Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Problem


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Ermac
July 21, 2006, 10:02 AM
Boy am I steaming!
I just bought the m&p in 9mm 2 days ago...had nothing but problems.
The slide would constantly lock back with rounds still in the mag and I have 2 failure to extracts. I shot 200 rounds of blazer brass and pmc.

I tried both of the magazines that came with it and about every 3 to 4 rounds, the slide would lock back. The failure to extract was probably due me limpwristing it because I constantly had to chamber a round when it locked back and was loosing some of my grip.

I called Smith and Wesson and they said they know of a problem with the slide lock....Larry (I think was his name) said they will put a new extended slide stop and test it to make sure that was the actual problem. He said the turn around was 10 business days.

I am really impressed with Smith's customer service. I really do want to like the m&p...the recoil feels like a .380 and it fits SO well in the hand. I paid $439 new (the one without the mag safety and lock) at my local Army and Navy Store.

Has anyone experienced problems like this before?

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Citadel99
July 21, 2006, 10:12 AM
I haven't heard of anyone having a problem like that. BUT, if you call S&W, they'll send you a postage paid label and fix it up for you and send it back. I know that's not what you want to hear, sending a gun in right after you buy it, but send it in and get it right. Hell, ask them to install the new slide release while they're at it.

Mark

Smurfslayer
July 21, 2006, 02:34 PM
The failure to extract was probably due me limpwristing it because I constantly had to chamber a round when it locked back and was loosing some of my grip

:scrutiny: Eject, maybe (and that is a big, big, BIG maybe). limpwristing is largely urban myth that is most often explainable by other more tangible physical causes. In the case(no pun intended) of extraction, either the extractor is working, or it isn't, and if the brass was remaining in the chamber, and it was not stuck there by a horrendously overpressure load, then that is almost certainly a bad extractor. With ejection, if the slide is short cycling the brass may not have time to clear the ejection port and get stuck, but if you have _any_ grip at all on the gun, and it doesn't fly out of your hands after you pull the trigger, you're providing enough support for the gun to cycle. This can also happen when the recoil spring is too stiff or the ammo is too weak.

As for the slide locking back, I've heard of this with other guns... I'll bet it involves parts replacement.

S&W has very good CS, they'll get it fixed.

markh
July 30, 2006, 04:31 PM
I have the exact same problem with my M&P .40. I just bought it yesterday and took it to the range today. 225 rounds of various ammo (including my duty ammo) and had the same problem with all brands. I'm pretty sure it's the weapon and doubt that you were "limp wristing" it. At first I was woundering if it was a week mag. spring, but I kind of doubt it.

I probably spent too much for mine (no child lock, but that damn mag. disconnect) with night sights it was $650.00.

I believe S&W is on to something with the M&P, but I would definately expect more from a weapon touted as a "military & police." I don't trust it enough to use as my duty weapon at this point, but would like to think that my problem is just a fluke that is easily remedied. I've had HK's that cost nearly twice as much have problems and wouldn't even think of making broad statements about HK being a poor weapon (customer service on the other hand from HK was terrible).

I am willing to give the weapon and S&W a chance. Meantime, I'll be carrying my glock 23 on duty.

Please keep us posted on your weapon and when I get a chance to contact S&W tomorrow, I'll do the same.

Coronach
July 30, 2006, 05:04 PM
Interesting. Please keep us up to date on what Smith does to fix the problems, and how the guns perform after you get them back.

Mike

gudel
July 30, 2006, 05:30 PM
heh.. I'll let you guys beta test this weapon first before I'd get one.
Work faster guys, work out the bugs! :D

Blacklabman
July 30, 2006, 05:33 PM
I 've got 800 rounds through my M&P .40.
It has been flwless with all differtent makes of ball and HP. S&W is on to something with the M&P. Mine does not have the IL, nor does it have the mag disconnect.

Your problem sounds like what was happening to my brother's XD .45ACP.
FTE's and the slide actually locking in place. It was about as unreliable as they come. It has been sent to Springfield under warranty.

markh
July 30, 2006, 05:49 PM
S&W is definately on to something with teh M&P. They remedied some of the weekneses of the Glock and XD. I like the fact that the frame rails can be replaced. I also like the fact that it doesn't have the grip safety. It looks like it can be had minus the mag disconnect and internal lock. Also from what I have read on the forums, the mag disconnect is an easy fix. My goal is to get this thing working and then use the hell out of it. I plan on keeping a fairly accurate round count and basically torture test it (ala glock, XD, HK, etc.).

I'll keep you all posted as to the performance of this pistol as well as S&W's performance with customer service.

wally
July 30, 2006, 06:28 PM
I will agree that limpwristing is a myth for feed or extraction failures but I've seen with my own eyes that it can account for ejection failures of the "stovepipe" variety where the empty is caught between the slide and barrel partway out of the port.

My sister was shooting my Beretta .25ACP Jetfire and had stovepipe after stovepipe. I couldn't believe it as it'd always been 100%. Workd fine when I shot it, so I stoot off to the side and watched her shoot again sure enough -- stovepipe. What was happening is she was so relaxed and "limp wristed" that the recoil (such as it is with a .25ACP!) caused the gun to come up and basically follow the empty and the slide would usually snatch it out of the air leading to a stovepipe. Firming up her grip cured the problem.

S&W is to be commended for letting you return the gun on their dime. So definitely call to get their account number for the free FedEx shipping. Turn-arround on my M22A was impressively quick and problem completely solved.

--wally.

markh
July 30, 2006, 06:33 PM
Glad to hear good things about S&W's customer service. I really do want to find a U.S. manufacturer that I can support (not including 1911's where I must say the U.S. rules!).

I'll be honestg, when I purchase a product--any product, customer service is as much of a factor as anything.

Jim K
July 30, 2006, 10:54 PM
Well, I pretty well know there is such a thing as limp wristing, and I can do it almost every shot if I want. Any recoil or blowback operated auto needs enough resistance to keep the gun frame from moving back with the slide.

