How to Camoflague Safes?

[ramon]

Everyone agrees that the best tactic is not to let anyone know you have a safe. But, if you have two or three gun safes in your garage how do you keep their presence unknown in an economical way that also allows easy access? Suggestions and solutions gladly accepted. Thanks.

[BryanP]

Build a wood cabinet around it. It can be cheap plywood with a hinged door on the front. A padlock for the cabinet is optional. Make it look like the kind of thing you would stack cans of paint in and such.

Leave a few cheap power tools out in the garage, btw. That way a thief who busts in may just grab those and run.

[Snake Eyes]

Leave a few cheap power tools out in the garage, btw. That way a thief who busts in may just grab those and run.

Or a comptent thief, that has staked you out and knows how much time he has, will use your power tools to hack up your cheap plywood cabinet and to aid his entry to your safe.

[Ohen Cepel]

Get a fridge box that will fit over it. Pain for frequent access but nice when you're leaving town.

[greg531mi]

I just throw a old blanket over mine. Out of sight, out of mind!!!!

[pdowg881]

Put them in the corner, and sheetrock around them. Then leave a small door opening and put a shelf or something there. I bet it looks different in my head than how it sounds.

[Punkermonkey]

So I took a back room in my house and added one of these. (http://www.hiddendoors.com/) Talk about camouflage!!

[a1abdj]

Hiding safes is something relatively new, and done solely because the safe won't pass muster against a burlgar.

100 years ago, back before there were alarms and armed guards, everybody put their safe in the front window of their business where everybody could see it.

Most of the safes in those windows were acutally real safes that would keep somebody out. In the event somebody did decide to have a go at it, they were easily seen by people passing by on the street.

Many criminals are simply lazy, and you could probably hide your safe by placing something over it as others have stated. I wouldn't go as far as building secret rooms, as you could just invest that money into a better safe and not need to hide it.

[ramon]

Punker-That is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. Now I just have to findwhich room I can seal off and not have the rest of the family object-but I definitely need to get one of those.

Frank-I've really enjoyed your posts and expertise. However, on this one I have to respectively disagree. For example, you have one great post somewhere that shows two Amsecs and a lesser rsc between them. I love that set-up and would like to have one similar in my garage. However, if any number of tradesmen or tow truck operators or painters/roofers,etc saw those and talked about the "treasure" that must be kept in those safes-you could bet that some meth freak or other lowlife is going to come visit and rob you at gunpoint. A robbery is a more dangerous threat to you and your family that a burglary. If I remember correctly, that is exactly what happened to the Clutter family in Truman Capote's In Cold Blood, and that was before the hugh upswing in drug use and home invasions we have now. Consequensely, discretion or stealth is the best tactic I believe. How would you disguise those three rsc's and still keep them accessible in a garage? Your advice is valued.

[HiVelocity]

I guess I'm just a tad different. When I shopped for a gun safe I happened to find a "tool" safe at Lowes. They only sell them around Christmas. It only holds about 6 rifles and 4-5 shelves for miscellaneous goodies. Has bolt holes tapped in the bottom of the safe to mount to a floor too. Around $400.00.

Anyhow, it fits right in the corner of my bedroom closet. My clothes rack pulls right up to the face of it and conceals it fine. Awkward to open but works great.

Just my 2 cents worth.

JKirk in SC
aka HiVElocity:)

[a1abdj]

I wasn't suggesting that you keep your safe in plain view, simply saying that it's a fairly new mode of security :D

What I was saying, that instead of spending $20,000 on a hidden room, you could spend $20,000 on something more important as far as security is concerned.

We deliver all of our safes in an unmarked truck, and tell curious neighbors that it's a furnace when they ask. There is no need to advertise the fact that you're keeping valuables in your home.

The problem with hiding a gun safe is that they are big. We've done custom safe installations that look like microwaves, floor drains, nightstands, and a custom built safe that looked just like a water heater (complete with plumbing running to it). These safes were all smaller than your typical gun safe.

I have seen somebody take a soda machine, cut the back out, and slide it around a gun safe. They even kept the electrical components in the machine so that it would light up. Aside from that, I've seen blankets and cardboard boxes.

