Seven arrested in Sears Tower jihad attack plot...more arrests to come


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hillbilly
June 22, 2006, 11:58 PM
This is what I think will finally cause the next major attack on US soil.

It will be jihadists, homegrown, without "official" connections to Al Qaeda.

But they will be in total agreement with Al Qaeda.

Just like the plotters arrested in Canada recently.

The radical, fundamentalist Wahhabist strain of Islam has, at its heart, a worldview that is incompatible with Western civilization.

If you don't believe me, just go read what those jihadists have said over and over and over themselves. Go look at their actions. Go look at the justifications they give for their bloody actions.

That's why this is World War IV.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_on_re_us/terrorism_investigation


By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
8 minutes ago



MIAMI - Seven people were arrested Thursday in connection with the early stages of a plot to attack Chicago's Sears Tower and other buildings in the U.S., including the FBI office here, a federal law enforcement official said.

As part of the raids related to the arrests, FBI agents swarmed a warehouse in Miami's Liberty City area, using a blowtorch to take off a metal door. One neighbor said the suspects had been sleeping in the warehouse while running what seemed to be a "military boot camp."

The official told The Associated Press the alleged plotters were mainly Americans with no apparent ties to al-Qaida or other foreign terrorist organizations. He spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to pre-empt news conferences planned for Friday in Washington and Miami.

Miami U.S. Attorney R. Alexander Acosta said in a statement that the investigation was an ongoing operation and that more details would be released Friday.

"There is no imminent threat to Miami or any other area because of these operations," said Richard Kolko, spokesman for FBI headquarters in Washington. He declined further comment.

FBI Director Robert Mueller, questioned about the case during an appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," said he couldn't offer many details because "it's an ongoing operation."

"We are conducting a number of arrests and searches" in Miami, Mueller said, which were expected to be wrapped up Friday morning.

Residents living near the warehouse said the men taken into custody described themselves as Muslims and had tried to recruit young people to join their apparently militaristic group.

The residents said FBI agents spent several hours in the neighborhood showing photos of the suspects and seeking information. They said the men, who appeared to be in their teens or 20s, had lived in the area about a year.

The men slept in the warehouse, said Tashawn Rose, 29. "They would come out late at night and exercise. It seemed like a military boot camp that they were working on there. They would come out and stand guard."

She talked to one of the men about a month ago: "They seemed brainwashed. They said they had given their lives to Allah."

Rose said the men tried to recruit her younger brother and nephew for a karate class. "It was weird," she said.

Benjamin Williams, 17, said the group had young children with them sometimes. Sometimes, he added, the men "would cover their faces. Sometimes they would wear things on their heads, like turbans."

Xavier Smith, who attends the nearby United Christian Outreach, said the men would often come by the church and ask for water.

"They were very private," said Smith, 33. "The spoke with like an accent, sort of a Jamaican accent."

Gov. Jeb Bush was briefed on the situation Thursday, according to his spokeswoman, Alia Faraj.

"We have great confidence in the federal, state and local law enforcement agencies who are committed to keeping our country safe," Faraj said.

She added that there has been greater communication between state and federal agencies since the 2001 terror attacks.

The 110-floor Sears Tower is the nation's tallest building. Security was ramped up after the Sept. 11 attacks, and the 103rd-floor skydeck was closed for about a month and a half.

A spokesman for Gov. Rod Blagojevich said Illinois officials had been in contact with the FBI about the arrests and the investigation. He would not comment further, referring additional questions to the FBI.

The FBI's headquarters in Miami sits near a residential neighborhood just east of Interstate 95.

A huge crowd — up to 250,000 people — was expected downtown Friday for a parade to honor the NBA champion Miami Heat. Security measures consistent with such an event were in place, city officials said, and the raids were not expected to affect it.

Several terrorism investigations have had south Florida links. Several of the Sept. 11 hijackers lived and trained in the area, including ringleader Mohamed Atta, and several plots by Cuban-Americans against Fidel Castro's government have been based in Miami.

Jose Padilla, a former resident once accused of plotting to detonate a radioactive bomb in the U.S., is charged in Miami with being part of a support cell for Islamic extremists. Padilla's trial is set for this fall.

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Daniel T
June 23, 2006, 12:02 AM
The descriptions of their actions seems pretty amature. A decoy perhaps? I hope not.

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 12:13 AM
Just another aspect of the racial, ethnic, and religious fragmentation this country is going to experience.

QuickDraw
June 23, 2006, 01:30 AM
One neighbor said the suspects had been sleeping in the warehouse while running what seemed to be a "military boot camp."

And that didn't seem suspicious?

Autolycus
June 23, 2006, 04:57 AM
The FBI's headquarters in Miami sits near a residential neighborhood just east of Interstate 95.

