Handgun shooting through 2 sheet rocks and a 2X4? NO WAY!!


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Yohan
May 4, 2003, 12:04 AM
So, a friend of mine is convinced that a hand gun won't shoot through a wall. After some arguing, he finally decided that it would- unless the hand gun shot hits a post. He is absolutely convinced that a 9mm or a .45 even can't penetrate a 2X4 piece of wood and 2 sheet rocks. He wouldn't specify what type of ammo, mostly because he didn't know, but do any of you guys have pictures or documentation or first hand accounts of a gun going through 2 sheetrocks and a 2X4?

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Preacherman
May 4, 2003, 12:09 AM
If he's that convinced, take careful aim at a 2x4 with a couple of sheets of sheetrock on either side, and invite him to stand on the other side while you take the shot... :rolleyes:

Gordy Wesen
May 4, 2003, 12:46 AM
I had my first and last AD at home. Cor Bon 230 grain penetrated 3 layers of sheet rock and a 2x4 stud before lodging behind my Hardi Plank siding. The first sheet rock plugged the hollow point.
I have since installed a bullet proof aiming point for pulling the trigger on empty guns.

PATH
May 4, 2003, 12:49 AM
Preacherman,

You would then have to clean up the mess and drive the fella to the hospital not to mention the mess in the car! Wasn't there a Clint Eastwood movie where lClint shoots through a wall on a plane after the baddie goes behind it. The old westerns had it right when guys would shoot u through the floor of a barn or some such obstacle.

Doc
May 4, 2003, 12:51 AM
i agree with preacherman
amen:scrutiny:

At Thunder Ranch there is a corner of a sheetrock wall with rounds from 9mm to 45 ACP, bird shot and buck (or maybe a slug). They all go through sheetrock, the 2x4 is not a certainty, but I consider everything indoors to be concealment, not cover.

Yohan
May 4, 2003, 12:54 AM
Gordy, do you perhaps have a picture avaialble? If not or if you do not wish to take one, I totally understand.

Byron Quick
May 4, 2003, 12:57 AM
OK,

I have seen a 9mm Parabellum go through a piece of face molding, the width of the stud, the face molding on the other side, across the closet, through the back wall of the closet (two pieces of sheet rock, the bullet then struck the oak floor of the hallway. It gouged up an area about 3/4 inch wide and about 4 inches long before it ricocheted into the bathroom. In the bathroom it struck the aluminum tracks of the shower doors. It penetrated the first piece of aluminum. The second was deformed into the third at about a 45 degree angle. The bullet was deflected into the bathroom tile wall at this point. It did not penetrate but it did leave a circular marring of the glaze and a lead smear. The bullet was found stuck sideways in the ceiling. It was about the size and thickness of a quarter. FMJ to begin with.

Gordy Wesen
May 4, 2003, 01:10 AM
Sorry, no pictures just scars on the walls and I forgot...the closet door. It is hard to document stupidity.
It's spring. I'd recommend picking up some sheetrock, wood and targets and heading for the hills where you can set up and have some fun in an unrestricted environment. Maybe you'll find a junked car and be able to try penetration tests on the glass and doors.

sm
May 4, 2003, 02:33 AM
Oh yes they will...
I have tested various loads in various media, including 2 sheet rock and 2x4's.

I have used old farm houses and such...some of these were very well constructed... from 22lr, handgun, rifle, to shotgun loadings.
Never doubt what a 22lr from a handgun,or the 410 will do. Much less a 9mm or 45ACP -which is why I tested my carry loads in these calibers.

Marshall
May 4, 2003, 03:50 AM
Tell your friend to never be convinced of anything a bullet CANNOT do when it comes to issues regarding homes and life and death. He stands a better chance of becoming convinced of future issues.

http://beautifulskins.uhome.net/gun29.gif



;)

zahc
May 4, 2003, 08:09 AM
I know .45 hardball shoots right through a freestanding chunk of pressure treated 4x4.

AK103K
May 4, 2003, 08:20 AM
My buddy had a ND with a 2" .38, loaded with 125gr HP's. It went through an oak wall unit, through 2 sheets of the old, hard "rock board", the back of a oak kitchen chair and put a big dent in the fridge. If your going to play with firearms, reguardless of caliber, you need to be careful. :rolleyes:

By the way, you can cock a revolver with the cylinder open, and then close it in the cocked condition. Just dont try this at home with a retard for a buddy, who does it with a loaded pistol and then pulls the trigger when he's done. :)

TallPine
May 4, 2003, 08:59 AM
My "tests" show that a 22lr will penetrate about six inches into a stump.

