Beretta or S&W?

[Dacos]

Guys I need your help. I'm looking for a new pistol for my Mom who hasn't shot in a number of years; 20 years ago my mom and dad were shooting club regulars (Dad passed away a few yrs ago). I'm considering purchasing 2 firearms for her SD:

First, the Beretta 86 b/c of the flip up barrel b/c she has trouble racking the slide of my S&W, Colt, and Sig autos due to some arthritis (She's 60). Yes, I could drill her in a technique that would solve the problem, but this is Mom and I want her to have the best, easiest firearm to manipulate. I plan on shooting with her at least once a month. The Beretta 86 slide can be racked in the traditional manner or the barrel flipped-up and cartridge inserted, the latter for ease of loading. I read that in order for the barrel to be flipped-up:
1. The safety must be roated upward to the on position then
2. The barrel safety latch rotated 180 degrees then
3. the barrel can be flipped upward and the latch rotated back and the safety taken off for the weapon to fire.
Is 1-3 correct??? Sounds awfully complicated for someone to remember in a stressful situation (I KNOW TRAINING WILL OVERCOME THIS BUT WE"RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ME).

Or a S&W .38 Special - Ladysmith, Model 15, or the like.

I will most likely decide on the second choice if steps 1-3 must be performed for loading the beretta 86. BTW, what 2-4" .38 do you all recommend, if this is the case?

Thx in advance for your comments, Dacos

[surfinUSA]

If your mom has arthritis I'd go with the S&W k frame with 38+P loads. These are reliable easy to handle and well proven over the years.

I've never owned a Beretta 86. The problem with the tip up barrels (at least in the 22 and 25 models) is that there is no extractor. This can lead to ejection problems (although I've never seen it, its more likely w/o an extractor). Also the gun cannot be cleared quickly of a bad round just by racking the slide. The barrel must be tipped, bad round removed, barrel closed, slide racked to recharge (too damn slow for my taste). If she likes the Beretta go with the 85 or 84 with the standard barrel and extractor.

If it were my mom though I'd go with the S&W revolver. Easy to handle easy to load and unload. Simple, uncomplicated, and relatively powerful. Just what the home defense doctor ordered.

[PATH]

Revolver is probably the easiest to use and maintain. No need for doubletaps. Stovepipes can be a problem. Revolver no go bang simply pull trigger again in most cases. If it were my mom the revolver would be what I'd get her!

[Boats]

As much as I like Berettas I would say find a S&W Model 10 Military and Police .38Spec at a gun show after going and printing off the revolver check out thread linked to the Revo forum from back at TFL. Save everyone involved a lot of money.

Arthritis? Simplicity? Effectiveness? Those all argue for a DA revo with a more generous grip and handling characteristics than available on a Ladysmith snubbie.

[MikeJ]

I agree that the revolver is the way to go, without question. A tip up barrel is fine as an alternative to racking the slide but IMO should never be chosen if that is the ONLY way you can chamber a round. Due to the blowback design, .380 slides have a tendency to be a little more difficulat to rack due to the increase in spring tension.

As far as revolvers go I think she should get one where she can learn to shoot it accurately in the double action mode. I personally think this is important in defensive training with revolvers. The one I would take a look at would be:
S&W 66 - 2 1/2" or 4"
S&W 65 - 4" (a real winner in my book when shooting .38+P's as it is lighter in the barrel and has great balance) or Ladysmith 3"
S&W 640 Centennial - I have one of these and due to the higher grip hold you can obtain dut to the concealed hammer design allows for very accurate and relatively easy double action pull

I would also take a look at the Ruger GP100 with a 3" barrel. These have smaller grips than the 4" adjustable sight model and have a wonderful balance to them. Hope this helps, Mike

[Dacos]

Thx to all who replied! We've settled on a S&W Model 36 Lady Smith w/3" barrel. I will let you know what she and I think of it after we take it to the range next week, Dacos

[Mastrogiacomo]

If she has pain in her hands S&W isn't a good choice. Female shooter here and former owner of a S&W revolver -- sold it.

Reasons again S&W? Hard trigger pull, no accuracy except at close range, recoil -- you think her hands hurt now....:rolleyes: Of course if she just wants it to look pretty and never plans to use it....

