CCW - A PIT BULL - AND A 45


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johnny blaze
June 29, 2006, 02:55 AM
I attened an auction that I attend almost every week.
I get out of my car and start walking towards the auction building.
I get about 2/3 of the way there, and I hear a noise behind me. I see spmething coming fairly fast behind me.
I turn, and it is a pit bull.
I look him in the eyes and he stops about 10 feet from me. He starts growling very loudly.
I have my hand on my pistol. The owner runs up and grabs the dogs leash.
He never says "sorry", or anything.
I went on the the auction building, and a guy tells me that the same dog attacked a dog that belonged to a friend of his, and it had to be treated.
I really wasn't scared. Alot of things went through my mind, however.
The police station is only about 50 yards away. I started thinking, "wonder if I would have shot the dog if he attacked, what would have happened?" There is the legal aspect, the loud noise of a 45 going off, just alot of things going through my mind.
The sheriff of our county was at the auction and I told him about it. He said that if he attacked you, you have the right to shoot him. Of course there would be the investigation, probably the hand gun being seized, and whatever else may happen.
I have never came this close to shooting something in civalian life before.
I cannot believe that all of these things went through my mind. It sure is alot to think about. Really strange.
Anyone else have these same thoughts in a situation like this?:confused:

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Browns Fan
June 29, 2006, 08:22 AM
Quote:
"The police station is only about 50 yards away. I started thinking, "wonder if I would have shot the dog if he attacked, what would have happened?" There is the legal aspect, the loud noise of a 45 going off, just alot of things going through my mind."

It depends on where you're at; jurisdiction is everything.

dracphelan
June 29, 2006, 10:18 AM
I completely understand how you feel. I had a similar situation with a pit bull and me. This one belonged to a relative of my next door neighbor and trapped me in my garage while I was doing laundry. Luckily, it went away before I had to do something. I called the city animal control, and they were unable to do anything because the owner got it back in the yard before they showed up. I told the owner that if it happened again, the dog will be dead. He took it somewhere else.
I've known plenty of sweet and gentle pit bulls who would never harm a person. But, to many people own them and do their best to make them vicious so they can look tough.

atlctyslkr
June 29, 2006, 10:40 AM
What types of jurisdictional issues are you worried about? Most places have ordinances about discharging firearms in heavily populated areas but there is always some disclaimer in the ordinance relating to self defense or other lawful purpose.

The police shoot lots of dogs here. Seems like everytime they have to go and arrest a gangbanger they shoot atleast one dog in the process. I know if I shot a breed of known attack dog there probably would be little to no investigation. I have been fortunate to not ever been in a situation to have to shoot a dog or even think about it.

ball3006
June 29, 2006, 10:56 AM
had a pit bull charge me, growling and barking, and I loosed a round from my AK between his feet, too lazy to SSS. I think he is still running. It was out in the country at my camp. I have pulled a knife on a dog while walking around the neighborhood, before I had a little gun, and the owner was really worried I was going to stick his dog. Yep, I would have if it got that close. He apologized though. Most guys that have that type of dog have a serious attitude problem. I haven't come across a friendly one yet......chris3

Offwhite
June 29, 2006, 12:20 PM
So you've never met a nice American Pit Bull Terrier. You guys say what you want but they're not bad dogs. I currently have about a 70 lb female & she is with out a doubt the sweetest dog I've ever owned or been around. You raise your voice to her & her world crumbles (as with most normal Pits). Pit Bulls & fighting dogs in general were not breed to be aggressive towards people. In the hay-day of dog fighting, the dogs were all put on pedestals that were pretty much waist high to a person, and everyone bidding on the fights came around & checked out the dogs. If the dogs ever showed any aggression towards the people they were not allowed to fight. This was for two reasons:1 because the handlers in the rings were not the owners/trainers of the dogs so a stranger had to be able to take the dogs in the ring, allow them to fight then bring them back to the owners/trainers. 2 When a dog shows aggression to people it is a sign that they are scared or afraid, which in the world of dog fighting is considered a weakness, so owners/trainers breed this trait of aggression towards people out of the dogs because if they couldn't fight then they were out of a lot of money & time. Most of the dogs you guys are talking about are owned by unethical people who beat & torture there dogs to make them mean & hateful. You can train any dog to be a monster doesn't matter the size or breed. My parents raised Dobermans while I was a kid & they was never ever any problems with any of those dogs, because of training & the handling of the dogs.

The only two times I've been bit was by a Dalmatian & a Cocker spaniel & that Cocker was the meanest dog I've ever been around.

Newton
June 29, 2006, 12:29 PM
The problem with Pit Bulls isn't whether they are aggressive or not, it's their capability to cause damage.

A fiend of mine had a black lab and the family had him for 14 years without a single incident. He was an old fella and no mistake. One day they trapped his tail in a folding car seat by accident and he went berserk, biting and snapping at the kids, a few serious bites needed a trip to the ER.

If that had been a Pit Bull, imagine the carnage.

I feel sorry that we created such a dangerous breed, it's our fault not the dog's, but they exist, and I don't believe they should. They just have no place in anyones home as a pet - the notion is just plain wrong, and what would attract a person to own such a breed in the first place.

