price check norinco 1911


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proven
July 5, 2006, 02:11 PM
what's a fair price for a 'new in box' norinco 1911a1?? found one locally and am deciding whther to pick it up. don't really need one right now, but i understand these aren't easy to come by anymore. is this correct??

thanks

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Ala Dan
July 5, 2006, 02:40 PM
Not easy to come by is an under statement; just dam near impossible~!:uhoh:
They use to be available from between $325-350, but now, I'd guess
that $400 wouldn't be a bad price.

schmeky
July 5, 2006, 02:44 PM
I had one in blue many years ago, a great shooting reliable gun that held up very well.

Sold it, bought one in nickel, same experience as the blued one. I sold it, wish I had it back. Hard to find now.

poppy
July 5, 2006, 07:43 PM
I got my NIB Nork last Dec. for $360 OTD. I agree with Dan; $400 would be a good price.

Dobe
July 5, 2006, 07:45 PM
Bought one last year for $299. Don't think I can find another for that price.

Technosavant
July 5, 2006, 07:48 PM
Not easy to come by, but at the same time, you can find similar quality 1911A1 GI pattern models for around $400. While the Norincos are decent, the Rock Islands, SA GIs, and similar are also quite good.

Keep that in mind. Just because something labelled "Norinco" might be hard to find, you can still get basically the same thing for not much.

asknight
July 6, 2006, 11:30 AM
I think the RIA's compare favorably to the Norinco models. ClassicArms has them back in stock now for $319.95, up from their previous price of $289.95.

They're at http://www.classicarms.us

coltrane679
July 6, 2006, 11:45 AM
If you think an RIA is the same as a Nork, ask Wilson to work on one--good luck with that.

I paid $395 NIB about two years ago and had Don Williams put about some work into it. Sweet.

asknight
July 6, 2006, 03:50 PM
Personally, I would be too embarassed to ask Wilson to work on either RIA or a Nork.

If I'm going to spend time and money trying to polish a turd into a diamond, then I'm going to start with the best turd I can... That would be a Springfield Mil-Spec, for those purposes. Otherwise it makes more financial sense to buy what features you want in the first place. Many people agree with that assessment, hence Wilson, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Rock River, SA Custom Shop, Kimber, and others wouldn't be in business.

Don't take that bit of humor the wrong way, but I hope you see my point.

coltrane679
July 6, 2006, 04:08 PM
The steel in a Nork is of almost legendary quality--it is the foundation of many a great, highly tuned gun. The internals are suspect, but that is the stuff you replace anyway. If you would be embarrassed to ask Wilson to work on on a Nork, you need to do some more research. An RIA, on the other hand, they would throw back at you.

You really can't do better for the foundation of a custom gun than a Nork. An RIA is not even in the same universe.

coltrane679
July 6, 2006, 04:13 PM
FYI:

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/faq_handgun.htm

And I quote:

What pistols do you work on?

We will work on Springfield Armory, Colt, Norinco, Wilson Combat, Kimber, Strayer Tripp, and Strayer Voight pistols.

Pretty shabby company, huh?

asknight
July 6, 2006, 04:39 PM
I don't know if you understood my point or not, but I have personal inhibitions about supporting an active rival of the US. The only research I needed to conclude my decision was the discovery of the country of origin of the Norinco brand and product. I would choose one of the other six brands listed before I chose a Nork to have custom work done on. When $2000 is invested in a Nork, it's still a Nork IMO.

Nothing personal against you, but I felt I must state why I would be too embarassed to send one to Wilson or one of the other premier 1911 'smiths.

I may be backwards or archaic, but I tend to stick to my principles.

coltrane679
July 6, 2006, 04:43 PM
Well, your principles are your own, but no Norks have been brought into the US for 12 years, so all the money for them that would be going to Red China went LONG ago. From then on out, it's just among us.

You can't say the same thing every time you go to Walmart or Target, however, so maybe your principles would work better there.

schmeky
July 6, 2006, 04:53 PM
asknight,

The frame comment on the Norinco (being of legendary quality) is accurate. I guess I don't understand the "active rival" comment, please, don't take this offensively.

