[Flashpoint]

Despite all the Hi-Point threads floating around I've deceided to start another one, kind of.

Where do you think these second rate gun companys like Hi-Point and others will be doing/making in 25 years? Will they ever be on the same playing field or maybe even better than some of todays major players?

[Helio]

Making guns for poor people so they too can enjoy the right to self defense. They've been around for over a decade for a reason, their guns work.

[Bowlcut]

A very basic buisness model, that is what works best. Find a niche' that has the possibility of staying around and growing at the same time, then fill it.

As far as I can tell, until stupid laws are brought about, there should always be a need for a basic form of fiream. Not everyone needs a 1000+ dollar custom 1911 frame firearm, nor do they need to have a pretty firearm :). What this niche is looking for is reliability for the first round to go bang, and then price. Beyond that there isnt much for these guns.

While highpoints will shoot remarkably accurate, and will tend to not have many malfunctions, their main intent *i think* is to offer first time go bang at a cheap price.

They have the ability to go for as long as they want pretty much.

Personaly Im going to be buying a carbine in a week or two, and wouldnt mind one of their pistols as a last ditch pistol, or more importantly a pistol I can stick in the car or such places and forget about. One that i dont need to worry about ruining a 300+ dollar investment if I let it set to long

[firestar]

Gun companies that make cheap guns come and go. I doubt Hi-Point will still be in business in 25 years but there will always be another company ready to make a quick buck off of unsuspecting customers by selling them junk.

$150 for a Hi-Point only looks like a deal until you figuire out what other guns you can buy used for the same money. S&W 10, CZ-52, Star B, Star Super B, CZ-70, CZ-50, Polish Tokarev, Ruger Speed, Security, Service Six, Bersa, Makarov, etc., etc. Everyone of those listed can be had for $150 or less and they are ALL better made than the Hi-Point.

[George Hill]

High Point will still be around... because as was said before people with not a lot of coin will still need a reliable and reasonably accurate pistol.
I give High Points hell, because they are so worthy of it - but I do have to give them a nod... they have a purpose.

And I wish them well.

[Bowlcut]

You name off a bunch of guns there....but how many of those are easily found in your local gun shop when you have 150 bucks in your pocket? most of those guns, ive not seen in a shop anywhere back home, only a few down here in nashville. ive seen high point in more than one store.

Im going to buy their carbine, and like i said wouldnt mind one of their pistols. if nothing else...to help the company out. heck im all for someone making a quality product :) now pretty products i dont buy ;)

[444]

Another point seldom mentioned is that Hi-Points are chambered in standard American calibers. I live in a small rural town. There are a couple of gun shops. I doubt if any of them stock 9mm Makarov or 7.62x25. Sure, they will order it for you, and I have ordered it from them before. But if I decided that I wanted to go out plinking and didn't have ammo, I KNOW they have .45 ACP and 9mm Luger in stock. If they have one box of ammo in stock, it will be one of these two calibers. Then we get into self defense loads. Know any good factory self defense loads in 7.62x25 ? There used to be a load in 9mm Mak that used Hornady XTPs, but I understood that it had been discontinued.
On the subject of inexpensive gun manufacturers, few of them over the years have made them in adequate self defense calibers. Most of them have been stuff like .25 ACP. With High Point, you can get a .45 ACP. If I was looking for something to put on my nightstand, I personally would much rather have a .45 ACP than a 9mm Makarov or a 7.62x25. I have seldom seen the other guns you mention in retail stores for the price of a High Point.

[makdaddy03]

Hi-Point has been around about 10+ yrs now. They will be around for a good while longer.

[Justin]

Know any good factory self defense loads in 7.62x25 ? Magsafe makes defensive ammo in this caliber.

[telewinz]

There is a current thread asking " what firearms company would you like to own" and Hi-Point or Kel-Tec would be my choice. Anyone can make an expensive good, reliable gun, the hard part is making an inexpensive good reliable gun. They both are young but established companies that already "own" a piece of the low end consumer market. They both use cutting edge production techniques and methods and their firearms go Bang just as well as any $600 Colt, S&W, or Glock. Sounds like a winning combination to me, they can go nowhere but up. Reminds me of Bill Ruger and the "cheaply made" .22lr pistol he came out with in the 50's. :eek:

[Chris Rhines]

"Just going bang," isn't even close to enough for a defensive firearm.

- Chris

[Tropical Z]

444 said it all.

