Need help with FAL problem


PDA






Mr Kablammo
July 5, 2006, 07:32 PM
To celebrate July 4th I took my CIA or CAI FN/FAL to the range with some surplus ammo. After about 30 rounds it seems that the bolt has jammed into the barrel. The bolt WILL NOT BUDGE. I am not sure if the round in the barrell is fired or unfired. I took the receiver off at the hinge and the dust cover. The 'bolt shroud' is not all the forward and the extracter is exposed for an inch or half inch.

What can be done to safely get the thing unstuck?

If you enjoyed reading about "Need help with FAL problem" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
goon
July 5, 2006, 09:17 PM
Have you tried pulling back on the charging handle while bumping the butt against the ground?
Sounds silly but it works and it is both my FAL manuals.

ShootAndHunt
July 5, 2006, 10:53 PM
remember he might have a live round in the chamber. If so, it is very dangerous to do so, the gun may fire out of battery.

I suggest to have a qualified gun smith to handle this if you are not sure whether the last round fired or not.

Nightcrawler
July 5, 2006, 10:56 PM
It may be a failure to extract. If you have your gas system tuned for your current ammo, and then get an underpowered round, it won't extract properly. It can be real sticky, too.

I aleviated this problem by placing the rifle's stock on the ground, muzzle up and angled well away from me. Then I stomped on the charging handle.

Now, if you can actually crack the rifle open, that means the bolt's all the way forward, or very nearly so. (It's not a para is it?)

If you're really unsure, though, go ahead and take it to a gunsmith who knows FALs, or is at least familliar with autoloading rifles.

kfranz
July 6, 2006, 12:03 AM
Then I stomped on the charging handle

You just made Dieudonne Saive roll over in his grave. DO NOT stomp the handle, do the pogo as suggested by goon. It works, and it doesn't break stuff that isn't supposed to be broken.

Bwana John
July 6, 2006, 03:01 AM
The PoGo is intergral part of the "Manual of Arms" for the FAL.

Stupid adjustable gas system:barf:

Seven High
July 6, 2006, 07:48 AM
Mr. Kablammo: After you get the round out of the chamber of your weapon, I suggest that you obtain a M14 chamber cleaning brush. It has a ratchet that allows thorough cleaning of the chamber. It works very well.

Derby FALs
July 6, 2006, 08:32 AM
Have you tried pulling back on the charging handle while bumping the butt against the ground?
Sounds silly but it works and it is both my FAL manuals.

This is the way to do it. Let inertia and gravity work the magic. Keep it pointed up and your body parts out of the line of fire.

Nightcrawler
July 6, 2006, 12:02 PM
So....

Banging the buttstock on the ground is better for the rifle than putting more pressure on the charging handle?

They are correct, though, to get the bolt to go back all the way forward, the buttstock on the ground pound will usually do it. Problem is, when I did this, I still couldn't get the bolt to retract and eject the case.

"Stomped" may be a bit of an exageration, I just needed more leverage. Nothing broke. Just set my foot on the charging handle and pushed down. Case ejected.

I saw a guy shear locking lugs off of an M16 bolt doing the "banging the stock on the ground" thing. Obviously, though, locking lugs aren't a problem on the FAL.

My solution to this issue was to leave my gas system set on "3". A lot of guys like it on 5.5 or so, just barely giving it enough pressure to cycle the given load. Reduces recoil, but this problem crops up then if you have a round that's generates less pressure than the rest.

The first time it happened, I was unable to pull the charging handle back with my hand. The second time, it was sticky, but I was able to retract the bolt by hand. After that, the gas system's been on "3". Problem hasn't come up since.

Derby FALs
July 6, 2006, 12:12 PM
Charging handles have sheared using your method. You don't have to bang the butt pad. It doesn't take that much pressure to ease the bolt back. It is already off the locking shoulder.

kfranz
July 6, 2006, 12:12 PM
Banging the buttstock on the ground is better for the rifle than putting more pressure on the charging handle?

Yes

Derby FALs
July 6, 2006, 12:21 PM
We sure see a lot of charging handles for sale, minus the stop lug. :neener:

goon
July 6, 2006, 01:45 PM
When I do it I don't actually bang the stock on the ground. You just grab the charging handle and keep pulling back on it while you bump the butt on the ground or shooting bench.
I would prefer to not use my feet on a FAL. On a Mosin I could understand it though.
;)

Something else I have seen work if he still has a case in the gun and it isn't quite in battery is this. You can take a wide flat screwdriver, wrap it with electrical tape, place it in the gap between the bolt and the back of the barrel and carefully (CAREFULLY) twist the handle. It will often give just enough of leverage to break things loose. I did this a couple weeks ago to help a shooting buddy get his 9mm unjammed.

Jordan
July 6, 2006, 02:29 PM
I too have read in FAL manuals of the "foot stomp" method. Whether you like it or not, or choose to do it to your rifle or not, is up to you. But it IS a prescribed solution.

I've had to do it to my DSA.. frequently as a tight, sticky chamber broke in. My gas setting played a part in this OR when I tried turn to the "grenade" setting.. would do it EVERY time on that setting.