There is currently enourmous collaboration taking place between China and the US, medically, technically, and business wise. China recently announced that even though they have IBCM's with multiple nuclear warheads, they would never be classified as a "first strike" nation. I know several people that have traveled to China in the last few years and they indicated the Chinese were very friendly, many were able to speak some english, and they felt safe and comfortable.

I don't like them being a communist bloc nation, but they have embraced capitalism in big way. Isn't that the first step?

asknight
July 6, 2006, 04:53 PM
I do understand your point. I catch myself all the time looking at the tag of clothing in attempts to determine it's country of origin. Part of my purchasing decision of all things is where it was made. Granted, on some things it's impossible to have an American made product, but guns isn't one of them.

I just can't be as prideful of ownership of a Nork as I can a genuinely American designed and built 1911.

asknight
July 6, 2006, 04:56 PM
schmeky, no offense taken. I intended it to read as rivals in Capitalism. A rival who has retained Communism as their form of Govt. Additionally, a rival who actively and publicly supports our enemies (Iran, DPRK, etc) with the dollars earned from our economy. Lastly, a rival who has began an arms race against us.

joab
July 6, 2006, 05:37 PM
I'm going to start with the best turd I can... That would be a Springfield Mil-Spec, for those purposes. I just can't be as prideful of ownership of a Nork as I can a genuinely American designed and built 1911.Granted, on some things it's impossible to have an American made product, but guns isn't one of them.
A little more research may be in order, start here
The standard 1911 pistols are manufactured and assembled in Brazil. Company Co-Chairman Dennis Reese stated they have full-time personnel in Brazil, paid by Springfield, Inc., to supervise the assembly of these pistols. The final product is guaranteed to be as good as the ones they made in the USA. (http://www.highbeam.com/library/docFree.asp?DOCID=1G1:14465911)

asknight
July 6, 2006, 05:59 PM
I knew someone was going to call me out on that point.

Brazil isn't a rival to us like China.

Springfield, Inc is an American company who is succumbing like so many others to outsourcing.

Technically, the SA Mil-Spec is not "built" in Brazil either. It's frame is made there, but the "product" is finished and assembled here in the US. Thus the reason I still called the Mil-Spec a turd as the Nork and RIA.

Additionally, no American company has full time personnel in China working at Norinco with assembly oversight, much less who can also guarantee that the product is as good as one made in the US.

joab
July 6, 2006, 07:08 PM
Brazil isn't a rival to us like China.
It also ain't American and cannot produce a "genuinely American designed and built 1911"
no American company has full time personnel in China working at Norinco with assembly oversight, much less who can also guarantee that the product is as good as one made in the US.Wouldn't make much sense anyway, Norinco no longer imports 1911s to America.
Mr. Mao's minions have seen every penney that they will ever see from them so the supporting the rival thing also doesn't apply
Technically, the SA Mil-Spec is not "built" in Brazil either. It's frame is made there, but the "product" is finished and assembled here in the US. Thus the reason I still called the Mil-Spec a turd as the Nork and RIA.
As long as we're rationalizing
Wouldn't a Norinco that has been tuned by an American company be considered to have been finished in America and therefore as American as your brazillian made SA, as long as we're rationalizing.
Brazil isn't a rival to us like China.Depends on who you want to argue with
http://www.radicalmiddle.com/x_enemies.htm

joab
July 6, 2006, 07:22 PM
Almost forgot

$350 to $400 is a fair price to pay for a NIB Norinco.

I have two and have never replaced a single part in either of them and never had a single hiccup in either.

I actually have three but one is in pieces and I have never bothered to put it back together so I don't really know how it would shoot

asknight
July 6, 2006, 07:38 PM
Wouldn't a Norinco that has been tuned by an American company be considered to have been finished in America and therefore as American as your brazillian made SA, as long as we're rationalizing.

Sadly, no.

Springfield doesn't just tune the pistols. They finish machining the frame, fit it to a slide, assemble the complete product, test it, tune it, warranty it.

I was not rationalizing. At least not in the context in which you meant it, which was "To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rationalizing

I apologize for stepping on your toes, which I have clearly done. Your statement of ownership clearly shows your allegiance to both the Norinco brand and product. As I said, I have my own principles, which I am entitled to, and you have yours.

