[ahadams]

I know that 00 buck is considered to have an effective range of 20 to 30 meters (yards) but that's being concerned about all of the shot hitting a single target. I've read accounts of units in WW I using trench guns to repel human wave type assaults by the Germans. The implication seems to be that the use of massed trench guns with buckshot approximated that of multiple light machineguns. That being the case, and given that one wasn't worried about friendlies in the down range area, what's the real max range of buckshot - anybody have a clear idea on that?

[Dave McCracken]

Round balls, even bigger ones like 00, lose velocity fast. It may just welt exposed skin at 100 yards, more likely to break the skin,IMO.

Unless you plan on repelling human wave attacks, buck is good for whatever distance it patterns within 15" for you.

[Clemson]

The maximum range of 00 buck is about 600 yards, give or take a few, depending on initital velocity. The maximum effective range, as Dave notes, is a good bit less!

Clemson

[Jim Watson]

Don't try it at home, Dave.
On Sierra Infinity, taking OO buck as a .34" 59 grain lead ball at 1300 fps muzzle velocity, it will arrive at 100 yards at 820 fps with 88 ft lb of energy. Drop of 10 inches, assuming it patterned to center at 50 yards. A bit more power than a .25 ACP at the muzzle.
Of course the pattern will be a bit thin that far.

I shot my trap gun's Improved Modified barrel with OO buck at 45 yards, as far as I could get on that range. It would put about half the pellets on a B27 humanoid target. Four or five .34s scattered about the anatomy is going to have a bad effect on anybody's health.

[Dave McCracken]

I won't, Jim. Did some plinking on the state range back when. Used 00 on fiber cans at 100 yards and it merely dented same. 10 inches does sound about right tho.

820 sounds high. IIRC, a table in one of Zutz's tomes read that #4 steel was down to 300 something FPS at 60 yards.

[Hal]

.34 cal 59 gr weight
Pluggin those figures in here:
http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/calcbc/calcbc.htm#calculator
Nets these results:
BC of .047
SD of .0729

Plugging those figures in here under define your own, and using 1300 fps:
http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm

With a zero of 25 yards-
@ 100 yards the ball is doing 824 fps and has dropped 8 inches
Max range is 232 yards. @ that range, the ball is still doing 554 fps.

Max elevation yeilds approx 598 yards, with the ball still doing 187 fps.

Moving the red slider to return fps figures, under ideal conditions the ball could still be @ a lethal velocity ie: > ~ 400 fps @ 339 yards.

@ 200 yards the ball is still doing > 600 fps.

The SD (sectional density) figure is pretty much the key .072 is really low.
For comparison only,
a 40 gr .22 has a SD of .118
a 90 gr .380 has a SD of .102

Based on the above rough estimates, I'd guess max lethal range for 00 Buck to be
~ 150 yards if it stuck an unprotected vital area such as an eyeball or the soft spot in the throat area. Given that the ball would drop ~ 27 inches at that range, a lethal hit is more a matter of luck(bad or good depending on the circumstance) Again, based on the above, my rough guess for a max "take the shot" range would be 70 yards under ideal conditions,,,half or slightly more under less than ideal conditions.

YYMV according to a LOT of variables....and nope, I ain't about to stand out there and take one for the sake of proving a point. :D

[Al Thompson]

My first shooting coach was an MP in Vietnam. He held a 12 ga in high regard for perimeter defense. Details are fuzzy in my mind, but he mentioned that in Tet '68 they did some good work when the bad guys were in the wire.

OO will indeed penetrate deep enough to kill at 100y. I've seen it when a slob emptyed his A5 at a deer. :barf: Quit dog driving soon there after.

[Mannlicher]

ahadams
I dont think the Doughboys used their M97's to repel human wave attacks. My understanding is that they mostly used them when cleaning out German trenches.

[El Tejon]

Doesn't Ayoob write of a case where a female officer hit a thug at nearly 100 yards with a #00 pellet. Killed him, through the eye.

[pdt203]

I went to the range this morning in Skyline, AL and took all my guns with me.

One was my 12ga. shotgun with Wolf 00 buckshot. I shot at 25 yards and there was about a 24 inch spread, and then shot at 10 yards with something closer to 8-10 inches.

'Bout blew my arm off. I have shot game loads all my life, but this hurt. :what:

Johnny in Huntsville

[Andrew Wyatt]

if it hurts, you need to improve your form, get a cushier recoil pad, and/or use reduced recoil buck.

[Badger Arms]

It's really academic to talk about this... but I love these kind of posts. You've all ignored one simple fact: that 00 Buckshot almost NEVER leaves the barrel as a perfect sphere. Everybody has been running numbers for tungsten-steel ball-bearings ignoring the fact that the shot is likely to be deformed as it travels at supersonic speeds through a shotgun barrel. It's only lead after all. What's the Ballistic Coefficient of a flattened ball with a little bit of left english on it?

[ahadams]

to all of you: thanks for the research!

Mannlicher: I ran into an account of a unit with a high concentration of M97's who apparently got caught by the otherside going over the top before they got a chance to do so...that's where the report came from. I'll have to see if I can find it again...

[Bruce626]

I guess I'm surprised we haven't yet heard about the social pitfalls of shooting 00 buck beyond effective, "all pellets accounted for" range.

I don't explain this very well, but it goes something like this. If you know the effective range of the load is X yards in your gun, and that using it at that range will keep all of the pellets in or on the target, you risk negligence or worse if you shoot at a BG beyond that range and one or more of those stray pellets does someone else some harm.

I recall being told of a cop who killed a BG with 00 buck and had a single stray pellet kill his/her partner who was visually not in the line of fire.

At some point you just have to switch to slugs... for my SG (18.5 inch, cylinder bore) and reduced recoil 00 Buck load it is 22 yards or so aiming for COM.