[MIL-DOT]

i asked earlier for help with the best deal on .223 ammo,and received lots of good advice,especially the link to AR-15.com.(VERY infornmative) my thanks to all. but the volume of information,plus how contradictory and incomplete it can be,still leaves my head spinning. while researching,i'm writing down various rounds,then adding "checks" (meaning BAD,GOOD,GREAT,EXCELLENT),then scratching out checks,then adding them again, all based on someones impression of brass condition, primer softness,chrono'd velocity,how wateproof,polled percentage of folks that wouldn't use it again,etc.etc,blah,blah,blah,........:banghead:
i know this forum is FULL of people that have this info on the top of their head. i'm simply trying to find the ideal .223 ammo to put away,probably for years,for a 16",chrome-bored,colt car 15 i bought new in the early "80's. ideal ballistics is less of a concern than moisture-proof,LONG-TERM-STORAGE,and economy.(please don't point me towards any $350 a case ammo !!!:eek: )
i just need to know what ammo's meet my criteria,then i can spend a month or three hunting down the best deal on it.as always, any advice much appreciated.......m.r.

[nipprdog]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=207182

[steveracer]

Get NEW lake city M855 from whoever has it. Ammoman.com has this in stock usually, and it is about $300 per 1K. This is on strippers, in ammo cans, and lead sealed. I bought a few thousand to do the same thing you intend to do, and still have it cached. It will likely be the best ammo for long term storage. 62 grain penetrator ammo with green tip, in 30 round cardboards on ten round strippers. If you want to spend less, get much MORE ammo for less, and shoot it at will. I have about 10K of Wolf that I shoot whenever I feel the desire. I'll probably not run out of it for a long time. I would stick to quality brass stuff for shtf, though.

[rbernie]

If I have to shoot commercial ammo, I'm a M193 kinda guy. I see less need for penetrator ammo than I do for ammo that'll fragment in a human body at least 75% of the time at distances that I'll likely to find myself, and do so out of the rifle that I''ll likely be shooting.

I normally try to keep around 1000 rounds of XM193 or Q3131A around. Having said that, I generally also have a bunch (~500) of handloaded Hornady 75g OTM's stored up as well.

[Dionysusigma]

I will say this about SHTF scenarios. If you can possibly afford it, get what you normally use or better, not the cheapest (even if you are going for quantity).

My reasoning is this... recently, I used up my SHTF kit to see how "miserable" I would be in such a scenario. The MREs were... okay, but I found that a few of them were so bad (not old, just... inedible) that I made a list of which ones were good enough to buy later (individual meal packs); also, I had too many. Eventually, I yearned for canned cream corn and ready-made soup. The carton of cigarettes I bought, Senecas, are bottom-level quality, and every one I light is a regret. The ammo I stocked wasn't so bad, since it's what I usually run through my Mauser and my AK. It reminded me that I need better (and more) cleaning solvent for my guns. It showed me that my provisions for light (cyalume sticks, Zippo, and emergency stoves) were over-done. It showed me that if it was winter, I'd freeze to death in almost no time if I was anywhere away from my current domicile. The water was the only thing I had gauged spot-on for hydration, but didn't include washing, bathing, or backup.

Case in point, keep everything in proportion, and stock up on quality stuff that you won't regret having later. Ammo is no different... don't buy cases upon cases of cheap corrosive ammo that you won't be able to adequately clean out of your gun later in a SHTF scenario. Use it for practicing at the range in a normal everyday environment. You'll know exactly what your gun is capable of, what you're capable of, and you won't have as many surprises later.

I have since bought decent-quality Yugo ammo (still corrosive, but I get better results out of my M48), and detergent and a squeeze-bottle for neutralizing the corrosive salts. I haven't found new-production non-corrosive ammo that I can afford and that gives acceptable results, so this is what works for me.

[blackhawk2000]

Whats the twist rate on your rifle? That should be the first thing you figure out before buying anything. I hate to break this to you, but decent ammo for defensive use is going to cost you. 62 grain out of 20" barrels is good, but 16" might be pushing it for social work. 55's would be a better choice for a 16" barrel IMO. XM193 is good stuff, so is Winchester Q3131, and Q3131A. If you have a 1:9 twist you might be able to stabilize the 77 grain loads, and those are pretty good, but a lot more than the other stuff.

[MIL-DOT]

OK,good stuff,boys. i already had triple-checks by the M-855's,XM-193's and Q3131's. but good to know i was leaning in the right direction. keep it coming,keep it coming.....;)

and thanks blackhawk, i wasn't aware that with a shorter barrel i should go with a lighter projectile.

[greg700]

Bear in mind anything that is labeled XM instead of just an M means it is a second of some kind. I haven't had much luck recently finding any more M855, though I still have several basic loads worth, and even XM193 is getting harder to come by. If anybody knows where I can get true M855 (not de-linked or for 'training only') or some M193 let me know.

[MIL-DOT]

Senior Member


Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 281

Bear in mind anything that is labeled XM instead of just an M means it is a second of some kind.

no,i DIDN'T know that !!! thanks,greg;)

[blackhawk2000]

Well that's not always true. The 77 grain loads work great in 14.5" and up. The 62 works good in 20", but not 14.5. 16" I'm not sure about. 55 seems to work decent in 14.5 but not at long distances. 16" has a bit more range with 55's. Any distance I would shoot a person at when the S hits the F, would be within fragmentation range for 55's out of a 14.5" barrel though.

[MechAg94]

At the Pasadena gun show the weekend before last, one of the ammo sellers had 500 round boxes of Federal M193. I got one. Might have to buy more next time.

[DMK]

I stocked up mostly Federal XM-193 along with some Winchester Q3131A. I took the 20 round boxes and packed them in 50 cal. ammo cans along with two or three desicant packs. I keep them sealed until I'm ready to use them.

When I come across 55 gr. Winchester Whitebox 223 in Walmart, I buy a bunch of that for range use to keep from dipping into my stash so much.


62 grain out of 20" barrels is good, but 16" might be pushing it for social work. 55's would be a better choice for a 16" barrel IMO.Barrel length is inconsequential. It's rifle twist and bullet length that you need to consider (heavier bullets are usually longer and need a faster twist to stabilize them).

I have two 16" 1/9 twist RRA barrels(one's a chrome lined Govt profile) that will group 75gr. Hornady TAP and Black Hills OTM right at around an inch at 100 yards. That's better than they do with M193 or cheap walmart 55gr. and is definately more than accurate enough for social work.

[MIL-DOT]

thanks DMK, but my early 80's colt 16" is ( i believe) not 1/9 twist, but 1/12 twist. as i understand, that's better suited to a lighter 55gr. round.right?? (i'm asking:confused: )

[DMK]

If it is a 1/12 twist, then you are right, definately 55gr for you. M-193 was made specifically for that twist.

Are you sure it's 1/12 though? Colt made a lot of variations. I'd put a mark lengthwise near the handle of a cleaning rod, put a patch holder on it and push a tight fitting patch through. Push the rod though for one revolution of the line and mark it. Then pull it back and mark it. The distance it went for one revolution is your twist rate. (ie. it should go one revolution in 12 inches for a 1/12 twist, one revolution in 7 inches for a 1/7 twist, etc)

That way you know for sure.

[blackhawk2000]

Longer barrels, gain more velocity. Velocity is the key to 5.56 being effective. Too low, and no fragmentation. More velocity=fragmentation at longer ranges. And again different weights out of different barrels will vary as far as frag ranges go.