Good day!

ulflyer
July 6, 2006, 07:50 PM
I'd take all I could get NIB Norks for $350, even $400. Might depend on what part of the country you're in, but some are going for more than $400. I have several and have had no malfunctions of any type. Love em! :)

joab
July 6, 2006, 10:11 PM
Your statement of ownership clearly shows your allegiance to both the Norinco brand and product.A little off the mark. I also own a couple of Berettas that I don't particularly like worth a damn, I own quite a few Rugers whom I dispise and would never buy another new one even though they too have performed flawlessly and I don't particularly care whether you like any particular maker or not.
I just find your whole argument that SAs are if fact American to be a devised self-satisfying but incorrect reason
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rationalizing
By the way if you could see me you'd see that I'm smilin when I write this stuff, just havin fun

coltrane679
July 6, 2006, 11:01 PM
I think what happened in this thread is that somebody who didn't have the first clue what they were talking about (quote: "I think the RIA's compare favorably to the Norinco models") had their lack of knowledge exposed and, instead of just admitting it, have now come up with the most ridiculous ad hoc rationalizations for what was really a position just born of ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing everything out of the box--that's one big reason we come here, to learn. But if you say something stupid, it is usually better just to say"my bad--thanks for informing me" instead of digging a deeper hole with obviously inane arguments.

Anyone listening?

Walter
July 6, 2006, 11:47 PM
This is an interesting thread. I have two questions to throw out here.

First, if Springfield 1911's are built in Brazil, why do they have the
Croatian Shield stamped on the slide?

Secondly, why is the original 1911, Colt, left out of this discussion?
I think they build as good a pistol as anybody, or at least
they used to, so I would think they would be included in the
comparisons.

Just my wonderings,

Walter

joab
July 7, 2006, 12:21 AM
Secondly, why is the original 1911, Colt, left out of this discussion?Colt ain't what the original Colt used to be, but Norinco is about as close as you can get to the original today.

Blatantly paraphrased from the writings of 1911Tuner

Zen21Tao
July 7, 2006, 05:32 AM
I have a Norinco 1911 that I bought a couple years back for $350 and it is every bit as accurate and well made as any gun that I own (It is certainly as accurate as my Springfield "loaded" 1911). In fact many claim their stock Norinco is as accurate as their $2000+ target guns. Also, the Norinco may be Chinese made but it is solid forged steel and completely to spec with Colt 1911 which mean it will except just about any aftermarket 1911 part. This makes the Norinco a great platform for a custom built shooter.


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4383/norincoresized28qi.jpg

ROCKSHUND
July 7, 2006, 07:12 AM
I bought and later sold, a very lightly used, blued Norinco .45 some years ago, for $250. When I shot it, I liked it just fine.

But it's not my series 1 Kimber Custom Classic, though. -FNR.

asknight
July 7, 2006, 11:40 AM
coltrane679 said: I think what happened in this thread is that somebody who didn't have the first clue what they were talking about (quote: "I think the RIA's compare favorably to the Norinco models") had their lack of knowledge exposed and, instead of just admitting it, have now come up with the most ridiculous ad hoc rationalizations for what was really a position just born of ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing everything out of the box--that's one big reason we come here, to learn. But if you say something stupid, it is usually better just to say"my bad--thanks for informing me" instead of digging a deeper hole with obviously inane arguments.

Anyone listening?

When I said "compare", that is clearly an opinion of which every one of us is entitled to. IMO, the RIA and Norinco do compare. Your personal attacks are both unwarranted and unnecessary. My argument was neither inane or unthoughtful. I pointed out my principles and my thoughts, and you attacked them... and me personally. That is clearly an example of what we do not wish for here on this board. :banghead:

I didn't intend to appear as if I were digging a hole. Again, I was pointing out the principles which guide my purchasing decisions. If my principles offended you, then that's just the way it is. Since everyone seems to be on the defensive now that I've voiced my opinion, I will now bow out of this thread.

Good Day.

gopguy
July 7, 2006, 11:51 AM
First, if Springfield 1911's are built in Brazil, why do they have the
Croatian Shield stamped on the slide?


