"Iraq" - right here on your southern border


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longeyes
June 22, 2006, 02:31 PM
3 Officers Among 4 Decapitated in Mexico
Police were responding to a kidnapping report when met by 100 armed men, witnesses say.
By Richard Marosi, Times Staff Writer
June 22, 2006

SAN DIEGO Mexican authorities discovered the decapitated bodies of three police officers and a fourth man Wednesday near an empty lot in the seaside town of Rosarito Beach, about 15 miles south of the border.

The officers had gone missing Tuesday after responding to a report of a kidnapping. Witnesses said that the officers were intercepted by about 100 heavily armed, masked men dressed as Mexican federal agents, said a spokesman for the Baja California state attorney general's office.

The men's bodies showed signs of torture. Their heads were found in Tijuana, several miles away. Authorities said the men were the victims of an organized crime hit, the latest in a string of killings or attempted killings of law enforcement officials in Baja California.

Rosarito Beach, a popular weekend destination for Southern Californians, is also a heavily contested transshipment point for drug traffickers.

One of the victims Benjamin Fabian Ventura, was the bodyguard of Rosarito Beach's former police chief, Carlos Bowser Miret, who was killed in an ambush slaying last year.

The other dead police officers are Jesus Hernandez Ballesteros and Ismael Arellano Torres. The fourth man was not identified.

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Devonai
June 22, 2006, 02:43 PM
Hopefully this will have some bearing on whether or not my siblings in the National Guard who are going down there will be able to "lock and load."

Biker
June 22, 2006, 02:47 PM
Aaaaaannnnnnd....the band played on.

Biker

NevJohn
June 22, 2006, 04:34 PM
This is one good reason I've never , nor will I ever go to Mexico. Just bought into this new subdivision, and I think I am the only "gringo" around in the neighborhood. What I mean, is that all the construction workers are mexicans, and none speak english at all. Well, I will clarify that... the supervisor of the const does, but he told me that if I ever asked any of the workers anything, they'll just shake their heads and say, "no speaky english". Dunno if legal or illegals, but in this 107 degree heat, they are the only folks that will work in that element, so I cant bad mouth them for that. I guess if it wasnt for them, we'd not have the construction boom that is going on in the southwest.

John

Hoppy590
June 22, 2006, 04:39 PM
hmm, and they wonder why we want to put up a fence?

looks like after iraq is finished, and NKorea and Iran cool down, we should march back to the Halls Of Montezuma and start cleaning stuff up.

slzy
June 22, 2006, 04:41 PM
if we have to depend on illegal aliens,i would just as soon not another nail get hammered.

engineer151515
June 22, 2006, 05:55 PM
they are the only folks that will work in that element, so I cant bad mouth them for that. I guess if it wasnt for them, we'd not have the construction boom that is going on in the southwest

No.

Many types of ethnic groups built the railroads / towns across the West.

But...

Employers would have to raise wages until they could fill the jobs. Fair market value.

Don't buy into this "jobs Americans won't do" BS.

Biker
June 22, 2006, 06:09 PM
The boom in the southwest is due to immigration - illegal in particular. They're building for *themselves* at our expense.
Someone done put sand in the vaseline.

Biker

joab
June 22, 2006, 06:13 PM
As a 14 year old I contributed to the housing and construction boom in Fla.
And that was in the summer and hurricane months

90 degrees and 90% humidity.

There weren't many illegals around then, just a bunch of hard working American teens doing the jobs that Americans wouldn't do

Ira Aten
June 22, 2006, 06:56 PM
Quote:
"Dunno if legal or illegals, but in this 107 degree heat, they are the only folks that will work in that element, so I cant bad mouth them for that. I guess if it wasnt for them, we'd not have the construction boom that is going on in the southwest."



Do you seriously believe "they are the only folks that will work in this heat?"

I am a Gringo. But it is interesting, that from the time I was seventeen years old til I was about twenty eight, I (and all my buddies I ran with) worked on constructions jobs, and spent a lot of time on brick jobs in South Texas chemical plants.

It was not only well over 107 degree heat inside the catcracker units we worked in but we had the added fun of sharing the units in the late spring and early summer, with about ten milion mosquitoes. They were so big you couldn't wear your hard hat.

(Reason was if you never worked on the Texas Gulf Coast, the skeeters were so big every time they hit your hard hat the ringing went on for almost an hour :)

(Okay, so it really only rang for about ten minutes) but my point is this. I'm a Gringo, and so were all my friends, AND AT THAT TIME, CONSTRUCTION HANDS WERE PAID EXTREMELY WELL. We took every gig we were offered, and were happier than a bunch of drunk Indians about the pay, and the amount of hours we could work.

