The Myraid of ".38" Ammunition

[LoneCoon]

On a trip to my local Gunshop, one Olde English outfitters in Dayton, I picked up a box of ammunition marked "38 Super +P" thinking "Hey, I haven't seen commerical +P ammo in a long time. Great! I'll buy a box and see how it shoots!"

On bringing it home and actually reading the box, however, I discovered that it is .38 Super Auto +P. Alright, fine, i've got a box of ammo I can't use. It's not the only ammo I have no gun for (20 rounds of British .303 and a box of .32 Auto that I have no idea where it came from).

It occured to me that there are a lot of handguns over the years that come in the ".38" calibers. A quick glance through my reloading manual brings up everything from the .380 Auto to the .357 Maximum.

The question I pose is what makes a bullet of .358 such a popular size for guns?

[jonnyc]

Uh...what's the difference between the two, if you have a modern pistol? As far as I know, .38 Auto (ACP) is dimensionally the same as .38 Super, just loaded a bit lighter. If your pistol is chambered for Super, both should be OK. Of course, the reverse is not true.

[LoneCoon]

No, no. I don't own a .38 Super. I didn't even know that .38 super was an ammuniton type until I looked up when I got home. I own a .357 and a .38 revolver.

[jonnyc]

Ah...got ya'.

Buyer beware.

[Deer Hunter]

What type of ammo did you think it was? .38 special +P?

[m0ntels]

Actually 380, 38 Super, 38 ACP, and 9mm are .355-.356" while 38 Special, 357Mag and Max are .357-.358" generally.

As for why are there so many .355" and .357" projectiles, I'm sure it's due to the fact that it's always easier to come up with a new cartridge using what you have available to you. Both have been around for about 100 years now, so they've had more time to evolve. Same holds true with the .30 and .45 calibers.

The .355" is the US measurement for 9mm, so that explains that size as it started out in Europe. For the .357" in US orginated cartridges, that has to do with the old style heeled bullets (mushroom shaped) where the diameter used to be .38" and who knows where they came up with that number...but that holds true with most English measurements.

Just going by memory and assumption on all this, so it should be pretty close to the right answer...lol

Randy

[Sharps Shooter]

"The question I pose is what makes a bullet of .358 such a popular size for guns?"

Actually, 38 Supers shoot 9mm bullets - either .355" or .356".
No offense, but it sounds as if you might want to hit the books before going shopping for ammo again. Frank Barnes' "Cartridges Of The World" is a good one.
You hadn't seen commercial +P ammo in a long time? Where have you been looking?

[ugaarguy]

It occured to me that there are a lot of handguns over the years that come in the ".38" calibers. A quick glance through my reloading manual brings up everything from the .380 Auto to the .357 Maximum.

The question I pose is what makes a bullet of .358 such a popular size for guns?

Ok folks lets not argue the OP's lack of detailed super gun guru knowledge. He posts an interesting question; There is a divers selection of cartridges in the 9mm/.38/.357/.356 diameter range. Why is this so?

Perhaps it is the evolution of the 38 from Short Colt to Long Colt to S&W Special to 357 Magnum that made that bullet size available, familiar, and comfortable.

Perhaps rounds of that diameter simply work in handguns. In the case of the 38 Special, 380 Auto, 9x18 Makarov, 38 Auto, 38 Super Auto, and 9x19 they offer more power than the 25s and 32s; yet they do not give the heavier recoil, and subsequently longer recovery time between shots, of the 40 plus caliber cartridges.

In the case of the 357 Magnum it is the evolution of the old 38s into a Magnum caliber that almost any adult can comfortably handle, unlike, say a 41 or 44 Mag. The 357 SIG closely approximates, in labratory conditions, the performance of the 125gr SJHP/JHP 357 Mag loads; almost mythical and legendary as manstopping, fight ending loads. The 9x25 Dillon I can't answer as I lack knowledge about its specifics. The same goes for the 9x23, etc.

I know this is a generalization and far from comprehensive, but its an attempt to make some sense of the variety of 9mm/38/etc size cartridges.

[browningguy]

I can't answer why, but I can suggest this is an excellent reason to go buy a 1911 in .38 Super.

[Croyance]

People are leaving out two semi-auto calibers, both bottlenecks:
.357 Sig - a .40 S&W necked down to a .355" round and
.38 Casull - a .45 ACP necked down to the same

[m0ntels]

The 38 Colt and 9mm were both military cartidges from the beginning. This means literally tons of components laying around at good prices. That's how most new cartidges start.

The 9x25 Dillion was brought up. Competition shooters wanted something that would equal the performance of the 38 Super but with lower pressure. The 38 Super makes as much chamber pressure as most rifles. The Super could be loaded down to 9mm levels, but then it wasnt up to the energy needed to compete with. What the people at Dillon did to keep the energy up but pressures down was to increase case volume. They used 10mm brass that was necked down to accept the 9mm projectile. Now they can load cartridges to 38 Super levels or beyond without the super high pressure of the original round, and it is still of a size to fit in the pistols that fire 38 Super.

No new components needed, no new guns needed to be designed. The people got what they wanted with the only new expense being a barrel, magazine, and new reloading dies. All the other catridges mentioned in this thread for the most part were made the same way. It's all about people adapting what they have to make what they want.

Seriously, every shooter who really likes to understand this sport should get a copy of Cartridges of the World. It has hundreds of cartridges you've never heard of and tells you their history and lets you compare them to each other. It even gives loading data if you're into that. For under $20 it is something you'll end up reading cover to cover many times.

Randy

[Jim Watson]

The .38 - 9mm family of cartridges go back to the nominal .36 cap and ball guns which fired a round ball weighing about 1/5 oz - 80 to the pound.
.44-.45 caliber started out muzzleloaders firing quarter ounce balls.

There are several other even ball weight relationships that connect muzzleloaders to breechloaders, mostly shotguns, though. Time you allowed for "windage" and a wad, the .75 Brown Bess is just a 12 bore, the .69 Charleville, a 16 gauge.

[warwagon]

Hey there from your neck of the woods!

All .38 super now is marked +p, just take them back, I'm sure they will either refund, or trade for what you wanted, good folks in my experience.

(by the way, if you want to go shooting some time, pm me)

Best,

Blair