Who Here Has Actually Been In A Gunfight?


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Lord Soth
May 1, 2003, 07:57 PM
Just out of curiosity, who here has actually been in a real gunfight?

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Sven
May 1, 2003, 07:58 PM
Thats a FAQ by new members. Most folks won't talk about it, for personal and/or legal reasons.

One guy who has been there and done that is QuarterBoreGunner.

Here is the account:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12725&highlight=National

He prob. saved a few dozen lives that day.

QuarterBoreGunner
May 1, 2003, 08:18 PM
Sven says nice things.

I was lucky, bad guy was dumb.

Trial is way over and bad guy is rotting in prison.

Yes I was sued by the mutt and yes it was settled out of court by the insurance company (over my very vocal and profane complaints).

9mmepiphany
May 1, 2003, 08:24 PM
it is somewhat bad form to ask, unless the other person brings it up themselves...especially on the internet

i'm not offended, just commenting

if we were to ever meet socially, and the subject came up, i'd more then likely comment...but that's just me

Correia
May 1, 2003, 10:01 PM
There are many folks on this board who have been in gun fights. Including one who was the subject of an Ayoob file.

Here is the thing. Most of them don't want to talk about it in a setting like this.

TheeBadOne
May 1, 2003, 10:13 PM
Exactly

Mastrogiacomo
May 1, 2003, 10:15 PM
Live and learn. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone. Just probably trying to get information. Maybe someone could recommend a good book on the subject for him to follow up on.:)

444
May 1, 2003, 10:23 PM
Back when I was married I bought an AKS without asking my wife. If we had a disagreement about anything she brought it up. No matter what the fight was about initially, it became a gun fight.

mgjohn
May 1, 2003, 11:41 PM
I hurt someones feelings once. Does that count??

geekWithA.45
May 2, 2003, 02:00 AM
They kept saying:

"Take me to the range! Feed Me! Shoot with me!"

and I kept saying:

"Nay! For I must work! I must catchup after vacation!"

The whimpered, but accepted my wisdom.

Oddly enough, despite their dissapointment, not a single one of them went on a shooting rampage, or sent out violence inspiring telepathic waves to the people in the neighborhood.

But then again, I have them well trained.

riddleofsteel
May 2, 2003, 08:34 AM
Two of my guns got in a fight yesterday. The .45 blew the poor little .22 away.

Sad

Very sad

:scrutiny:

Don Gwinn
May 2, 2003, 10:01 AM
No offense is generally taken. And it's understood that most people would not bring it up on their own, so asking is the only option. As long the questioner understands that he probably won't get an answer, there's no real problem.

(No, I have not been in a gunfight--I've just seen the question a lot.)

Back in the TFL days, we had a member named ChrisMkIV whose wife had a short gunfight with a rapist who had not remembered to bring a gun of his own. He had the advantage of surprise because she didn't wake up until he was on top of her, but won the surprise contest by pulling Chris's 1911 out from under the pillow. She won the fight, too. He was never caught, to my knowledge. She was quite distraught and badly beaten, but she was not raped.
Chris's Wife, Pt. 2 (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35959&highlight=wife+rape)

Chris's Wife Pt.1 (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35848&perpage=25&highlight=wife%20rape&pagenumber=1)


Tamara once had a gunfight with a stalker who, again, forgot to bring a gun for the occasion. She won. Pants were soiled. No shots were fired.

fish2xs
May 2, 2003, 11:10 AM
I understand the personal and legal issues that a person would have for not telling their story. However, alot can be learned from the first hand accounts - both about the incident and the aftermath.

If anyone is on the fence about this, what you share could help save someone's life. Can this be done anonymously?

Wilhelm
May 2, 2003, 11:36 AM
we had a member named ChrisMkIV whose wife had a short gunfight with a rapist who had not remembered to bring a gun of his own.



Thats the only kind of gunfight I have been in. Unfortunaltely I was the one who had forgot the gun.



Wilhelm

thaddeus
May 2, 2003, 01:26 PM
My experience is almost identical to SaxonPig's. I never understood the big deal about sharing your story. Sometimes I think some "tough guys" (no one here) use that as an excuse to cover up the fact they have no story.

