semi auto shotgun..How big can mag be?


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chetrogers
July 15, 2006, 01:45 AM
I always thought that it was against the law to have a semi auto shotgun with a magazine that will hold 10 or 12..Now maybe it was just a Oregon law but i thought it was a law everywhere?

Me and a friend are discussing it and Would anyone know where online i could get a link so i can send it to him If he is rite or wrong :)

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JohnBT
July 15, 2006, 08:37 AM
I've never heard of any law like that. World record holder Patrick Flanigan uses an SX-2 that holds more than 10 and he shoots it all over the country.

www.patrickflanigan.com/video.cfm

chetrogers
July 15, 2006, 04:05 PM
Im curious to what makes a street sweeper class 3 then..Is it the pistol grip or something..I dont know why i thought a regular shotgun couldnt have more then 10 if it wasnt a pump.O well looks like my friend was rite and i was wrong...

Dionysusigma
July 15, 2006, 04:18 PM
I think at that point (>10 capacity) the lawmakers decided that it became a "destructive device."

Don't ask me why. No gun laws make any real sense.

marklbucla
July 16, 2006, 01:01 AM
I believe ********** has some kind of law restricting mag length in a semi auto.

Hkmp5sd
July 16, 2006, 01:59 AM
I think at that point (>10 capacity) the lawmakers decided that it became a "destructive device."


No, it doesn't. That would make all shotguns with detachable magazines a DD because someone could make a large magazine.

The Street Sweeper was designated a DD because ATF said it was a DD. They wanted to ban it, but it is essentially just a shotgun. The only way to restrict it was stick it under the NFA. The reasons are laughable. It's too heavy to carry while hunting, too cumbersome for skeet or trap shooting, too wide and its shape is too radical.

26 U.S.C. 5845(f)(2): DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE (Nonsporting shotgun having a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter)

The Striker-12/Streetsweeper shotgun has a bore of more than onehalf inch in diameter and is not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. Therefore, it is classified as a destructive for purposes of theNational Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C.

Chapter 53.

ATF Rul. 94-2

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has examined a firearm identified as the Striker- 12/Streetsweeper shotgun to determine whether it is a destructive device as that term is used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.

The Striker-12 and Streetsweeper shotguns are virtually identical 12- gauge shotguns with a spring-driven revolving magazine. The magazine has a 12-round capacity. The shotgun has a fixed stock or folding shoulder stock and may be fired with the folding stock collapsed. The shotgun with an 18-inch barrel is 37 inches in length with the stock extended, and 26.5 inches in length with the stock folded. The shotgun is 5.7 inches in width and weighs 9.24 pounds unloaded. The Striker/Streetsweeper has two pistol grips, one in the center of the firearm below the buttstock, and one on the forearm. The Striker/Streetsweeper was designed and developed in South Africa as a military, security, and antiterrorist weapon. Various types of 12- gauge cartridges can be fired from the shotgun, and a rapid indexing procedure allows various types of ammunition to be loaded into the cylinder and selected for firing. All 12 rounds can be fired from the shotgun in 3 seconds or less.

Section 5845(f), Title 26, U.S.C., classifies certain weapons as "destructive devices" which are subject to the registration and tax provisions of the NFA. Section 5845(f)(2) provides as follows:

(f) Destructive device – The term,"destructive device" means * * *

(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; ..."

A "sporting purposes" test which is almost identical to that in section 5845(f)(2) appears in 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3). This provision of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) provides that the Secretary shall authorize a firearm to be imported into the United States if the firearm is "generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes." With the exception of the readily adaptable language, this provision is identical to the sporting shotgun exception to the destructive devices definition. The definition of "destructive device" in the GCA (18U.S.C. 921(a)(4)) is identical to that in the NFA.

In determining whether shotguns with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter are "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes" and thus are not destructive devices under the NFA, we believe it is appropriate to use the same criteria used for evaluating shotguns under the "sporting purposes" test of section 925(d)(3). Congress used virtually identical language in describing the weapons subject to the two statutory schemes, and the language was added to the GCA and NFA at the same time.

In 1984, ATF ruled that the Striker-12 was not eligible for importation under section 925(d)(3) since it is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes. In making this determination, the 1984 letter-ruling notes that the Striker was being used in a number of "combat" shooting events. In a letter dated June 30, 1986, ATF again denied importation to the Striker-12, on the basis that it did not meet the "sporting purposes" test of section 925(d)(3). This letter states that, "We believe the weapon to have been specifically designed for military and law enforcement uses."