Why is that imporatant?

mordechaianiliewicz
June 23, 2006, 05:30 AM
Just another aspect of the racial, ethnic, and religious fragmentation this country is going to experience.

~longeyes


Once again, longeyes hits the nail on the head. No more explanation necessary. Just because the Muslim population has decided on violence ahead of time doesn't mean that Hispanics, Blacks, and Whites won't in the future.

Brett Bellmore
June 23, 2006, 07:47 AM
Huh. NPR seemed a bit vague about who the alleged terrorists were, this morning; They even suggested they might be a "right wing militia"! :rolleyes:

The_Antibubba
June 23, 2006, 09:04 AM
The Yahoo article said one of them claimed they were "the Seas of David".

Google turned up nothing on that phrase.

Live Free Or Die
June 23, 2006, 10:01 AM
The cnn.com article this morning refers to the teachings of the Seas of David as a "blend of Islam and Christianity."

cuchulainn
June 23, 2006, 10:22 AM
hillbilly: It will be jihadists, homegrown, without "official" connections to Al Qaeda.Yes, its pretty well accepted that "Al Qaeda" has become more of a ladder conspiracy (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1095996) rather than a top-down organization.

mordechaianiliewicz: Just because the Muslim population has decided on violence ahead of time doesn't mean that Hispanics, Blacks, and Whites won't in the future.Maybe so. Then again there've been predictions of race/ethnic wars in the USA for 50-ish years -- it's possible for a pot to simmer and never boil over.

By the way, you're comparing apples and oranges. Muslims aren't a race (nor are Hispanics, for that matter). And Muslim isn't a valid synonym for Arab. Indeed, one of the largest and most-powerful Muslim nations -- Iran -- is populated by two Caucasian ethic groups, the Persians and the Kurds ... and those two groups of Whites represent a sizable portion of the U.S. Muslim population.

It's a dangerous, maybe deadly, mistake to look at this in terms of race.

beerslurpy
June 23, 2006, 10:27 AM
And that didn't seem suspicious?

Given that the FBI "swarmed" them, I am pretty confident it seemed suspcious from day one. If a bunch of muslims started doing military boot camp across the street from me and posting guards around the perimeter, I would at least inquire with the popo. If someone named Tashawna (or whatever) can spot a zoning violation, it is probably serious enough to set off alarms at the Fedi Council.

hillbilly
June 23, 2006, 10:32 AM
Cucuhlain makes another good point that lots of folks need to keep in mind.

This is Islam. And a specific branch of Islam...the fundamentalist puritannical version that's right out of the 7th centure.

It is not a race. It is not a culture.

But that's what makes it so dangerous.

It's a heady mix of religion and politics that TRANSCENDS race and culture.

Johnny Walker Lindh does not look a lot like Osama does not look like some of the London Train Bombers does not look like the Filipinos in Abu Sayef does not look like Chechen Muslism does not look like the blond, blue-eyed Muslims from the Balkans and former Yugoslavia.

That's one of the things I think folks fail to understand.

hillbilly

Lone_Gunman
June 23, 2006, 10:34 AM
What exactly were they charged with?

Exercising in a warehouse?

StopTheGrays
June 23, 2006, 10:45 AM
That's why this is World War IV.

What was World War III?

Ohen Cepel
June 23, 2006, 10:51 AM
Not to be picky, I get the point. However, I don't recall ever seeing any blue-eyed, blonde Muslims in Bosnia (too much Turkish influence, which is why they were converted to Muslim in the first place). The Croates looked that way. However, they are not Muslim.

I figured it was only a matter of time till this happened in America.

orangelo
June 23, 2006, 10:55 AM
The Cold War

ConstitutionCowboy
June 23, 2006, 11:00 AM
They are among us. The left will use this fact as an excuse to disarm us under the guise that it will disarm them. They'll use this as an excuse to ban certain guns - then others - then others...

Personally, I'll not disarm regardless with what ever comes from Washington DC. If those in Washington DC and any of their minions would just as soon get shot by me instead of the terrorists, they can try to disarm me. Otherwise, I'm on their side as they are, by law, supposed to be on my side in this battle with terrorists and other subversives. This is not a drill. This is not fear mongering. This is not a threat. This is survival of We the People and our rights, freedoms, and personal sovereignty. This is fact.

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. If that doesn't convince you to take a stand and protect your inalienable rights and freedoms, nothing will. If that doesn't convince you to maintain your personal sovereignty, you are already someone else's subject. If you don't secure your rights and freedoms to maintain your personal sovereignty now, it'll be too late to come to me for help when they come for you. I will already be dead because I had to stand alone. B.E.Wood

crazed_ss
June 23, 2006, 11:09 AM
Just another aspect of the racial, ethnic, and religious fragmentation this country is going to experience

Ummm.. this country has been experiencing racial, ethnic, and religious fragmentation since its inception.

