What is the ideal caliber for Feral Cats?


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MeekandMild
May 2, 2003, 10:55 PM
What is the ideal caliber for Feral Cats?

(I've got to admit the .17 rimfire magnum is only my favorite because the 5.5 Velo Dog isn't avaialble any more!)

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JasonPT145
May 2, 2003, 11:10 PM
I have had good luck in the past with a single shot 20. Of course this was before the "nazi neighbors" decided to build ahouse behind us, and call the cops every time they heard a loud bang :cuss:

Hypnogator
May 2, 2003, 11:19 PM
Sounds like a fine use for the ol' .25-20 to me!;)

CZ-75
May 2, 2003, 11:20 PM
.50BMG, of course.

Benjamin
May 2, 2003, 11:31 PM
For some reason, when I was growing up my dad had some really small .22 rimfire cartridges he called 'cat bullets'. It was a few years until I learned about CB caps... but I'm told that they work well.

Art Eatman
May 2, 2003, 11:41 PM
Misty. Feral cats oughta be misty.

Ergo, to wit and therefore, a .220 Swift or a .243 is just the thing for the creation of mistiness!

I haven't meddled with the load for a number of years, but you can swage an 80-grain flat nosed .32-20 bullet down to .308 and seat it ahead of way too much 3031 in an '06 and create mistiness, as well.

:D, Art

sm
May 3, 2003, 06:34 AM
Note to self:
Definitions:

#1, Misty or mistiness = feral cat + firearm
#2, Sail cat = feral cat + 18 wheeler/train*

Now I know what I did using an '06...that'd be #1
I learned about #2 at an early age. Don't ask.

Thanks Art
:D

*sail cat: a cat smashed flat from a semi or train...one can "sail" it across the highway or tracks

Smoke
May 3, 2003, 06:57 AM
I beleive Art is absolutely right.

I can't think of a thing to add...

bedlamite
May 3, 2003, 07:29 AM
I gotta agree with CZ-75 on this one.

geekay
May 3, 2003, 07:33 AM
All of the above calibres. Have hit one @ 150 yards with a 150gn 303 @ 2530fps that just fell over without an exit wound compared with another @ 100yards with a 55gn 223 @ 3170fps that done spectacular cartwheels and giant leaps. Feral cat shooting is something like F.Gumps "box of chocolates", you never know what you're going to get but it will be different.

Matt1911
May 3, 2003, 08:22 AM
Its farm country 'round here,and we use 223's for coy-dogs,coyotes and cats,mainly because the cats,like coyotes,are wary and do not let you get very close,if they do,its a pet.
Also works well for ground hogs and the occasional chicken:what:

coonan357
May 3, 2003, 12:06 PM
158 gr .357 mag Handloaded Golddot with blue dot out of a ruger gp161 is the cat dispatcher here . out of the back window on the second floor at 50 feet ol tom did a quad back flip and didn't land on his feet , the second tom did the twist and flopped . yes a little messy but gets the job done .. BTW beware of the muzzle flash it is bright at night ..

A. Partisan
May 3, 2003, 03:40 PM
.308....Sierra 110gr HP + 53.2gr Win748

atek3
May 3, 2003, 04:24 PM
Feral cat shooting is something like F.Gumps "box of chocolates", you never know what you're going to get but it will be different.

thanks for making me laugh pretty hard :)

Soap
May 3, 2003, 05:54 PM
In my battery, I would just use a .22LR/Magnum Single Six, Kimber .22, or a Mossy 20 Ga. I guess I haven't blasted that many cats in my day so I might be a little undergunned. Maybe I should use the .270 next time I shoot a feral cat?

MPFreeman
May 3, 2003, 06:55 PM
Potato Gun. 1.5"

Dog....most any caliber.

Trashcan Trap....Lid falls when something jumps in can.

