Mosin carbine stock options


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ArmedBear
July 3, 2006, 04:03 PM
I finally de-greased and shot my first Mosin carbine yesterday.

What a crude, clublike piece of crap! It shoots, though, and it's nice and simple. I still wonder why a bought the second one, though, after shooting the first one.

Has anyone put on a modern stock, either fiberglass or walnut?

Any feedback you can provide?

Is the recoil less harsh? How does it feel with a new stock? Would you buy the stock again, or just leave the gun as-is and shoot it now and then?

Thanks for any info!:)

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grimjaw
July 3, 2006, 04:58 PM
I've shot an M44 once that had a synthetic stock. The owner said he liked it alot. I prefer the wood versions. I didn't notice a difference in recoil.

jmm

Koobuh
July 3, 2006, 06:16 PM
There aren't as many stock options for mosins as there could be. The ones I know for sure about are the ATI stocks (plastic), and there is a company that makes wood sporter stocks and copies of military stocks out there (I lost the link). -EDIT : It is Boyds Gunstock Industries (www.boydsgunstocks.com)

When I picked up my M44 I had just heard about the 'scout' rifle concept, and thought it was pretty neat. So, I picked up the stuff to do it- M44 scout mount, a Bushnell Trophy red-dot scope, and an ATI stock and bipod.
When I got that ATI stock I thought there must have been a mistake. It was abominable. The action couldn't be fit down into its seating, and there was a huge bow in the foreend of the stock. So, I sent that stock back and waited for a new one.
The new one arrived, and lo and behold; had the same problems. Exasperated, I trimmed out the barrel channel so the barrel could be put in without being pushed to the side by the stock, and spent a couple days fitting the action into the seating.
The rifle itself is in pretty poor shape, with a sewer-pipe bore, and it has never shot well at all.
After a lot of frustration I took off the scout scope and cut the stock down to just in front of the chamber. Accuracy improved a little after doing this, and at this point I'm treating that rifle as an accuracy test-bed.

With the ATI stock, recoil is quite a bit more manageable for me. The pad helps, the geometry helps, and making it butt-heavy seems to have helped a bit somehow. Cutting down the stock assured that the barrel is free to whip around and change geometry as it heats up. The 'Monte-Carlo' style cheekrest is somewhat a hindrance using the iron sights, as it is intended to raise your head for use with a scope, so be aware of that.

I would say in your case; keep the original stock (or, if it's an M44, send it to me! :o ) and drop the action into an aftermarket stock if that's what you want to do. You will spend some money, but the results are often quite good in terms of lightening the rifle and improving fit for sport use.
At this point, after I finish bedding and doing a trigger job, if my M44 carbine is accurate enough to do 6MOA with a 2x scout scope, I will be preserving it as my SHTF/oh snap! coyotes! gun. It is light, comes up to the shoulder nicely, and packs a punch.

Kymasabe
July 3, 2006, 09:18 PM
I have a Boyds walnut stock that I've had on a few of my M44's and M38's. Has a recoil pad that's real nice and works well and the whole thing just fits (the shooter) better. Problem I have is that after having the stock on for a few months, I feel guilty about the rifle having lost it's military charachter and I go back to the old stock. Now, the only gun I might put it on is my Chinese T53 that someone cut the bayo lug off of...but the original stock is so unusually light...putting the Boyds on just makes the gun heavier. I just can't do it. So, the stock sits in the safe...bare naked, alone, in the dark.:(

DMK
July 4, 2006, 12:06 AM
What a crude, clublike piece of crap! It shoots, though, and it's nice and simple. Crude, clublike? Definately. A piece of crap? Certainly not. The Mosin is one heavy duty rifle. It's been there, done that, and got the blood stained t-shirt. It's just not nice and smooth or precision accurate like we modern Americans have come to appreciate.


Is the recoil less harsh? How does it feel with a new stock? Would you buy the stock again, or just leave the gun as-is and shoot it now and then?
I've left all my Mosins as is except that I mounted non-permanent Darrel's scout scopes on two of them, one rifle and one carbine.

I found this slip on recoil pad (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&rid=&indexId=cat20811&navAction=push&navCount=3&parentType=index&parentId=cat20811&id=0012757) tames the recoil pretty good. I like the one with Velcro since I can easily swap it from one rifle to another.

