AO/Kahr M1 Carbine Report


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Blade37db
July 7, 2006, 03:42 PM
I just wanted to share my experiences with my new AO M1 Carbine.

My first time out (about 2 months ago) I ran 50 rounds of Magtech and 50 rounds of Wolf. I had about 8 "fail to feeds". 4 with the Magetech and 4 with the Wolf ammo. I was using USGI used mags that I had bought on CheaperThanDirt.com. I chalked it up to the gun being new.

Next time out I brought 100 rounds of Wolf (I had bought 5 boxes from MidwayUSA.com). It was a disaster. I must've had about 25 misfeeds. I was starting to worry about my purchase. But since I work in a technical field and often do troubleshooting, I knew I couldn't panic yet becuase there was 2 things I hadn't done: 1) try new magazine and 2) try different ammo.

Went out today with a box of Remington FMJ, a box of Wolf and 5 new 15 round USGI magazines (they were in the wrapper) that I bought on ebay. The 50 rounds of Remington worked flawlessly. I even bought another box of 50 at the range and that also went flawlessly. I then loaded up the Wolf and that's when the trouble began. Misfeeds and this time 2 misfires. That was it with the Wolf ammo. I bought another box of Remington and another 50 flawless rounds went through.

Here's what I've learned:
1) Either my AO M1 Carbine hates Wolf ammo or the ammo sucks. I have already talked to MidwayUSA and they said I can return the 2 unused boxes for full credit or exchange.
2) I still need to run some Remington FMJ thru the original used magazines that I purchased to see how they behave.

Needless to say, I'm feeling a lot better about my purchase, even though I found out the rear flip site was installed backwards.

I hope this helps anyone who is considering buying one of the guns. I also found this report on theboxotruth.com that seems to indicate my problems might not just involve AO M1 Carbines:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu19.htm

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MrAcheson
July 7, 2006, 04:00 PM
I'm betting the ammo sucks. I have a box of wolf at home waiting to go through my AO/M1. I haven't shot it yet because I have this sinking suspicion that my M1 will hate it. But it was cheap...

LAR-15
July 7, 2006, 04:06 PM
Wolf ammo is hit or miss.

Dr.Rob
July 7, 2006, 04:47 PM
With all the problems reported about Wolf ammo you think there would be a recall. Or a boycott. or something. I'm shocked Midway will take it back at all.

It's really never a good idea to buy and expensive rifle and 'to see how it shoots' by feeding it the cheapest ammunition available.

Glad to hear the rifle is OK. What kind of groups are you shooting at 50 and 100 yards?

Mannlicher
July 7, 2006, 05:39 PM
from Box of Truth;
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu19.htm

They don't like the .30 cal Wolf ammo either.

I have had exellent results with Georgia Arms .30 cal ammo though. I shoot several Inland, and a Rock Ola Carbine, with no problems.

Blade37db
July 7, 2006, 06:10 PM
Dr. Rob:
Unfortunately, I don't think it would be fair for me to give an accuracy assesment for 3 reasons: 1) It's my first rifle 2) I've been shooting at a distance of 50 yards without glasses (I have a pair for distance) and 3) I'm a lefty who just realized I'm right eye dominant and have just started shooting righty.

I can say this: I was shooting at one of those silhouette targets from a rest at 50 yards and was able to keep about 90% of my shots inside the 7 ring.

MJ
July 7, 2006, 08:46 PM
When I was kid I bought boxes of these carbines for $25 ea. for M2's. A close friend asked me twenty years ago why I did not have any in my collection and my reply was that I was spoiled and could not pay the $299 price of that time. What do they say about hind sight?

When I was in school I was tought the shoer stroke gas system was particular about the presure curve and primers. I was also told it was the only ammo in WW2 to never see corrosive primers because of the small and tight gas piston. As an aside I never saw a failure to fire. It was always a jamb caused by the extractor having a problem.Then it was a plain pain in arse to dissasemble and fix.

Now today I see I should have had one just because. Maybe an AO would fill a spot on the wall. My issue was with knock down energy which was sad at best but from a moral stand point the M2 was a deal and I gave one to every NCO in my company. For $45, I'm not dummy here am I by gosh. $20 proffet in 1967 money was still a good deal. You could also strip the stock with TSP and dye it black and get $100 down on the coast.

Please post any other insights and range days.

Cheers
*MJ*


MJ

Blade37db
July 7, 2006, 09:38 PM
MJ,
The new AO was $600. I live in CT and I haven't seen a USGI that is in decent shape near that amount.

Dave Markowitz
July 7, 2006, 10:34 PM
Wolf runs ok in some M1 Carbines. It works just fine in my 1943 vintage Underwood. The only way to be sure is to buy a couple of boxes and try it out. If it works in your gun, great, you've got cheap plinking ammo. If not, then you're not out too much money.

Steel cases don't obturate as well as brass, so the chamber may get dirtier. Make sure you clean it well afterwards, before shooting any brass cased ammo. Failure to do so may cause malfs. I've seen this when going from Wolf to milsurp RA52 Ball in my Underwood M1.

IME, Magtech .30 Carbine is loaded lighter than American ammo. In one 50-round box I had a few stovepipes. Surprisingly, when I shot up the second box I'd bought it ran fine.

If Wolf doesn't run in your Carbine, try Remington, Winchester, or Federal. IME, the Remington JSP runs well in my Underwood and my Rock-Ola. If you run across any US milsurp .30 Carbine at a funshow grab it if the price isn't too bad.

Georgia Arms Canned Heat has a good reputation on THR, but I haven't tried any myself. I've read mixed reviews of Sellier & Bellot .30 Carbine. One online source reported getting some on which the cases were too long, causing problems.

There was some French milsurp .30 Carbine imported in the past. This stuff is corrosively primed. In most other guns this wouldn't bother me but the M1 Carbine's gas system is not designed to be taken apart for routine maintenance. AAMOF, the gas piston nut is supposed to be staked in place. I would therefore avoid the French .30 carbine.

bblumen
July 8, 2006, 02:43 PM
I have also had problems with Magtech ammo in my AO carbine. Mine were failure to fire...chamber round, pull trigger, no boom. Primer strikes on rounds but would not ignite.

I have had excellent results with Federal AE and Remington UMC.

MJ
July 8, 2006, 03:18 PM
I will put it on my list.

Cheers
MJ
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/9d442ec0.jpg

MrAcheson
July 9, 2006, 08:33 PM
Finally shot through the boxes of wolf .30 carbine I had in my safe. No failures of any sort in my AO/M1 but I share most of the box o'truth's observations.

It ejected very weakly. The wolf cases were consistently dropping on the bench right next to my right elbow. It was annoying. If they are loaded lighter that would explain a lot because I was having a hell of time getting the rifle to zero with elevation. I thought I had it when I put 10 rounds of remington I had left over from my last range visit, then I switched to the wolfs and poi changed. I thought I was just shooting really poorly, but maybe it was the ammo.

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