DFBonnett
May 3, 2003, 07:10 PM
I've used .22LR with good results, but the 40gr. Federal .223 Blitz out of my Mini has produced some spectacular results. Almost like a detonation and very humane.

redneck
May 3, 2003, 08:48 PM
I voted for the .22 short to magnum cause its hard to ensure a clean kill with anything less. I've done it with a .177 air rifle before and it did quite nicely but mainly because of the accuracy (gamo 7.6 grain "hunter" pellet at roughly 1000fps, not a BB gun or anything)
I really say use the biggest thing you can safely and without hurting your shoulder too much. After all you should feel good afterwards ;)
The next time one shows up I may try the new .54 great plains rifle. Giant hunk of soft lead doing 2000 ft/sec should have nice results :D

Kharn
May 3, 2003, 09:17 PM
Depends if you want to stuff Fluffy, or make sure no one can tell it was Fluffy. :evil:

Kharn

jdege
May 3, 2003, 09:27 PM
.22 CB will kill a cat or a rat, but won't penetrate a barn wall.

Stevie-Ray
May 3, 2003, 09:30 PM
5mm pneumatic. One shot- one kill.

George Hill
May 3, 2003, 11:38 PM
Too much gun spoils too much meat.

mmmm... KittieKabobs... /Homer Simpson

Feanaro
May 4, 2003, 12:01 AM
12 gauge, buckshot if your aim is good, bird if not. Quick kill and it's not as hard to aim.

PATH
May 4, 2003, 02:03 AM
Well I guess my old Ruger 10/22 will put the furball out! I hate that they kill song birds. I especially hate that screaming they do at night!:fire:

Mannlicher
May 4, 2003, 02:44 PM
As I have stated before, I have dispatched numerous feral cats, and a few stray tabbies with the .22 CB cap. A good accurate rifle, careful aim, and pffffffffft. Thats all she wrote.

cratz2
May 5, 2003, 01:56 AM
243 was my first thought but I suspect that anything from a 223 through a 25-06 would do just fine for turning the little buggers into a wet red spot in the grass.

And I'm sure the 22 Magnum or the faster 22LRs would kill 'em just as dead.

Snowdog
May 5, 2003, 08:11 AM
Never shot a cat for sport, but once in defense....

It was a nasty hot day, and I was helping a buddy (who's arm was in a cast) with hay baling. Drove to the barn and found a large tomcat sitting on a bale and refusing to back down, making wicked noises. Called the friend and he asked me to kill it if I could, it wasn't his and was the prime suspect of inflicting injuries to his daughter's cats (that keep the rodent population in check).

CCW K9 & 115gr Triton Quik-Shoks... not misty, but jelly (and plenty of it). Tried to get an angle that would send the bullet into the ground after finishing with the cat.
In retrospect, I should have hunted a shovel, the mess ruined a good part of a bale, and only the cows would eat the rest...the horses wouldn't touch it.
Felt bad for the friend, but he was nothing but grateful that what his daughters dubbed "demon cat" had bought the farm.

If I had to eliminate a nasty "demon cat" again, I believe I'd declare my Rem. 597 .22WMR as the most ideal device at my disposal, unless it's sitting on a hay bale.

Bruce in West Oz
May 5, 2003, 08:26 AM
Any damn thing I have in my hand!!!

Most usually, .22 rimfire.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/BIWOZ/Feral_cat.gif

Jedi_7.62
May 5, 2003, 05:21 PM
I'd like to try the 50 sounds like a great idea. Nothing left to pick up.

usually .22 but when I get the chance I find my SAR 1 performs nicely.:D :D :D

As I said in another cat post I enjoy any chance to use my AK.

Anything else the bullets are to expensive to waste on a cat.

MeekandMild
May 5, 2003, 06:04 PM
Bruce, what sort of critters do 'Stralian cats kill?

redneck
May 5, 2003, 06:41 PM
From what I've read, cats aren't a native species in Australia so the stray problem is even bigger down there. There isn't anything besides people that will thin them out. So until Bruce can give you a more specific answer, I'd say cats kill everything smaller than they are short of the really nasty critters like some of their snakes.

