Saturday 1858 Remington Target Shooting Results


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Wwalstrom
June 26, 2006, 02:41 PM
1858 Remington New Army, Stainless Steel, Fixed Sights

I shot from a bench (55-gallon drum), with a wadded up hand towel instead of a sandbag.

Group #1
28.0 Grains Goex FFFg
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
2-1/4 Inch group, 4 inches low and 1 inch to the right of POA

Group #2
28.0 Grains Goex FFFg
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
6-1/4 Inch group, 4 inches low of POA ... 2 flyers off the target:(
*Used the cylinder from my Blued 1858 Remington

Group #3
28.0 Grains Goex FFFg
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years old)
3 Inch group, 4 inches low and 1 inch to the right of POA

Group #4
28.0 Grains Goex FFFg
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Buffalo Ball-Et .451 Dia Conical (10 years+ old ... factory lube hard and crusty)
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
3-1/8 Inch group, 1 inch low and 1-1/2 inches to the right of POA
*Used the cylinder from my Blued 1858 Remington

Group #5
28.0 Grains Goex FFFg
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Buffalo Ball-Et .451 Dia Conical (10 years+ old ... factory lube hard and crusty)
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
4-3/4 Inch group, 2-1/2 inches low and 1 inch to the right of POA

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Manyirons
June 26, 2006, 02:59 PM
Thanks fer tha info! Now ifin ya only used swiss powder. :)

Wwalstrom
June 26, 2006, 05:49 PM
What is this "fabled" powder you speak of???
The choices in my area are (1) Pyrodex, (2) 777, (3) Pinnacle, (4) Goex
I plan on shooting another set of 5 targets this weekend, only using Pyrodex instead of the Goex 3Fg. I also forgot to mention that I didn't swab the bore between any cylinders (maybe I should have), all I did was once I sprayed some windex on the cylinder and pin, and wiped 'em off.

I think a dovetailed front sight needs to be ordered and installed on this puppy. Now I need a spare cylinder or three!!!

dwave
June 26, 2006, 06:10 PM
Cleaning the barrel will help. After a couple of cylinders my 1858's accuracy drops off and my groups get bigger.

Gatofeo
June 26, 2006, 10:39 PM
I stopped using dry Wonder Wads years ago. In my experience, they don't provide enough lubricant and fouling builds up quickly in the barrel, affecting accuracy.
Instead, I lubricate my wads with a homebrew lubricant --- found in a 1943 magazine --- composed of beeswax, mutton tallow and paraffin. You'll find the recipe and specifics in my post, "How to Properly Use A Cap and Ball Revolver."
I use one wad between the ball and powder in my .36 and .44 revolvers. After six shots, the bore is nearly free of fouling. Only a fine film of soot may be seen.
I've shown this to a number of other shooters and they've all been amazed that a cap and ball sixgun could shoot so clean.
If nothing else, soak your Wonder wads in olive oil or melted Crisco. The extra lubrication will make a difference.

Manyirons
June 26, 2006, 11:32 PM
Wwalstrom, SWISS burns cleaner an give better results an higher velocity usually. DONT like goex an with GATOFEO #1 Lube, ya gets a CLEAN shootin gun, an you'll be able ta gets it soon from BigIron Custom Barrels in stick&tubs.

Prelubed wads with GATOFEO #1 will be available, THA MANN has been experimentin with this, tha felt he gets with tha LUBE is CLEAN shootin even with cokers like goex, elephant and such.

Have ya tried pyrodex p and H777 yet?

Wwalstrom
June 27, 2006, 08:25 AM
The wads I used were, at one time, lubed ... but, along with the caps and Buffalo Ball-Ets are 10 plus years old. I noticed the wads were considerably dryer than I recalled, so I melted up some lube in a tuna can, and stirred in a bunch of wads. I've only got maybe 25-30 old caps, and 25-30 Ball-Ets left ... the rest of the stock is new this year.

I'm also still considering lopping an inch to an inch and a half off the barrel, and installing a dovetailed front sight on the stainless remmy.

Wwalstrom
June 27, 2006, 08:54 AM
I didn't trust my eye-hand coordination with my dremel tool and the purty stainless, sooo, I sweet talked a machinist at work to mod it with an end-mill. I only wish he used a larger diameter endmill/bit. I also do need to do a bit of blending here and there on it.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h242/Wwalstrom/1858RemNA-SST/060624-04a.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h242/Wwalstrom/1858RemNA-SST/060624-01a.jpg

Wwalstrom
June 27, 2006, 09:04 AM
I'm working on making a "pocket" cleaning kit. The lab just down the hall has a mini-mill and a mini-lathe. I scrounged a chunk of 1/4 inch diameter brass rod, and one of the techs is gonna cut it into 3 inch pieces, true the ends, and center drill 'em for a #8-32 tap. I've got a t-handle (similar to whats on hoppes cleaning rods), and .44-caliber jag/nylon, brass & tornado brushes. All of this should fit in a standard altoids tin. Yeah, I know, they have pocket cleaning kits available ... for $15.00 ... with this one, I'll be out ... $1.50 (soda-pop for the tech running the lathe). I could do it myself on the lathe, but the techs protect the lathe and mini-mill like their own children.

Manyirons
June 27, 2006, 09:18 AM
Ifin/when ya gets yer own mill or lathe you'll see what they means! Tube access millins one a tha common mods on tha guns here, and good job whoever did yours.

I has ta work inna seperate shop, tha BOSS dont even allow his WIFE inna shop he keeps! He DO allow his favorite dog though. Cause that machinery, toolin, hand tools NOBODY touches but him. Aint his kids, its his BEST kids and livin.

