Is this idea completely insane?


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ABTOMAT
June 28, 2006, 11:21 PM
Or should I say "insane in a bad way?" Insane can be good, too. :) Humor me for a moment, it's been a very long day...

OK, the thought: I am a hobby machinist at the "still learning" level and I've started looking at all sorts of neat stuff paintball people have come up with. For instance, one fellow is making lovely S&W K-frame lookalike lower frames to mount Sheridan uppers on. Markers (PB guns) seem like an easier artistic medium (oh man, I can't believe I said that) to work with than firearms, given the lack of legal mess and low pressures/loose tolerances involved. And I feel like a summer project to keep me in the cool basement.

With me so far? Now for the actual idea: Make a paintball marker that uses as many off-the-shelf "real" parts as possible. Many older pump markers used simple pump designs, blued barrels, and wooden stocks but have been mostly replaced by the electronic Star Wars stuff that they make now. I want to take things towards the traditional look even more than before. For the record, this isn't something I'd actually be toting around in public, and I probably would affix an orange barrel tip.

My initial plan is to use a Remington 870 foundation. Find an old set of furniture, a pitted, bulged, or otherwise messed up barrel, and likely some peripheral parts like trigger guard, slide parts, and perhaps the magazine tube. The marker barrel would be mounted with bushings inside the original. The receiver would be entirely custom, probably shorter than the original and mostly solid aluminum other than gas passages. I haven't worked out whether the mag tube will hold the CO2 and the .68 magazine will be external, or the other way around, but all in good time.

So do I need to get some sleep, or what? Just seems like when it comes to metal shop projects minature steam engines only take you so far.

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Preacherman
June 28, 2006, 11:30 PM
Sounds like a fun idea. The only problem is, if you're using real gun parts, the ATF might look upon you with a very jaundiced eye indeed . . . you'll need to make sure that you're on the side of the angels on this one. Might be a good idea to write to them, inform them of what you want to do, and get their written (I repeat, WRITTEN!!!) approval before proceeding.

ABTOMAT
June 28, 2006, 11:35 PM
Do you think that would be an issue at all? I mean, only the wood, a couple external parts, and the barrel (which would have most of the chamber end cut off off) would be present from the real thing. No receiver, internals, feed, etc. It's a non-gun. I thought it would be along the lines of folks who put stuff like CAR-15 and SPAS-12 stocks on their airsoft or paintball gear. Or to a lesser extent like the guys who build Sten replicas from parts using a wooden receiver.

My current idea on layout would place the gas where the mag tube used to be. The actual mag would be located above the reciver like a scope. That would facilitate the use of bulk feeders if I ever had the notion.

redneckrepairs
June 28, 2006, 11:41 PM
sounds like nap time to me lol , eventualy at least locals will hear your modding guns and then doing whateaver with them , a great recipee to get your house tossed at the minimum . i am also at the hobby stage on machining but am going more to accessorys , sight pushers , aluminum mag bases ect to hone my minimal machine skills lol

MachIVshooter
June 29, 2006, 12:03 AM
It is perfectly legal to manufacture your own firearms, so long as they are for personal use (cannot sell them) and do not violate any other firearm laws (full auto, SBR/SBS, AOW, etc.). Additionally, it is my understanding that you can use manufactured parts as long as they don't violate importation laws. Of course, if you choose to use a ready-made reciever, you will have to go through the same old background check. In light of this, I can't see that there'd be a problem making a painball gun (non-firearm) using some gun parts. It may, however, be adviseable to keep the barrel over 18" so that some gung-ho agent does not accuse you of having parts for an SBS.

Sylvan-Forge
June 29, 2006, 12:27 AM
ABTOMAT, I think you've got an excellent idea.

nadeem
June 29, 2006, 07:40 AM
these already exist. they make replica AK-47s, AR 15s and MP5s i think. they eject spent cartriges and all! they are great and the operation is very similar to that of a real rifle. about 500 dollars i think. ill try and find the web page


EDIT: there we go. http://rap4.com/paintball/os/paintball-gunmarker-series-markers-c-21_158.html

these are the realistic ones. they are pretty cool. you can also fit M203's onto them and stuff. the website also has videos

this one shows you everything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROHWct_7Fv8&search=rap4

Chipperman
June 29, 2006, 01:23 PM
There is a pretty cool M1919 machine gun there too. Inside is a Tippmann A5.

Wes Janson
June 29, 2006, 07:53 PM
I really, really doubt the ATF would have any room to trouble you. You're not making firearms of any sort, and you're not using firearm recievers in any way. I'm not a lawyer, but I really don't see how they'd have any remote grounds for doing much of anything. I've never heard of them caring much about paintball beyond suppressers (which they recently changed their ruling on) anyhow.

ABTOMAT
June 29, 2006, 09:12 PM
Nadeem, those look really neat. That's the kind of thing I'm aiming for, so to speak. Wonder if there'd be any LEO market for a pump trainer?

ABTOMAT
June 29, 2006, 11:02 PM
Upon further reflection it looks like a real barrel wouldn't work. Like an idiot I failed to realize there's no easy way to put a .69 ID barrel into a .729 ID barrel without some majorly tough machining (either free machine an impossibly thin insert, or bore out the 870 barrel, or press an unmachined insert into the 870 barrel and bore it out.) Unless I want to use rare .50 or .43 balls.

On the plus side, this makes actually designing the thing easier. No more working around someone else's dimensions. I suppose a free-floating barrel wouldn't be out of the question, although I'd prefer a forward ring.

pdowg881
June 30, 2006, 12:13 AM
I bolt action paintball gun seems pretty neat. You could have mags and everything. You should make something where the mag holds the 12gram c02 and paint so you just reload the mag and keep shootin.

Vitamin G
June 30, 2006, 04:46 PM
You might consider finding a way to mount a pump marker, such as a Sniper 2 or Phantom, into a wood stock. Perhaps machine a bolt handle into the paintball gun in a historically accurate manner that mimicks a rifle. You could likely use a 4oz tank, or even 12grams for this gun. I know the phantom gas system gets about 30+ shots at full power from a single 12gram. Ruger 10/22 stocks will likely be cheap.
You might try whitewolfairsmithing.com for a custom 18"+ barrel. He's a pretty good guy. If you go with the phantom, you'd have your option of stock class (10 or 15 round horizontal tube), verticle feed, or side feeds. I considered doing it myself, but with an automag, which would be semiautomatic. Either one would be an inline design, without the clunky open bolt blowback format.

Keep us (me) informed. I'm definately interested in seeing your results.

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