Blank Firing Guns?


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Nightcrawler
June 24, 2006, 10:48 PM
Question. I've got a buddy who's a film student, and he makes all kinds of short films. He asked me where you can get realistic looking and handling blank firing guns for use as movie props. Anybody got a source?

Obviously, one could use real guns with blanks, but this is problematic in several ways.

-Blanks aren't readily available in a lot of calibers. I've never seen .45ACP blanks for sale, for instance.

-In self-loading arms, getting the blanks to cycle the weapon can be a pain. (Though I've got a blank firing adapter for my FAL. I've read there are some .308 blanks which aren't supposed to be used with a BFA?)

-The obvious safety concerns.

He already knows the whole deal about how even blank firing guns are dangerous at close range, and how they must be handled properly. That said, anybody know where to get them? I mean, air soft guns make great props until you have to fire them on camera.

Thanks.

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Cromlech
June 24, 2006, 11:21 PM
Here in the U.K, blankfirers are designed to vent off the gases upwards (Or out the cylinder in a revolver), so they are perfectly safe so long as you don't put your hand over the top!

The other option is a PFC (Plug Fire Cap) replica.

http://www.9mmblankgun.com/

http://www.iar-arms.com/militaryblanks.htm

pdowg881
June 25, 2006, 06:51 PM
You can't just pull the bullet out of the case and use a paper wad or something to keep the powder in? Is that a dumb question?

MikeJackmin
June 25, 2006, 07:01 PM
You probably want 8mm blank firing guns. This link will get you started:

http://www.8mmblankgun.com/

You might want to read up on Brendon Lee, in case anybody wants to get careless... :(

atlctyslkr
June 25, 2006, 08:09 PM
Winchester Makes Blanks for 38 Special, 32 S&W, and 22 Short

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgundetail.aspx?symbol=38SBLP&type=18
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgundetail.aspx?symbol=32BL2P&type=17
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rimfiredetail.aspx?symbol=X22SB


Here's a site that sells starter pistols
http://www.wolverinesports.com/pistols.html

Probably could get a FFL in your area to order one for you.

Trebor
June 25, 2006, 10:00 PM
Unless he has a trained armorer on thet set, I reccomend he NOT use blanks. Just knowing that they are dangerous isn't enough. Someone on the set needs to know the dangers, understand how to use the firearm props safely and be responsible for every prop and round of ammo.

I reccomend instead that he use realistic looking airsoft guns. Remove the batteries or otherwise disable their function and run them unloaded. Muzzle flash can be added with digital editing and sound effects can be added later as well. There's really no need to use blank firing firearms at all.

Nightcrawler
June 25, 2006, 11:34 PM
Just knowing that they are dangerous isn't enough. Someone on the set needs to know the dangers, understand how to use the firearm props safely and be responsible for every prop and round of ammo.

You'd probably cringe if you knew how much time we spent running around the woods spraying blanks at each other in the Army.

Once, we did find a live round in the pile. :eek:

The nice thing about 8mm blank guns is that they can neither chamber nor fire actual cartridges, so with a little safe handling (I was asked to help supervise if I can) I don't think there'll be a problem.

Digital editing of muzzle flash and such doesn't work well on small budgets. We're talking student film here.

Thanks for the input, guys!

rangerruck
June 26, 2006, 12:04 AM
gunshows sell them , along withthe blanks, also if you look in the ads inside of gun mags, you will see an ad or two in ther for "movie guns"

Zero_DgZ
June 26, 2006, 11:16 AM
Probably the best balance between safety and realism is to use gas airsoft pistols with no ammo in 'em. If you hold down the slide catch on an airsoft gun when it's empty it'll still go "pop" and cycle the slide when you pull the trigger, but the slide won't lock and obviously nothing will be fired (or you can disable it - The KSC Glocks, for instance, have followers you can lock down so you can shoot the gun empty all day long). You can add in the muzzle flash and a suitable sound effect later. And if you have a skilled user he can let go of the magazine catch at the right time and be "out of ammo" if the scene calls for it, with the slide locking back.

I've been around 8mm blank firing guns and I can tell you two things: First, I wouldn't want one of those things pointed at me no matter what. Second, running around with clunky ear protection on camera probably looks a little silly! Those things are loud.

Boom-stick
June 26, 2006, 11:46 AM
Airsoft with silencers should be pretty realistic, the downside of 8mm's etc is the "muzzle" will be seen on film venting through the top of the slide:)

I know the armourers on 'Enemy at the Gate' used live guns with blank ammo and every morning called over the entire crew and cast to demostrate the shooting of a water melon at close range with a blank cartridge. Everyone got to see the water melon have a hole blown though it every morning just to get the point across about gun safety and how dangerous 'blanks' are.

PaladinX13
June 26, 2006, 12:05 PM
Yeah, forget about 8mm blank firing guns. Hearing damage and not sufficiently realistic... you might be able to get a non-orange blaze muzzle in the States, but it's unlikely and possibly illegal (depending on your local laws). Caught on film, you'll get sound, weight, flinch, and casing... but you'll also get an obviously wrong ejection flash and obvious blank casings if close-up/slow-motion.

Cromlech
June 26, 2006, 12:23 PM
Full size Blank rounds (5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO et cetera) in a real firearm can be dangerous yes. I used them all the time in the ACF, in the L98A1 and also in the L86A1 (With a BFA) when I was a training 3*cadet and above.

Top venting replica blank firers are only going to hurt you if you are dumb enough to put your hand over the vent or hold the gun right by your eye so the slide can hit you. In that case you deserve it.

Plug Fire Cap (PFC) guns are quite safe, although there is a little bit of muzzle flash. They aren't as loud as blank firers though.

Justin
June 26, 2006, 01:09 PM
Digital editing of muzzle flash and such doesn't work well on small budgets. We're talking student film here.


He doesn't have a bootleg copy of After Effects?

And he calls himself a film student. :p

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