But there were very, very few Mojados working on the jobs back then. In fact I specifically recall a three month gig of 7/12's building pipe racks at the Baytown plastics unit, and we had a total of two laborers on a crew of about fifteen from our company on site that were Mexicans, and they had resident alien cards, so they were not illegals. Today, as you say, there are virtually no Gringos. But I don't buy for one minute, that it is the heat. Back then, we did not have a Government that would allow TWELVE MILLION PEOEPLE to illegal waltz into the county, but now we have a Government that tries to tell us "The law cannot be enforced" in the United States, but alternatively, we are asked to believe we can do it in Iraq?

Point is, back when the Unitd States enforced Immigration Law, the company HAD to pay us a decent, attractive wage. (Otherwise, I assure you, we would not have shown up at 6:15 a.m at the plant gate, seven days a week, for three straight months in a row, for a twelve hour day for three full months, and not miss a day in Texas heat, mosquitoes, and come to think of it, the risk of being blown to pieces in a chemical plant if a leak went off)

And on residential housing construction, compare the quality of construction and detailed craftsmanship in a house built by illegal aliens for six bucks an hour, with the kind of work done (on average) with those from about 1976 through 1989, and I bet you'll see a slight difference in quality.

Nowdays, Builders will give you what you will stand by for, and if you complain about substandard work they get by with telling the customer, "We can't get anyone to work!"

What it is, is they won't pay a decent wage. Sure, you can get a guy from China to work for you for a daily ration of food probably, if you could get them over here. But then, you'd have twelve million illegals standing around, and everyone would say "We can't get any Mexicans to work out in this heat!"

It's not a racial issue, it's a poverty issue.

Otherguy Overby
June 22, 2006, 07:08 PM
I think everyone here has noticed the price of goods going up rapidly, lately. Of course the government figures a way to compile the statistics so to show us inflation isn't a problem.

Could cheap labor be via immigration be an actual government strategy to reduce inflation? If the true inflation figures got out, it might absolutely kill the economy.

So, is our oh so helpful government doing some creatful fiddling on the books to delay things while America burns?

Zedicus
June 22, 2006, 07:14 PM
but in this 107 degree heat, they are the only folks that will work in that element,

I used to Work in 120 degree heat, so don't give me that BS!.:mad:

Ira Aten
June 22, 2006, 07:15 PM
Otherguy:

One never knows, do one?

But I thinks you're on to somethingthere. I do believe so.

Otherwise, how do you explain the lunatic like statements ejaculated from mouths of the "heads of governemnt".

Malice
June 22, 2006, 07:17 PM
Really?

Well, the hardest home construction job to do in the summer months is putting on the roofs.

During the summer months, I work as a roofer for my local school district.

I only get paid $8.73 an hour, minus taxes and so forth.

I am a white, middle class, 19 year old college student.

If the district paid me what contractors paid illegals, I would be overjoyed. Under the table, no taxes to boot!

So why dont I work for a contractor?

Because I am white, and a citizen. I do not speak Spainish and could not communicate with my "co-workers". I refuse to be paid under the table. Contractors in Texas do not use legal labor, period. As a rule.

If contractors in my area paid college and high school kids $11 before taxes to roof houses and lay tile and pour concrete... I can speak for all my male friends when I say that it would be everyones next summer job.

Most of them are home from school just like me but getting paid $6 an hour working retail of foodservice jobs, pulling 30 hours a week if they are lucky.

I work 40-50 hours a week and make a higher wage than them, and they are all very jealous.

WAKE UP.

Malice
June 22, 2006, 07:23 PM
Ira Aten:

You are right on but you are missing somthing.

They do not pay illegals $6 an hour. Around Houston, at least, I know for a fact that depending on the kind of job they do, and other factors, they get paid anywhere from $8-20 an hour, straight cash. Even if it was $6 cash, that is pretty equivalent to my $8.73 before taxes.

longeyes
June 22, 2006, 07:29 PM
Could cheap labor be via immigration be an actual government strategy to reduce inflation? If the true inflation figures got out, it might absolutely kill the economy.

I recently read a study that suggested the CPI is understated by nearly three per cent. Government's been massaging the formula for a long time now--no food, no energy, no home prices per se. They don't want us to see the real picture, and they certainly don't want any of the inflation-pegged indices (think Social Security payouts) going up.

longeyes
June 22, 2006, 07:31 PM
Footnote, inflation: two-income families have become a two-edged sword. More family wealth, much higher societal prices thereby. Would we have $700K condos if we still had one-income families?

Parker Dean
June 22, 2006, 09:33 PM
Somewhat back on topic, I heard a news report on the radio this afternoon in Laredo that 21 officers that had previously volunteered to go to Nuevo Laredo are now quitting and going back to the city from which they had come. The report finished by speculating that they had been threatened by drug dealers.

Ya think?

longeyes
June 22, 2006, 09:51 PM
Narco-economics became more than a "police" problem a long time ago. It can only be quashed by a massive application of military power or taking all profit out of it. Which scenario is really more plausible remains to be seen.