MyRoad
July 4, 2006, 12:23 AM
I put an ATI Monte Carlo stock onto one of my M44's. As stated, its not a great fit to the barrel - but it is comfortable to hold and shoot. I put a LimbSaver slip on recoil pad on, and that elavated it to being actually fun to shoot. My gun had already been modified, so since it was no longer historically intact I went ahead and cleaned it up a bit (removed the bayonet and front sight, added a "scout" scope). Makes a nice little short range (100 yard or less) large caliber rifle.

http://www.xlr8nrg.com/images2/m-n_scout2x.jpg

rangerruck
July 4, 2006, 12:33 AM
i def think ati is the way to go here. or go find a laminated stock, and sporterize it yourself.

ArmedBear
July 7, 2006, 03:03 PM
Thanks, all!

Two more questions:

1. What did you use for a scout scope?

2. MyRoad (and others if you have one) where did you get or how did you modify that bent bolt?

ArmedBear
July 7, 2006, 03:05 PM
And okay, you're right. It's not a piece of crap; it's just built for a different mission.

I like the durability, but I don't particulary care for the action feel or speed. I might try and see if judiciously-applied grease can help.

What do you guys lube it with?

Cosmoline
July 7, 2006, 03:17 PM
It's lubricated with the sweat and blood of the Red Army Man, protecting the Motherland from the fascist invaders!

Seriously, lube?? No lube. And stop complaining about the recoil. It's very mild. As far as the speed, the key is operating the bolt properly:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/cycle.jpg

i def think ati is the way to go here. or go find a laminated stock, and sporterize it yourself.

I def think you're wrong. Laminated M-44 stocks are far from common and laminated M-38 stocks are genuine collector's items.

If you're not strong enough to use the action, just GROW STRONGER!

ArmedBear
July 7, 2006, 03:21 PM
I'm thinking about this as a pig gun. I'd like more speed. I'm plenty strong enough, though I have to say I'm a bit uneasy about the kind of force I'm applying to the thing. The little voice in my head starts listing the things I've broken by impatiently forcing things, over my lifetime.:D

I don't own a lever action, and I have to stop buying guns for a while, while I catch up on getting the cosmoline off of them and my bank account back up. Hell, half the guns I own I've never even fired.:uhoh:

I'll have to practice that bolt technique; it doesn't seem like it will ever operate like my other guns. But it will surely survive being dropped pretty far onto rocks. Still, a bent bolt seems to offer a bit of an advantage for brush hunting. Maybe not.

Cosmoline
July 7, 2006, 03:23 PM
NO, a bent bolt will ruin it. The stubby bolt is there for a reason, you just have to stop trying to work it like your standard American hunting rifle. Use your arm. Smack it open and ram it closed, as shown. With practice you can do this very fast, and you're not going to hurt the action.

ArmedBear
July 7, 2006, 03:25 PM
you're not going to hurt the action

That's got to be my new mantra, I guess. Thanks. You just "fixed" the problem and it cost me nothing at all!:p

I'll have to make sure I can change gears when I pick up the Weatherby, though.:eek:

Carl N. Brown
July 7, 2006, 03:42 PM
The palm of the hand technique also works great
with the Carcano action, as well as the Mosin Nagant.

Been working mine that way for years.

grimjaw
July 7, 2006, 07:41 PM
I'm a bit uneasy about the kind of force I'm applying to the thing.

I accidentally reassembled a 91/30 minus the trigger pin. Since the trigger didn't have an axis to pivot on, it wouldn't lower the bolt stop, and thus I couldn't remove the bolt. I tried to break the bolt getting it out of the stock, by yanking back on it as hard as I could. Nothing I could do would make it budge. I ended up sliding a wedge into the guide groove and getting it out that way. No damage I could see outside of a few scratches, and the headspace didn't change noticeably. Gun still shoots well enough to hit gongs at 400 yards.

jmm

Cosmoline
July 7, 2006, 08:00 PM
The Mosin action is famous for the extreme amount of steel in the receiver. It's many times tougher than it technically needs to be. That's one reason they keep on kicking even after multiple world wars and abuse. I've seen Finn receivers that were obviously completely rusted over at some point, with deep pits all over. But it doesn't matter, they still keep going strong.

Any Cal.
July 8, 2006, 03:59 AM
The action is perfect when you work it like you are in a panic and adrenaline is pumping so hard everything is a gross motor movement. Just smooths right out!:D :D

goon
July 8, 2006, 04:50 AM
I have gotten stuck cases out of Mosins by holding the rifle parallel to a concrete shooting bench and smacking it down on said bench so that the bolt handle was the only part that contacted.
That got the bolt open.
Then I turned the rifle the other way and whacked it again.
That got the stuck casing out.
I then reloaded and went back to shooting.
Not real smooth but they are hell for toughness.
I doubt you could break it.