[Apple a Day]

I agree with 444 about common calibers. I love my Makarov and my PA-63 but it would be nice to go down to Wally World and be able to buy cheap ammo for them there like I do wih .22, .38Spl. , and .357 magnum.
A company that makes a rugged, inexpensive pistol in common calibers should be around for a long time. Most likely, the longer Hi-Point is around the more they will learn, the bigger the nitch they will carve out for themselves, the better their products will become. The biggest stumbling block is probably legislation rather than customer name recognition. If they are forced to bump up their costs due to gungrabber lawsuits then they will go belly up. I look forward to seeing what they will offer in 25 years.

[444]

One thing that comes up in every one of these threads is the fact that Hi-Point stuff works. We have the naysayers who bring up the fact that they are ugly or they are heavy.............. fine, don't buy one. Note that 99% of the posts on this subject don't mention reliability or accuracya or in the case of the people that actually know what they are talking about they say the work everytime. Instead most concentrate on cosmetic issues. But there is a definite need for a solid, inexpensive firearm in a real caliber.
After I tried to order mine, we were sitting around the gun shop and a couple of the guys hanging around were all laughing at the fact that I ordered one. They have some idea of what I already own and were asking me questions like, what would you say is the next cheapest gun you own now ? etc. But in the end both the dealer and the guys hanging out in there said, that they never heard of a problem with a Hi-Point. The dealer said that he has sold hundreds of them and dispite their lifetime warranty has only had one come back. When he had the one come back, he called High Point, they sent him the part and walked him through replacing it on the phone. The guy was back up and running in three days. Just before Y2K, he couldn't stock enough High Points and as far as he knows, they are all running fine. Isn't this what is important ? Or are we all so out of touch with reality and shallow that looks matter more than function ?

[MPFreeman]

Just going bang," isn't even close to enough for a defensive firearm.

This is true. Yet, it's a sight better than just going 'CLICK'.

:)

[Tropical Z]

Thank You 444-You Da Man!
Personally,to me theres nothing sweeter than shooting my Hi-Point next to bashers.When all is said and done they're SILENT.Its really nice when their $600 piece acts up and i shoot blissfully away.Hi-Points fill a MUCH needed niche and WORK!

[KeysBear]

This is my first post here. A friend of mine recommended this forum. I bought my Hi-Point carbine a couple of months ago. Shoots like a dream with some 124 grain +P Gold Dot I bought in bulk. It's ugly, but it is a lot of fun to shoot. :) No problems at all, and amazingly accurate. I feel like I've gotten $200 bucks of fun out of it already, but people will sure dump on you with their opinions about Hi-Point. I also like being able to go to the same range where I shoot my handguns. Regards, Keys

[Bowlcut]

Yea, despite the one downfall to the gun Ive yet to hear one person say they werent happy with their purchase. That one downfall is the work that is required to field strip and clean the gun. Everyone that OWNS one has usualy attested to the fact that the guns works almost 100% of the time without failure. And the once in a blue moon problem comes up...Hi-Point is quick to fix any problem and usualy throws in a spare mag for your troubles.

I kinda see Hi-Point like Craftsman tools. Any SERIOUS mechanic will talk down on the tools while sporting their Matco, Snap-On, or various other expensive tools. But you go to that old guy that works on everything, fixes whatever you bring him in a couple days, and will cut you a deal since he hasnt worked on one of those in years.....and he has Craftsman. It may not be the most applealing set but they work, and if he breaks one, he gets a new one no questions asked. Hi-Point is the working mans gun. It gets the job done at a low cost, and functions like described.

Yea they are ugly....but so am I :)

[OEF_VET]

My first handgun was a Hi-Point .380. There were four reasons I got rid of it:
1) I consider it to be too heavy and bulky for CCW
2) I wanted something a little more powerful than a .380
3) A buddy of mine was transferring to Germany and he wanted something for the wife to keep in the nightstand while he was gone
4) My budget allowed for me to upgrade at the time

I liked my Hi-Point, but I didn't love it. It filled a need for a while, and when I did have it, I carried it. Of course there are better weapons out there, but when you're a Private in the Army with a wife and kid, a Kimber just isn't normally in the budget.

Frank

[c_yeager]

I think that high point will live on as long as any other gun company. They make a DECENT product at an affordable price. They might decide to start catering to a different market like grendle (kel-tec) but, i think they will keep selling in their demographic. I say more power to them.