You are confusing the XD with the 1911. The XD is made in Croatia. The shield is the old emblem of the "Springfield Armory" which existed as a national armory in Springfield Mass. up until the 1960s when it was closed down.

I found this thread interesting. I have 1911s by Colt, Kimber, Springfield, DGFM and Norinco. The Norcs I have had for a while,7 or 8 years, but I did not buy them new so the Chi Coms made no money off me. One has had tritium sights added the other was extensively modified......great guns for the money. Around here in Ohio the will bring more than $400.

As to the subject of China being a rival.....kids they are a military rival and there will be a fight if they invade Taiwan. We are treaty bound to defend them. China is building up a huge number of amphibous landing craft......only one reason for that.. Despite all the biz we do with them it will not stop war. England was one of Germany's biggest trading partners prior to WWII. Germany and Imperial Russia were big trading partners prior to WWI. We did a lot of trade with Japan in the 1920s and 1930s.......don't think trade will keep us out of conflict.

We learn today that N.Korean missile was aimed at the Hawaiian Islands....had they hit the islands that would have meant war. You think China will sit by and watch us make war on N. Korea and not react....I suspect they will do the same thing they did in 1950....come streaming across the border to help that little pot bellied dog eating dictator....... Just something to think about .......

Essex County
July 7, 2006, 01:26 PM
I've got to chime in here.......last month I bought a Nork from a local shop with Hogue and origional grips for 275.00. It has barely noticable holster wear. I had been saving for a new RIA.....I'm happy...Essex

jaysouth
July 7, 2006, 06:17 PM
I once sent a Colt Series 70 to Wilson for a trigger job and a couple of upgrades. They sent it back to me saying that the pinholeds were drilled off center and they did not want to work on my pistol. I sold the gun last year to some fool for $900. He said it was one of the best examples of Colt Manufacturing. I smiled and took his money, and congratulated him on such a fine weapon.LOL

'A fool and his money are soon parted'.

I have three 'commie' norks. Finish leaves a lot to be desired. Fit and tolerances are impeccable.

I want someone to get an experienced smith or machinest to say that a nork and RIA are comparable. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The tolerances in machining and heat treatment in RIAs is abomonable. Not to say the Filipinos can't make a good gun, the the RIA is junk.

I dare you, call Wilson Combat, Dawson Precision, Actions by T or Ted Yost and ask them to add a few custom touches to your RIA.

coltrane679
July 8, 2006, 10:01 AM
jaysouth--

Why do you hate America and the Baby Jesus? How can you subsidize our would-be commie overlords?:evil:

RonJon
July 8, 2006, 10:51 AM
http://webpages.charter.net/ronjon/norinco%201911a1%20post2.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/ronjon/norinco%201911a1%20post3.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/ronjon/norinco%201911a1%20post4.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/ronjon/norinco%201911a1%20post1.jpg

Although the price tag says $249.99 I took it home after using a coupon for $10 off any purchase over $50 that I had, and also a charge card points reward for another $25 off - So my OTD price was $214.99 + Tx!!!

Not only that, but I got a 90 day warranty too - most of my collectible guns come as buyer beware only!

I also get 5 x the price in CC reward points, where each 2500 points gets another $25 gift certificate @ Gander Mtn.

I also got 2 insulated Gander logo car cups and a Gander shooting cap free with it.

I also have the box and manual and tools that came with these!:D

It's the most accurate and best shooting 1911 I own which includes: 1918 Colt, Argentine Sistema, Springfield WWII GI 1911A1, Series 70 Colt 1991A1.

Ron

coltrane679
July 8, 2006, 11:03 AM
OT: I wish to hell we had Gander Mountain down here. What a great store.

bosshoff
July 8, 2006, 12:54 PM
F.Y.I. Ted Yost laughed in my face when I asked him to install Heine Slant Pros, a C & S tactical ignition system, and a Kings bushing on my Norc. I ended up having the work done elsewhere. My Norc cost me $350.00. I have since molested it to about the tune of a grand.:eek: I would not do it over again. If I was going to do what I did, I would have started with a Springfield WWII Repro, or a Colt 70. Now that being said, I will grab up the next mint/stock Norc I see under $400.00.

jaysouth
July 8, 2006, 03:36 PM
coltrane,

I bought all of my norks well used. I don't think that any of my money wound
up in Mao's pocket.