Jim

JohnKSa
July 30, 2006, 11:19 PM
Well, I pretty well know there is such a thing as limp wristing, and I can do it almost every shot if I want.Ditto...

MassMan
July 30, 2006, 11:54 PM
Of all the companies I have dealt with, Smith & Wesson has been the best!! I own several other brands, but S&W has been the best.

swingset
July 31, 2006, 03:46 AM
I have a new M&P 9 too, but mine hasn't had any problems so far. The only bug mine had was that the mag-release was brutally hard to use when the slide was locked back - took all my hand strength to release it. I changed the angle on the notch and now it's much better but that's not a big issue really especially since the slide closes on a full mag/reload.

Great gun, overall, and with a trigger job it's heavenly.

Citadel99
July 31, 2006, 11:55 AM
swingset,

Where did you get the trigger job done?

Mark

Ermac
July 31, 2006, 01:34 PM
Kinda sorta updates -

I recieved my shipping lable last Thursday and sent it in on Friday. I called again to let them know that I mailed it. They said the average turn around was 7 to 10 days (fantastic, in my opinion).

Also, I have a friend who had to send his in for the roll pins backing out and S&W sent him a free mag...maybe I'll get lucky.

I'll keep you all posted.

raz-0
July 31, 2006, 02:36 PM
I sent mine in because my striker broke and i wanted the extended slide stop.

The slide stop, besides being extended, has a slightly different shape to the catch than the original. But it looks like it is intended to make it easier to release the slide rahter than deal with any unintended lockup.

S&W's turnaround time was good. took about 3 days to get the call tag, and if you take out holidays that intervened, was 10 days from me giving it to UPS to me getting back from UPS.

swingset
July 31, 2006, 06:43 PM
swingset,

Where did you get the trigger job done?

Mark

Did it myself. The M&P is VERY easy to improve, and Burwell gunsmithing offers trigger jobs (I hear he's very good and has low turnarounds). He was so kind as to post instructions on how to disassemble and do trigger jobs to the gun. It took me less than 2 hours to completely rework the trigger, and I've got it down to 4lbs (I wanted to stay combat safe on it) but it breaks like glass now with no creep and the reset is much better.

I like to work on things myself, and this gun is very easy to improve. If you have some punches, small files and can polish metal (I use arkansas stones and jeweler's rouge on a buffing wheel/dremel), you can do this trigger easily. Just take your time and check your work as you're working with internals.

Here's his instructions:

www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P2.htm

www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&Ptriggerjob.htm

The first link is for removing the mag safety....the second for the trigger job.

Cheers.

Coronach
August 1, 2006, 02:49 AM
OOOooooooooh!

markh
August 13, 2006, 12:55 AM
Kinda sorta updates -

I recieved my shipping lable last Thursday and sent it in on Friday. I called again to let them know that I mailed it. They said the average turn around was 7 to 10 days (fantastic, in my opinion).

Also, I have a friend who had to send his in for the roll pins backing out and S&W sent him a free mag...maybe I'll get lucky.

I'll keep you all posted.

Did you get your weapon back? If so, how does it work?

markh
August 15, 2006, 12:44 AM
I just received the shipping label from S&W over the weekend. I requested it about 10 days ago (I was warned that this was a busy time at the S&W so no problem on the wait).

I shipped it off via UPS--no problems. I also enclosed a letter requesting that the mag. disconnect be removed as this is a duty weapon and I'm not fond of the feature.

I will keep you all posted on the status of the weapon and how S&W takes care of the situation.

So far, they are about 10 steps above how HK dealt with similar issues (sent the weapon back twice at about $40.00 a pop and they never did get it quite right).

Ermac
August 16, 2006, 12:30 PM
still did not recieve it back yet
I called S&W after reading the end of this thread and guess what the customer rep said -

"We have had some of the gun techs on vacation so we have been a little backed up, I'd expect your gun to be finished in about 3 to 4 weeks"

:what:

I've sent this in over 3 weeks ago....that really sucks. I can understand that they are busy, BUT I JUST BOUGHT IT. ARGG.

Hopefully, I will get a free mag out of this (my one friend had an issue the M&P 40 and he got a free mag when they sent him his gun back). And for those of who are wondering, my response to her was "Thanks for the update and have a nice day"

I will always be respectful to people in the gun industry, considering she has my firearm.

Can a mod sticky this thread?

markh
August 17, 2006, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the update bro.

They seemed like they were busy when I called them a couple of weeks ago.

10-Ring
August 17, 2006, 02:07 AM
For me, I thoroughly clean & lube my new guns prior to their first time to the range. With this practice, I have only run into one firearm that has disappointed me its first time out and the problem was an easy fix. But for you, it sounds like S&W knew about the issue & is more than ready to make things right. It's too bad they couldn't make the fix before their product hit the market.

Ermac
September 6, 2006, 10:37 AM
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE....

I should have updated sooner, but I have bad news and I will never consider the m&p again.

I got it back about a week ago. S&W installed a new slide stop and even threw in an extra 17round magazine. The customer service is top notch!

Well, I decided to take it to the range and shoot it again. This is what I shot:

100 wally wb - 6 failures to extract and 9 shell casings got stuck in chamber
100 remington hollow point (green and white box) - 4 shells stuck in chamber
50 rounds pmc - 3 failures to extract, 2 cases got stuck in chamber

Also, the barrel showed HEAVY peening and the slide rails somehow filed down as well - it was very "rough sounding" when racking the slide. Also, on the side of the barrel near the lower right corner of the feedramp, there were pieces of metal kinda chipped off.

Overall, this gun I had was probably a lemon and it was a piece of garbage.
I took the gun to a local dealer, told him the problems, he offered me $325 for a trade in of another gun. He told me he would send it back to s&w until it came back fine - I didn't want to be out of a gun that long.