[KeysBear]

Bowlcut,
I thought you're just supposed to use them until they clog up and then throw them away. :D
Seriously, you're right - no fun to clean, but just talking about that little carbine makes me want to toss it in the back of the van and take it shooting today. BTW, I think I found the perfect bag for it at Bass Outdoor World, a cheapie, but a goodie. Regards, Keys

[caz223]

I guess there's no real reason that guns have to be expensive to work.
There's no real reason they have to chambered in some uber-caliber, either.
I had an epiphany recently, and it related to the amount of care given to reloading.
It's not really the gun, or the ammo. *Slaps forehead.*
Have a gun, learn to shoot it, it's the shooter, not the gun.
I never understood what that meant until a few months ago.
Keep on trucking, Tropical Z, you may make a convert out of me yet.
That being said, I don't think I'm gonna trade my H&K in for a few hi-points, just no reason to. ;)
I wonder why nobody uses hi-points for IDPA?
(Still gotta give you some grief.) ;)

[KeysBear]

Like I said about it being fun, my feeling about my HP carbine is that it's a nice cheap toy to take to the pistol range. I wouldn't want to ride a Waverunner from Fort Lauderdale to Bimini, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one because they're not seaworthy and don't sleep six people comfortably. I didn't buy the carbine for concealed carry. :D I'd use my shotgun for home defense, but so far I don't think I'd be worrying about the carbine jamming up or falling apart if I had to use it to defend my life. Did I mention that it's ugly? :D If I can get one of those uppity dealers to order it for me I'll probably get a Hi-Point pistol too for another backup, shoot at the range, or stash it away gun. Regards, Keys

[firestar]

After you plunk down your $150 (or whatever it cost you) for you Hi-Point, do you feel like you got your money's worth? Do you feel like you got a great deal? Do you feel proud and happy that you got a Hi-Point?

I'm not making fun right now, I just wonder what people really feel about their Hi-Points. Everybody mentions reliability but there are a lot of guns out there that are reliable. I had the Hi-Point carbine and I couldn't stand the thing, I sold it right away. For me, a gun has to have some pride of ownership or at least I have to feel like it is made well. You can never convince me that a Hi-Point is made well, I have seen too many of them. They may work (or not) but that doesn't mean they are any good.

I personally would much rather have a .45 ACP than a 9mm Makarov or a 7.62x25. Not if that .45 is a Hi-Point.:neener:

I don't care what you guys own or buy but this is a public forum and you never know who is listening. I just don't want some new gun owner going out and buying a Hi-Point when he could get something much better for around the same price.

[firestar]

S&W 10, CZ-52, Star B, Star Super B, CZ-70, CZ-50, Polish Tokarev, Ruger Speed, Security, Service Six, Bersa, Makarov

I have seen for sale or bought all the above guns for $150 or less at different places, gunshows, gunshops, online. It just takes a little looking. If you can't find a S&W 10 or a Makarov for $150 or less, then you are not really looking (or live in CA.).:neener:

[KeysBear]

Firestar wrote:

After you plunk down your $150 (or whatever it cost you) for you Hi-Point, do you feel like you got your money's worth? Do you feel like you got a great deal? Do you feel proud and happy that you got a Hi-Point and:
I had the Hi-Point carbine and I couldn't stand the thing, I sold it right away.
I take the "I owned it but got rid of it" comment with a grain of salt, especially from somebody who's a constant buyer and seller, as evidenced by your comment about all of the guns you've shopped prices for or bought. I know a dozen guys that own and shoot Hi-Points all the time. I have given my honest opinion here about the carbine I own, and it's true that I love it. They are cheap ugly guns that work. Might need a little oil, and a little tweaking, but they work. You can break them if you go out of your way to try, but not with normal use. If something does break or not work right, they have the best guarantee you'll ever find. Don't see why you have to warn off the newbies. As for pride of ownership? Whatever floats your boat dude, but I don't need a brand name to feel good about taking it out of the case in front of people. The pride comes when they see you shoot it, and you know they want one. Just MHO. Regards, Keys

[firestar]

I'm not a constant buyer and seller, I just keep the guns I like and get rid of the guns I don't like.

I know I would feel like I got bad info if I bought a Hi-Point because people on the net said they were good guns. They are not good guns, they are crude cheaply made guns that work. A used S&W revolver is a good gun, a Hi-Point is a rip off when compared to such guns. I have know several people who have bought Hi-Point guns and everyone of them got rid of them as soon as they could.