You spent any money at Wal-Mart lately? Talk about subsidizing our couquerors.

Back on thread, I am disappointed that colt chose not to do my two Series 70s right, and am even more disappointed that they chose to not make it right when given the opportunity.

Norincos are still a good gun for the money, either as out-of-the-box GI clones or the base for something more special. I have had three of them smithed. Not one smith ever suggested replacing any internals. Rather a little polishing made them magic. The only legit beef I know of on a nork is that the barrels are either very good or very bad. I have been lucky, all mine have been very good.

joab
July 8, 2006, 07:32 PM
Why do you hate America and the Baby Jesus? How can you subsidize our would-be commie overlords?paraphrased rehash
Think of the irony of using these guns to drive the invading yellow horde back into the sea

RonJon
I know I should be pleased for you but instead I fell this embarrassing little twinge of jealousy driven hate for you right now

robertbank
July 8, 2006, 08:00 PM
Well we get NIB Norincos up here for $325Cdn, the Commanders and the 9MM caliber go for slightly more. I have three, one stock and the other two an A1 and Commander have had new sights installed, internals and in the case of the A1, a match barrel. In my hands no 1911 could outshoot the A1, period. Trigger breaks at an even 4#'s and the Novaks give a clear consise picture. Gun should be dehorned, bead blasted and blued but alas that will wait for another day.

For all the rantings about China since the Korean conflict, and there one could argue they were protecting their borders, China has not acted any differently than any other major power - all are in the arms business. There are no countries in the West that I am aware of that from time to time have not had a reason to blush. The sad part is we are all just people trying to get my best we can. The Chinese visitors to this province seem to be polite well educated middle class individuals with a propensity to take pictures of trees.:D

Nowadays if you didn't buy items Made in China you would walk around naked all day....barefoot.

Take Care

js2013
July 8, 2006, 08:48 PM
Norks are OK but like someone mentioned the barrel fit can be terrible (all the ones I've seen had terrible barrel fits and lousy trigger pulls). It may shoot well and function fine, but over time it will ruin both the barrel and the slide beyond repair. Also the slide stop holes are not always drilled in the proper location. That said, if you know what you're doing, can properly refit it with a new barrel, do a trigger job, and get it for a good price (like Ronjon or in Canada), they can be quite good.

sugarbritches
July 8, 2006, 10:03 PM
According to my 26th edition "blue book of gun values" a new in box or 100% goes for $275. I never heard of them, but there is a lot of things I don't know, thats why I read all these questions and answers. According to my book they are manufactured in China. Imported by Interstate Arms corp. exclusively.:banghead:

albanian
July 8, 2006, 10:22 PM
"The steel in a Nork is of almost legendary quality"

Hahahaha! :D I love it! Oh, yeah the legend of Chinese gun steel is well known. Most custom gun makers prefer to start with only the best, my gunsmith won't even touch a gun that is not a Norinco. He says that Colts and Kimbers are junk but the legendary Norinco stands above them all!:neener:

Get real. It is a decent gun for the money with steel that is not as bad as you would expect. That doesn't make it great. The price for these is up aroun $400-450 for every single one I have ever seen sell. FOr that kind of money, you can get a SS SA 1911a-1. Are you telling me that the Norinco is a flat out better made gun than the SA? I don't think so. It WAS a good gun for the money when they were $299 and less. Now that the price is about $400, what is the point? I will say that they are better than the RIA even though that is not a bad gun. The RIA is a $300 gun and for that price it is okay. Still, you would be better off with a $450 SA.

joab
July 9, 2006, 12:43 AM
The steel in a Nork is of almost legendary qualityWell it is pretty much universally accepted that the steel used in Norinco 1911s is superior to most if not all on the market

Gewehr98
July 9, 2006, 12:48 AM
Just finished reading your (as-edited by moderator) post about $100 Garands at Big 5 Sporting Goods. I bought $99 M1896 Swedish Mausers there, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility. But way to berate everybody else on an internet forum, eh? Nice touch!