When I have time to type, I have shared my experiences in grueling detail on these forums. Unfortunately I do not have time to type right now.
I have had a lot of exciting non-firearm experiences. But, to be honest, the shooting experiences really are not that exciting in print, while they were very "high pucker factor" in person.


PS- Hello Don Gwinn! Good to see you. Been a while since we crossed e-paths.

bogie
May 2, 2003, 02:11 PM
One thing I've noticed is that planning (and to some extent training) tends to be the first casualty... Anyone else remember that pawnbroker down in FLA who had a ninjawannabe that he turned down after a NICS negged who came back with a katana? The pawnshop guy got cut a coupla times, one a through penetration, and finally remembered that he had a .25 in his pocket, and put a few in an eye socket... Thing is, IIRC, he'd moved past a loaded AR...

QuarterBoreGunner
May 2, 2003, 02:17 PM
Practice practice practice.

Muscle memory really works.

Tunnel vision happens.

Auditory exclusion happens.

And sometimes JHP doesn't expand- keep shooting until BG goes down.

Leadbutt
May 2, 2003, 02:35 PM
Lord Soth, as others have posted it pops up from time to time.
Other than the Millitary where I was involved in some shootings in over 30 years as a Cop now I have been involved and survived 3 shootings. The main thing to remember is that it happens so quick it will be the training or you will to survie that will pull you through.

Flashpoint
May 2, 2003, 02:43 PM
I was in a few gun fights with my wife. Especialy over me wanting to actually buy a gun when I got my CCW. She had no problem when I took the class but never thought I would actually buy a gun:scrutiny: :rolleyes: . That's probably not what you are looking for, but that's the closest I have to offer.


Hey, 1/4boregunner. What kind of Insurance covers shooting a person in self-defense?

Ari
May 2, 2003, 02:52 PM
I've never been in a gun fight where I actually had a gun on me. Which has now changed. But I've been shot. Once when I was younger, I was shot while at a party by some idiot that got in a fight earlier and asked to leave. He came back and sprayed the place with a .25. I was standing outside, and was shot near my gut. I didn't even realize that I had been shot. It happend too fast, I didn't even know what was going on. A guy standing next to me fell backwards during the confusion when the shots rang out, breaking my nose with the back of his head, and at the same time a bullet ricocheted and hit me. There was too much adrenaline going. The first thing I noticed was my nose. I was a little sore because he had stepped in my foot and we both fell, fortunately for him I broke his fall. Then when I got up and sat down on the steps waiting for police to arrive, some girl standing behind me yelled, "why are you bleeding through your shirt? I didn't even know she was talking to me. That's when I noticed it. It was really hot, and stingy. My friend lifted up my shirt and sure enough, he freaked and said "Oh my god dude, your hit!" The bullet went in and was lodged inside of me. They said if it was one more inch to the left, it would have hit my liver. They pulled it out with out a problem. Being shot didn't really hurt that bad, it was going to the hospital that hurted. Now all I have is the scar, the same place that I now keep a loaded S&W 9mm. Another time, I had some friends die in front of my face after being shot. I used to work as a front doorsman for a couple night clubs. If anyone remembers last year, well 13 months ago two Samoan bouncers that got shot at a night club in Tacoma? Yup, those were my bro's. Coward shot them in the back. They died breaking up a fight. One was in the Army, just celebrating his return from boot camp. And the other was a parent of 3. Both were very very good guys, very gentle guys for being 6'8 and 6'10. One was actually nick named the "gentle giant". The other time, well I wasn't actually there, but my baby brother was coming back from his prom. There was a fight at his school, and some joker drove up next to his car with him and his date, and it was a case of mistaken identity. Shot at his car and shot him square in the head with a sawed off shotgun. My baby bro took 3 bucks to the head, hospitilized for a couple of weeks, lost his hearing in his left ear, but he is alive and well today serving in the Navy on the USS Lincoln.
In none of these cases, were the suspects ever found or arrested. This is why I strongly stand behind proactively taking the role in your own self protection. There was another time when my apartment was broken into with myself sleeping unaware, but I'll save that for a later time.