Biker
June 23, 2006, 11:14 AM
I belive that it will increase exponentially given the present mood of Americans.

Biker

Sgt Stevo
June 23, 2006, 11:18 AM
They were charged with waging was on the USA. They are Islamic wanna be's.

Its not a race. And has little to with fragmentation. It is like joining a gang. Nothing more, nothing less.

And the State dept took them down. There are a lot of clowns like this all over our country.
And it has happened a lot before. It will happen again.

Camp David
June 23, 2006, 11:25 AM
Seven arrested in Sears Tower jihad attack plot...more arrests to come

I am glad that the President's policies in Homeland Security are achieving demonstratable results in our War on Terror... terrorists in Iraq (most recently Zarqawi) and now terrorists in America (this cell in Miami) are coming under our radar as we use the data and intelligence from the Patriot Act to defend our nation. No doubt this group of seven took their marching orders from Ayman al-Zawahiri!

Thank God they were intercepted.

Mr. James
June 23, 2006, 11:32 AM
Huh. NPR seemed a bit vague about who the alleged terrorists were, this morning; They even suggested they might be a "right wing militia"!

Just like the men arrested in Canada "represent[ed] the broad strata of society." Uh. . . yeah. :barf: :barf:

Most of our .gov and media elite simply refuse to identify the enemy.

Tecumseh, the Washington comPost's radio station in DC also emphasized the location of the FBI's field office in Miami. I have no idea what significance that could possibly have.

cuchulainn
June 23, 2006, 11:47 AM
also emphasized the location of the FBI's field office in Miami. I have no idea what significance that could possibly have.Near highway = easily accessible, perhaps allowing a truck-bomb to not even leave the highway. Near lots of residences = lots of collateral damage (lots of dead kids on the news).

dfaugh
June 23, 2006, 11:47 AM
It's a dangerous, maybe deadly, mistake to look at this in terms of race.

Very much so. While many people try to turn these things into race related rantings, that's simply a specious argument. Yes, sometimes unrest and violence SEEM to (and may) follow racial lines, to say that they ALL do is an invalid assumption.

Having said that, there ARE race related issues in this country, and with these other problems stacked on top, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Can't we all just get along?:D

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 01:09 PM
These were not terrorists... They were criminals. In fact, they were not even criminals. They wanted Al Qeda to give them guns, bombs, clothes, money and other material. COME ON, were exactly do you draw the line between crime and terrorism... There are lots of people in this country that would kill someone for money and raise hell for money, I do not think that it makes a difference who is paying them to do it.

This is a joke.

The family is saying that the alleged perps were not even muslims... Something isn't right here. I mean it. This is the same kind of crap that is going to land us all in jail because we disagree with "the man".

Also, immigration. Nough said there.

Camp David
June 23, 2006, 01:27 PM
These were not terrorists... They were criminals. In fact, they were not even criminals. They wanted Al Qeda to give them guns, bombs, clothes, money and other material. COME ON, were exactly do you draw the line between crime and terrorism...

Where? Civilian's lives. That's where! After 09/11/01 you want to be pals with a known terror outfit then accept the fact that folks might think you're a terrorist... 3,000 civilians dead on 09/11/01 gives us that right of assessment.

Not only are they terrorists, they seem to be very ignorant terrorists, if that makes a difference. And insofar as distinction beween "these were not terrorists... They were criminals" do tell us why they shouldn't be executed? Be clear and very specific...

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 01:54 PM
Hey Buddy, if you want to run around beating your chest about 9/11 go ahead. I don't disagree with you. However, I am not going to be part of a SALEM WITCH HUNT. I certainly would not execute someone who had not killed or ATTEMPTED to kill others. When I say Attempted I mean assault that unintendidly resulted in the victim living. There are some other things I would execute someone for, but these guys, no. Something isn't right here.

Civilian lives you say, well my buddy was stabbed to death Jan of 06 by some illegal immigrants while coming out of a business meeting. Another acquaintance was shot to death because some people didn't think he was getting out his wallet fast enough. Those were not terrorists according to the government, but they were civilians.

There is a holocaust going on in this country that people barely take notice of, but terrorism... God please not terrorism. And for the record, I am not talking about abortion. I am talking about the crime that we tolerate.

A police officer, working at an apartment off duty was shot to death a few months ago. He was in his office, heard a knock, answered the door and BLAM. Why didn't WE THE PEOPLE go down there and burn the rats out? Why aren't we drawing the line here and saying that this is our home and we will fight to keep it safe and good?????