My solution? What I use -- Beretta compact M. Why? Gentle recoil, cheap ammo for plenty of range time to practice, extremely safe gun that's great for a novice, "dead on balls" accurate, reliable, no jams, easy on the hands (I have trouble with pain in my left hand but no pain with this gun) easy to maintain. That's right easy to maintain. Take it some lessons for help with cleaning if it concerns her -- I did and troubled no more.:D I love these guns and will never go back to S&W. Learned my lesson. :)

[Sir Galahad]

The trigger pull on my Smith 66 is fine, DA or SA. I'm not the biggest handed man in the world (a 1911 in my hands looks like a Desert Eagle or a full-size Uzi in other folks hands) and I do fine with full house magnum loads in my .357 Smith. The key is to get a steel frame, not airweight or scandium, I woud think. For a house gun, a longer barrel will cut perceived recoil. The .38 Special has probably settled more baddies down than many other rounds.

[Mastrogiacomo]

You could be right but still, you are a man and you don't mention any painful condition with either of your hands. Have any joint pain in either hand? I do, and the woman question clearly does in both.(?)

I find that a lot of people that steer women to revolvers do so with the idea that it'll never be used. What's the point of owning a gun you never practice with? Again, I don't like the trigger pull on the revolvers or pistols from S&W. The Beretta in compact M has a much easier trigger pull, great grip and is much more accurate with less shooting time. This isn't rocket science folks. Berettas, or any pistol for that matter, aren't the hardest thing in the world to take apart for cleaning and that alone shouldn't be the final deterimation in whether to buy a pistol or not. A few lessons can get rid of any issues.

Pistols are also quieter than revolvers when they go off but I guess if the lady in question doesn't have a hyper sensitivity to loud noises that won't be a concern. The fact is that THIS woman shooter finds S&W revolvers, particularly snubbies, to be very unpleasant -- I don't care how many "baddies" it's dropped. Pistols are easier to use from a female point of view and much easier on the joints. I sincerely hope to Christ her son doesn't just buy her the gun before she's had a chance to fire it or he may be in for a remarkable waste of money. Like I said, I SOLD mine.

[Daniel Flory]

If she can handle the trigger pull, I would vote for the Smith. Before you give it to her, get it to a gunsmith that is good with DA pulls to have it lightened and slicked up.

[Longbow]

I'll vote for S&W 640! or Taurus CIA in .357 mag. Costs about the same as the beretta (maybe even less) you're considering, and its more user friendly.

[Mastrogiacomo]

I agree with that recommendation. I tried to do that with my revolver but S&W won't lighten the trigger pull and going to a gunsmith outside the company will nullify the warrenty. This is why I decided to sell my snubbie and buy another Beretta compact. It's just an all around great gun. The other advantage to the Beretta is the manual safety which revolvers don't have. Any grandkids kicking around? Be sure whichever gun your mother goes with that she has a good safe to keep the firearm secured in -- not in a night table, shoe box or the closet. I also can't stress enough that she fire it prior to making the purchase. Felt recoil on the joints can really make or break any initial gun choices.

[ruger357]

S&W K-Frame.

[10-Ring]

If your mom has arthritis, I'd go w/ the revo. Best bet is to take mom shooting & go w/ the one she's more comfy & proficient w/ ;)

[jdkelly]

Mastrogiacomo,

My 686, 625 and 629 shoot like dreams. They've all had trigger jobs performed outside of S&W. While my warranty may be void, I think if I send a gun back to S&W, they will take care of any problem they are responsible for. They may even fix something they aren't responsible for. But if they don't then I pay for the fix. It's not unusual for Smith give a handgun a "going over" while it's apart and to replace components that you don't know you need replaced. Remember that they don't want to alienate a customer, it's just not good business.

Regardless, at least I've been shooting, a smooth shooting and more accurate handgun.

As for pointing females toward revolvers, I think most Instructors suggest a revolver as a first handgun. Mine was, and I make that suggestion to students now. They are simpler to use then autos and if a physical weakness is apparent then racking a slide with a 16 to 22 pound spring is out of the question. Trigger jobs are cheap (50.00 to 100.00) once it's done, you have a simple, dependable, smooth handgun.

jkelly