I traded the m&p in for a CZ 75 Compact (the all steel frame one) with night sites. I haven't been happier. It works great.

I hope whoever purchases an m&p doesn't have the problems I did. I'm not saying anything against s&w because their customer service was excellent.

Smurfslayer
September 6, 2006, 03:18 PM
Ermac,

Just because they were 'nice' doesn't mean you got good customer service. In fact, from the sounds of it the technician who addressed your concerns completely and totally failed to address your concerns, didn't apply any QA to your gun, and frankly didn't care. I've got a number of S&W revolvers and have had generally good experiences but your experience is atrocious.

I know you offloaded the gun, but please take the time to send them a report on this. Whomever the sub standard oxygen thief masquerading as a gunsmith was that allegedly addressed your customer concerns needs another line of work.

My few pieces of eight.

Ermac
September 6, 2006, 04:04 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, you are right.
I bought a new pistol and it didn't work..sent it back, and its even more fubar'd than before.

I thought s&w was really trying to roll these things out and make them work well...enough even to be a competitor to Glock?

Another example - my dad's work buddy bought one and had problems too...his roll pins kept backing out of the slide, it fte numersouly, and the striker broke. I don't know what he did, but he doesn't have it anymore.

Plus, look at the start of this thread...it took a decent amount of time to get it back too.

Coronach
September 6, 2006, 04:33 PM
Was that one also a 9mm? I'm keenly interested in these problems.

It seems like the 9s are having problems the 40s are not. Could they be rushing the 9 into service before it is ready? I've heard of a few such problems...nothing consistent, just odd little problems, the type of thing that makes one think of assembly errors or improper fitting, as opposed to a crappy design.

I hope it is just some teething errors, and the S&W is fixing it.

Mike

t49si83
September 6, 2006, 05:47 PM
I hope it is just some teething errors, and the S&W is fixing it.When people go to the "hope" card, it's a lost cause.

This is a good opportunity to remind people how bad american manufacturers are. I've been following this for decades, originally to TRACK the disappearance of american manufacturing.

To put it simply, americans on the whole just don't care. They don't care about designing a quality product, assembling a quality product, preventing the need for massive amounts of customer service, and needless to say, americans (ESPECIALLY overpaid, fabulous health care benefits management) don't care about PROVIDING acceptable customer service.

Americans on the whole, as part of our culture care about $$$ and convenience, and not about getting things RIGHT (let alone right the first time). Since americans generally have an f-u attitude towards a "complainer" instead of THE ACTUAL PROBLEM (just watch how bush supporters treat those who didn't vote for bush or those who have had it with bush), most american companies establish awful customer service and a high maintenance product (gee the AR15 comes to mind).

In my early 20s I worked at a factory that made a whole line of electronic products for guitarists. I began to be able to explain why american made products had CERTAIN problems that Japanese/Chinese products just didn't. There were several products we made that the company had made for many years, and the quality was fairly reliable on THOSE.

HOWEVER, when a new product was being designed, tested, in the 1st production run, or even in the first YEAR, LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!! I'm not talking about human error here. Most americans flat out DON'T CARE and even worse, refuse to work together (I'm not advocating groupthink either because that's not a solution). Everybody's trying to move up the ladder and protect their turf, and/or constantly looking forward to lunch/the end of the day/vacation/holidays etc. One time our PLANT MANAGER released a new circuit board for a new new product into production before adequate testing. We got TONS of overtime upgrading the MISdesigned circuit board, which we were forced to do in shoddy ways. One time a run of mis labeled chassis were KNOWINGLY allowed into production. A month later customers had sent piles of them back to us, and we had to fix this error the HARD way instead of when we noticed it BEFORE final assembly.

Buying a first run product from ANY manufacturer is begging for problems, but buying a first run product from an american manufacturer (that makes it in america) is throwing your $$$ away.

Since almost nothing I buy is made in america, and I haven't worked at that factory in about a decade, I forgot about the things that S&W and this thread just reminded me of. My conscious mind tells me to be surprised at S&W's failure to properly TEST the new product, but my experience says typical typical typical.

raz-0
September 6, 2006, 06:31 PM
100 wally wb - 6 failures to extract and 9 shell casings got stuck in chamber
100 remington hollow point (green and white box) - 4 shells stuck in chamber
50 rounds pmc - 3 failures to extract, 2 cases got stuck in chamber

Also, the barrel showed HEAVY peening and the slide rails somehow filed down as well - it was very "rough sounding" when racking the slide. Also, on the side of the barrel near the lower right corner of the feedramp, there were pieces of metal kinda chipped off.

How'd you get 6 FTEs, but 9 stuck shell casings?

What do you mean by filed down? The rails for the M&P are deliberately not square. They have slight curves to them. This is in theory to allow for lockup against very specific points or to give fouling a place to go depending on which S&W person you ask. What i ahve found is that powder residue gets in there and absorbs whatever lube you ahve put in place. Doesn't cause the gun to malfunction, but it does make it all gritty sounding when you ahve shot a bunch of dirty ammo through it.

Wish you had pics of the "chips" and the peening, it'd be interesting to see what you are talking about.

Myself, i'm having no issues with my .40 beyond the striker breaking initially after a LOT of dryfire. They fixed it and sent it back with a spare. I've been dry-firing it during practice, and it seems to be holding up just fine this time aorund.

As for pissing and moaning about american manufacture. I can point out to design changes in guns put out from glock, XD, IMI, EAA, Beretta, etc. That have had to do with design issues. growing pains aren't exclusive to the US domestic market. (heck, look at hyundai.. went from bucket of bolts that fell apart to fairly decent cars. Only took what? 10+ years? must be run by a bunch of lazy americans who don't give a hoot)

Ermac
September 6, 2006, 08:07 PM
I got 6 fte and 9 shell casings stuck OUT OF A 100 rounds of wally world....all seperate instances. The failure to extract occured because the spent shell casing stovepiped in between the slide and barrel. The stuck rounds in the chamber were actually STUCK in the chamber and had to be pried out using my wooden dowel that I have on hand for squib loads - think wolf ammo in an AR15 problems....