QuarterBoreGunner
May 2, 2003, 02:53 PM
Flashpoint- the mutt sued the range where this occured and myself. I was sued for 'negligent discharge of a firearm resulting in injury'. Negligent my tush; I MEANT to shoot him. The range's insurance covered it; at first I said 'no way no how, he doesn't get dime one' but the attorney for the insurance company explained it like this: 'it's unlikely, but it's possible he could get a sympathetic judge, he could get a sympathetic jury and you could lose the business and your house, now if I can make this whole thing go away by settling out of court for $5000, and I didn't, then I wouldn't be doing my job.'

Ok, I can understand that view, but still, it really burned me up.

And then after it was settled, the insurance company cancelled our policy. Luckily we picked up another through the NRA.

keano44
May 2, 2003, 03:08 PM
I've read and re-read the post five times- Did Wilhelm just admit to being a rapist?

QuarterBoreGunner
May 2, 2003, 03:17 PM
I had to re-read it too, I think what he means is that he was in a gun fight, but forgot to bring a gun.


Wilhelm, help us out here.

pax
May 2, 2003, 03:28 PM
. Maybe someone could recommend a good book on the subject for him to follow up on.

1) The Ayoob Files (the book), by Massad Ayoob, has a bunch of case histories and true stories of gun usage. Good lessons in it.

2) The Best Defense, by Robert Waters. Subtitle is, "True Stories of Intended Victims Who Defended Themselves with a Firearm."

3) Guns Save Lives, by Robert Waters. More of the same.

pax

Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings so that you shall come easily by what others have labored hard for. -- Socrates

makdaddy03
May 2, 2003, 03:32 PM
I have been shot at 3 different times and had a gun pulled on me twice.:cuss: All of this was in my young and dumb days. Then I grew up and bought my own gun. I have had no incidents since.

El Tejon
May 2, 2003, 03:47 PM
QBG, I finally screwed the nerve up to read that. Despite the ghosts, I was very moved by it.

Thank you for what you did that night. You did the right thing and as others have said, many unknown others draw air because of your actions. You are the epitome of the basis for an armed citizenry.

Thank you for sharing. Your experience will help others.

Wilhelm
May 2, 2003, 04:15 PM
OK WHAT I POSTED MADE SENSE WHEN I DID IT RE-READING IT I CAN SEE HOW YOU TOOK THAT OUT OF CONTEXT!!!!!!!


No I am in no way shape or form a rapist and Beorn can back me up on this. I simply meant once a long time ago I was shot at and had no firearm with wich to defend myself so I ran as fast as I could. Sorry to mislead in that direction.



Wilhelm

QuarterBoreGunner
May 2, 2003, 04:48 PM
Wilhelm- I'm pretty sure that no one actually thought for a moment that you were admitting to being a sexual predator, let alone post it on the internet.


But my neck still hurts from doing the double-take!

QuarterBoreGunner
May 2, 2003, 05:11 PM
Thank you El Tejon; at the time I was just trying to stop the bad guy from shooting me or the people with me, but I did drive by the nightclub where Stevens was planning on his finale, the other day and got this weird little chill.

I don't mind talking about it, it's one of the ways I deal with it. I can understand others silence on the matter though, especially if the bad guy expired.

It’s an enormous thing to have to deal with and it took me a long time to come to grips with the fact that it was a good thing that I shot Stevens. From childhood on up were taught that it’s a bad thing to hurt others, but in this case it was a good thing. For along time I was almost ashamed of it, but then as the trial proceeded and the various facts came out I felt better and better about it.

Still, it’s life-altering experience- everyone on THR that carries a firearm for self-defense has to know that, yes, someday, you may actually have to use it. But the actual act of shooting another human being is a gigantic thing to deal with.

Do I wish he had died? During the seemingly endless trial there were points where I wished him dead. But in retrospect, I’m glad he lived. Making peace in my heart over the taking of another’s life… well I could do it (especially as he was trying to kill me) but I’m glad I don’t have to.

We all talk about ‘survival mindset’ and the need to ‘put down a goblin’, but when the moment is over and you start to fully realize what just happened… and then think about what could have happened.