Bruce in West Oz
May 6, 2003, 03:20 AM
Feral cats here eat anything they can get their paws on. They are particularly damaging to small native mammals such as the quoll, many of which are now classified as endangered. Similarly, they have a penchant for munching native birds. (Note that some animal-huggers dispute that cats cause any damage at all -- a claim that's a bit hard to swallow (pun intended) when government estimates are that there some 12 million feral cats here.)

Research shows that both feral and domestic cats kill and eat more than 100 native Australian species of birds, 50 mammal and marsupial species, 50 reptile species, and numerous frogs and invertebrate species. In Australia, cats have no natural predators. They are most active at night, dusk and dawn when much of our native wildlife is also active.

http://www.npws.nsw.gov.au/help/catswild.htm

They're incredibly self-reliant and tough. They are known to live in all parts of Australia -- even the dead heart (the deserts in the centre of Oz) are home to them.

http://audit.ea.gov.au/ANRA/docs/gifs/final_report/fig_57.gif

Bruce

Shalako
May 6, 2003, 01:14 PM
Nice graphic Bruce.

For my application, close range would call for a super choked turkey gun shooting magnum 4s. Longer range would demand the .223.

I think I'll develop a new round specifically for coons and cats and othersuch beasties. It will be a sintered aluminum rifled slug in the 12 gage variety. It will have a hollow cavity filled with, lets say, 6M sodium hydroxide. That way, in addition to explosive fragmentation, the strong base solution will sear and blister for extra terminal misting effects. The splatter factor alone should be quite sensational. Off to the drawing board......

ps. I think I will call it, The Gobstopper (TM)

MeekandMild
May 6, 2003, 01:45 PM
Bruce, that's terrible! You have my sympathies. I recall a National Geographic magazine article from the mid 1960's which showed pictures of all the cute fuzzy little near-extinct marsupials.

Do they import the Marlin Model 17 to Australia? It has many of the capabilities of a .22 but zings out its little .17 caliber slug at nearly warpspeed, Haven't seen any misting effect, but the cats seem to fall into a black hole when hit.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/gear/reviews/article/0,13285,388722,00.html

ball3006
May 6, 2003, 02:44 PM
on feral dogs. Whatever is leaning against the door or on my hip. Dogs are easier to hit because they don't usually run when they see you.....chris3

Bruce in West Oz
May 6, 2003, 10:27 PM
Do they import the Marlin Model 17 to Australia?

Yep, M&M, sure do. The round has received some excellent shooting press here in local gun magazines. Being a rimfire, it's also easier to licence under our onerous laws than a centrefire is.

The Marlin ranges in price from about $550 to $800, depending on the model.

We can also get the excellent Anschutz in .17 HMR too. The difference is in price -- which ranges from $1300 up to $2400, depending on model. :what:

Bruce

HadEmAll
May 7, 2003, 12:28 AM
CB caps after they're in the trap works just fine here in the city limits. I like and admire cats, but when they start doing damage to my vehicle paint jobs, they've got to go.

telewinz
May 7, 2003, 04:32 PM
I find the .50 caliber Browning gives me the needed edge in tight situations. In a dark closed in alley or under the front porch, I can't afford to have an underpowered gun if and when the first shot doesn't take him/her down for the count. Pussy cats have been known to charge:what: without even being wounded! You can't say that about a slow rhino or an even slower african bull elephant. Yes sir, I'm talking about one shot vaborizing, when only the best will do.:D

Pinned&Recessed
May 7, 2003, 04:42 PM
I think the .577 or .600 Nitro Express are the way to go on feral cats. It puts them down with authority.:D :D :D

Seriously, I think a good hi velocity .22 like CCI Stingers would do fine. An AR loaded with M193-spec ball makes an interesting result.

JackStraw
May 8, 2003, 12:32 AM
Not cool, but what do you expect from the uneducated and barbaric.

I trap them, sterilize them, and then release. They keep the mouse/rat population in check. We have done over 5000 in the last year.