The rails were actually "grinding down" - I don't think the pistol had the proper tolerances - you could press your finger on the rail and you would actually feel "a groove" in the rail. The gun owner that I traded in too even noticed this too. It was not right because we compared it to another m&p and it did not have as pronounced "groove".

Don't take this the wrong way, I am in no way pissed of at smith and wesson - I'm just upset I got a lemon and it was taken care of the first time I sent it in.

markh
September 6, 2006, 11:18 PM
Hope I have better luck. I think the S&W is on to something with the M&P. If it doesn't come back working well, I'll just keep sending it back until it comes back "right."

It's not my only firearm, so it's no big deal for me to send it back on their dime.

I'll keep you all posted.

Smurfslayer
September 7, 2006, 09:14 AM
Stupidity is it's own reward. If S&W really wants to marginalize themselves even further, this is the way to do it.

Sorry to say this as I'm a S&W fan, but the Beretta PX4 has nowhere near this level of problems; it's of similar vintage. It's also not getting the same marketing attention too.

As I said above, it won't get any better unless significant dissatisfied customers take the time to make a complaint.

raz-0
September 7, 2006, 12:03 PM
I got 6 fte and 9 shell casings stuck OUT OF A 100 rounds of wally world....all seperate instances.

so what you are saying is that you got 15 failures to extract and 9 of them were stuck shell casings. Because i don't see how you can have a stuck shell casing without having a failure to extract.

Ermac
September 7, 2006, 12:58 PM
Well gee, I'm sorry for not wording it correctly. This is the only pistol that I had that had these problems so I'm not use to the terminology. Without being an ass, I'm sure most of the people on here could understand what I meant.

Brian Williams
September 7, 2006, 01:53 PM
That sounds more like 6 failed to eject and 9 failed to extract. Both are FTE failures, but typically they have different reasons for the failure.

swingset
September 7, 2006, 02:31 PM
While I feel bad for your problems, I do believe your case is in the very small minority. I own a 9 M&P, which has been flawless in 1000+ rounds. I belong to the M&P forums, and have never read ANY problems with the gun to the degree you had, nor have I heard of Smith's repairs being so botched.

I understand your offloading the gun, I do, but if it had been me I would have MADE smith make it right, and if I know their CS, it only would have taken one more trip back before you got a new gun.

As for the "faulty American" rant above, horsepucky. I have a whole closet of American made guns that have been stellar, flawless performers, and have experieinced NOTHING but good service from their manufacturers. Go buy your H&K, or your Steyrs, but don't try to convince me they will out last my old trusty Ruger P89, which is getting near 20,000 rounds without a single issue. It was a "first year" gun.

What's more, Most of my "lesser" American guns cost less than their Euro counterparts, and put Americans to work by their purchase.

raz-0
September 7, 2006, 03:05 PM
Well gee, I'm sorry for not wording it correctly. This is the only pistol that I had that had these problems so I'm not use to the terminology. Without being an ass, I'm sure most of the people on here could understand what I meant.

Little bit sensitive aren't you? I was attempting to calrify because initially it was unclear if you just transposed numbers or not. in the end, the reality is you had 15 failures to extract out of X rounds, which is unacceptable. The fact 9 of them stuck in the chamber definitely means it isn't technique (unlike stovepipes, which generally are), and either something is not right with the gun, or you got some out of spec ammo. I don't think that's the case in your situation.

Still would have liked pics to see if what you are talking about is normal stuff you just didn't notice earlier or didn't look right, damage, or material defect.

JesterXD40
September 9, 2006, 11:00 AM
I'd like to see that pistol in someone elses hands shooting to see if they have the problems, or stop in to a good gunsmith and have them look at it.

When sent in to Smith did you include detailed list of the problems?

Ermac
September 9, 2006, 12:43 PM
yes I did actually - the detail of the problems, how much ammo (kind and grain), even the shooting stance I explained. Plus, I talked to the s&w for a couple of minutes explaining it (I think his name is Larry?)

Ermac
September 9, 2006, 12:44 PM
raz-0 - sorry I came off a little harsh, it was a bad day for me and I am still kinda upset about this because all the other smith guns I have are flawless.

markh
September 21, 2006, 12:31 AM
Just received the M&P 40 back from the factory today. It came back with an additional magazine and the following note:

"The following characteristic (s) have been examined and adjusted to our standards:
CHARACTERISTIC DESCRIPTION

CUSTOMER COMPLAINT: DAMAGED COMPONENTS


REPAIRED: REPLACED SLIDE STOP

REPAIRED: INSPECTED/TESTED & PASSED"

I will take it out to the range tomorrow and provide an update on how the weapon worked after the repairs.

Also, as this was a duty weapon, I requested that the magazine disconnect be removed--to no avail.

markh
September 22, 2006, 12:32 AM
I took my m&p 40 to the range today. I put 100+ flawless rounds through it. It was very accurate and easy to shoot. S&W got it right this time.

yongxingfreesty
January 1, 2007, 06:58 PM
i met someone at the range who had a mp9mm

i talked to him and he said it gave him so many problems, he shot less than 50 and went to his car to get a glock 17 no problems.

persoanlly, id stay away from the mp

raz-0
January 1, 2007, 07:54 PM
i met someone at the range who had a mp9mm

i talked to him and he said it gave him so many problems, he shot less than 50 and went to his car to get a glock 17 no problems.

persoanlly, id stay away from the mp

So are you saying you met a guy with a glock saying the M&P sucked?

Cause that sounds like some reliable feedback right there.