Hi Points are not even good guns for newbies because they are single action and you can't carry them with a round in the chamber. Bersas and S&W revovlers are good guns for newbies and they don't cost much more than a Hi-Point. If someone bought me a Hi-Point for a gift, I would punch them in the mouth.:D

[jem375]

for all of you that keep stating that you haven't seen anything bad written about the Hi-Point pistol, go over to shooters.com and look in the handguns section..........3 or 4 people there say they are a POS and jammed all the time, and they got rid of them......................

[Handy]

If you were equipping soldiers, would you rather be arming them with a $7 Sten, or a $1000 MP5?

They both do the same thing, so why do armies bother with the extra expense for a grossly more complicated weapon? Why did England shell out for the Sterling?

Is quality actually useful, even to a beauracracy? When you actually expect to have to trust a firearm, would you trust Hi-point, instead of going to the bother OR expense of getting something else?

[KeysBear]

Firestar,
From the High-Point website:
"Hi-Point has one of the lowest return/repair rates in the firearms industry."
Yes, S&W revolvers are reliable. I own a few myself. However, I'm not so sure a new buyer is going to find low priced used guns that they know are reliable, and being a newbie, can distinguish from junk. Locally, the low end used stuff is usually Rossi or Taurus. Maybe where you live the situation is different. I personally wouldn't recommend a Hi-Point pistol as my first choice for a first gun either. Would probably go for a .38 or .357 - that's the first two I bought. But, I figure it this way - if you're a newbie, and on a budget, better to have a $150 Hi-Point gun in the nightstand with a great guarantee than nothing at all, especially when compared to buying a Rossi for $250. Then maybe save your money for a better primary gun. BTW, I'm a member of the Hi-Point Yahoo group. There's a lot of folks there who would be LOL at your posts. There's a really good thread going on here right now about shotguns and snobbery. You can apply it to handguns too. I highly suggest checking it out. I wish I could buy you a Hi-Point to see what kind of a swing you have. :D Regards, Keys

[firestar]

"From the High-Point website:
"Hi-Point has one of the lowest return/repair rates in the firearms industry."


I don't know if that is true or not, it may be. I have some reasons why people don't return them though, shipping it back to the factory would cost half as much as the gun, people that buy Hi-Points may not shoot them enough (or at all) to know if they are reliable, if they bought it used, they may not know about the excellent return policy, they are probably pretty reliable. Reliability isn't everything though.

I will say this for Hi-Points, they have better grips than a Glock! I don't think they are junk, I just don't think they compare to a real gun. The main advantage of a handgun is that they are generally small and concealable, Hi-Points are about as bad as you can get for a concealed carry gun. They are HUGE and HEAVY, you can't carry a round in the chamber so they are slow to bring into action and you need two hands.

[KeysBear]

Firestar,
Looks like you're coming around. I can't wait until we can discuss some of the other guns I own. You're gonna love it. :cool: Regards, Keys

[DRC]

I'll jump in for a minute and say this:

I bought a Hi-point 45 ACP at a pawn shop as a "toss under the seat" gun. It was cheap and I expected very little from it. I called the company to get a manual on the pistol for disassembly and when I gave the guy the model number he said I had the fixed sight slide. I said yes and asked if I could get an adjustable sight slide. I was told "No, but your slide spring feels a little weak doesn't it?" I had no idea if it was or wasn't and told the gentleman so. He repeated his original question to me and said "You need to send that in so I can fix that spring for you." So I said okay all the while wondering what was up with that.

I found out what was up. I got the pistol back in "like brand new condition" with the adjustable sight slide on it. They didn't charge me a dime not even for shipping. I called to thank them and asked how reliable the pistol was. I was told very reliable (but thought that's what they say to everyone, duh.)

I hadn't put a single round through the gun prior to sending it in, but have since put somewhere around 2000 rounds through it. I've had one stove pipe (Wolf Ammo) and that's it. The pistol is accurate and comfortable to shoot. So I guess what I'm saying is that I've put enough rounds through one to tell whether they are reliable or not and I say they are. I bought one for a friend of mine and we shoot them fairly often and his has never given him a problem either. Their customer service is excellent as well so they have that going for them as well.

The guns are cheap to buy but they sure don't shoot that way. I paid $50.00 for it and wouldn't trade for it. Now so no one thinks I'm an idiot or a novice I also shoot my H&K USP 9mm, my Sig Sauer P239 40 cal, my Kahr K-40 40 cal, my Colt Gold Cup 45 ACP (combat competition mods) and my S&W 357 magnum revolver. I'm a picky shooter but I like my Hi-point.

Take care folks,

DRC