Well damn.

OF
May 2, 2003, 06:07 PM
Well put, QBG.

Well done and well said.

- Gabe

Frohickey
May 2, 2003, 06:26 PM
Oddly enough, despite their dissapointment, not a single one of them went on a shooting rampage, or sent out violence inspiring telepathic waves to the people in the neighborhood.

That what you think.

Right now, they are plotting to get back at you for your insolence.

They are plotting to start rusting with the help of their buddies oxygen, and moisture. ;)

Frohickey
May 2, 2003, 06:39 PM
we had a member named ChrisMkIV whose wife had a short gunfight with a rapist who had not remembered to bring a gun of his own.

Thats the only kind of gunfight I have been in. Unfortunaltely I was the one who had forgot the gun.

Sounds to me that you should be charged with inappropriate 'quoting' of posts. :D

thaddeus
May 2, 2003, 08:59 PM
Bogie - I remember that Pawn Shop Broker. Good thing he was a gun nut with several guns around. I do not recall him moving past an AR, but I do recall that he had a Glock next to him that he could not reach because the sword-man had stabbed him and pinned him back in his chair. The Pawn Shop Broker could not lean forward to get his Glock that he had sitting next to him. (It should have been on his person). But, good thing is he had a BUG in his pocket, a.25 auto.
Point blank range, crazed sword-wielder versus .25 auto, the sword-wielder lost.

keano44
May 3, 2003, 08:52 AM
Whew! Thanks for clearing that up, Wilhelm. No, I didn't really believe that you were admitting to being a rapist. At least, I was hoping :D

QBG-Very interesting story, glad it came out the way it did. Wonder why stories like this seldom/never make the six o'clock news?

winwun
May 3, 2003, 09:33 AM
How about carrying 4 #8's around for 58 years as a result of raiding a watermelon patch ?

Once on a deer hunt in upper East Tennesse, we had rented a cabin from a local, who took the money we paid him and tied on a good one and came back and demanded more money. We told him to walk it off, and he pulled something out of his pocket and started shooting. Under the beds, in the fireplace, behind the kitchen stove, behind each other, there weren't enough places to hide. After it was over, someone commented that there were six of us and we all had guns and ammo. No one thought of it.

In the army, a guy had a long red welt on his back running from above his knee up his thigh, across one side of his butt, and then a bare spot for about 3 inches where his belt was and then picking up again angling across his back and tapering off to nothing at his shoulder. He said he was stealing corn from a neighbor's garden and the neighbor got him with a greased leather bootlace fired out of a 12 ga. He said the lace cut through his pants and shirt and embedded in his skin about a half inch. He said he didn't care much for corn anymore.

PATH
May 3, 2003, 10:23 AM
When I was a young foolish fellow I had a shotgun fired in my general direction by a farmer. Looking back I am sure he could have hit us if he cared to do so. Learned my lesson.

I have had guns put to my head twice. The scary part is not when it happens but afterwards thinking about it! Never fired at anyone in self defense and pray to God I never have to do so.

Wilhelm
May 3, 2003, 12:02 PM
Sounds to me that you should be charged with inappropriate 'quoting' of posts.


I plead guilty your honor.


Wilhelm

s&w 24
May 3, 2003, 04:00 PM
the only thing I have to say is you will shoot how you train and if you don't train you'll end up doing something out of a movie (point shooting at 25 yds,"gangsta" hold, ) or just end up droping your gun trying to get it on target. Also there are no magic bullets just because there $2.00 a round doesn't garantee anything You still have to put them on target and get penetration to the vitals.

Kharn
May 3, 2003, 04:53 PM
In the army, a guy had a long red welt on his back running from above his knee up his thigh, across one side of his butt, and then a bare spot for about 3 inches where his belt was and then picking up again angling across his back and tapering off to nothing at his shoulder. He said he was stealing corn from a neighbor's garden and the neighbor got him with a greased leather bootlace fired out of a 12 ga.

:what: Oucccchhhhhhhhhhhhh. Talk about innovative loading...