IF you have a bunch of jams out of one batch of ammo, always assume it is the gun right?

rbernie
January 1, 2007, 09:22 PM
I met a guy the other day who knew a dude who was friends with the dad of this guy who was at the range when this other guy was overheard complaining about [insert your pistol name here] being a jammomatic POS.

I'd certainly stay away from 'em!

:rolleyes:

swingset
January 2, 2007, 05:06 PM
Don't be too harsh. Sometimes word of mouth is all we have to go on.

For instance, I heard that a group of M&P's formed a machete squad and butchered an entire town in Africa. I also heard that after killing off the entire village, the M&P's threw down Glocks in order to blame the genocide on the Austrian pistol. Particularly evil, those Smiths.

I also got an email from an M&P in Nigeria, who claimed to be a prince needing to nest some funds in my bank account. I didn't know about the whole machete death squad thing, so I gave him my account #, which he of course cleaned out. I haven't heard from him since.

rc1169
April 4, 2007, 09:19 PM
I recently bought the M&P .40 cal with night sights and Mg safety. By the way I got it at cabelas for $450. I have fired a few hundred rounds through the gun and have had no problems with it. I am a new shooter in fact this is my first handgun, beyound a 22. I am only mentioneing that I am a new shooter so that even with a most likely inproper grip in use, you can see that it has been very comfortable and reliable for me. Havent had to deal with smith and wesson customer service, and hope no tto have to. I have only put cheap range ammo FMJ through the chamber and have had no hangups, misfires, or stove pipes. I will keep you updated as I fire more rounds and exspose the gun to continued abuse.

markh
April 5, 2007, 12:37 AM
Congrats on a great purchase. You won't be disappointed.

Mortech
April 5, 2007, 01:26 AM
Had my M&P for over a year now , no hiccups or bobbles so far . Sounds like you got one of the occasional lemons all manufactireres produce .

Ala Dan
April 5, 2007, 03:53 AM
I've sold a few of the Smith M&P's in both 9m/m and .40S&W, and to date
I haven't heard of any reported problems. It could be that a bad batch of
weapons got out without the QC folks catching it; but rest assured that
S&W will gladly take care of your problem in a timely manner. ;) :D

Jiml3
April 5, 2007, 01:09 PM
Just got the latest issue of Gun Tests and they compared the S&W M&P against
a Glock 26 and another compact which I don't remember as I didn't get a chance to read the article, but they had issues with the M&P. They complained of failures to feed and gave it a "D" rating. Until now, I have only heard of good
things about the M&P and was looking forward to possibly making a purchase. I will now hold off until S&W resolves the problems. I really want to buy one as I own several of their guns and have had no problems. As far as customer service, they have been excellent.

Delobius
April 5, 2007, 02:42 PM
FWIW, I bought an M&P 9 (no magazine disconnect or lock) two weeks ago. I fired less than 100 rounds through it, but I had no problems. The trigger was just a little crunchy, but vastly better than any Glock I've tried. Also, the grip angle is much better for me.

It's my first polymer pistol - it's no Sig, but then again, I bought it as a "sport utility pistol" - something I could shoot a lot in various conditions without feeling bad about the pretty finish. :D

MythBuster
April 5, 2007, 03:06 PM
One local gun shop has sold three M&P pistols. Two had problems and were sent back. We don't know about the other one.

They claim their design is an improvement over the Glock. That is not true.

You may "like" the M&P better but it has no real world advantage.

I have carried Glocks since the late 80's and I would like to get something different. I tried the XD. They also have no real world advantage over the Glock.

I am waiting for a better gun but so far it is not out there.

TonyT
April 5, 2007, 03:07 PM
My S&W 99 has been utterly reliable and surprisingly accurate for it's short barrel length. It's as accurate as my PO18-9 and more accurate than my SPringfield 1911 in 9mm. Are you holding the grip firmly?

loplop
April 5, 2007, 03:16 PM
Just got the latest issue of Gun Tests and they compared the S&W M&P against
a Glock 26 and another compact which I don't remember as I didn't get a chance to read the article

SIG P239. A fantastic weapon for carry.

BBsteel
April 5, 2007, 03:40 PM
Just fired 300 rounds through mine today. Great gun and very accurate. The only complaint I have is that my slide doesn't always remain racked back on the last shot. I can live with this as long as the gun keeps performing. I bought it used and I myself have put about 1,000 rounds through it now without any failures except what I described above.

Coronach
April 5, 2007, 04:49 PM
You may "like" the M&P better but it has no real world advantage.Liking it is a real world advantage, when you're talking about ergonomics, pointability, trigger pull, group size, split times, etc, and not just "this design gives me warm fuzzies.". If the gun fits you better, you can shoot it better. And that is the whole point.

It's just not an improvement for you, since you're either used to the glock, or it fits you better. It most certainly is an improvement for me, though.

Mike

ront
April 5, 2007, 05:02 PM
I will also say that I shoot the M&P .40c better than I did my G27. For me, that is an improvement!

Ron

nwilliams
April 5, 2007, 05:23 PM
I purchased an M&P .40 fullsize a few months ago and after about 700 flawless rounds the mag started poping out after each shot. So I sent it back to S&W (I think I tlaked to Larry also) and they replaced the mag release, got iback about 10 days later. Since I got it back its been problem free for about 300 more rounds, so it appears they fixed the problem.

Thankfully they have a lifetime warranty on these, any future problems and I'm sending it back again and again until they give me a problem free gun. Considering how much it costs them in money and time to send a gun back and forth to a customer you'd think they'd do there best to resolve any probelms the first time. However considering it doesn't cost me anything to send it back I have no problem doing it 100 times if thats what it takes:D

I will say however in defense of S&W my M&P is one of the best shooters I've ever owned. I was never very accurate with my Glock 22 and I think the trigger is nicer on the M&P and I really like the ergonomics. I'm not sorry I bought it, not yet anyway (knock on wood):uhoh:

ohiohotboy
April 5, 2007, 05:26 PM
i also have a mp in the 40. i have only shot off about 100 rounds but haven't experinced any problems as of yet. to me it fits my hands better than a glock and i like the fact that i can change the mag release since i shoot left handed. i dont know if glocks can do that but it was a great selling point. i paid 400 out the door with 2 mags and im verry happy with it.