The vets donate their services to the organization that we are affiliated with www.bestfriends.org (http://)

I have two feral kittens that I rescued. Best pets and I'm not a cat person.

If I ever saw someone shooting cats I would inconspicuously make note of their Lic#, address, description for future use. Would it be worth it?

stevelyn
May 8, 2003, 09:42 AM
I would liked to have voted, but since there wasn't an alternative feral cat medicine available, I'll have to describe wn entertaining option.
See, here in AK seal bombs are popular for keeping seals and sea lions out of fishing nets, running bears out of dumpsters and you yard before exiting your house.
For those of you that don't know about or have never seen a seal bomb, they are nothing more than a large firecracker about 4" long and about a 1/2" in diameter with waterproof cannon fuse to set it off. They let off a pretty loud bang but not hot enough to set off det cord (trust me I know)
Well anyways, remember the scene in Saving Private Ryan, when Capt. Miller demonstrated the use of sticky bombs to disable the German tanks? A similar thought occurred to me to employ seal bombs in a similar fashion where to the exterior of the seal bombs were coated with an adhesive substance that could stick well enough to cat fur, but would not so much that it would prohibit a person throwing the seal bomb accurately at the cats. :D :evil: :D
I think this is something that deserves further study and expermentation.:evil:

foghornl
May 8, 2003, 10:06 AM
Having lived "out in the boonies" before, and had people that would drop off no-longer-wanted cats and dogs, I suggest anything from the 40MM Bofors cannon down to the .17 Maggy

:evil:

Once, I had a feral cat roaming around that actually took down a goose. Same cat took a load of #5 from the 12 gauge at about 40 yds...found some fur and a bit of blood from where he ran off.
Finished the job a couple of days later with a 3" Mag #4 buck at about 25 Yds. Said cat was huge...almost thought it was a bobcat, except it had the mixed black & white coloring of a standard "housecat".


.17 Maggy for the cat, 40MM Bofors for use against the car of those that drop-n-drive-away unwanted pets:evil: :evil: :evil:

MeekandMild
May 8, 2003, 06:58 PM
Not cool, but what do you expect from the uneducated and barbaric. I have ten years of formal education after my honors degree in biology. My ornithology teacher was a nationally recognized expert.

I trap them, sterilize them, and then release. They keep the mouse/rat population in check. We have done over 5000 in the last year. Mice and rats are needed to keep up a healthy population of hawks, owls, snakes, skunks, coons, bobcats and assorted other natural predators. Cats make no distinction between European rodents and the threatened species of deer footed mice, dunes mice te cetera.

Cats also eat a wide variety of insects, birds, lizards and assorted critters. So you're deliberately killing off the indigenous wildlife. Multiply 5000 by 100 in the north or 200 to 500 for the warmer climates to get an idea of the annual number of songbirds you have killed. 1/2 million by the most conservative estimate!!!

If I ever saw someone shooting cats I would inconspicuously make note of their Lic#, address, description for future use. Would it be worth it? Yes it would be worth it. At your slander hearing I would be happy to produce color slides, graphs and charts which might help your victim obtain a large jury settlement.

On a more sarcastic note, one of my wife's friends is a "cat rescuer". One day she caught a mouse in a glue trap and she was overwhelmed by the little critter's suffering. So what did she do? She considered all her options and her feeble mind could come up with only one option. She BURIED it alive! Admittedly that may have been more humane than being eaten alive by a cat.

So! What is your favorite caliber to use to humanely remove feral cats from the food chain? I prefer the .17 due to its excellent stoppng power and its tendancy to risk less collateral damge to objects which are significantly behind the cat.

Art Eatman
May 8, 2003, 07:46 PM
JackStraw said, "They keep the mouse/rat population in check." Now, I'd agree that's a good thing if you're talking about mice and rats in your house or barn.

Problem is, a feral cat could care less if the mouse is (for instance) a kangaroo rat, which is a little desert critter which is listed as "Threatened", if not "Endangered".