In evaluating the physical characteristics of the Striker 12/Streetsweeper, ATF concludes that the weight, bulk, designed magazine capacity, configuration, and other features indicate that it was designed primarily for military and law enforcement use and is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes.

The weight of the Striker- 12/Streetsweeper, 9.24 pounds unloaded, is on the high end for traditional 12-gauge sporting shotguns, which generally weigh between 7 and 10 pounds. Thus, the weight of the Striker-12/Streetsweeper makes it awkward to carry for extended periods,as in hunting, and cumbersome to fire at multiple small moving targets, as in skeet and trap shooting.

The width of the Striker- 12/Streetsweeper, 5.7 inches, far exceeds that of traditional sporting shotguns, which do not exceed three inches in width or four inches in depth. The large size and bulk of the Striker-12/Streetsweeper make it extremely difficult to maneuver quickly enough to engage moving targets as is necessary in hunting, skeet, and revolving magazine with 12-cartridge capacity is a much larger capacity than traditional repeating sporting shotguns, which generally contain tubular magazines with a capacity of 3-5 cartridges. The folding shoulder stock and the two pistol grips are not typical of sporting-type shotguns.

Finally, the overall appearance and general shape of the weapon are radically different from traditional sporting shotguns and strikingly similar to shotguns designed specifically for or modified for combat and law enforcement use.

Section 7805(b), Title 26, U.S.C., provides that the Secretary may prescribe the extent, if any, to which any ruling relating to the internal revenue laws shall be applied without retroactive effect. Accordingly, all rulings issued under the Internal Revenue Code are applied retroactively unless they specifically provide otherwise. Pursuant to section 7805(b), the Director, as the delegate of the Secretary, may prescribe the extent to which any ruling will apply without retroactive effect.

Held: The Striker-12/Streetsweeper is a shotgun with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter which is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes. The weight, size, bulk, designed magazine capacity, configuration, and other factors indicate that the Striker-12/Streetsweeper is a military-type shotgun, as opposed to a shotgun particularly suitable for sporting purposes. Accordingly, the Striker-12/Streetsweeper is a destructive device as that term is used in 26 U.S.C. 5845(f)(2). Pursuant to section 7805(b), this ruling is applied prospectively effective March 1, 1994, with respect to the making, transfer, and special (occupational) taxes imposed by the NFA. All other provisions of the NFA apply retroactively effective March 1, 1994.

beerslurpy
July 16, 2006, 02:10 AM
In CA, semiauto shotgun with mag > 5 or detachable is banned.

The USAS-12 and Streetsweeper were banned by Lloyd Bentsen under Clinton because they have large capacities and generally look very scary. The USAS 12 had 20+ round drums and the street-sweeper had a rotating cylinder magazine.

The revenue ruling was ATF 1994-1 but I cant find it online.

chetrogers
July 16, 2006, 02:28 AM
So it does seem legal to have a semi auto shotgun that can have a magazine over 10...I never would of thunk it..

Third_Rail
July 16, 2006, 03:21 AM
ALL shotguns over .50 bore size (that's all of them except for .410 [and the .22 smoothbores, etc.]) are DDs unless the BATFE specifically says they're just for sporting purposes and thus are exempt. Nice, no? :barf:

razorburn
July 16, 2006, 03:30 AM
So almost all shotguns can be declared legal or illegal depending on their whim? :what: :mad:

beerslurpy
July 16, 2006, 05:05 AM
Yes, there is no objective way of designing a shotgun to ensure that it falls precisely on one side or the other. There is a huge grey area.

To give you an idea of what sort of authority "sporting purposes" gives the ATF, check out this case. The ATF has argued in certain cases that pistol grip shotguns (still ordinary Title 1 weapons) are DDs, at least for the purpose of state laws that ban them under an identical definition (U.S. v. Tomlinson, 67 F.3d 508 (4th Cir. 1995) (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/us_v_tomlinson.txt)). We really need to roll back the 68 GCA, especially the sporting purposes parts. It is a huge land mine waiting to go off when the next anti-gun administration takes power.

50 Shooter
July 16, 2006, 01:16 PM
Read parts 6-8 for **********.

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.


(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

(b) "Assault weapon" does not include any antique firearm.

(c) The following definitions shall apply under this section:
(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.
(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

(d) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.

BergaminoCAV
July 16, 2006, 05:25 PM
Never heard of any mag restrictions unless you are hunting, and I live in Jersey, our gunlaws make other states gunlaws look like small traffic violations lol

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