But terrorism... A golf course here in Houston got money from Homeland Security for some reason.... ***? All of this while Houston PD is dangerously understaffed. Get your priorities straight. Your wife / girlfriend could get a bullet between the eyes at the ATM tonight. I doubt it will have been terrorists.

Edited to put in original text...

If you and I get together and plan to over throw the government, THAT ISN'T ILLEGAL IN AND OF ITSELF. I am not defending these people. I am just pointing out that there is something not quite right here

Camp David
June 23, 2006, 02:01 PM
If you and I get together and plan to over throw the government, THAT ISN'T ILLEGAL IN AND OF ITSELF.
:rolleyes:
Actually it is mbt2001! Check out sedition and treason in your state law code. Most states impose hefty sentences and some still advocate the death penalty for just such a crime; i.e., plan to overthrow government!

ArmedBear
June 23, 2006, 02:06 PM
Actually it is mbt2001! Check out sedition and treason in your state law code. Most states impose hefty sentences and some still advocate the death penalty for just such a crime; i.e., plan to overthrow government!

There is, of course, a fine line between a few stoned moonbats reading a little too much DailyKos and ruminating on overthrowing the government over a stack of pizzas, and an actual, serious plot.

But actually, seriously plotting the overthrow of the government is most certainly a crime. I believe that a serious plot to bring harm to large numbers of people for any reason can be prosecuted; otherwise law enforcement would have to wait for a terrorist attack to occur. That would be a bad way to set things up.

Now, for it to hold up in court, there would probably have to be material evidence. But surely someone like Timothy McVeigh could have been prosecuted, even if he'd been apprehended before setting off the bomb. There's nothing illegal about owning fertilizer, or truck fuel, but if those things can be tied to a larger plot to blow up a building full of people, there can most surely be a prosecution.

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 02:08 PM
errr... I actually edited that part out of my post, but yes I did say it.

It is hard to reply to this. I don't like terrorism. I don't. I don't like crime.

There is something not right IN THIS CASE, I guess that is my point.

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 02:15 PM
Then again there've been predictions of race/ethnic wars in the USA for 50-ish years -- it's possible for a pot to simmer and never boil over.]

That's right, and it's taken fifty years for the Left to insinutate itself sufficiently into the marrow of this culture to develop critical mass. They will use whatever they can to break down the heart, mind, and will of America. We are being fragmented not just in wannabe terrorist cells in Miami but in our universities, in our media, in our entertainments, in our legal establishment.

You can't preserve a Republic when, increasingly, most people seem to lack all clarity about what America is, why it exists, and what its value is. I see "anti-Americanism" in so many of the people I know, and these are not uneducated or desperate people, just people who have lost the way, so to speak.

I think the real danger is for us to look for simplistic answers to the fragmentation, strains of fascism to combat our loss of inner social and personal compass. People are searching for moral strength and not finding it, most of the time, in themselves or their neighbors they will look Out There for it.

ArmedBear
June 23, 2006, 02:16 PM
There is something not right IN THIS CASE.

I'll take a "wait and see" attitude.

The catch-22 here is that terrorism (and similar acts -- terrorism has a tactical objective, but there are also just plain crazy mass murder plots, like the Sarin cult in Tokyo some years ago, that don't strictly conform to the definition of terrorism) often is "not right".

Robbery makes sense to most of us. Murdering a cheating spouse makes sense to most of us. That doesn't mean that we'd even THINK of doing these things; we just understand that some people do, and why. Terrorism and similar acts often simply do not make sense to most of us, and those who commit these acts are by definition, "not right."

So, we'll see. That's what due process is for.

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 02:19 PM
Well, I guess I also remeber David Koresh and "Militia's" being compared with terrorists...

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 02:22 PM
What doesn't make sense about irrational hatred against "them?" That attitude is as old as humankind.

A society as open and permissive as ours that stops respecting Reason, Honor, and Self-Discipline is in the process of civil self-destruction.

We are developing a large lawless subculture in America, and that, unfortunately, extends beyond the obvious criminal class, into cheating students, lawyers and businesspeople who will bend the truth for a buck, and, alas, a government that no longer thinks it has to listen to its people.

"Miami" is just a symptom of the breakdown. We'd damn well better do some hard soul-searching. The whole world is watching. And, worse, WAITING.

ArmedBear
June 23, 2006, 02:25 PM
Well, I guess I also remeber David Koresh and "Militia's" being compared with terrorists...