Baba Louie
May 4, 2003, 09:47 AM
2 x 4 wall w/ sheetrock is not a bulletproof anything.

Several factors, distance from wall, perpindicular vs parallel to stud layout, thickness of gypsum bd., caliber of round... nope, definitely not a bulletproof situation.

However, I've designed several places where bulletproof type construction is required (Banks and the like)...

8" x 20 gauge steel studs at 24" o.c. w/ 1-layer 1/2" particle board each side and 1-layer 5/8" gypsum bd outside of the part. bd. Infill the 24" cavities with 3/8" pea gravel in 4' lifts up to 8' (its a pain filling the last 4' lift from above by hand). (Make sure you've got all of your electrical outlets in place before filling cavity... kinda hard to go back and cut in something)

We've also tack welded 1/2" steel plates to the public side of the teller wall steel studs.

It'll stop a .357 at point blank range. Gravel seems to soak up a lot of the energy and spread it around, then drain out the new .357" sized hole for a bit. Bullet is usually found somewhere loose in the cavity looking like a lead rock. Once, we found one that had actually stuck into the far side particle board (not a good thing).

No one was brave enough to stand in front of a steel plated wall assembly and fire off a round or two. The steel contractor said he'd seen .30 caliber holes in 3/8" steel plate, but not 1/2".

Didn't try anything larger than the .357, tho' I guess a .44 mag or centerfire rifle shooting test would probably pop right through with a lot of rock shrapnel as well.

We even tried lead-lined gypsum board (the kind they install in X-Ray exam room walls)... no good and heavy to boot. 6" studs didn't cut it either.

Stucco on the outside walls is only 7/8" thick, siding is usually less. Brick and stone are good. Not too many brick, stone or CMU walls inside a home nowadays.

You'd be surprised how many guys in the construction industry share our love of firearms, freedom and concern for their families well being through well thought out design details for the "hardening" of their homes.

Then theres always the doors and windows to think about.

Adios

Waitone
May 4, 2003, 10:23 AM
.45 ACP hardball at 35 yards will go through 2" of pine with little deformation. Diameter of entrance and exit hole is virtually the same.

TV and movies ain't reality.

Apple a Day
May 4, 2003, 11:56 AM
I recall Oleg doing a test on doors with various calibers, posting results on TFL. IIRC everything, including .22 LR went slap through.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38091&highlight=door
Someone also posted pics of an ND with a .22LR in their basement which went through a couple of walls on TFL.
Can you still do a search on TFL? I will pop over and try.

Sven
May 4, 2003, 02:00 PM
Erick: Would love to see all those photos again.

Bowlcut
May 4, 2003, 03:58 PM
Ask my shooting buddy who makes all our target stands..... I tend to destory them with my .40. I dont think we have a 2x4 frame that doesnt have atleast one hole in it from me :)

2nd Amendment
May 4, 2003, 05:33 PM
A .45 JHP will go through the horse-hair plaster, lathes, real 2x6 oak stud and back out the lathes and plaster on the other side of a 140 year old house from 10 yds. I doubt anything in the average newer construction will pose anything near that sort of obstacle.

MeekandMild
May 4, 2003, 06:07 PM
Preacherman

I don't believe I would have said that Brother. What is going to happen if some lurking moron reads that and says he's really, really convinced and then he goes out and finds some other moron to shoot at him through a flimsy wall setup? :what:

Thundercleese
May 4, 2003, 06:15 PM
Call me crazy, but I have vivid memories of drilling -multiple- 2x4's stacked with a .22LR. Stopping a 9mm? No way.

grampster
May 4, 2003, 07:18 PM
.40 cal. Federal Hydroshock

Beretta mod 9000S

4" X 4" chunk of hardwood

KAPOW!

One small neat round hole on the front side

One large splintered mishappen hole on the backside.

grampster

Ian Sean
May 4, 2003, 07:32 PM
I belonged to a gun club that had wooden framed target holders. You could buy one made out of 1X1's but I made my own using 2X4's. .38, 9mm, and .45 would blow right through a 2X4 the long way. 22 would almost always make it. This was at 25 and 50 yards.

This also is the reason that my ready gun in the house (3 kids and wifey) is a shotgun.

Standing Wolf
May 4, 2003, 09:06 PM
...a friend of mine is convinced that a hand gun won't shoot through a wall...

He's entitled to believe anything and everything he'd like, but he's mistaken.

