Most adopted 9mm combat pistol.


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bg226
July 15, 2006, 02:24 PM
Which 9mm pistol has been most adopted by various militaries/countries?

Thanks. :)

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Car Knocker
July 15, 2006, 02:29 PM
The Browning High Power would certainly be in contention for the award.

dairycreek
July 15, 2006, 02:34 PM
CZ makes a claim that it has been adopted by more law enforcement and military organizations than any other pistol in the world. True? Don't know but the CZ sure does get around.:cool:

Grunt
July 15, 2006, 02:40 PM
While I'm sure that the CZ-75 has it's share of military customers, I'd still say that the Browning P-35 would have the title here if for no other reason than the shear number of years it's been in production.

possum
July 15, 2006, 03:10 PM
Hi-Point!:D

orangeninja
July 15, 2006, 03:14 PM
I'm going to say CZ 75. You still see a lot of CZ 75's in use even with the advent of the P01, the 75 is the big boy to beat.

The Hi Power certainly got around a lot during the cold war years and just after, but you don't see a lot of Hi Powers floating about now.

The Beretta 92 would be a third place having replaced every military pistol in America all the way to Brazil. I don't know about Mexico, but maybe next time the Mexican military is helping to smuggle drug runners we can catch one and ask him.:evil:

Dr.Rob
July 15, 2006, 03:19 PM
I doubt any pistol has come close to the number of countries manufacturing, using and or adopting the Browning Hi-Power.

Maybe it's out of favor compared to more modern designs, but it's still in service all over the world.

Uzitiger
July 15, 2006, 08:32 PM
The CZ was derived from the Hi Power pistol with the addition of double action and placing the slide inside the frame with other changes. Both are great pistols. The CZ has a lot of copies including the EAA Witness and the IMI Baby Eagle. The CZ also comes in more calibers than the Hi Power including 9mm Luger, .40 and .45. I saw a CZ-82 at AIM Surplus which shoots the 9x18 Makarov round.

otomik
July 15, 2006, 08:36 PM
Makarov would be in there unless we're talking strictly 9mm Para.

the XM9 trials got it right though, P226 or Beretta 92

bg226
July 15, 2006, 10:45 PM
Yes, this thread is about 9mm Para (9X19).

Harold Mayo
July 15, 2006, 11:34 PM
Hi-power hands down. No question, not as long as you're talking about all-time and not just now.

jaysouth
July 16, 2006, 12:23 AM
You may be right about the HP. However, most of the countries that adopted the HP had very limited issue of pistols. Most of these countries never issued a pistol to an enlisted man, but rather handed them out to officers as badges of rank(British Commonwealth countries).

Anybody know how many 1911s and 1911A1 were produced? It might have been more than HPs.

We need a historian to look into this further.

Another problem, how to equate pistols manufactured with pistols issued.

Harold Mayo
July 16, 2006, 12:27 AM
Oh, God, no...hi-powers are a dime a dozen in a lot of other countries. Every book I've ever read that touches on the subject explicitly states that hi-powers are/were the most-issued handgun in the military and police forces of the world. Other than the US military, very, very few military and/or police have ever used the 1911. Some South American countries had/have them but their populations and militaries were never large in comparison to the US.

Walt Sherrill
July 16, 2006, 12:28 AM
Depends on what you mean by WIDELY USED. Total number or total "units" using them? And currently used, or over a long period of time?

If you're talking about WHAT'S currently used...

CZ's claim that its most widely used, includes lots of small police and military units but relatively small total numbers. I'm a big CZ enthusiast, but I think I know marketing HYPE when I see it. Bogus. Great guns, however. (Relatively few military units use CZ, and Turkey now uses their own "clones".)

Ditto the claim about Browning High Powers. At one time (WWII) they were relatively widely used, but most countries have long since phased them out. SA guns are not loved by most militaries or police units.

There are probably more Beretta 92s in use than anything else (except, perhaps in the Chinese military). The US's use of the 92 probably jacks the numbers up significantly. Then there's the Glock 17 and the SIG 226 (and maybe the 228).

Found the following link on the web. Rather than steal this stuff (unintentionally), I'll just post the links. It is several years old but I doubt that things have changed much since it was compiled. You'll see lots of Glocks and SIGs listed.

www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/DGAAA.html

Scroll down to part 4 - Special Interest Issues.

You find listings for various police and military units.

Car Knocker
July 16, 2006, 01:16 AM
Anybody know how many 1911s and 1911A1 were produced? It might have been more than HPs.

Not in 9mm.

jaysouth
July 16, 2006, 01:20 AM
Again, The number of countries does not equal the number issued. I have no idea which was the most issued in terms of absolute numbers.

However, 1911s manufactured by us were issued to a WHOLE bunch of other armies including Britian, Canada, Greece, Japan and others. Remember that the Norwegians and Argentinians also made their own 1911s.

TO&E counts too. In the indian army, there are 14 handguns issued per battalion. In the U.S. army it must be hundreds per battalion. Thus the entire indian army would use as many handguns as a U.S. battalion.

I would not strongly argue any side until I saw some production and issue figures. If 308 countries issued a particular gun, how many did this come to total?

Car Knocker
July 16, 2006, 01:23 AM
Note the title of this thread:

Most adopted 9mm combat pistol

RON in PA
July 16, 2006, 03:13 AM
The answer is a bit complex, during the height of the cold war to about 1975-80 the most common pistols in western armies were the FNHP and the Walther P38/P1. After approximately 1975 the next generation, the SIG 220 and derivitives and Beretta 92s started to move on the scene, but did not entirely replace the earier pistols. This is conjecture, but I bet there are still some FNHP pistols in reserve coated in cosmoline. As for P1s, they seem to be here in the states.

jaysouth
July 16, 2006, 11:06 PM
See if you can get sales figures for Sig 220s to the Japanese Defense forces and the Swill Defense establishment.

Both countries bought a raft of 220s in 9mm.

The Luger was exported all over the world for many decades.

Walt Sherrill
July 16, 2006, 11:21 PM
Most 220s are .45, not 9mm (the subject of this thread), and the Japanese military and the Swiss military aren't particularly large. If the handguns are issued as they are in most military units, that doesn't account for very many guns...

jaysouth
July 17, 2006, 10:41 AM
Most 220 imported into the U.S. are indeed .45.

However 220s are also manufactured in many other calibers and the 9mm has been very popluar. The 220s purchased by the Swiss and JDF were 9mm.

Onmilo
July 17, 2006, 10:45 AM
68 countries still use Belgian made Hi powers or copies of the pistol made in Argentina, Indonesia, or Hungary.
Far and away it is the most common 9X19 caliber combat handgun available in the world.

The next most prolific 9X19 caliber handgun is the Glock 17/19 with about 30 countries using it.

About equal in dispersion are S&W automatics of all models, Walther P1 pistols, CZ pistols of all models, and Beretta 9mm handguns, 951,92,92S,plus 92F & 92G.

The numbers are based on information compiled by Edward Ezell and Terry Gander and Janes Small Arms.HTH

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