BHPshooter
April 5, 2007, 10:36 PM
I got 6 fte and 9 shell casings stuck OUT OF A 100 rounds of wally world....all seperate instances. The failure to extract occured because the spent shell casing stovepiped in between the slide and barrel. The stuck rounds in the chamber were actually STUCK in the chamber and had to be pried out using my wooden dowel that I have on hand for squib loads - think wolf ammo in an AR15 problems....

A little clarification goes a long way -- So you had 6 Failures to Eject (stovepipes) and 9 Failures to Extract (which probably led to double feeds)? That's an AWFUL lot of malfunctions. :uhoh:

Tangent: Just another reason I don't like the catch-all "FTE" and "FTF" acronyms... it's hard to be sure whether FTE means Failure to Extract, or Eject; With FTF you aren't sure if it's Failure to Fire, or Feed. :confused:

Anyway, I'll be interested to see if Smith can iron out their issues with the M&P.

Wes

tango3065
April 5, 2007, 10:52 PM
Not bashing but its always a good idea to not buy a new model anything until it has had a few years to see if they are any known problems.

Redhat
April 5, 2007, 11:04 PM
This is a pretty old thread isn't it?

mlandman
April 5, 2007, 11:56 PM
I have an M&P9, NIB 2 months ago, now with around 1700 rounds through it, mostly target rounds. 1200 Lawman 124gr and the rest Federal (Am. Eagle) 115 gr. I have had 1 failure to extract, no stovepipes and no FTFire or FTFeed.

We'll see...

sharpshooter9mm
May 27, 2007, 01:19 AM
Hey guys,

I just bought a S&W M&P 9mm and have fired over 700 rounds of american eagle ammo flawlessly. I love this gun it has been excellent and i have no reason to question it's reliability. One thing I would suggest to those having troubl is to clean your guns regulary and be sure to oil them properly with a good quality oil after every cleaning.

targatop
May 27, 2007, 01:46 AM
Sorry to hear about it, I'd definitely send it to S&W for a look over. Funny, I was just coming to the forum to say my M&P 9 compact has gone 400 straight rounds over three rangetrips from NIB with no failures of any kind, no jams, no problems. Guess it's the luck of the draw.

Spartacus451
May 30, 2007, 11:12 AM
Sending it back broken? Sounds like typical S&W customer service. I have a 1911 that has been back 6 times and is still marginal in function and another that has been back once and needs to go back again.

FieroCDSP
May 30, 2007, 02:24 PM
I've had my M&P 40 since november, put at least two thousand through it, and have had no issues what-so-ever. I think the main problem,initially, with the 9mm was teh extractor. I've heard of mag-catch issues, and Smith is on that, and long ago they started replacing the 9mm extractor with the 40cal's extractor. I think the general consensus is to get one with a serial of MPFxxx or later, and you'll be good to go. The probems guns in the M&P series are far and few between, so don't hate them yet.

Glockensig
May 31, 2007, 07:35 AM
Good Lord, if this were a Taurus gun having probem, the Taurus bashing gun snobs would be having a field day!!!!!!:)

Onmilo
May 31, 2007, 10:19 AM
I have remained quiet.
We have had some issues with M&P pistols, both .40s and 9s and the M&P15 rifles.
I didn't want to say anything because I suspected part of it was some of the, ah hem, customers fault.

I first saw the trend with the 1911 pistols and it seems to be getting worse now.
The Company appears to be trying to get into every conceivable market and do so with as cheaply made a product as possible.

I am beginning to lean away from this company personally and do my merry best to steer potential buyers in other directions unless they insist on this manufacturers products.

My advise to this company as a retailer is to wise up or face the possibility of not being around in ten years or less. JMHO

Oh yeah, I am really dreading the introduction of the M&P .45 auto

buzz_knox
May 31, 2007, 10:40 AM
Oh yeah, I am really dreading the introduction of the M&P .45 auto

It's been out for a bit, and is fairly well received.

Man With A Gun
May 31, 2007, 03:33 PM
Just got the M&P .45ACP and put about 200 rounds through it. These were some crappy reloads just to break it....even then it had three jams (FTF) no ejection problems and shot dead to point of aim...I am a happy man.

I shot good ammo afterwards and it feed EVERYTHING in sight.

Light, lots of BIG bullets, easy to carry, shoots great; what's not to love!

BTW, LARGE cap mags coming soon for the .45. :o

medmo
May 31, 2007, 07:48 PM
Ermac,

Sorry, it stinks getting stuck with a turd.

I have a couple of M&Ps. Originally I bought a full sized 40S&W and picked up a compact 9mm a couple of months ago. I have had no problem with either one.

I still own my Glock which is a 3rd+ generation G19 and have no plans on selling it. From the Glock's origination there have been many iterations of changes made to improve the design and make it more reliable. Even though there have been many changes to the Glock's design to solve both major and minor probems it still continued to be accepted. I even owned two of the "E" series guns that I had to send back to the factory for the frame slide rails. I didn't really enjoy the experience when dealing with their customer support. I expect the same with the M&Ps as they continue to crank them out.

My only recent experience with S&W customer support was excellent. I purchased a used 1076 10mm which I learned after buying required a couple of recall upgrades. One phone call and it was taken care of by the factory without any cost to me. That was on a pistol made a long time ago and I wasn't the original owner.