Mikul
May 5, 2003, 12:27 PM
Every personal protection class we teach ends with with shooting pistols and shotguns through a portable interior wall. The only thing that doesn't penetrate is the shotgun wad (which goes right through one layer of drywall like a wadcutter). The cloud of smoke in the air is impressive.

braindead0
May 5, 2003, 12:34 PM
Just yesterday I shot through 3+ inches of PT pine.. was a 2x12 laid flat on a sawhorses, 125gr XTP moving at around 1800fps.

Nice clean hole, didn't measure it but it entered at probably (just a guess) a 20degree angle.

cordex
May 5, 2003, 12:59 PM
This also is the reason that my ready gun in the house (3 kids and wifey) is a shotgun.
Ever try shooting the shottie at a wall?

Anything more than a .410 out of a pistol and you'll punch through with no problem, I promise. Not that a shotgun isn't a suitable home-defense weapon for many situations, but don't assume that it is less likely than a pistol to go through a wall at distances you will encounter in most homes.

bogie
May 5, 2003, 01:06 PM
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Buddy was rehabbing, made some wall sections outta 2x4s and sheetrock.

EVERYTHING centerfire went through (we had .380 and up).

That included shots at studs.

Only thing that was reliably stopped by the 2nd piece of sheetrock was #6 and smaller shot.

cordex
May 5, 2003, 01:29 PM
Only thing that was reliably stopped by the 2nd piece of sheetrock was #6 and smaller shot.
From how far?

bogie
May 5, 2003, 02:04 PM
Oh heck... I dunno - a no-choke shotgun pattern made about a 6" hole in piece #1, but dimpled the other side. I'd guess considerably under 7 yards - we weren't all that scientific once "blastin' mode" kicked on...

Biff
May 5, 2003, 04:51 PM
My Father-in-law told me a story about .45 ACP penetration.

He was stationed with the occupation forces in Germany right after WW2. He was assigned to an MP detachment with the AAF. It seems that there was a thriving black market in the area, and one of the favored items of the thieves was the Jeep. One day some of his MPs spotted a guy as he was in the process of stealing a jeep. This jeep happened to have a steel hard top. The MPs gave chase, and the thief refused to stop, so one of the MPs pulled out his 1911 and fired one shot. The thief locked up the brakes and exited the jeep screaming. He was sure that he was a dead man. The bullet had made it through the back of the hard top, but was slowed down enough that it hit the German National in the back of the neck and then fell to the floor behind the seat. It did not even break the skin!

gun-fucious
May 5, 2003, 05:05 PM
Has anyone set up a chronygraph on the other side of the wall to see what the velocity is of a wallboard ladden 9mm hollowpoint?

A post wall, ballistic gelatin block test might be in order too.

AK103K
May 5, 2003, 05:31 PM
Has anyone set up a chronygraph on the other side of the wall to see what the velocity is of a wallboard ladden 9mm hollowpoint?
Just make sure its your buddys machine. :)

Big_R
May 5, 2003, 05:36 PM
I had one and only one AD. It was a Rossi .38 spl loaded with CCI 158 hp's. I was lowering the hammer and it slipped (thankfully pointed in a safe direction). The bullet went through the 5/8" plywood floor, diagonally through the 2X10 floor joist and took a good chunk out of a cement block in the basement. I found most of the projectile, but not all of it. I think most centerfire projectiles would have little problem going through a 2X4 and 1" of drywall. Just my .02.

Ryan

Doc
May 5, 2003, 07:33 PM
Bogie:

Did you shoot any rifle rounds?

I understand from a LEO and trainer there was an article published where .223 soft point (varmit rounds) did not penetrate the second sheet of sheetrock (i.e. the round fired did not exit the room in which it was fired).

I have unable to find this publication and have consulted experts including Sanow and Fackler without success.

The article was alledgedly a comparison of 9mm fmj from a subgun vs. .223 rem from a M-4 style entry weapon. The article was to have appeared in the LEO press.

thanks,

Doc

jmbg29
May 6, 2003, 12:31 AM
What is going to happen if some lurking moron reads that and says he's really, really convinced and then he goes out and finds some other moron to shoot at him through a flimsy wall setup?Then, thanks be to God, the herd would be one imbecile thinner.

Croyance
May 6, 2003, 03:08 AM
Why does your friend even think that sheet rock would be a factor, except to plug the hollow of a hollowpoint?
Any guy who has been at loss for words can tell you how easily a hand goes through sheet rock.

gun-fucious
May 6, 2003, 09:51 PM
the 9mm vs 5.56 data is on olympic arms site:
http://www.olyarms.com/223pen.html

the major point is the 5.56 is less lethal on exiting a wall due to the velocity dropping

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