Sawdust
June 29, 2006, 12:33 PM
http://users.adelphia.net/~hudak/Ah%20Jeez_crap.jpg

Sawdust

American_Pit_Bull
June 29, 2006, 12:34 PM
I feel sorry that we created such a dangerous breed, it's our fault not the dog's, but they exist, and I don't believe they should. They just have no place in anyones home as a pet - the notion is just plain wrong, and what would attract a person to own such a breed in the first place.
Sounds like someone that is preaching that no one should be able to own "assult weapons." Same rational. They have the ability to cause more damage, but when owned by responsible, law-abiding citizens, they are every bit as safe as the next breed/gun.

Erebus
June 29, 2006, 01:06 PM
I really wasn't scared. Alot of things went through my mind, however.

I cannot believe that all of these things went through my mind. It sure is alot to think about. Really strange.
Anyone else have these same thoughts in a situation like this?

Nope I wasn't armed when it happened to me. Whole different plethoria of things go through your mind when you aren't armed.

How do I fight this thing? Am I going to die? Can I run or climb anywhere the dog can't? Am I going to need medical attention and how will I be able to get it? Can I kill a dog with my bare hands? I used to be a paperboy, this happened more than once. Never got bitten. Kicked one in the chops and it ran, kicked dirt in another's face and was able to run onto a porch and close a door behind me. Friend of mine in middle school got chewed up bad at the bus stop once.

Oh and the nicest dog on my paperroute was a pit bull. Sable(Rip) I used to bring her treats all the time and she would accompany me on my route. Never got attacked again after she started following me around, never got mugged either and that was uncommon in my area at that time.

Offwhite
June 29, 2006, 01:52 PM
Look I'm not saying that they don't cause damage when they bite, but there are a lot of other breeds that cause just as much if not more damage than Pit Bulls. Until last December I had a Neapolitan Mastiff (there an Italian breed) that was a little over 170 lbs of power & strength. He carried a regulation size basketball in his mouth, would chew up tires, I had to have a custom made collar to fit around his 32 in neck (these are not exaggerations), was trained to be a protection dog & was highly protective (not aggressive but protective big difference) but when I would walk the two (Mojo my Neo & my Pit Precious) down the street everyone wanted to come up to Mojo even though he didn't care to have attention from other people but then people coward at the sight of a dog less that half his size eager to say "hi." If push comes to shove, Mojo would have been able to tear someone into pieces...literally, and Precious would lick a mugger to death.

41643

unspellable
June 29, 2006, 01:57 PM
One the one hand, the analogy between dog ownership and firearm ownership doesn't hold up because a dog is capable of independent decision and action.

On the other hand, almost every time you hear of a pit bull attacking some one a little checking will reveal that it was not a true pure bred pit bull or if it was it came from some very poor lines. As stated above, aggressivness towards humans has been bred out of them for the last umpity years. They are said to make poor watch dogs as they are likely to view an intruder as a new friend. The Rottwieler on the other hand was bred as a guard dog.

Dobermans have a reputation too, but if you've been around them (My dad used to raise them.) you know them for the inherently friendly dogs they are.

But there is always a certain element that has to have the biggest meanest baddest dog on the block and any dog can be trained to act that way.

Some people raise their kids that way.

Roadwild17
June 29, 2006, 02:27 PM
Even though dogs are domesticated, I believe they still have a bit of wild in them. I've grown up with various dogs and have been bitten twice in my like (one needed 2 stitches). The first time was when I was 8 and my aunt’s palm decided he didn’t like me, so he bit the crap out of my finger and wouldn’t stop, it required some stitches and that was that. I held its toy rope a second too long (we were playing tug-o-war), so it decided to tare into my hand. The second dog bit was by my German Shepard that was the best dog in the world. The local PD wanted to use her as a search and rescue dog. She would be able to find a person (me) after riding a ATV for a few miles and she would drag you back by the wrist if need be. Might take some time if need be, but she would get it done. Anyway, when she had her pups for the first time, her first pup wasn’t exactly the strongest (she didn’t know what to do with it) so my dad stayed up front and rubbed her head and kinda held her while I snuck to get the pup, somehow she figured out what was going on (she was a very smart girl :) ) Broke free from my dad and gave me the slightest snip on my hand. Point being, any dog bought up in the right condition can be dangerous, regardless of bread or size.

1911Tuner
June 29, 2006, 02:50 PM
OffWhite, as an owner of a sissy Pitbull, I agree. It's not the breed, but rather the owner/handler of the dog that makes a Pit (or any other dog) vicious and aggressive...and one of the meanest dogs that I've ever met was a Cocker Spaniel. But...The topic isn't about Pitbulls. It's about *A* pit that
came at a person. FWIW, I jump to defend the little sweethearts whenever somebody bad-mouths the whole breed too...so I can empathize.

You're not far from me. Come for a visit sometime. I like talkin' about dogs as much as I like talkin' about guns.:cool:

Offwhite
June 29, 2006, 03:59 PM
I'm in High Point, where abouts in Lexington are you? I'm actually in the part of HP that is in Davidson county, so when I have to file court papers I have to come to Lexington.

