiot or a liar?


No, my friend, it's the LA Times. They are mostly a bunch of monkeys with typewriters. The are, apparently, still working on Shakespear...

cuchulainn
June 23, 2006, 07:18 AM
Silly humans and your primative projectile weapons! Our psyonic grafters are imprinted with the owner drone's scent, restricting access, and each contrabulation is immediately downloaded to the hivemind for processing and evaluation by the third-tier security overlord servants of Queen, may her eggs be eternally fertile!

Norton
June 23, 2006, 08:13 AM
It would be unwise of us to think that they are really stupid enough to believe that this will work.

As someone has already said, it is a ban on guns in California without having to enact a ban. They sell this bill to the legislature and it passes. Arnold folds and signs it into law because he knows a veto will be overridden.

Presto....no new guns in CA because the technology simply doesn't exist and the gun banners get their goal all the while being able to maintain plausible deniability that they were only working for safer guns and capturing criminals but those bad ol' gun manufacturers wouldn't implement the supposedly availabble technology demanded by the new law.

No different than what MD did with the ballistic fingerprinting. They required a fired shell casing for the IBIS system in spite of the fact that the program was defunded and no new shell casings were being entered into the system.

The fact that the system can not, in any way, be considered functional is irrelevant. What us relevant is that MD law still requires the fired shell casing and there are many manufacturers who smply refuse to supply a shell casing for a small firearms market like MD and, once again, PRESTO a defacto gun ban without calling it such. :banghead:

answerguy
June 28, 2006, 02:10 PM
my comment to the LA TIMES:
There is no such thing as a laser that can engrave bullet cases as they
are fired. Don't your writers confirm things like this before going to print?

Their reply:

Thank you for writing to the readers' representative office. A correction
on the editorial, Right on Target, was published in yesterday's newspaper. I
have pasted it below in case you've not seen it.

Thank you for writing to point this out.

Maura E. Montellano
Readers' representative office


For The Record
Los Angeles Times Monday June 26, 2006
Home Edition California Part B Page 10 Editorial Pages Desk
1 inches; 51 words
Type of Material: Correction
Guns: An editorial on Thursday about a new technology that gives bullets
a unique identifier said it uses a small laser inside the gun to mark each
bullet. Lasers are used to etch engravings on the gun parts that are used in the
process, but they are not inside the gun.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I quess I have to give them credit for this.

Gary

El Tejon
June 28, 2006, 02:20 PM
Will California ban reloading next?:uhoh:

torpid
June 28, 2006, 02:36 PM
Is the writer an idiot or a liar?

I've found that many writers can be both at the same time very easily.

.

Lou629
June 28, 2006, 02:46 PM
And here i had been thinking that the politicians reserved idiocy like this just for those of us still stuck here in NJ...

Stickjockey
June 28, 2006, 02:50 PM
Seriously though, wouldn't a serial number engraved in the chamber imprint each case?

Right up to the point where someone took a Dremel or emery board to the breechface and polished it off, or filled it in with weld/solder/epoxy.

Ira Aten
June 28, 2006, 02:58 PM
StickJockey:
Those photographs were very enjoyable.

Stickjockey
June 28, 2006, 03:16 PM
You mean the airplane pictures?

Pete Mancus posts here occasionally; there's a few of us have a link to his Cloud9 Photography site, helpin' out with the ratings.:cool:

Master Blaster
June 28, 2006, 03:50 PM
Dear editor, I read your hilarious nonsensical article regarding bullet stamping to deter crime dated June 22.
Were you taken over by space aliens from the national enquirer???

The reason I ask is because the 9th circus (not circuit) court ruled a few years ago that criminals could not be prosecuted under the gun registration law for failure to register their weapons, because it violated their 5th amendment protections against self incrimination.

Isn't the editorial staff at the LA times, or the California legislature worried that having criminals use these guns will also violate their rights under the 5th amendment??
After all this would be requiring them to incriminate themselves, if you required the serial number on all ammunition or the stamping technology be used in all Guns.

You folks really are hilarious.

DWARREN123
June 28, 2006, 04:31 PM
I going to get me one soon as I get some hi-cap magazines for my revolvers!:neener:

Sistema1927
June 28, 2006, 04:36 PM
Sure glad that I just purchased a S&W 22-4. If I ever have to shoot anyone in California I will just make sure to pocket the moon clip with my six empties prior to loading a fresh moon clip. Even if S&W secretly snuck in some "laser micro-engraving" on my new weapon without me knowing about it (along with the "Infernal Lock"), I won't leave any shell casings around for them to find.

(If the antis would just spend a fraction of the time that they devote to dreaming up ways to deprive us of our rights trying to solve the real problems....)

Knucklehead2
June 28, 2006, 05:46 PM
You may have missed this part:

California has some of the strongest gun laws in the country, but more are needed. The state requires extensive background checks, monthly limits on handgun purchases and records of even secondary handgun sales. This makes its gun-owner database one of the most up-to-date in the country. Adding bullets to the paper trail would help cops do their job better without impeding citizens' right to bear arms.

See the part where more laws are needed. Part of that new law will have you leave your casings at the scene. Its hard to pull the wool over the eyes of CA legislators! Sarcasm of course.

kludge
June 28, 2006, 05:55 PM
answerguy's reply from LA Times:For The Record
Los Angeles Times Monday June 26, 2006
Home Edition California Part B Page 10 Editorial Pages Desk
1 inches; 51 words
Type of Material: Correction
Guns: An editorial on Thursday about a new technology that gives bullets
a unique identifier said it uses a small laser inside the gun to mark each
bullet. Lasers are used to etch engravings on the gun parts that are used in the
process, but they are not inside the gun.

It will probably also be illegal to alter/destroy those markings.

And I suppose the criminals will follow that law to the letter.

Just like they follow the rest of them.

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