Those hidden doors and rooms have a big "cool" factor, but they come with a serious price tag.

[rtl]

I use two king sized sheets the color of the bare drywall, one covers the old fridge and one the safe next to it. It's on the side of the garage that we never open and between boxes stacked high on either side. Very surprisingly not visible from outside the garage with the other door open, but unfortunately pretty darn obvious to anyone who's ever been around gun safes. After the weather turns this fall I may construct some cheap shelves on hinges around it to better hide it. Would love to see plans if anyone has ever done that.

[Demiurge]

So I took a back room in my house and added one of these. Talk about camouflage!!

Ha! You are awesome. That's too badass. :D

[Punkermonkey]

Demiurge - Thanks! Actualy my wife came up with the idea. The unit replaces a standard door and is very easy to install. The total thing cost me $700.

[Langenator]

Build a lightweight plywood box to cover it, with a hasp and lock, and the tape or staple material safety data sheets for some pesticides, weed killer, cleaners, etc. Make it look like a place you store nasty stuff to keep the kids out of it.

[Griff]

How about using an old refridgerator or upright freezer? Take out the shelves, have a locksmith install a key lock in the handle, set it next to the one that's running in the garage and put some Crayola artwork and magnets on the front; a bunch of old newspapers on top. Leave the padlock and logging chain off, though.

[Diamondback6]

Well, I read somewhere about converting a scrapped large breaker-panel into a gun-safe. They're fairly sturdy, and who wants to risk getting intimate with high voltage?

Me, I favor both strength AND concealment for the built-in vault I plan when I build Casa Crotalus and retire.

Griff has a very good idea also, as long as you get one of the HEAVY antique-type. More metal=more strength. More size=more difficulty to get in, yes, but also same to get OUT.

[tegemu]

With a previous safe I considered painting it to look like a high voltage power distribution cabinet, attaching some high power cables that run from the safe into a junction box on the wall, and putting a "DANGER - HIGH VOLTAGE" sign on the front.

[Geno]

punkermonkey:

Excellent information! Thanks.

Doc2005

[SiG Lady]

What Snake Eyes said about leaving tools laying around... Just be sure the ones you leave around are BROKEN and don't work!!
1.) They're useless if stolen
2.) They're useless as burglary 'helpers'

The hidden door thing: I know homebuilders who're using these to conceal entire rooms and entire floors of homes. Totally cool.

I like the locked reefer idea.

[Langenator]

Couple of problems with a locked fridge, both having to do with the kinds of things people sometimes store in fridges/freezers.

1) Money. Not sure why people do this, but they do. So thieves will usually give them a quick tearing through.

2) Drugs. There are many kinds of presription narcotics that require refridgeration. A locked fridge is definitely going to make them think there's something worthwhile inside.

Fridges are designed to keep cold in, not people out. If the camoflage is blown, you're in trouble. If you hide an actual RSC or safe, even if the camo is blown, you've still got some decent steel between the thief and you're guns.

[zahc]

This thread reminded me of Cowboy Bebop. Spike apparently keeps his Jericho 941 in the fridge. So hiding guns in a fridge will only work if your burgler doesn't watch Cowboy Bebop.

[joab]

Here's something I've been thinking about
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174612

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Wife asked where I was going to put the safe when I took delivery. She suggested out in the garage or the shop... The garage doors are open way too often, so camoflaging would have been in order. As to the shop, well, putting it in there with the cutting torch very handy wouln't have been a smart move.

So yes, the safe did incure a couple of scratches getting it down in the basement gunroom. Unfortunately the stairwell has a 90* turn 3/4 of the way down! When I sell the house.. The safe stays.

Did the same at a friend's house. Basement gun room. Out of sight -out of mind. A professional thief will find it. Will he get in? I dunno, we have a friend who's house was hit a year or so ago. They got a lot of items from the house. The electrics of the safe were broken, but they couldn't get in for the guns. They had all day and tried with tools from his shop. Investing in that safe was worth it.

-Steve

[Double Naught Spy]

Hiding safes is something relatively new, and done solely because the safe won't pass muster against a burlgar.