Koresh was a cult leader, but not a terrorist, AFAIK. He didn't commit acts of terror. I don't know what he would have done, but I think he was relatively satisfied with a fresh supply of 16-year-old virgins and classic muscle cars, as any American self-proclaimed messiah ought to be.:p

Militias would depend. Some "militia" groups were just people who believed in self-defense and community self-defense, and were willing to train a bit. Some were probably just good ol' boys with another hobby. Some, however, may have had ties with, say, the Klan. The KKK is indeed a terrorist group, since its tactics generally actually involve terrorizing people.

I fully agree that there can be a real problem when anyone who does something with his/her spare time, besides go to the mall and watch cable like a good consumer, is labeled a "terrorist". And there is some danger of that.

Reason does require, though, that we take that on a case by case basis.

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 02:31 PM
Koresh was a cult leader, but not a terrorist, AFAIK. He didn't commit acts of terror. I don't know what he would have done, but I think he was relatively satisfied with a fresh supply of 16-year-old virgins and classic muscle cars, as any American self-proclaimed messiah ought to be.

Was Koresh not allegedly holding people against their will, abusing children? I say allegedly, I don't know.

You've hit on the problem, though. CULTS and LEADERS. Both are inimical to the individual, to law, to reason, and they are intimately entwined with oppression and tribalism.

1 old 0311
June 23, 2006, 02:34 PM
These clowns were wantabees. They lived in a abandoned warehouse, sold ethnic hair care products on exit ramps, and at night put on Ninja outfits and did exercises in the street. These are the type of clowns who steal radios from cars. Not the brightest bulbs on the tree.

Kevin

mbt2001
June 23, 2006, 02:35 PM
:scrutiny:

longeyes
June 23, 2006, 02:42 PM
These clowns were wantabees. They lived in a abandoned warehouse, sold ethnic hair care products on exit ramps, and at night put on Ninja outfits and did exercises in the street. These are the type of clowns who steal radios from cars. Not the brightest bulbs on the tree.

Which means they can be used, right?

Arm the clowns with serious weaponry and see what havoc is wrought.

How are they different from some warlord in Mogadishu?

robertbank
June 23, 2006, 02:45 PM
There is an American Congressman from New York who, after the arrests of the bunch up here, claimed Canada was some kind of a hot bed for terrorism. Well I have to wonder what he has to say now.

The FBI is concerned, as it should be, about the "home grown" type terrorists. Whether the Miami bunch were for real or just wannabees is a matter of conjecture. The fact that we we (Canada/US) have wing nuts running around trying to blow up buildings and such cannot come as a surprise to anyone.

We (Canada/US) have RCMP/CSIS, FBI/CIA who are charged with the task of keeping this sort of thing under control. Will be interesting to learn if the recent arrests up here are connected to those down south. Seems to be to close together to be co-incidental but who knows. One has to have faith that those in charge of anti-terorism know what they are doing and foiled plots are much more heartening than finding out "who done it" incidents.

Take Care

Lone_Gunman
June 23, 2006, 03:08 PM
I still am uncertain what they were arrested for.

Does anyone know what, if any, crime they have actually been charged with?

HankB
June 23, 2006, 03:25 PM
During lunch today I saw pictures of some of the Miami bunch on TV . . . in fact, all seven of their pictures are posted at cnn.com right now. The old "Timothy McVeigh was a European-looking Christian white guy with a crew cut!!!" argument against racial/ethnic/religious profiling looks pretty weak right now.

("Profiling" certainly shouldn't be the only means of searching out terrorists . . . and we sure can't lock people up just because they look suspicious . . . but there are some people who ought to be looked at more closely. "Profiling" isn't perfect by any means, but if "perfection" were the only standard when searching for a solution to a problem, we wouldn't have anything from antibiotics to fire departments.)

cavman
June 23, 2006, 03:32 PM
Lone gunman. Here are the charges levied against the Miami people. Trying to levy war against the US and doing it through whom they thought were Al Quaeda.

cavman





http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2240240_2,00.html




Seven men arrested during an FBI raid have been charged with conspiring with al-Qaeda to "levy war against the United States" by planning to blow up the tallest building in America, Chicago’s Sears Tower.

The men are also alleged to have been planning to blow up government buildings across five American cities, in a so called "full ground war" which they planned would "be just as good or greater than 9/11."

The suspects were taken into custody yesterday after a police and security operation at a Miami warehouse. Five are US citizens, one is a legal permanent resident, and one a Haitian national in the country illegally. All are believed to be Muslim and they are aged between 22 - 32.

The indictment names Narseal Batiste as the ringleader of the group that was planning the mission. He is alleged to have asked an undercover agent he thought was from al-Qaeda to help build an "Islamic Army to wage Jihad" in November 2005.

It is alleged that he told the agent he and his five "soldiers" wanted al-Qaeda training with the aim, to "kill all the devils we can".