A feral cat is uninterested in the "Endangered" listing of the burrowing owls of the campus of the University of South Florida--which feral cats are killing toward extinction.

These are but two examples; there are many more available to an educated person.

I've noticed that some knowledge of ecosystems and environmental inter-relationships is more common among educated people. Absence of a modicum of such knowledge makes one wonder...

:), Art

HerbG
May 8, 2003, 07:50 PM
My personal experience is that a 185 grn. target wadcutter at about 800 fps from a match .45 will do the trick every time! In addition, the .22 LRHP is a lousy feline dispatcher.

Combat-wombat
May 8, 2003, 07:52 PM
Heh heh... I marked .50 BMG.

BARRY
May 8, 2003, 09:57 PM
A .350 Rem Mag load with 125 gr HP pistol bullets coutesty of Speer #9 manual. Reloader 7 powder!

Art Eatman
May 8, 2003, 10:01 PM
http://conservation.law.ufl.edu/spotlight.html

:), Art

Bruce in West Oz
May 8, 2003, 11:09 PM
Not cool, but what do you expect from the uneducated and barbaric.

You want to be very careful about that kind of talk around here; you're likely to find yourself well and truly outclassed in the education stakes.

I trap them, sterilize them, and then release. They keep the mouse/rat population in check. We have done over 5000 in the last year.

5000 in the year? You're losing the battle.

I have two feral kittens that I rescued. Best pets and I'm not a cat person.

Then they are no longer feral; ergo, no problem. (But I still find this curious -- I've seen photos of a person's hand after encountering a couple of feral "kittens" -- looked like a chainsaw had been at work.)

If I ever saw someone shooting cats I would inconspicuously make note of their Lic#, address, description for future use. Would it be worth it?

Absolutely -- I might need to call you in as a witness when I claimed my bounty for shooting the cats. Oh, and BTW, following someone to get their address is not regarded too highly by the police in this country. :D

Bruce

JackStraw
May 9, 2003, 02:36 AM
Oh, and BTW, following someone to get their address is not regarded too highly by the police in this country.

Neither are gun owners from what I hear. And don't you mean gestapo. Thats why I'm an American. No wonder their taking your guns away.

Yes it would be worth it. At your slander hearing I would be happy to produce color slides, graphs and charts which might help your victim obtain a large jury settlement.

Slander hearing please! Slander is a tort that involves the spoken word, libel is the terminology your after and none of this meets the legal test. I you want the seminal case I will email it to ya. After you finish law school lemme know...maybe then YOU could give me a run for YOUR money...but you'll have to get in line and everyone in front of you have paid their dues in the paper chase, a club of which I am sure you hold no credentials.

Art, you make some good points. But unless you live in a rural area the discharge of firearms within any city limits that I'm aware of: is illegal. Looks like your going to have to add traps or euthanaisa to the poll

The emperical facts you cite regarding the effect ferals have on indigenous organisims is probably correct. But I still couldn't stomach killing kittens. You are a better man than I.

MeekandMild
May 9, 2003, 06:47 PM
JackStraw,

Nope, slander is the word I was looking for. More specifically when the person whose licence number and address you (or the hypothecital other cat protector) gather and use in your activities sues you for slander, i.e. according to Webster, "the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation" then I would be more than happy to provide them expert testimony as a trained biologist and as a person who has provided amicus curi testimony in various cases on various subjects through many long years.

I was not aware you considered your proposed actions libelous, according to Webster "a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means " but I will ponder that revelation and study it further. Thank you for the information and chance for further enlightenment. :)

But why would I want to go to law school? What does that have to do with offering to help out as a friend of the court should someone actually defame (as opposed to making insinuating threats to do so) an honest person who is removing these vicious predators from their home and yard environment?

So since you brought up euthanasia, what is your method of choice for cats? Personally I think that carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and natural gas are all unsuitable, as they are no better than slowly strangling the cat. Ketamine or barbaturate overdose are both too expensive and requires a licensed veteranarian to assist. Ether is less expensive and requires only a professionally supervised, trained lab technician but it presents an unacceptable fire hazard. Cervical dislocation, stunning and exanguination are all too risky for injury to the operator and for pain to the cat. KCl solution is excruciatingly painful except when used with anesthetic agents.