Mr Kablammo
July 6, 2006, 07:33 PM
Thank you for all the replies, even if some were intended to amuse each other ;) I got a wooden dowl from the hardware store and marked it off in inches and poked it down the barrel. The depth was enough that I was satisfied that the bullet had been fired. After that I let the barrel sit under an air conditioning vent and turned down the AC. The next step would have been to place in a bag in the freezer. Fortunately cooling off indoors seemed to be enough as a few taps with a hammer and wooden block dislodged the bolt.

I tried manhandling the charging handle at the range and slightly bent it. Sigh. So, I will try cleaning the chamber real good and trying a higher grade of milsurp ammo. The gas setting was '6' as it was being 'dialed in'.

For future reference, I will do a 'fired' and 'unfired' set of marking lines on the dowl and take it to the range as standard equipment. No kicking bolt handle.

Thanks again, shoot straight.

kfranz
July 6, 2006, 10:21 PM
I tried manhandling the charging handle at the range and slightly bent it

That's the reason for the pogo rather than kicking the CH.

Jordan, I'm curious as to which manual you saw the foot stomp in.

Nightcrawler
July 7, 2006, 04:25 AM
What I'm trying to say is, in MY case, that one time, the pogo did not work. Bumping the stock on the deck got the bolt to go back forward, so I could crack the rifle open, but it did not allow me to retract the bolt. Crappy out of spec round maybe? Who knows. It was SA stuff. Never had the problem with Port, but you never see Port anymore.

Dionne can roll in his grave all he wants, I got my rifle back up and running. A field-expedient solution, and I"ve only needed to do it once. I suppose I could've shipped my rifle off to a gunsmith, but I figured a new charging handle was less expensive than that, had it come to that (it didn't). In any case, I do have a spare. That doesn't mean you want to do that often, though. Not anymore than you'd want to slam your car door every time. As has been shown, it can damage the charging handle.

A little bit of common sense is required. I didn't slam my foot down with full weight on it, any more than, using the pogo method, should you be slamming the stock on the ground with all of your might. :scrutiny:

Besides, I"m of the opinion that a FAL is every bit as tough as a Mosin and not half as ugly. So nyah. :neener:

ROCKSHUND
July 7, 2006, 08:03 AM
The FAL stomp is well known among the (former) military users. -FNR.

Thin Black Line
July 7, 2006, 09:02 AM
Charging handles have sheared using your method.

+1.

A major chamber cleaning has already been mentioned, but another form
of prevention is to inspect the brass on every cartridge before you load
your mags and shoot the rounds. Make sure they are not damaged (cracked
or deformed in some way) or corroded.

MisterPX
July 7, 2006, 11:04 AM
Sounds like the brass didn't eject and got rechambered. Don't ask how I know ;) . I always use the Forcible Extration method, grab handle, slam rifle buttstock into ground.

I saw a guy shear locking lugs off of an M16 bolt doing the "banging the stock on the ground" thing.

If the lugs were broken, they probably caused the situation, as a FE will NOT break bolt lugs. Hell, if all the lugs sheared off while in battery, you couldn't get the bolt back without breaking down the rifle.

Norton
July 7, 2006, 11:21 AM
I've had this happpen a couple of times. I tried just yanking it and the first time it opened the bolt.

The second time was no dice. Someone at the range showed me what he does: Use the side of the shooting bench with the barrel still facing down range. It took two light taps and the bolt opened right up.

Bwana John
July 7, 2006, 11:33 AM
Foot-Stomping,:confused: Bench-Bashing,:uhoh: Prying with screwdrivers:what:

Most folks with a FAL will run into a failure to eject, and rechambering of expanded brass because of insuffcent gas.

Learn the Pogo.:banghead:
Let inertia and gravity work the magic
Yep.

goon
July 7, 2006, 02:03 PM
I actually used the Kung-Fu-screwdriver-pry with a Walther P99. It worked though and it was safe.
Guess it goes along with the foot stomp now that you think about it.
I have also resorted to getting the bolt on a Mosin Nagant open by holding the rifle and sort of swinging it so the bolt handle hit a concrete reloading bench.

I suppose that it all comes down to the proper application of force.
Luckily, the Pogo is proper more often than the other methods.

Mr Kablammo
July 8, 2006, 01:13 AM
I am agog. Ya'll should be marshalled together in a 'Motley Crew' FAL round up and shoot off. Boom boxes amplified to blast 'Minor Threat' and 'Black Flag' and 'Gang Green' at maximum volume will provide the appropriate background ambience for kicking, bashing, and whacking your FAL as nuns faint, virgins shriek, and strong men weep. Sigh.

goon
July 8, 2006, 02:41 AM
Mr. Kablammo - let me be the first to say "Hey buddy, you asked for it!"

LiquidTension
July 8, 2006, 02:53 AM
When I had a FTE with my STG, I used the "lean on the rifle with the charging handle on a 4x4 post" technique. Worked perfectly, no damage to charging handle.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need help with FAL problem" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!