New Enfield


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AmbulanceDriver
June 28, 2006, 12:26 PM
Just picked myself up a SMLE #4 Mk 1. I've been slowly but surely working on my WWII collection. I've gotten the battle rifles for some of the major combatants. So far I have a Yugo M48 (K98 Mauser clone), a Mosin-Nagant M44, and now the SMLE. So next is an M1 Garand, from CMP. And i may just try to pick up an Arisaka.

Gratuitous Enfield pr0n to follow. *grin*

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DMK
June 28, 2006, 02:42 PM
Nice rifle, the No.4 Enfield. I always liked the lines of the No.4. It has greats sights too and the action is just so smooth.

Don't forget to add a 91/30 Mosin to the collection. I still need the Arisaka.

Looking forward to the Enfield pr0n! :)

Limeyfellow
June 28, 2006, 11:45 PM
The Lee Enfield No4 mk1 is a really nice rifle. They were my first military surplus and my true love.

THe M48 is not a K98 clone. Sure its a Mauser but has significant differences from the K98 including but not limited too the M48 having an intermediate shorter action, the K98 having a full size action. It has a different bolt locking system with the left side protrustion omitted in the M48, while also being shorter in length. The M48 bolt is also usually not blued. The handguards are longer on the M48. The K98 has a bolt handle cut out on the stock. The Kar98 bolt handle also lies closer to the rifle. THe Kar98 can have a flat or cupped magazine release. M48s will always be cupped.

An M48 should be buyable for a $100. A true Kar98 will cost about twice as much if not more.

Sure its a good rifle but its like calling an M96 mauser a 98 and it just makes picky SOBs like me whine.

Titus
June 29, 2006, 01:14 AM
Where'd you get your Enfield?

Diomed
June 29, 2006, 01:32 AM
Sure its a good rifle but its like calling an M96 mauser a 98 and it just makes picky SOBs like me whine.

In a similar vein of pedantry, the No. 4 is not a SMLE.

So, who made it and when? All matching, I hope.

Limeyfellow
June 29, 2006, 01:49 AM
You know what I would love. A No.1 Mk VI trial rifle. That would really make my day with the magazine cutoff and all the fancy stuff. True beauties though I only ever seen them in museums.

I did buy an all matching No1 Mk1 smle the other day though. Dated 1909 and updated to Mk3. Shame it lost its magazine cutoff and volley sights but it was in excellent condition, all matching numbers and only cost me $130. That made me a happy fellow.

AmbulanceDriver
June 29, 2006, 01:55 AM
That's what I love about THR. Always learning something from those with more knowledge. :)

I always thought the M48 was a close copy (Yugoslav clone) of the K98. I'm glad to know that little bit of additional info. But I still love my M48. :)

I actually picked up the Enfield at a local GI Joes, for those not in the Pacific Northwest, it's typically an overpriced sports & auto place. But they had these on sale for $150, so I figured, eh, what the heck. And I really thought the No 4 Mk1 was a SMLE. Yet another tidbit of knowledge. As for where/when it was manufactured, not sure, but unfortunately it came with the dangblasted Century Arms import marks, which I couldn't see in the store because of all the dangblasted cosmoline on the thing. Let me take a gander at the marks on the receiver, and see if I can either deduce the when/where, or if one of you whiz kids out there that know more about the LE can tell me. *grin*

On the left side of the receiver, there is a small stamp of a circle with (maybe a crown) over it. Next to it is stamped the number 5. Then is No4 MkI with an asterisk to the right of that. It is stamped U.S. PROPERTY. The number 5 is stamped on it in several places, including the mag well and near the front sight. On the stock, just behind the trigger guard, is stamped a capital "S" inside a circle. Below the serial #, just above the trigger guard on the left side, is either a capital "B" or "R" (difficult to tell for sure. And no, unfortunately it's not all matching.

pr0n coming as soon as I can get my camera batteries charged.

Limeyfellow
June 29, 2006, 02:04 AM
Good news that the Lee Enfields have about the best webpage of all military surplus on it when it comes to markings and differnet types.

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/

Its a good start for newbie Enfield owners and you can always go from there should you get the Lee Enfield collecting bug and is why I keep having to explain how various new ones keep appearing every 2 or 3 months in my collection.