The following month, it is alleged, Batiste met with a person purporting to be from al-Qaeda, and asked for boots, uniforms, guns, radios and vehicles for the plan.

His co-defendants were identified as Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Lyglenson Lemorin and Rotschild Augustine.

They are due to appear in the US District Court in Miami today.

The men are alleged to have met on March 16 to discuss the bomb plot, according to the indictment. Each swore an oath of allegiance and provided the supposed al-Qaeda representative with photographs of the FBI building in North Miami and details of their plans.

On May 24, Batiste told the representative he was experiencing delays "because of various problems within his organisation" but wanted to continue with the mission.

However, they were never able to obtain the explosives or access needed to complete their plan.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said the men were part of a group of "homegrown terrorists who sought to work with al-Qaeda but end up consorting instead with an informant".

"They were persons who for whatever reason came to view their home country as the enemy," he said.

"The convergence of globalisation and technology has created a new brand of terrorism.

"Terrorist threats come from smaller more loosely defined cells not affiliated with al-Qaeda but who are inspired by a violent jihadist message, and left unchecked these homegrown terrorists may prove to be as dangerous as groups like al-Qaeda."

John S. Pistole, the FBI Deputy Director, today praised the Joint Terrorism taskforce for intercepting the threat.

"Today’s announcement marks yet another important victory in the war on terrorism," he said. "It is also, however, a grim reminder of the persistent threat environment that exists here at home and underscores the need for continued vigilance and cooperation."

The focus of the operation in which the men were arrested was a warehouse in Liberty City, a tough, poor district of Miami, where neighbours said the men had been members of a military-style religious organisation.

Dozens of heavily armed FBI agents surrounded the warehouse, removing the door with a blowtorch, and searched the premises. There were no reports of any explosives or weapons being found.

Officials in Miami were quick to reassure residents that there was no imminent threat against the city.

Tashawn Rose, 29, told the AP news agency that the men, in their late teens and twenties, had moved to the warehouse about a year ago and appeared to sleep there, sometimes emerging in the night for training.

"They would come out late at night and exercise. It seemed like a military boot camp that they were working on there. They would come out and stand guard," she said. Ms Rose recalled a conversation with one of the men a month ago: "They seemed brainwashed. They said they had given their lives to Allah."

Last night, a man claiming to a part of the group appeared on US television to deny that his fellow members were terrorists. Calling himself "Brother Corey", the man told CNN: "We are not terrorists. We are members of David, Seas of David."

Although he said that the group had "soldiers" in Chicago, "Brother Corey" went on: "We are not terrorists... We study and believe in the word of god. This is a place where we worship... We study Allah and the worship of the regular Bible.

If convicted, the men face a maximum penalty of 15 years each in prison on the charges to provide material support or resources, and a maximum of 20 years in prison each on the charges to destroy by use of explosives and levy war against the United States.

rhubarb
June 23, 2006, 09:18 PM
I am glad that the President's policies in Homeland Security are achieving demonstratable results in our War on Terror... terrorists in Iraq (most recently Zarqawi) and now terrorists in America (this cell in Miami) are coming under our radar as we use the data and intelligence from the Patriot Act to defend our nation. No doubt this group of seven took their marching orders from Ayman al-Zawahiri!

Thank God they were intercepted.

I must say that THR has some of the best satire since Voltaire.





I've now read a dozen or so articles and I don't see any reference to how the FBI found out about these dopes. I think the answer to that question would be telling as to the effectiveness of Bush's disregard for American Rights and Liberties in his so-called war on terror. If the neighbors told on them (one article quotes an official as saying that they were recruiting in mosques) then their arrest could not be attributable to the P. Act.

In almost every article the authorities are quoted as saying that the accused have no ties to Al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. Almost every article states that there was no credible threat to the safety of any American, Americans in general, or to the United States of America itself. If these were motivated terrorists, they would not have waited for someone else to give them weapons of terror or show how to use them - these are daydreamers.

The FBI has been on these goons since November of last year. That's eight months. They didn't have anything then tying these men to terrorists. They still don't. I don't doubt at all that there are sure-nuff terrorists in the USA plotting against us, but if this is the best Bush and his war on terror can do, I'd rather have my privacy back, thankyouverymuch.

Silver Bullet
June 23, 2006, 10:12 PM
Huh. NPR seemed a bit vague about who the alleged terrorists were, this morning; They even suggested they might be a "right wing militia"!
Ha! I'll bet the perps vote Democrat.

robertbank
June 24, 2006, 08:19 AM
"There's nothing illegal about owning fertilizer, or truck fuel, but if those things can be tied to a larger plot to blow up a building full of people, there can most surely be a prosecution"

The bunch they arrested in Toronto had been under surveilance for two years. They ordered 4 tons of fertilizer - RCMP delivered the weight but not product - which is kind of over the top for folks living in Toronto!