No sir, this is not correct. Commercial businesses placed their safes in the front windows, front of the stores, and banks where the customers could see them, but these were commercial businesses. You never had a home with a safe that was placed in the front window.

Safes today won't pass muster and so must be hidden? Many of the old safes weren't that good. They didn't pass muster in the open.

Back in the mid 1980s, there was a Dallas Gem and Mineral show or a jewelry show my business attended. There was a wonderful demo given by a couple of guys showing the security of safes. They used a brand new safe for the demo, a jewelry safe. In 45 minutes, using sledgehammers, a top of the line safe was open.

The reason why businesses put safes out in the open was not because the safes were so secure that nobody could get into them. It was because it would take a little time and without alarm systems and the like, a little time is what was needed to break in to the safe. If it was in the front window or easily in public view, the burglars had a much greater chance of getting spotted while attempting to break in to the safe.

Banks still have massive safes, but they aren't usually out where they are plainly seen, but out of public view. They don't need to be in public view where they can be assessed by bad guys. The lack of information combined with alarm systems are what preclude giving bad guys time to break open safes, not public view.

The tactic of hiding safes, lockboxes, and valuables in general is quite old. It wasn't just that small safes could potentially be opened easier, but also simply carted away to be worked on later.

Also see
http://www.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm
http://www.timhunkin.com/94_illegal_engineering.htm (my favorite with nifty insight on how those older burglar-proof safes were easily defeated)
http://www.officemuseum.com/filing_equipment_safes.htm (nifty history)

[a1abdj]

No sir, this is not correct. Commercial businesses placed their safes in the front windows, front of the stores, and banks where the customers could see them, but these were commercial businesses. You never had a home with a safe that was placed in the front window.


Most homes in those days didn't have safes. Of course I was in one of the Vanderbuilt homes that had a vault in the kitchen for the silverware. Want to guess what it was in front of?

100 years ago, security products were built to be overkill. Banks bragged about their vaults, and even included photos of them on postcards. Other commercial businesses did the same.

The "let's keep it a total secret" is a valid security method, but it is new. Why is it new? Because if banks sent out post cards showing their security, somebody would come along and break into the vault. Just like safes, most modern day vault doors (and safes), are not as secure (as far as overkill) than they used to be.

Safes today won't pass muster and so must be hidden? Many of the old safes weren't that good. They didn't pass muster in the open.

100 year old fire safe with 2 cubic foot interior space. Weight 1,000 pounds. Constructed of 1/4" iron, and 5" of concrete fill.

Modern fire safe with 2 cubic foot interior space. Weight 350 pounds. Constructed of 14 guage steel, and 2" of gypsum.

Please tell me which safe you would rather use?

Back in the mid 1980s, there was a Dallas Gem and Mineral show or a jewelry show my business attended. There was a wonderful demo given by a couple of guys showing the security of safes. They used a brand new safe for the demo, a jewelry safe. In 45 minutes, using sledgehammers, a top of the line safe was open

Please provide me with the information regarding the guys opening the safes, and the safe which they opened. In the 1980's a top of the line jeweler's safe would have had a few inches of solid alloy. I've never heard of a sledge hammer capable of going through that. (based on 1980's bischoff catalog).

Modern day burglary rated safes are tested against all common hand tools, power tools, cutting torches, and pressure applying devices. If given the choice between a sledge and a gas operated concrete saw, I'd take the saw. It would still take more than 45 minutes.

The reason why businesses put safes out in the open was not because the safes were so secure that nobody could get into them.

100 years ago there were no power tools, cutting torches, or other modern burglary tools, yet I've seen safes that have 6 inches of laminated or magnese steel. Have you ever drilled through 6 inches of steel with one of those hand crank drills? Glycerin was the best chance back then, and even it had a hard time on steel safes.

Most of the photos of old burglaries that you see involve fire rated safes. Safes which were never really designed for the storage of valuables. Theives took advantage of valuables being stored in an improper safe 100 years ago, the same as they do today.

If it was in the front window or easily in public view, the burglars had a much greater chance of getting spotted while attempting to break in to the safe.


So why isn't that done today?