Diomed
June 29, 2006, 02:23 AM
Ah, okay. Your rifle is actually a No. 4 Mk I*, made by Savage. How's the bolthead? Does it stay on its rail? They can get dinged and not want to work right, which is why I avoid the Mk I*s.

The mismatch doesn't mean it's ruined, you'll just need to get the headspace checked and maybe the evenness of the lug bearings (which affects accuracy and to a small extent safety, though only after thousands of rounds).

You know what I would love. A No.1 Mk VI trial rifle. That would really make my day with the magazine cutoff and all the fancy stuff. True beauties though I only ever seen them in museums.

I'm not so high on the Mk VIs. Look too much like No. 4s (which lack the elegance of the SMLE). I much prefer the Mk V. The looks of the SMLE, with an aperture sight and the reinforced foreend! Lovely rifles.

I did buy an all matching No1 Mk1 smle the other day though. Dated 1909 and updated to Mk3. Shame it lost its magazine cutoff and volley sights but it was in excellent condition, all matching numbers and only cost me $130. That made me a happy fellow.

I'm envious! If the foreend is cut you can add the cutoff back in without much trouble. The only matching Mk I to Mk IIIs I know of are selling for about a thousand a piece.

AmbulanceDriver
June 29, 2006, 02:27 AM
:) She's not the prettiest, but I'm gonna look forward to shooting her..... And yes, I will definitely get the headspace checked. I remember something about the bolthead and the stamping on the bolthead itself (this one is stamped "5") relating to the headspace. I know I have much more reading to do. :D

Also just learned something new (thanks for the Enfield webpage link, btw). My particular rifle also came with a mis-matched bayonet, the bayo for the No4 MkII

Diomed
June 29, 2006, 03:24 AM
I remember something about the bolthead and the stamping on the bolthead itself (this one is stamped "5") relating to the headspace.

It is stamped for size, but it isn't a 5 - they came in sizes 0 to 4. Maybe a poorly-struck 3? In which case you have a valuable head, if you can find 3s they start at $30-50 apiece and they are rare. I can't even remember seeing a 4 for sale.

Any headspace under .074" is fine, at least if you're not into reloading.

My particular rifle also came with a mis-matched bayonet, the bayo for the No4 MkII

Oh no, you have the right one, if it's marked that. There are three kinds of bayonets for the No. 4. The main and most common is the No. 4 bayonet (makes sense), which comes in three marks. Mk I is quite rare, Mk II/II* is most common, and Mk III is somewhat unusual. There was also the No. 7 Mk 1, which also fits the Sterling SMG, and the No. 9 Mk 1, which is like the No. 4 but with a bowie blade.

Looks like a nice rifle! Definitely a Savage No. 4 Mk I*. Have you considered replacing the rear sight with an adjustable one? They're fairly cheap. You also have the sling on correctly, most folks have it on backwards.

Have you checked to see how many grooves the barrel has?

Detritus
June 29, 2006, 01:18 PM
It is stamped for size, but it isn't a 5 - they came in sizes 0 to 4. Maybe a poorly-struck 3?

based on the "Square S" and Ordnance "flaming bomb" stamped on the left side of the receiver, i'd say that the rifle is a No4 Mk1* produced by savage under lend-lease. and Therefore the "5" is another savage "squared S"

the actual bolt head size number is in a slightly different and less obvious place on the bolt head. on mine the S was on the top the bolt head, and the size marking was on the right side on the "wing" that houses the extractor

i had the same "wait a minute is that a 5 on my bolt!!??!!" :what: moment when i first got my own savage. i quickly calmed down once i found the little "1" that was the legit number.

AmbulanceDriver
June 29, 2006, 06:08 PM
Yeah, I found the correct number "2" on the side of the bolthead with the extractor as well. I had again found the (as described above" squared "S" that is *ALL OVER* this gun. It's actually kinda amusing. :)

Was gonna run it in to a gunsmith since I don't have the gauges for headspacing, but then I realized that with the wealth of knowledge already in this thread, I might as well ask.

Is it possible with a set of calipers to measure the headspace?

ArmedBear
June 29, 2006, 06:10 PM
I got a No4Mk1. Then I saw a No1Mk3. I had to buy that. Next....

Enfields are dangerous.:p

DMK
June 29, 2006, 09:07 PM
Very nice Savage. :) You got a good deal.