J-Dog
June 1, 2007, 12:34 AM
My friend just bought a new M&P .40 cal and every time he puts a loaded mag in the gun the slide locks forward and a round is chambered without even touching the slide release. He isn't slamming the mag into the gun or anything either, anyone else have a problem with this or know what it might be?

ront
June 1, 2007, 11:56 AM
J-Dog, I have heard of this happening before. Some people call it a good feature and like it, but if your friend does not like it, he should give S&W a call. They will take care of him.

Ron

buzz_knox
June 1, 2007, 12:10 PM
My friend just bought a new M&P .40 cal and every time he puts a loaded mag in the gun the slide locks forward and a round is chambered without even touching the slide release. He isn't slamming the mag into the gun or anything either, anyone else have a problem with this or know what it might be?

That's not uncommon with polymer framed pistols. My understanding (which could be off) is that the frame is able to flex enough that the slide stop is released. I've had it happen but I don't care for it, nor do I trust it. Doing a chamber check is essential or (preferably if you intend to use the weapon for defense) work the slide to be sure you have a round in the chamber.

residentstranger
June 11, 2007, 03:32 AM
I just bought my first pistol - M&P 9 compact and experience some failure to feeds (about 5 or 6 out of about 100 rounds) and 2 extraction problems. This happened on the first mag I put in it with FMJ standard rounds. The other mag that came with it didn't give me any problems. Another thing I noticed was the slide was not locking open after the last round was fired - when I was experiencing the problems...this seemed to start working well after about 50 rounds.

The last 50 rounds or so the gun started working properly with both mags. I'll keep firing it to see if the problem returns but am wondering if it could have been the magazine or if it's common for a new gun to need "breaking in"...or if I may have another issue altogether.

I have been renting guns at the range to try them all out and have never experienced any feed or extraction problems so I don't think it's anything I'm doing. A little concerning when it's my gun that I have experienced ALL the problems I've ever had....and those rentals include an M&P 9, XD-9, G26, SigPro, XD-40, XD-45, G17, and a bunch of others...

wally
June 11, 2007, 10:29 AM
limpwristing is largely urban myth that is most often explainable by other more tangible physical causes

I disagree. I've seen it with my own eyes.

My sister was shooting my .25ACP Beretta Jetfire, she was a total newbie to shooting. She was getting a "stovepipe" about every third shot. I only had one mag, but the gun never failed me. I loaded up a mag and had perfect function when I shot it. So I loaded up another mag full and stood off to the side while she shot.

What was happening was her grip was so light that the little gun was following the empties during recoil and the slide literally snatching them out of the air on the way forward. Most bounced of the slide but the ones that didn't stovepiped. Got her to firm up her grip and the problem went away.

Guns that eject more to the side than up are less likely to suffer this but if the hold is such that the gun in recoil trajectory follows the empty's trajectory I can see no reason it would be impossible for any auto loader. If the gun has issues that cause "weak" ejection then the propensity would be magnified.

--wally.

threadbare
June 12, 2007, 07:44 AM
M&P 9 & M&P 9c approx. 3000 rounds between the two and 100% reliability.
As far as the slide going into battery on a reload I'd consider thet a plus.

Quoheleth
June 12, 2007, 08:35 PM
I'm not trying to flame anyone's pistol preference, but was talking with my friend who serves with HPD. He said that Smith doesn't have a single pistol on the department's "Recommended" list anymore. He has moved from his old Smith .40 (I forget which model) to a Glock.

I see LOTS of +1's on these pages for M&Ps, but if a major metropolitan PD rejects it as a primary sidearm, that's telling me something :uhoh:

Quoheleth

Coronach
June 13, 2007, 07:05 AM
OK, did they just move away from S&W completely, or did they drop the M&P in particular? By that same logic, my PD has "rejected" every Glock handgun model. Does this mean that Glock is bad? I don't think so.

You gotta know why they don't allow it. Most of the time the decision is made on some other criteria than the quality of the weapon.

Mike

Quoheleth
June 13, 2007, 08:28 AM
Coronach - you're right; and I apologize for a general statement with no explanation. This guy's statement was they went away from Smith because they were concerned about the quality of firearms S&W is currently producing. In their trials at the HPD range, there were too many QC issues they perceived could/would put an officer at risk in situations. He didn't elaborate further; I assume (DANGER!) by this he meant feeding/extracting issues and not structural failure (in a combat situation, any failure is plenty dangerous, and not "just a jam"). When I see him SUnday, I'll try to get further clarification. But this didn't sound like a "we just don't like it because it's different" rejection, esp. since HPD has generally been a pro-Smith unit, recommending them for officer's to carry, as a whole.

Q

drbironhead
June 13, 2007, 10:21 AM
I have a S&W MP 9 no problems with it yet i carry it at work everyday.

johndoe1027
June 13, 2007, 10:42 AM
I hate to hear about all of the problems ya'll are having with your M&P's. Looks like they started making them a little too fast or something. Not to boast but mine (9mm compact) has eaten almost 1800 rounds (8 or 9 different types of ammo) with one bad case and a FTRTB on round #5. Most reliable gun I've ever owned (and one of the more affordable too). I will be back to read this thread again and properly address some of the ridiculous claims made here.

I think it was Mike that asked about the 9 vs 40 and from the posts at M&P forum it looks like the 9's are more reliable but I could be wrong about that.

To anyone who's reading this and considering a M&P purchase, remember that people are more likely to post bad experience than good. I just bought a Kimber against everything I've read and it is a great gun, despite what all of the negative posts say. Again, it's not been 100% like the M&P and cost a few hundred more. I would have bought a M&P45c instead if it was out yet.

FWIW (not trying to start a war, just my opinion) I would buy 10 more M&P's before I'd buy another brand polymer semi. It fits me and as Coronach said, fitment IS an advantage.