In fact, I think all these methods are barbaric and cruel, causing a great deal of unneeded suffering. The most humane way of dispensing with these predators is by shooting them in a rapid and immediate manner. In my own town the humane society (oxymoron?) gases unwanted dogs and cats which I find extraordinarily cruel. They normally take up to an hour to die. :(

Concerning kittens, if feral kittens are found when they are young they can be rehabilitated to become really great INDOOR housepets. I have done this with several through the years, being a cat person despite my understanding of the realities of ecology.


Art,
Thanks for the info. In this area the problem species are beach mice, deer footed mice, bluebirds, and song sparrows. I wonder why there is so much underestimaton of bird kill? could it also be that they are not counting nestlings when the parents have time to move and re-nest?

JackStraw
May 9, 2003, 08:01 PM
I guess that's what a get for arguing a point of law with the King of Webster's.

Shoot away fearless hunter!

Art Eatman
May 9, 2003, 08:27 PM
JackStraw, I favor anybody's efforts to reduce suffering. Trouble is, folks only have so many hours per day to do their deal. Folks in different situations--rural vs. urban, e.g.--have different solutions.

The City of Austin, Texas, animal shelter, uses a vacuum chamber to kill animals which have been held but never adopted. The incoming numbers preclude other methods, and it's safest for the employees--which seems reasonably important. I've yet to die in vacuo or by drowning; I don't know which would be worse.

From my home at Terlingua to any animal shelter is over 85 miles. Heck, when I lived on the old family ranch near Austin, it was over nine miles of heavy traffic. And when the feral cat is 200 or 300 yards away and wild, I flat-out don't have time or inclination to spend a day or three going, "Here, Putty..."

I do know this: The professional wildlife people tell us there are tens of millions of feral cats in the U.S., which means efforts like yours--laudable as they may be--are not much more than piddlin' in the whiskey. That's the harsh reality of the problem.

Art

ninenot
May 9, 2003, 08:47 PM
What I want to know is: why no .22-250? Seems to me to be the best non-large-game round for the task. Fast, lotsa impact, and not too loud/not too expensive...:what:

MeekandMild
May 9, 2003, 09:53 PM
Begging the political aspects of the question it looks like the group is shaking out into several major camps.

Number one right now with over 28% are the .22 folks. Quiet, clean and able to shoot through 8-16 inches of wet magazines this round is the favorite after 109 posts. You can't go wrong with a .22 for rural predator control unless the cat decides to flay you in one last dying effort.

Last place looks like a near tie for the more underpowered air rifles, .22 CB and the small centerfire pistols. I suppose that I'd take on a cat with a Kel Tec .32 only if another one ever tries to skin and debone me like happened a few years ago. Very brave folks, and good shots! :D

The old standby 12 gauge is also a solid favorite with nearly 19% and if you add the 7+ percent for the 20 gauge that is over 1/4 of the votes. Quick and humane, but oh the mess! ;) Got to stand away a bit otherwise you'd be picking cat out of your hair for weeks. (I wonder, for those who recycle their feral cats as food for vultures and hawks, do you use steel shot?)

Centerfire varmint and deer rifles score well too, with nearly 10% of the votes but elk rifles have fewer fans. Not surprising considering a feral cat is by definition a varmint and not at all as tough to knock down as an elk, except when it is all hopped up on adrenalin after killing and eating your great dane.

Surprising was the over 12% vote for those long distance target rifles we'd all like to shoot if we lived in the desert or could afford to join one of those big shooting clubs with the 1000 yard ranges. As for me, I can't tell the difference between a cat and a 'dillo at 1000 yards.