The Lend Lease Savage is one of the more collectable No.4s. Enjoy! :)

DougW
June 29, 2006, 09:41 PM
Amb Driver, you can get a Foster Field headspace gauge and check the chamber. remember, the .303 headspaces on the rim, not the neck of the cartridge. A simple test I use is to close the bolt on an empty chamber, holding the trigger back to release tension on the firing pin. Then, with the bolt closed, hold the rifle in the low ready position, and with your right hand, try to push forward on the bolt handle. You are looking for any lateral movement of the whole bolt. If it moves some, then the headspace is a little loose. No movement means that the head space is probably great. Blast away!:evil:

Most gunsmith's will not have the actual military headspace gauges. The Foster is SAAMI, and is shorter than the mil spec gauges. But, the Field gauge is a good indicator and better than nothing. My primary shooter will close on a Foster Field, but has no lateral movement, and it is a dandy shooter. Only 5 of my 13 Enfields will close on the Foster Field gauge.

If you feel the need to change the head space, then you need to get a different bolt head. They are numbered 0,1,2, and 3. 3 is the longest available. Have fun!!:D

MJ
June 29, 2006, 11:53 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/897f9c7a.jpg


:cool:
MJ

AmbulanceDriver
June 30, 2006, 12:24 AM
DougM, tried your test on the closed bolt. Nary a wiggle. Matter of fact, it was solid as a rock, probably would take a deadblow hammer to move the thing when the bolt is closed. I'll probably pick up the field headspace gauge just to learn a little more about my new addicti... I mean, *addition*

Also checked the bore, it has two grooves. And yes, I'm planning on replacing the two position rear sight with an adjustable. Any suggestions on where to find a quality adjustable sight?

Diomed
June 30, 2006, 01:37 AM
simple test I use is to close the bolt on an empty chamber, holding the trigger back to release tension on the firing pin. Then, with the bolt closed, hold the rifle in the low ready position, and with your right hand, try to push forward on the bolt handle. You are looking for any lateral movement of the whole bolt. If it moves some, then the headspace is a little loose. No movement means that the head space is probably great.

Interesting, I've never heard of this method before.

AmbulanceDriver - if you're looking for gauges, Yankee Engineering (http://members.aol.com/yankeng/) has a pretty good rep. They're cut so that you don't have to remove the extractor. If all you're going to be doing is plinking, just get a milspec Field gauge. If you're looking at precision work, get a No Go (SAAMI is fine). You may want to invest in a good striker removal tool as well. You can get cheap ones that tend to break (though mine seems to be doing fine) or really expensive ones that will probably outlive you.

Adjustable sights aren't hard to find, check ebay or Springfield Sporters. Target sights are a different ballgame - think Parker Hale.

MJ - showoff! Are those real (T)s or homebrews?

monsternav
June 30, 2006, 09:51 AM
Try here:

www.e-gunparts.com

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=531460&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

MJ
June 30, 2006, 10:32 AM
Not!

Most of my rifles have #0 or #1 bolt heads. Enfields will still have large chambers even when they pass the GO test.

Cheers
MJ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/24fdc8a9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/9f81ff5e.jpg

DougW
June 30, 2006, 04:25 PM
MJ. I don't think I will ever get tired of looking at your T's!

Ambi Driver, what Diomed said. I forgot about Yankee.

Good shooting!!

MJ
June 30, 2006, 11:06 PM
But all being said and reviewed I think all we need to worry about is the field gauge. Bolt set back would be a problem. Reloaders are worried about the life of the brass. The Enfield had very open chambers. The brass will not have a good or long life. Sope wise and replace after three reloads. You will also cull out 5% every resizing. The problem if it is one would be the generious chamber mouth. Brass will flow to fill this area even on a tight head space. post war shooters shortened the chamber end of the barrel and reamed to fit. Tighter head support was the result. Longer brass life and some improment in shot placement but only just some. As the surplus ammo is gone for the best part you will have to make your own. My Brass life is short because I shoot more than one Enfield so I full size so I can just pick the next box of shells and go. It would be a little better if I paried the cases to a #' rifle but I tried that and while I had loaded ammo I didn't have ammo for the rifle I wanted to use. I settled on a load and just replace what I used or added some new. It is all the same every time.

Just my .02. I can't be shortining barrels and reamming chambers now can I?:cuss:

Thanks to Mr. A Driver for hosting this topic.

Cheers
*MJ*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/895b52da.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/6697d190.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/c58a9e86.jpg

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