Jeff
June 29, 2006, 04:13 PM
Where in the world does this amazingly naive misconception come from that all vicious dogs, or more importantly, vicious dog attacks, are the fault of the owner? This simply isn't true.

Sometimes dogs attack because of something that triggers a fearful reaction in their tiny little brains.

Sometimes dogs will attack because they are independent, thinking, and primitively emotional creatures.

It's not always because of the owner.

1911Tuner
June 29, 2006, 04:57 PM
"Where in the world does this amazingly naive misconception come from that all vicious dogs, or more importantly, vicious dog attacks, are the fault of the owner? This simply isn't true."
***********************

Certainly not all...but after breeding, handling, training, and presently owning 12 dogs of various breeds for years, I've found that most dog bites are generally at least half the fault of the one bitten. Sometimes the trigger is subtle, and sometimes it's obvious. Bites and true attacks aren't the same thing. A bite and release is a warning, and usually occurs because the bitee missed or ignored the first three or four.

When asked if my dogs bite, my answer is:

All dogs will bite if you push the right buttons. It's usually up to you.

Outright attacks are different, and go against a dog's nature unless the dog is :
Feral and starving...Sick, rabid, or in intense pain...Nuts...Protecting their young...Or has been taught that human beings are legitimate targets. In the case of the Pitbull, it's usually the very last cause because Pits, as a rule, are submissive and overly friendly toward people. Mine, for example is completely stupid over small children, especially little girls.

OffWhite,

I'm about three miles off the I-85/Old US 64 exit...The one that you'll likely take to get to the courthouse/town hall on Center Street.

CSA 357
June 29, 2006, 05:18 PM
1911, I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK, I TOO HAVE HAD MANY PIT BULLS THEY ALL LOVED MY LITTLE GIRLS AND MINDED THEM JUST LIKE THEY DID ME, I HAD ONE THAT WOULD GO OUT IN THE WOODS AND CATCH SNAKES AND BRING THEM BACK TO ME, HE WOULD ONLY KILL THEM AFTER HE SHOWED THEM TO ME,I CRYED LIKE A BABY THE DAY I LOST HIM,*CSA*

gripper
June 29, 2006, 05:24 PM
dobies and PBT's all my life.No problems...I must be doing domething wrong:neener: .
Years ago,I DID have someone sick a brindle PBT on me in Lawrence ,Ma while I was doing a job there.my partener was going to shhot the dog;I suckered him into another room and shut the door. Than we beat the ***** out of the owner.Dog was only doing what his owner wanted-most dogs will move heaven and earth to get the approval of their "Alpha".....sufficient to say I wante dto kill the owner,because frankly;I love dogs in general.And I have a soft spot fot the breed in question.

dracphelan
June 29, 2006, 05:36 PM
Where in the world does this amazingly naive misconception come from that all vicious dogs, or more importantly, vicious dog attacks, are the fault of the owner? This simply isn't true.

Well, unless the person is on the dog owners property, it is the dog owner's responsibility to see that the dog is not running around loose where it can attack someone else. And, with the breeds that are perceived as "tough", all to often the animal was improperly trained.
When you own an animal, you are responsible for its actions. As an example, my sister had a Maltese. We moved to the country, the dog got out, and killed a couple of our neighbors chickens. The neighbours where nice and tried to say we didn't have to do anything besides keeping the dog away from their chickens. My parents insisted that we pay to replace the chickens, and they made sister work it off.
A dog attack is at best the same as a negligent discharge of a firearm. It doesn't matter if it is a chihuahua (.22) or a pit bull (.45).

Jeff
June 29, 2006, 10:50 PM
I consider it negligence to own something that has a mind of its own, and can maul people to death. If you have a sweet pit bull, or any other breed, then fine. If you have one that is fearful and prone to attacking other people, the fact that it CAN get away is negligence in and of itself.

It still doesn't change the fact that not all dog attacks are the result of improper handling, training or outright abuse. For example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/06/national/main699773.shtml

Animal behavior experts have theorized that the attack could have been linked to different stresses on the dogs, including the family's imminent move to Oregon and the possibility that the female dog was in heat, triggering increased aggression in the male.

"The pit bulls that killed the boy were described as friendly, and people start looking at their friendly dog and asking if it could do the same thing," Campbell said.

Creeping Incrementalism
June 29, 2006, 11:40 PM
The best quote from that article was this, from Gavin Newsom:

"If we can't change people's behavior and make them think what's in their best interest, then that's when government comes along and becomes a bit paternalistic."

unspellable
June 30, 2006, 08:36 AM
This isn't just a dog problem. I was once attacked by a horse! Not to mention that you can be bitten or kicked with out it being an attack. Same applies to assorted other animals.

You have to strike a balance here. Other wise we avoid sharp pointy objects and live in padded cells.

If people handled their dogs properly it would eliminate 98 44/100% of the problems.

Justin
June 30, 2006, 10:56 AM
This one's pretty much left the realm of being gun-related.

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