Lupinus
June 22, 2006, 10:11 PM
when I hear white americans wont do the job,......I find it funny how many white americans I know who work construction and are out of work right now because the mexicans will do it for a couple of dollars less under the table, plus less administration fees and potential trouble. A mexican that spains his ankle isn't going to try to get workmens comp or medical coverage.

mordechaianiliewicz
June 23, 2006, 05:15 AM
Well, longeyes, in order to effectively stop drugs in a military fashion, we would have to use some kind of biological plague on Colombia, Venezuela, Southeast Asia, Afghanistan, the Harz Mountains of Germany, Morocco, Virginia, etc. designed to wipe out all plant life in that area. and then have a massive police state to make absolutely sure no one took drugs.

No, legalization is the way to go in every way. Albeit with some ammount of regulation to avoid excesses.

As far as the immigration thing goes, what everyone is saying here is the crux of the issue. Myself, I would be working construction in my area (which is booming in size) if it weren't for everything that has been said. Oh, and here in Western MO, Eastern KS, day labour for "heavy labour" jobs runs $40-$60 a day if the Mexican is lucky, and if he injures himself (as often happens in the construction trade), he is outta luck. Right now I make about $100 a day b/f taxes, have retirement, benefits, etc.

Oh, and that reminds me.... If they kick out the illegals, and Americans do labour jobs for $15 or more an hour, (which is about what it would take), people like me are either getting a pay raise, or finding a wonderfull new career in the manual trades.

This isn't just about manual labour, it is also about all the other professions which will have a market imposed minimum wage as opposed to a government imposed one. Right now, many technical, sales based, etc., jobs are being kept artificially low b/c of illegal immigration, and/or outsourcing.

Tokugawa
June 23, 2006, 11:34 AM
One of the reasons to pay cash to illegals , is the unintended consequence of all the soc. security, workmens comp, unemployment, etc. Its not just the slightly lower wage to the worker the contractors are saving, it's the huge chunk of taxation the worker never sees anyway.

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 12:29 PM
Dude, The Permian Basin... Odessa, Texas and The Yates Oil Field... 120's at times and dryer than you can believe... There are plenty of folks that are not illegal immigrants that BUILT and are WORKING in the fields...

People work FOR MONEY!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

Some girls will screw a 400 pound unwashed gorilla for enough money... What the heck are you talking about JOBS AMERICANS WILL NOT DO.

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 01:39 PM
Mordechai*,

I'm with you: Legalize and take the money out of it. Where things go from there in much of the world that lives off the illegal drug trade remains to be seen. They migrate to more advanced parts of the world? They just die off? We are looking at serious upheaval no matter what we do, but I think finding a way to remove the profit motive from the narco-economy is essential.

There are a lot of labor issues floating around this issue. Let us not forget all of the "elite" positions have removed themselves, by law or by custom, from the ordinary market pressures. I'm talking about the whole issue of LICENSING and how that skews our entire economy. Add tenure and other job "protections" to that. Add "closed professions." We are building two great classes: protected labor and unprotected labor. Something's got to give.

Master Blaster
June 23, 2006, 03:04 PM
When I was in College and high school, I worked for a landscaper, and for a lawn service I was paid $8 an hour. The years were 1979-1983, there was not a single mexican working for our outfit or any other landscaper or lawn service. It was hot dirty work, covered in Sweat, dirt and grass dust all day.
Other friends worked in construction, we all made about double the minimum wage then.... There were plenty of other americans willing to do this work. I got paid on the books, SS workers comp etc.


Now all of the lawn service and landscape crews I see are short and Brown, and they dont speak english.....

Funny that...

NineseveN
June 23, 2006, 03:22 PM
I dont know many illegal aliens that work in Dry-cleaning shops. I managed one for about 2 years, 107 degrees is a joke compared to that heat AND humidity from the boilers and the steam presses, not to mention the 'perc' fumes and other cleaning agents, I can't imagine a service industry with a more hazardous and unfriendly work environment...and the pressers and taggers don't make much more than about $6.50 an hour (9.50 for a really experienced worker or in a high-profile shop), BEFORE taxes.

When you load, unload and press about 5000 pounds of clothing a day in that environment, well, cry me a river about hammering some nails and drywalling (neither of which is particularly easy, but not much more labor intensive than the drycleaning and laundering tasks).

Davo
June 23, 2006, 03:45 PM
Cough.

The mexican mob regularly tortures and kills people in my county, they leave the bodies in areas where they know local "immigrants" will see everything. Hangings, evisceration, and GSW's are typical. Sometimes they use barbed wire. Next morning I get to pick em up or hand em off to the coroner.
Thing is I dont know how this is possible because they are just here to work hard at the jobs Americans wont do, really they are doing us a favor.

Correia
June 23, 2006, 03:53 PM
Okay, 90% of the posts on this thread have nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread. Putting this one down.

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