Eight and a half percent of the voters liked middle and big bore pistols. I wonder what percent of those 11 voters uses scopes and whether that would give significant advantage in the semidarkness that cats prefer for their vicious attacks. I also wonder how many use body armor and riot helmets when confronting cats at close range. It is good to protect vital areas, thought the arms and legs are expendable whenever feral cats are concerned.

Finally, seven other hardy souls, for a total of over six percent voted for the .17 rimfire magnum. All the fun of a .50 BMG but only 1/100 the recoil and 1/10 the range! :D

Misty. I like that. Kind of takes me back to the times 40 years ago when you could sit on the front porch and watch a bluebird in the early morning haze without a feral CAT trying to sneak up and eat them. :rolleyes:

Meek

ninenot, 22-250 was included in the centerfire varmint to deer rifle list. It is a fine round and if you want to start another poll about just varmint rifles I would consider voting for it if the .17 isn't on your list. ;)

Tommy Gunn
May 9, 2003, 11:01 PM
Sounds like a fine use for the ol' .25-20 to me!

Ditto!

Bruce in West Oz
May 10, 2003, 07:37 AM
JackStraw

You're an American???

Funny you should use the name of the British politician who was the engineer behind the major disarmament of Britons after Dunblane.

Taking away our guns?? Yep, perhaps -- but I've still got a (legal) safe full of them -- and I'm just about to add a .303 No. 1 Mk III and a 12 g under and over to the collection. All legal, all easy.

(Edited by Art, and probably a bit too much, but it's depersonalized, now.)

PsyWarrior
May 10, 2003, 09:06 PM
My favorite is not listed. I prefer a .223.

goon
May 11, 2003, 01:00 AM
I have seen both the .22LR and the 12GA as well as a .410 shotgun used. They all worked.
My personal preference goes with the .22. It makes less noise, and will not go until it hits the nearest armored vehicle like more powerful rounds will.
As long as the shots are well placed (in the head), the .22 is the best.

JackStraw
May 11, 2003, 01:26 PM
You're an American???

Yep!

And guess what? You're wrong again. The reason the police don't take too kindly to that sort of thing is because we, the citizens, value our privacy and told the politicians to make laws regarding our privacy and safety.

Kind of like the gun laws you have too. Privacy from having your guns taken for the saftey of the rest of your prison society

(Overly personal nonsense removed by Art. :) )

(Sorry about the butchering, but this I said/you said stuff is really low-rent. Art)

tex_n_cal
May 11, 2003, 02:58 PM
Well, I have two stray cats that I've adopted, and they both stay in the house. One is curled up in the chair beside me at this moment. Both are friendly animals, which is how they got adopted in the first place. I tell people, if the cat comes to you, it likes people, and is worthy of adoption.

As far as feral cats, they are pests, and they do kill songbirds and small mammals, so they do need to go. If a centerfire rifle is not appropriate, then a subsonic .22 out of a rifle will be pretty quiet and reasonably effective.

Further along the scale on quietness is a pistol crossbow, or a wristrocket slingshot - depends on where you live. Use broadheads if you use an arrow - field points don't do enough damage - based on what I've seen with rabbits.(never have shot a cat). Oh yeah, .36 caliber lead balls greatly enhance the effectiveness of slingshots:D

Shalako
May 12, 2003, 01:20 PM
Actually, Jack Straw is one of the all-time greatest Grateful Dead tunes (Lyrics by Robert Hunter) Sorry, couldn't resist.


We can share the women
We can share the wine
We can share what we got of yours
'Cause we done shared all of mine

Keep a rolling
Just a mile to go
Keep on rolling, my old buddy
You're moving much too slow


I just jumped the watchman
Right outside the fence
Took his ring, four bucks in change
Now ain't that heaven sent?


Hurts my ears to listen, Shannon
Burns my eyes to see
Cut down a man in cold blood, Shannon
Might as well be me


We used to play for silver
Now we play for life
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife
Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all
Not with all...


Leaving Texas
Fourth day of July
Sun so hot, clouds so low
The eagles filled the sky


Catch the Detroit Lightning
Out of Santa Fe
Great Northern out of Cheyenne
From sea to shining sea


Gotta get to Tulsa
First train we can ride
Got to settle one old score
And one small point of pride...