Banks still have massive safes, but they aren't usually out where they are plainly seen, but out of public view. They don't need to be in public view where they can be assessed by bad guys.

I know what banks use, because I sell it to them.

Most modern day bank vaults are not what they used to be. Many of the modular units that we install are out of sight.

Some banks will spend big money on 100 year old vault doors, and they are always visable by the public. Modern day alarms make burlgary difficult, but why hide the new vault, but display one that's 100 years old?


The tactic of hiding safes, lockboxes, and valuables in general is quite old. It wasn't just that small safes could potentially be opened easier, but also simply carted away to be worked on later.


Yes...it is quite old. But hiding safes is much more common today than it has been in the past.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm
http://www.timhunkin.com/94_illegal_engineering.htm (my favorite with nifty insight on how those older burglar-proof safes were easily defeated)
http://www.officemuseum.com/filing_equipment_safes.htm (nifty history)


I haven't looked at these sources, but seriously doubt I have to. I work with this stuff everyday, and am quite familiar with how and why it works.

Regardless, never in the history of safes, has something that has 1/10" steel (modern day gun safes) been considered secure.

Old safes were built with real craftmanship and overbuilt for their use. Modern day safes are built in the cheapest and fastest fashion that still allows them to achieve a rating.

[Griff]

Install one or two of these (link unavailable, please see CheaperTahnDirt.com item number TRAP-414, Gun Locker) in the old Norge.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I think that I read on THR a LONG while back that someone stuck a box over their's labeled X-Mas tree.

[dfaugh]

Well I used to be a "legal" safe cracker, and safe mechanic. And I can tell you that most of the gun safes you see for are are pretty much a joke, to someone that's DETERMINED to open the safe. While it might take a while, the "brute force method" will work just fine. Usually the doors are reasonablly secure, but the bodies are nothing more than thick sheet metal. Easily defeated by a circular saw w/ a metal cutting blade, or a torch. And if (highly unlikely) you get someone that really knows what they are doing, the doors can be drilled, and opened very quickly(probably 5 minutes for someone like me). In short, all the safe will do is cause someone to decide its not worth the time (risk) of sticking around to open it.

When I was in the safe (security) business, we installed a few SERIOUS gun vaults for people that had very expensive and rare gun collections. They consisted of old bank vaults, hidden behind wall panels, such that you'd never know they were there. Many were in the back of closets, with a "false wall", of other means of concealment.

Basically, my advice (if you are really that paranoid, and have a very valuable gun collection) is to "hide in plain sight". At one point I even designed a safe for the local grocery chain that did just that. They could insert money into the safe, and it had an area that contained a small amount of cash they could open and give to any robbers. BUT, the money they actual put in went into a hidden compartment, that could only be opened by the armed guards that collected the money twice a day.

[GreyMauser]

Not sophisticated, but cheap and easy: I park a locked car between the safe and garage door.

[deciple-of-keith]

A safe only keeps honest people out & opertunists ! We have by law had to store our firearms in safes for many years! You aint going to even slow a Pro down ! Fit a screamer alarm where your safe is secured something that's going to anoiy the crap out of the Neighbours & make lots of noise to disturb the Oppertunist! These people prefer soft targets that can be grabbed quickly !

Dave

[Diamondback6]

As I said, it's very difficult to crack a safe you can't even find...

The Aussie above has semi-called it. Best you can hope for is make your safe difficult enough for either a delaying action, or the cracker to decide the risk of getting caught isn't worth his time...

[Sir Aardvark]

I asked something similar:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=129173

For all I care it just has to "look" like a fridge - like if you see it from the street; I don't expect that anyone who actually inspects it up close would be fooled.

[defendfreedom]

We have exactly what you are looking for. Please feel free to review the following info:

The best way to hide a safe is to have a decoy safe and leave it open with minimal contents... Rolled coin ect. Then put a wall safe behind your bathroom door behind a picture. "A crook will never go into your bathroom and close the door behind them because they cant hear whats going on outside and I doubt seriously that their very concerned about someone hearing them use the head."

Patriot Safe Co.
www.patriotsafe.com
877.743.5372