Kharn

LiquidTension
May 3, 2003, 10:40 PM
This has been posted several times, but not in this thread.

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=126319&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

sm
May 4, 2003, 04:26 AM
Around TFL and THR long enough to feel comfortable to admit "I've had to stop an immediate threat" . More than once. I won't go into details ( please respect this), there is a reason for my sig line.

grampster
May 5, 2003, 09:02 PM
As a leo during the 60's there was an civil disturbance in the city I worked that overflowed from the riots in Detroit.

Got in a fairly extended firefight with one or more idividuals who were in a house. They initially fired on my cruiser taking out glass.
I exited the car (in somewhat of a hurry) and crouched near the front tire trying to keep the engine block between me and the house where the shooting was coming from. Shots took out the headlight next to me and the cruiser took several hits. In the process I pumped about 10 rounds of 00 buck through the window that the shots were coming from. Backup arrived and 16 Leo's laid down enfillade fire on the 2nd story till a couple of pistols were were thrown out the window and one of the BG's surrendered. Others got away during the firefight.

In the same distrurbance while answering a looting call at a grocery store, a vehicle exited the parking lot with a BG sitting on the trunk to hold the lid down and began firing a pistol at me and my partners. Fire was returned with 12 ga, 00 Buck @ about 100 feet. BG falls off trunk, we begin to take small arms fire from a couple houses. We put cruiser between us and houses, reach in through the door and put into gear, lie on floor working gas and brakes with hands as 3 other officers hang on to the doors and doglegs of the cruiser and we leave the scene as we have no cover except the car, and that ain't enough.
Person arrives at local hospital an hour later with buckshot wounds from that neighborhood. He survives and recovers.
Uknown who shot him he was quite discreet. I think he said he fell on a box of shells and they discharged accidentaly...No investigation ensues.

Most of the rioters were local pimps, druggies, burglars and other ner-do-wells that thought they would have a little fun. After a couple days and nights of brouhaha, all previous idiots were either arrested, or otherwise incapacitated and things settled down back to normal. The sad thing is about 98% of the the people in the neighborhoods did not participate and were terrorized by the few. Many lost their homes and business or other personal property. Sad. 2/3 of the troublemakers were local hoodlums and 1/3 were regular kids, some of which got a huge surprise when they found out the disturbances such as they participated in were looked at rather severely and they got a life lesson that cost them time, or bodily injury or both.
Way of the world: Action = Reaction
Looked down the barrel of a shotgun once. Guy was somewhat drunk and fired a couple rounds into a bar and then wandered off. Call went out and I spotted the mope waltzing down the sidewalk a couple blocks from the bar with the shotgun over his shoulder. He turns up a driveway when he sees me. I drive past, stop, call for help, exit cruiser, grab Sam Colt (pathetic .38 wheelgun in those days) Shotgun locked in trunk. (that was great planning by management.) Slip around a hedge and run up to the corner of the house next to the driveway mope walked up. I yell "Hey you" and quickly flash my Colt around corner without exposing myself and then immedietly drop down to knees still behind the corner of the house. (If he's there and he should be because of a fence I observed, and he heard me, and he did, he will be pointing gun high where he saw my pistol and heard me)
I drop down so If he shoots it's over my head and I can drop him.
Well....he was there pointing the shotgun where I used to be. I yell drop it while lying on the ground and looking at him through my sights, hammer cocked and beginning to squeeze....He is sober enough and bright enough to see that he lost and he quickly turned away and threw the long gun over a fence.
He goes to jail, directly to jail, does not pass go and does not get $200.00. I get two more white hairs at age 23.

Prosecutor later lets him off the hook with 5 days served in a plea bargain for "Careless Use of Firearms". I ask why...and prosecutor says because I was wearing a police uniform and hollered at him to stop, I violated his constitutional rights because my uniform was "inherrently coercive" and I did not have the right to yell at him to stop while wearing that "inherrently coercive" uniform because I did not know for sure he was the mope who fired the gun in the bar 2 blocks away, even though he was wearing the described clothes and was carrying a gun. Go figure. Sigh.....It was the 60's and the prosecutor probably graduated from Berkley in the PRK.

Grampster

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