Ain't no place a man can hide, Shannon
Keep him from the sun
Ain't no bed will give us rest, man,
You keep us on the run


Jack Straw from Wichita
Cut his buddy down
Dug for him a shallow grave
And layed his body down


Half a mile from Tucson
By the morning light
One man gone and another to go
My old buddy you're moving much too slow


We can share the women
we can share the wine...

JackStraw
May 12, 2003, 02:31 PM
Right on my Brother!

Johnny Guest
May 13, 2003, 02:20 PM
- - -I'd have voted for .22 rimfire or one of the varmint cotterges, but, since I just received a Marlin .45-70 for my birthday . . . .

This Trap-Neuter-Release stuff reminds me of a story I heard a while back - - -

Sheep ranchers in - - Idaho? Montana? - - somewhere up there, were having sheer, unmitigated carnage, caused by coyotes. Going broke. Cyanide guns had been outlawed for several years and the yodel dogs were breeding and feasting unrestrained. Public hearings were being held, to try to gain the ranchers an exemption from the cyanide prohibition.

The fine old actor and outdoorsman, Slim Pickens, lived somewhere in the area, and the livestock associaiton asked him to make their presentation at a hearing. Ole Slim made a rather homespun but very articulate talk, putting across their points quite well.

Moderator opened the forum to questions from the public. This rather pushy, Friends of Animals-type city woman stood up and asked: "Mr. Pickens, it just seems so, so cruel to poison the poor coyotes. Wouldn't it serve just as well to humanely TRAP the coyotes, and neuter them and turn them loose?"

Slim kinda grinned and answered, "Well, ma'am, the problem is, the coyotes are eating the sheep, not *blank*ing them to death."

Best,
Johnny

JackStraw
May 13, 2003, 04:22 PM
I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong about killing kittens. You wise souls have shown me the light. With that I will place my vote for "the best caliber to kill kittens" is:

www.hill.af.mil/icbm/lmpage/images/0430peacelnc.jpg


Peacekeeper ICBM (LGM-118, MX)
Year Deployed: 1986
Dimensions: 21.6 meters length, 2.34 meters diameter
Weight: 88,450 kilograms
Propulsion: Three stage solid plus liquid PBV, cold launch
Throw-weight: 3,950 kilograms
Range: 9,600 kilometers8
Guidance: Computer-controlled inertial for booster and PBV
Circular Error Probable: 90 meters9
Warhead: 10 x W87 warheads
Yield: 3-400 kilotons10
Locations: F.E. Warren AFB - 50
Number Deployed: 50 missiles (0 planned)
Primary Contractor: Martin-Marietta Strategic Systems

Touch off one of these and you won’t have to worry about feral kittens or anything for that matter ever again! Guaranteed!

:D, sez Art's grammaw...

MeekandMild
May 13, 2003, 07:49 PM
Johnny, I suppose that if a person handloaded using a reduced charge and soft hollow point pistol bullets that would reduce the overpenetration issue. I don't know where to find .45 plastic shotshells for reloading, but that would seem to be an even better solution. Maybe ask Art for advice?

MeekandMild
May 14, 2003, 05:52 PM
Art, this has been nagging me since I posted the last post. Why aren't those little blue plastic shotshells more widely available? Who is an expert on loading them?

I've been wondering about the proper combination of powder, toilet paper and grits to make it feasible to shoot one out of the .35 Rem, but I'm afraid to experiment for fear of ending up with melted plastic fouling.

TechBrute
May 14, 2003, 05:59 PM
.50BMG, of course. Ditto!

Art Eatman
May 14, 2003, 07:36 PM
M&M, the only person I can think of, off the cuff, would be Oliver Buschow at McBride's Guns in Austin, Texas. They have a website, and an email might get through to Oliver.

He runs their reloading department, and plays with all manner of esoteric handloads.

Art

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