1858 cylinder pin scratch


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old hunter
July 11, 2006, 09:42 PM
First I'd like to say what a great forum this is, I recently bought a new 1858 remington pietta 44 from traditions all steel model. Went to the range and shot about 30 round balls - 454 - 30 grains fff goex -wonderwad between powder and ball, shot from a bench 20 yards and could not stop grinning :) ,in each of my groups just about every hole was touching. When I got home and started cleaning i noticed a pretty good scratch on the cylinder pin near the front exactly where the front of the cylinder would be touching the pin when spinninig, has anyone ever noticed this on their remmie and should i be worried?

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Manyirons
July 11, 2006, 10:04 PM
Is it actual gougin, can ya feel it like a groove when ya pulls a fingernail cross it?

old hunter
July 11, 2006, 10:16 PM
Yes you can feel it with your finger nail kinda like a gouge.

AmbulanceDriver
July 11, 2006, 10:29 PM
Hunter, I'd check for a burr on the inside of opening for the cylinder pin. That or a piece of debris stuck in there (hard debris, grain of sand type of debris). ManyIrons I suspect may have some more specific advice, seeing as I just purchased my first 1858 as well.

old hunter
July 11, 2006, 10:40 PM
The hole in the cylinder seems to be normal no burrs around the entrance, could have been some hard debris caused it, any way just bothers me because its there, I don't think it will cause any problems I'll just watch it.

dwave
July 12, 2006, 12:28 AM
I own two 1858s and both of them have a small gouge in them, it is nothing to worry about, I believe that they are there from the factory. Here is a picture of both pins. The pin on the left is from a ASM 1858 made 15 years ago, and the pin on the right is from a pietta made this year. Both have that groove in them. Sorry if the picture didn't turn out well, but you can see the marks.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=42094&stc=1&d=1152674906

AmbulanceDriver
July 12, 2006, 01:06 AM
Aight. now when i get home from work tomorrow morning i'm gonna have to look at the cylinder pin on mine too.....

Wwalstrom
July 12, 2006, 08:29 AM
I believe that, when new, the gouge does not exist ... flame cutting from shooting makes the gouge. Both of my 1858's have this "feature", and did not originally come that way. I shouldn't get any worse, either.

dwave
July 12, 2006, 09:53 AM
Here is my thought on it. The pin on the left is 15 years old, and I have fired the crap out of that pistol and the groove is very shallow. The pin on the right was made this year and has only had 200 shots on it, yet it is much deeper than the older one.

Manyirons
July 12, 2006, 10:05 AM
Weird! I gots my six remmies right here, aint a one of em gots a groove on tha cylinder pin.

An like DWAVE, theys had tha CRAP shot outta them!

edggy
July 12, 2006, 12:07 PM
old hunter, Like some of the members advise. It probably won't effect the shooting ability of the revolver. But like myself knowing of any flaw will work
on my mind until its remedy. I would start with the manufacture.. I myself don't think the revolver should have a gouge. Good Luck

dwave
July 12, 2006, 12:21 PM
Even if it was not graved in from the factory it is not a defect. More than likely if not from the factory it is from fire gouging. Here is a picture of my Pietta 51 and it has a gouge on it from shooting it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=42100&stc=1&d=1152717641

EDIT: I talked with a friend of mine, he got a pietta 58 a week after I ordered my new one and his had a groove too. I doubt that 4 pistols, one from 15 years ago no less, all with grooves would be considered a factory defect. Hey Chip (Manyirons) what brand are you 58s? Could be a Pietta thing.

Duncaninfrance
July 12, 2006, 03:25 PM
My Pietta 1858 has one too, I just thought it was from wear and tear.
Duncan

Manyirons
July 12, 2006, 03:31 PM
Jus pulled cylinders from alla mine an looked REAL close, theys Peties AN Ubies an THEY AINT NO GROOVE! I AINT GROOVIN man! :(

Theys ALL STAINLESS though, fixed sight an target models, mebbe a blued gun thing? Haveta wait fer tha MANN an ask him, he's got some bluies fer testin, ifin its a FIRIN thing, HIS'LL have em!

sundance44s
July 12, 2006, 03:31 PM
All 4 of my 58 Piettas had a grove there too .. never noticed it when they were new but in latter years seen it .Always figured it was why they run so smooth well worn .

AmbulanceDriver
July 12, 2006, 03:41 PM
Well, took a look at my Uberti 58, no groove. And it's blued. So it could either be a Pietta and older Uberti thing, or it's flame cutting. Or an as yet undetermined third possibility. :)

dwave
July 12, 2006, 04:06 PM
With so many guns having them, it can't be a factory defect. Seems like the blued Piettas have them. I don't believe that it is anything to worry about at all. There are two explanations I believe: 1. Cut at the factory by Pietta. 2. Flame cut from shooting. Either way I don't believe that it is anything to worry about and definally nothing to send it back over for sure.

Manyirons
July 12, 2006, 04:19 PM
Yup! Aint as though theys halfway through or anythin.

old hunter
July 12, 2006, 08:39 PM
Thanks for everbody's response , I feel much better about the gouge in the pin , after taking a closer look its very possible that flame cutting was the culprit. I still can't believe how accurate it is, I was shooting it better than my 357 ruger blackhawk.

Steve499
July 12, 2006, 08:53 PM
I noticed the cutting in my Pietta's cylinder pin some time back also. I thought it was gas cutting and haven't noticed it becoming any worse over time.