So just how much metallurgical knowledge do you have? As for Norinco 1911's, I bought 4 of 'em back in the early 1990s when both Colt and Springfield were having bad QC problems, at the urging of a respected 1911smith. Even in my discussions with the late Armand Swenson he thought they were a good idea for a 1911. That's right, the Norinco grade of ordnance steel, while a bit rough on the internal machining, was still better than the Series 80 Colts and the Brazilian frames Springfield Inc. was kicking out the door. As I entered IPSC competition later, I found many customized Norinco guns out there competing, and I distinctly remember custom smiths like Ed Brown preferring to work with the Norks.

I own Caspians, Springfields, Colts, and Norks. The customized IPSC Norks just keep ticking...

loloy
November 21, 2007, 09:05 PM
where did everybody go? running out of opinions/opposition?

schmeky
November 21, 2007, 10:40 PM
I have 6 1911's, Colt, Kimber, Norinco, and a Rock Island Armory. My Norinco is one of my favorite 1911's. It has run like a clock and is more accurate than I ever thought it would be.

Anyone that be-littles a Norinco has probably never owned one.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/schmeky/HPIM0371.jpg

Baba Louie
November 22, 2007, 05:00 AM
schmeky,
Did you clean that little china doll up or did it come that way from someone else's work? That's a fine looking little "Model of 1911A1". Besides the obvious external cosmetics, any internals reworked as well? (and the obligatory) Sure it's pretty, but how well does it shoot? :D

Is that a recent purchase or a photo of your old (blue) one?

I see on GunBroker that most are still hovering around the $400 mark for opening bids, some w/ add-ons, one stock, w/ one having a Buy Now price of $579 (lots of doo-dads added).

Norks seem to have a cult like following that some seem to love, others love to hate, others just shoot a lot. Got to love (or hate) the Clintonian politics behind the ban keeping the supply here in the US down to a fixed number. Always makes for interesting economic conversation on a gun board.

As photos show, they do clean up nice for the price.

Moonclip
November 22, 2007, 05:13 AM
I saw a nickel version in a shop today for $500. I want one, but not at that price. I plan on leaving mine stock, I just like the irony of owning a PRC 1911.

vanfunk
November 22, 2007, 06:26 AM
where did everybody go? running out of opinions/opposition?

Well, this thread is a year and a half old:eek:. Given the attention span of the average internet commando (myself included), we're talking ancient history here.

vanfunk

schmeky
November 22, 2007, 10:09 AM
Bab Louie,

I like the "China Doll" analogy. I bought this one for $350.00 about a year and half ago. Shot it a lot to check for function, then bought the straight checkered mainspring housing and Coco-bolo grips off E-bay.

I did a home trigger job on it that turned out really well, then had it blued at Fords in Florida. I have about $600.00 total in it. It shoots so accurately and reliably out of the box, I left it alone, original springs, extractor, etc., it even shoots reliably with cheap mags.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/schmeky/HPIM0376.jpg

combatantr2
November 23, 2007, 04:25 AM
Those who dislike the NORINCO simply could not stand the fact that its made in China.

Or others would not simply pay top dollar if the price is close to SA or other known U.S. brand. But guess what I would neither pay for a hi-priced 1911 if I can get a reliable NORINCO 1911 for a much lower price.

Lafeswede
November 23, 2007, 06:56 AM
Hello board,
Just a few observations from my personal experience of a Nork. I bought it mail order NIB for the then equivalent of abt. USD 400. Last time I bought a gun w/o checking it out first. Rugged, soso finish, really sick trigger pull and shot all over the place. Barrel fit was very bad front and back. A friend bought one from same series a week after and his was accurate with good trigger pull.
After extensive fitting of barrel lock and bushing (including welding), new springs and various internal parts, fitting a new adj. sight and cocobolo panels, it now is an excellent shooter while not really a looker. All in all, more spent on retrofit than original price tag.
So, they can be very worth your money, or a real disappointment.

Sail safe
Lafeswede

combatantr2
November 23, 2007, 08:17 AM
Dissatisfaction on the norinco are mainly on cosmetic, looks issues. Trigger pull - they do suck. Finish is below par, rough machining, some edges cuts your skin. But as far as function and reliability is concerned their great.

As for me im more concerned in function and reliability.

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