You are right on when you say you can be arrested for "intent". Our "Anti-terrorism" laws provide for just that which is an exception to the normal practice of prosecuting the criminals after the event which happens in most cases.

The bunch up here are looking at 25 years. I would prefer if they just put them on an airplane and had them change planes at about 20,000 feet.

Take Care

spartacus2002
June 24, 2006, 09:37 AM
Longeyes nailed it.

And, before it is all over, I wouldn't be surprised to see that informants and/or undercover agents "puffed" the alleged perps statements -- making this a BS story.

Mongo the Mutterer
June 24, 2006, 10:57 AM
In almost every article the authorities are quoted as saying that the accused have no ties to Al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. Almost every article ... Okay Rube, don't doubt your word, but how about some links to these articles...

ConstitutionCowboy
June 24, 2006, 11:39 AM
But I must thank Rhubarb for pointing this out:

Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, 560 (1878):

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege."

The Court should have taken note of this when it decided US v. Miller (1939). Now, more than ever, a Wilson v. State attitude should once again prevail in this land.

Woody

"It is up to We the People to decide if and when we shall revolt. It is not up to those in government to prevent it. It is up to those in government to see that revolution never becomes necessary." B.E.Wood

Leatherneck
June 24, 2006, 11:46 AM
Something about this doesn't feel right to me.

While I agree with Camp David:
I am glad that the President's policies in Homeland Security are achieving demonstratable results in our War on Terror... terrorists in Iraq (most recently Zarqawi) and now terrorists in America (this cell in Miami) are coming under our radar as we use the data and intelligence from the Patriot Act to defend our nation. No doubt this group of seven took their marching orders from Ayman al-Zawahiri!

Thank God they were intercepted.

I'm a little bothered by the precedent being set here. One spokesman said "They were more intentional than operational." I suppose conspiracy in itself warrants arrest and trial, but I keep thinking of folks like us when Hillary becomes President.:what:

TC

rhubarb
June 24, 2006, 01:21 PM
Almost every article ...

Okay Rube, don't doubt your word, but how about some links to these articles...

A search of Google News for "Miami terrorists" (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=miami+terrorists) turns up some 2,000 articles.

Here are a few I cherry picked:
US Terrorist Plot Foiled (http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1670931.htm)
The FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) says the group was plotting to blow up America's tallest building, but they were never "an immediate threat".

FBI: Suspects Sought Help From al-Qaida (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5908520,00.html)
The group of men, who were arrested Thursday when authorities busted their alleged hide-out in a Miami warehouse, had no explosives and lacked adequate funding. Their only link to al-Qaida was through an FBI informant fronting as a member of the terrorist group, authorities said Friday.


No Immediate Threat (http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2006/06/24/news/top_news/eb0cfcecbc104dfb86257196007e39aa.txt)
"There is no immediate threat whatsoever to the Sears Tower," Blagojevich said.

Authorities said the Tower was never in imminent danger because the group of would-be attackers did not have the materials to carry out their plan.

Now that's fine and all, but what about the fact that in almost every article Gonzalez or Pistole are quoted as stating that the Miami 7 are in fact a terrible threat? Pretty much debunks my claim, right? Not really. When you look at the facts, you see what a farce this is. The "terrorists" accepted boots from an "Al Qaeda" operative. The "Al Qaeda" operative took them to the store to buy a memory chip for their camera to go take pictures of a Miami federal building. If you read the facts of the case as put forth by the FBI, you will see that there is no credible evidence of a real danger. You will see that there are no ties to any real terrorists. The only one in the case that has openly claimed to be a terrorist is a government operative. When you contrast what the government is saying about the danger with what the "terror cell" actually did, you see that the terrorists were led by the United States government. What a case.

I suspect that this whole case is an invention by our government to justify to the American people the government's increasing encroachment into our lives. Bush is tired of getting ripped over the P. Act, illegal wiretapping, and stories like the one that just came out about the CIA monitoring banking worldwide. Then you have the British and Canadians busting up terror cells right and left. Makes us look bad. How come they have terrorists and we don't? He has to show something for his efforts to improve security against terrorists.




P.S.
Here's a link for you "culture warriors." (http://www.newshounds.us/2006/06/24/reinforcing_the_conservative_archetype_of_the_culture_war.php)

Mongo the Mutterer
June 24, 2006, 01:32 PM
Yep ABC and the .... Guardian. Just as I thought.

Marshall
June 24, 2006, 02:11 PM
*Planning to blow up the Sear Tower.

*Planning to blow up a Federal building.

*Planning a "full ground war" which they planned would "be just as good or greater than 9/11."