Steve

The Sicilian
July 13, 2006, 01:50 AM
Mine's an Uberti and it has the groove in it also, mine was made in 2003. It's definitely from firing it, as mine has deepened from use. And Hunter...My 1858 is more accurate than my Ruger BlackHawk too! :what: Pretty amazing revolvers, these old things are! I"m going to try out some conicals that I made with my Lee mold in the next few days. I tried them already in the 1858 and they worked good but are a little too thick for comfortable seating, takes too much muscle to seat the damn things! They were made for the Ruger Old Army and fit into the chambers with ease. I hope they fire as well as they fit! I also made up a few hundred .457 round balls for the 1858 that I'm gonna try also. Since I've moved the front sight and filed it down my 1858 is shooting great!!!

Sicilian.

Old Dragoon
July 14, 2006, 04:22 PM
I believe that every maker of '58's the cylinder pins will grove from firing. All my Pietta, Uberti and Euroarms/Armi San Paolo's have the gas groove after firing some. mine are all blue or started life that way. Colts would do it to if they didn't have the gas check bushing in front of the cylinder.

The Euroarms and the Armi San Paolo's (OMA frame) don't have as much of a groove as there isn't a scoop cut in the frame(NMA frame) to show the bbl threads and that may deflect the gas a different way.

I polish the bejeebers out of the pins anyway and none of the gas grooves have affected cylinder, and may help limit the binding cause it's one more place to catch lube. Some cut grooves in their pins so that they can jam more lube between the cylinder hole and the pin.

sundance44s
July 14, 2006, 04:38 PM
Thats true OD .. i figure the grove is in the right spot to catch some of the lube .. so it might explain the Remmies getting better with age .

The Sicilian
July 14, 2006, 10:37 PM
I've been having a real problem with my 58' binding up guys, is there any way to remedy this problem? Would it be possible to remove some metal from the pin without affecting the timing or rotation? My pin got slightly bent and its been murder getting it back to its original shape. Since then it binds up pretty bad. Even though the pin slides in and out easy enough it still doesn't let the cylinder rotate properly. I guess I'm going to have to break down and order a new cylinder pin, huh? So...any ideas before that happens?

Sicilian.

Duncaninfrance
July 15, 2006, 07:30 AM
I wipe down and pull the barrel through with windex after every cylinder so that there is no build up of crud on any of the parts and it helps to clean more easily afterwards. Because I use a bench loader I take the cylinder out everytime so it is no problem.
Once you get into the habit it takes no time at all.
Duncan

Low Key
July 15, 2006, 08:30 AM
Sorry Mario, :(
If the pin is bent, you'll never get it bent back straight as it needs to be. If it were me, I'd just go ahead and eat the cost for a new cylinder pin which would most likely arrive in less than a week. Until then, go easy on the gun so you don't throw the timing out of whack.

The Sicilian
July 15, 2006, 11:25 AM
I did get it back to original form, at least by the looks of it, but there could easily be imperfections that my eye cannot pick up. I use windex too Duncan, and when I used wads I used to clean the cylinder every six shots, but now I use a larger ball to seal the chambers, it's cheaper than buying or making wads. I've shot over 2000 rounds without wads and no problems yet, hopefully it will remain so. I took the cylinder pin out of the frame last night and spun the cylinder on the pin as I held it in my hand, moving the position of the cylinder up towards the firing gauge a little bit each time. I came to find out that the firing guage was the problem. Because of the deformation from the guage the cylinder was getting hung up on the tiny bit of metal that was displaced by the slow formation of the firing guage. I carefully filed the little "hump" away and now the cylinder spins just like new, maybe a little better than new! Thanks for the advice. I'll still get a new pin eventually, when I order other parts that I need. It's best to order a bunch of stuff at one time to take advantage of the shipping charge.

Manyirons
July 15, 2006, 11:41 AM
Course ya know tha MANN does a cylinder conversion, gives ya a hardend steel er bearin bronze bushin in tha cylinder, sets into tha frame, gas bushin, no more hangin up cause o foulin build up.

KINDA like this picture, only one i got. (Only better)

The Sicilian
July 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
That sounds prett wild, how much does it cost though? That's basically what Ruger did with their Old Army and it works like a charm! :D Great idea!

Manyirons
July 15, 2006, 11:48 AM
Yer lookin at a 40.00 dollar job in steel or bronze.

The Sicilian
July 15, 2006, 11:54 AM
That's very reasonable! I think I'll have to do that at some time in the near future. How much for a super tune to boot Manyirons? Maybe bore out the cylinders a bit to get them all shooting as uniform as possible?

Sicilian.

Manyirons
July 15, 2006, 11:59 AM
Mario!

Ya aint wantin a SUPERTUNE lessen ya really competes fer money. Standard #2 does right well, action, timin, barrel&chambers matched, barrel reamed etc. Thas a 100.00. He Ransoms them at 27 yards (I AINT usin meters!) an they'll SHOOT when he's done!

Or I ransom em these days! AN clean em! He's tha talent, i's tha grunt work!

The Sicilian
July 15, 2006, 12:11 PM
Sounds pretty good to me! You must be having a great time learning all of this excellent stuff! Wish I lived out in Ohio, I'd join you taking out the trash and sweeping up the shop floor! :D So Mayirons, what kind of things have you been learning being around Jule?

Sicilian.

Manyirons
July 15, 2006, 12:20 PM
Learnin ya DONT wanna start him up, starts talkin enginneerin an that all math! He wants PERFECT fer everthin, an good nuff AINT!

Oh! An they IS POP QUIZES! Learnin ta PAY ATTENTION! I'm kiddin some, really too much at times ta pick it all up.

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