Duncaninfrance
June 27, 2006, 05:49 PM
That looks very neat and tidy will have to do mine like that one day so i can get my nipples on.
Duncan

AirForceShooter
June 27, 2006, 10:31 PM
Try .457 balls.

AFS

Wwalstrom
June 28, 2006, 05:43 PM
By the time of your post, the 2 boxes of .457's I purchased were 4 hours old!

RON in PA
June 28, 2006, 07:25 PM
You didn't state range, can we assume 25 yards? If you didn't clean between cylinders, not bad, minute of man accuracy. Actually many modern semi-autos will give 3"-4" groups at 25 yards.

Ferret
June 28, 2006, 11:59 PM
I give +1 on the .457 balls...
My 1860's and remmies prefer them... I have one remmie where a .451 ball will fly out of 2 chambers when another is fired.
When I went over to .457 the groups shrank..

plus...ManyIrons
tha BOSS dont even allow his WIFE inna shop he keeps! He DO allow his favorite dog though.
are you now relegated to bringing him the slippers? or are you a special case?:neener: :neener:

Wwalstrom
June 29, 2006, 09:15 AM
Doohh ... I thought something was missing! After I shot the targets and put water to boil for cleaning, I measured with my long tape ... and it was 46 feet (15.33 yards/14.0208 meters). I scanned my targets into a pdf for future reference and sharing, but photobucket don't like pdfs. :banghead:
I performed a couple of edits on my first post, and added it once, but something buggered up my first edit, and I had to redo it ... and the range never made it back in. Sorry about that.

Wwalstrom
July 2, 2006, 12:29 PM
Saturday 1858 Remington Target Shooting Results

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1858 Remington New Army, Stainless Steel, Fixed Sights

I shot from a bench (55-gallon drum), with a wadded up hand towel instead of a sandbag.

The Wonder Wads were soaked in Melted Bore Butter this time. There was no cleaning, other than wiping off the cylinder between targets.

Distance was a Measured 46 Feet.

Group #1
28.0 Grains Pyrodex "P"
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
3-5/8 Inch group, 3-1/2 inches low and 1 inch to the left of POA ... 1 flyer off the target

Group #2
28.0 Grains Pyrodex "P"
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years+ old)
4 Inch group, 4 inches low and 1 inch to the right of POA ... 1 flyer off the target

Group #3
28.0 Grains Pyrodex "P"
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (10 years old)
3-7/8 Inch group, 3-1/2 inches low and 1-1/2 inch to the right of POA

Group #4
28.0 Grains Pyrodex "P"
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (3 10 years+ old, & 3 New)
2-7/8 Inch group, 2 inches low and 1 inch to the right of POA

Group #5
28.0 Grains Pyrodex "P"
Ox-Yoke Wonder Wad
Speer .454 Dia Roundball
Remington #10 Cap (New)
2-7/8 Inch group, 2 inches low and 1-1/2 inch to the left of POA

Manyirons
July 2, 2006, 12:53 PM
Ferret!

No, but i DO gets ta clean up! An his WIFE does tha slipper fetchin, Tha MANN CONTROLS his home! (O.K. so i'm jealous!)

Manyirons
July 2, 2006, 12:54 PM
Good data Walstrom! Why 28 grains though?

Wwalstrom
July 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Cuz thats what my spout throws, and 28 grains worked very well in my previous revolvers. I also wanted to shoot the second set of targets with pyrodex, measured (by volume) the same as the first set (3Fg).

arcticap
July 6, 2006, 02:00 AM
When I have bullets with old crusty lube, I will apply a little bit of Goo Gone to a cleaning patch and rub the old lube off, and then wait until just before I actually shoot one before I relube it.
Sometimes I end up having to remove all of the old, hardened Bore Butter from old prelubed TC conicals or bullets that I prelubed in the past. What a chore! :D
In your opinion, which powder that you used is preferable, if any?

Wwalstrom
July 6, 2006, 08:22 AM
Whichever is the cheapest :D !!!

The real stuff is hard to find around here, and Pyrodex seems to be disappearing too. I considered trying Goex Pinnacle, until I saw the price tag ... $25 per pound ... Aaacckk!!

My revolvers don't seem to be too terribly picky about which powder they prefer.

My rifle, on the other hand ... lets just say that I would prefer to shoot real black powder in either barrel. I haven't had any problems with the .36 caliber barrel, but the .50 caliber barrel is a different story altogether. If I shoot Pyrodex in it, I can scrub the snot out of it, and then scrub the snot out of it again, and hit it a third time for good measure and lube it ... but the next day the bore will be covered with surface rust :fire: , and I'll have to clean it again.

arcticap
July 6, 2006, 02:45 PM
I use different solvents to dissolve Pyrodex residue and the rifle barrels usually come out shiny. The nipple threading and internal breech area is the toughest to get it all out of. Hoppes Black Powder Solvent has been working good and I picked up some Rusty Duck Black Off at a Walmart, but I haven't tried that yet.
I always use a lot of elbow grease, big homemade patches along with a .41 caliber cleaning jag with all rifles .45 caliber and over. I hit it in steps with any solvent I've got and they don't all work well. But I use small pieces of wood dowels and craft sticks, and wrap them with solvent moistened cloth and twist it into the threads, nooks and crannies over and over. Then apply a good coat of bore butter.
I see that you're located in Minnesota. I've got relatives in Bloomington and vicinity, and my Dad was born near Fargo, ND. I've been a big Twins fan for years, long before they moved their AA team to my hometown here. Boy was I thrilled when they did that, like a dream come true, excepting the '87 & '91 World Series of course! I even shook hands with Paul "Molly" Moliter a couple of years ago, and have a ball signed by Kirby Puckett from '87 in NYC. GO TWINS! :D

Almost all of their future stars come through AA New Britain first. Check them out:

http://www.rockcats.com/

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