*Building an "Islamic Army to wage Jihad"

*Seeking out al-Qaeda training with the aim, to "kill all the devils we can".

*Asked for boots, uniforms, guns, radios and vehicles for the plan.

*Each swore an oath of allegiance and provided the supposed al-Qaeda representative with photographs of the FBI building in North Miami and details of their plans.

Say what you want, over think it all you want, criticize it all you want, call BS on it all you want and talk conspiracy all you want but I'm glad they're off the streets and and am proud of the job the FBI has done. If you think for a second that al-Qaeda wouldn't have loved to have found and used these guys, you need to re-think. Thank you FBI.

Mongo the Mutterer
June 24, 2006, 02:29 PM
Yep Marshall, love your seven bullet points.

Thanks to the FBI.

By the way Rube, the reason I thumb my nose at the Guardian, is that you cannot find a more left wing publication in this country. Oh yeah... They are in England. I guess you have to get a foriegn perspective our AMERICAN problems. They are soooo enlightened. :barf: :barf: :barf:

Biker
June 24, 2006, 05:38 PM
I suspect that a real AQ operative would have ran from those bozos as fast as he could.

Totally incompetent.

Biker

carebear
June 24, 2006, 08:29 PM
If they are more "intentional" (making plans/talking about committing terroristic acts) than "operational" (having the training/equipment/ability to actually commit terroristic acts), then the AG's office could make a solid (by their standards :rolleyes: ) case that I (and half this forum) am in fact more "operational" than "intentional".

I don't mind busting up a group of wannabe losers with mayhem on their minds, heck boys, get on with rounding up the next bunch of keystone kommandos post haste; but don't blow them up into the frikkin' Red Brigade when they clearly aren't.

It's just this kind of obvious misstatement of reality for political gain and "look how good we are" grandstanding that blows AG-level law enforcement's (from local to especially federal) credibility out of the water.

You busted some alleged criminals, if you have a real charge, book em and move on. Just quit giving yourselves pats on the back.

p35
June 24, 2006, 09:13 PM
I keep thinking about all the "Constitutional Patriots" and other antigovernment wingnuts out there plotting to replace the US Government. What did these mopes do that was that different? If this is a major victory in the "War on Terror", we might as well shut it down.

It also reminds me that the whole Ruby Ridge disaster started with a Fed informant setting up Randy Weaver to sell an illegal shotgun. They wanted to put him in a bind to make him infiltrate the Nazis who infested North Idaho at the time. He sold the informant a legal shotgun, and the guy said he wanted it with a shorter barrel. Weaver grabbed a hacksaw and cut it off. Dumb move on his part, but not really his idea. Things snowballed from there until a bunch of people died.

Likewise, everything illegal these guys did seems to have been at the suggestion of the informant. Frankly, it sounds to me like a game of "how far can we get these guys to go?" If all they were doing before the Feds got involved was sitting around talking about how much they hated the government, the Feds should have left them alone. I can't believe they can't find enough real work to do in Miami.

XLMiguel
June 24, 2006, 09:27 PM
These putzes have been labeled 'more aspirational than operational', sounds about right. It seems they got busted because they bragged about their plans in the 'hood and got turned in.

It remains to be seen how much the .gov egged them on. I wonder why, if they wanted to be covert, they would want uniforms? I'm sorta waiting for the race card to be dropped. I agree that real al qaeda would avoid jerks like this big time.

OTOH, while they may, indeed, be a bunch of wanker wannabes, as many have noted, such clods only have to get lucky once to cause great harm, and even a blind pig finds an acorn from time to time, if they were sincere in their desires to blow stuff up, they do need to be dealt with. Harshly.

bogie
June 24, 2006, 10:39 PM
Excessive tacticality.

They shouldn't have asked for boots and uniforms.

They shoulda asked for rope.

carebear
June 24, 2006, 11:04 PM
If they'd asked for special ninja wall-climbing boots, they wouldn't need rope. :D

silverlance
June 24, 2006, 11:06 PM
i don't like this case.

i don't like how 5 wackjobs who were living in essentially an abandoned warehouse lit by candles and practicing their own religon have become demonized as "militants", "terrorists", and "conspirators".

i'm willing to bet every last sock i own that if i took a day off and spent about a hundred bucks, I would have by the sundown my own little group of "jihadis" made up of dimwits, numskulls, and crackpots gleaned off of skid row, too.

sir arthur conan doyle once wrote as sherlock holmes: "Follow the path of greatest benefit, my Dear Watson. Who would benefit the most from this heinous crime?"

evan price
June 26, 2006, 03:26 AM
Lone Gunman..:Question: "What were they charged with?" Answer: Straight to Gitmo, what are these "charges" of which you speak?

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