Cosmoline
July 8, 2006, 05:34 AM
A lot of the M-38's and 91/30's are forced matches. They stick because the USSR had apes running their arsenals. There's nothing inherently sticky about the action, though. Properly fitted it's as smooth as butter. Well, hard butter in December anyway.

armoredman
July 8, 2006, 11:34 AM
Stick bolt is also caused by comso in the small pits of the chamber,( as corrosive ammo was all these rifles fired during the war, and afterwards.), melting and sticking to the laquerd steel cases of the cheap surplus ammo. Put a 20ga brush in a rod, chuck in a drill, soak your chamber with your favorite heavy duty degreaser, and drill that puppy out! Mop out, and repeat. Then, take the cordless drill to the range, and repeat after firing a few rounds, and stick bolt should be gone.
As for recoil, I put a cheap $7 slip on pad from WalMart, and my M38 is just fine to shoot!

Mike_in_OC
July 9, 2006, 03:11 AM
Mosin is a shooter, but keep in mind it is about 60 years old.

Mauserguy
July 9, 2006, 03:37 AM
"What a crude, clublike piece of crap!"

Uh, Armed Bear, that clublike piece of cr*p stopped the Nazis and reversed the course or WWII. I think that she deserves a bit of respect. She is not a fine target rifle, she is designed, and tested, for real combat, though combat, bloody combat. Very few rifles manufactured today could stand the test of time, and hard fighting, like that M44.
Mauserguy

grimjaw
July 9, 2006, 03:40 AM
Mosin is a shooter, but keep in mind it is about 60 years old.

Some of them are over 100. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185113)

jmm

tyesai
July 9, 2006, 05:25 PM
Pimp it out like I did mine over the long 4th of July weekend.


Before
http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/91/picture1199km.jpg



After
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9080/picture2344sa.jpg

Malone LaVeigh
July 9, 2006, 10:06 PM
The first time I fired my M-38, it was sandbagged off the bench. I felt like I had been in a fight. Guess what? It's not a benchrest rifle. I find that, freehand, the recoil is not at all uncomfortable.

tyesai
July 9, 2006, 10:08 PM
I think my 91/30 is worse than my M44, it seems alot sharper than the short carbine. The M44 does have some more noise and fireball though.

ArmedBear
July 10, 2006, 02:45 PM
The M38 is fine standing up.

Sitting on the ground with supported elbows is almost as painful as benchrest, though.

I need to get a sling for it.

Cosmoline
July 10, 2006, 03:46 PM
You wimps! I ride my bike 15 miles to the range and fire the M-38 off my teeth! :D

MyRoad
July 10, 2006, 05:12 PM
Two more questions:

1. What did you use for a scout scope?

2. MyRoad (and others if you have one) where did you get or how did you modify that bent bolt?

Sorry, missed that question before.

1. I use a Burris 2-7x handgun scope as a "scout" scope. In my experience, it has the longest *range* of eye relief of any of the handgun scopes I could find to hold up, which give you the most flexibility in placement.

2. This Mosin came to me with the modified bolt. I bought it from a second-hand store, and the previous owner cut and welded this one on. He did a decent job.

The only real advantage - considering with a scout scope you don't need to cut the bolt - is that the gun fits in standard cases better without the bolt sticking out to the side. The one draw back is that a Mosin Nagant is fairly crude and stiff, and it feels like there is less leverage than the original, making fast rechambering a bit more awkward.

This little "project" has gotten out of control for me... I guess these things can snowball. I just had a trigger job done to mine. I only share this so that anyone else who is as nuts as I am and wants to throw money at a Mosin, knows it can be done and it makes a huge difference. The pull is ten times smoother, feels a bit shorter, and is down from 9lbs. to about 5lbs.

El Barto
July 10, 2006, 07:33 PM
One fine day I took my 91/30, M38 and M44 all out to the range to shoot them for the first time. OW! I had to shoot my SKS just to relieve the pain and I had a hugh bruise on my arm for a week afterward. Eventually, I was holding the 91/30 very loosely off my shoulder to allow my hands to take most of the kick. It doesn't help that I am shaped like a chicken and have no shoulders. I was holding the butt against my upper arm for comfort.

I did encounter the sticky bolt, and a slippery stock after things heated up. Cosmoline seeps into everything so when you think you got it all, you don't.

The wind was blowing something fierce, so I ended up shooting at the backstop hill because the targets were being blowed away. If that were an enemy bunker, I would have been doing alright.

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