Like I said, I'll be back to this thread for sure. Some of these posts deserve a reply. :scrutiny:

johndoe1027
June 13, 2007, 10:46 AM
Oh yeah, and I've perfected the reload/RTB in one motion and I love it. Saves me a second or two when competing (still can't count well enough to do a tactical reload half the time :o ). Yes I run IPSC with my CCW against lots of 1911's and full size glocks etc. Did my own 50% trigger job in an hour in my dining room (not lighter, just smoother). One more advantage over other polymer semi's. You can work on it yourself if you wish.

axeman_g
June 13, 2007, 02:28 PM
+1 to everything johndoe said above.

I love my M&P. No problems at all. Shoots low with 115gr but perfect with 145gr. Just what I use .. the bigger bullets anyway.

Coronach
June 13, 2007, 03:00 PM
This guy's statement was they went away from Smith because they were concerned about the quality of firearms S&W is currently producing. In their trials at the HPD range, there were too many QC issues they perceived could/would put an officer at risk in situations. He didn't elaborate further; I assume (DANGER!) by this he meant feeding/extracting issues and not structural failure (in a combat situation, any failure is plenty dangerous, and not "just a jam"). When I see him SUnday, I'll try to get further clarification. But this didn't sound like a "we just don't like it because it's different" rejection, esp. since HPD has generally been a pro-Smith unit, recommending them for officer's to carry, as a whole.Odd, because this is the reverse of what my PD determined. ;) We used to field the 4506, and we were in the process of moving away from S&W because they were no longer making the 4506 and we didn't like what they were currently offering- until the M&P came along. I believe the Ordnance Unit was about to recommend shifting to the Glock 22 when S&W sent us some M&Ps. They ran the M&P through a pretty grueling test, which the M&P and Glock passed fine, but with which several other T&E pistols had difficulties.

The M&P then won on ergonomics in officer evaluations, and I'm also sure that S&W offered the city some purchase incentives in order to keep their business...but AFAIK, the decision by the T&E team was made without talking to the beancounters.

I dunno. It's working for us. I wonder if HPD's decision was made prior to the M&P coming out, or if they had some specific objection to the design?

Mike

tydephan
June 13, 2007, 03:13 PM
I wonder if HPD's decision was made prior to the M&P coming out, or if they had some specific objection to the design?

Or if there were some type of politics that came into play as well.

I've had such good luck with my M&P9, that I bought it a little play buddy - the M&P9c.

Quoheleth
June 13, 2007, 04:07 PM
I wonder if HPD's decision was made prior to the M&P coming out, or if they had some specific objection to the design?


Or if there were some type of politics that came into play as well.


You mean, police departments aren't immune from politics? <Gasp!> I am shocked <awed look>

Seriously...I dunno...good question as to "why?" On the flip side of the coin, though, I've seen several of our local constables who carry the Sigma which conventional wisdom deems one step above a piece o' junk. I'm keeping an eye out for one. It does look like $399 is the price to beat, though, on an M&P. My local Academy has it for $499, making Bud's a very significant sale price indeed.

Q

tydephan
June 13, 2007, 05:32 PM
You mean, police departments aren't immune from politics? <Gasp!> I am shocked <awed look>

I know. I know. I was heartbroken when I first found out too.

Don't worry. Your faith in humanity and civil service will soon heal. :p

I was fortunate enough to find the $399 price on M&Ps at my local Fun store yesterday. With all the free goodies, low price, and a free range pass, it was simply more than my mind could process. I think I paid for it before realizing I committed to the purchase. :D

I would be interesting in hearing details about the HPD deal. The only reason I suspected politics was because of the fact that NO S&W firearm was on the approved list. Barring details of the list, it would be hard for me to believe that none of their revolvers were reliable. Sounds like high-rank had a bad Smith experience and said "no more!"

But, admittedly, it is all conjecture.

Coronach
June 13, 2007, 10:40 PM
Yeah, it could have been a decision on something other than the merits of the design/make. Police departments- or, more specifically, the beancounters and elected officials- do that sort of thing all the time.

The other thing that could have happened is that HPD had a huge list of approved weapons and just decided to pare it down, or signed a contract with some other maker, and one of the stipulations was that the competition gets removed from the approved list.

Mike

tydephan
June 13, 2007, 10:50 PM
Good point Mike.

Now...back to the good stuff.

I've read several people say the M&P40 handles the muzzle flip of the .40S&W round better than most polymers. You may have made this comment already, but I'm curious about your thoughts.

I have a Glock 22 and I like it a good bit. But it's a generation 2 (no rail). I would trade it in, but it was my first handgun and was given to me by my dad. So, I'm considering getting a full size 40 to go along with my full size 9 and compact 9.

But I'm not going to bother if it doesn't handle the round any better than the G22.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
John

Coronach
June 13, 2007, 11:24 PM
Personally? I think the M&P handles the recoil much better than a G22. You really need to shoot one and see if it works that way for you. Most people I know who have shot both think that the M&P is better in the ergonomics/trigger/pointability departments. But some don't. It's very subjective.

And, don't trade or sell the Glock. Ever.

Mike

tydephan
June 14, 2007, 10:26 AM
And, don't trade or sell the Glock. Ever.

No worries there. It is destined to be mine. It was stolen in a home burglary last year. I was heartbroken, but it was actually found and returned!

Some guys have winchesters or old shotguns handed down. My dad gave me a Glock. :D:D:D

My range doesn't rent the 40 M&P, but at the price, I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one and see for myself. Our local shop is running the full size and compacts (excluding the 45) for $399. That's really hard for me to pass up. If I don't like it, I'll sell it.

Thanks for the comments.

delmardel
October 15, 2007, 03:34 PM
SHARPSHOOTER9MM- could you plz tell me if you've had any failures to date with your M&P? Thanks!!

delmardel
October 15, 2007, 03:38 PM
Hey guys, I'm new to this forum. I'm from Jamaica and considering a firearm for CCW. I heard good things about the M&P, but since visiting this site I heard stories from hell about failures with the 9mm version, which is my choice of ammo. Can someone plz tell me if these have been resolved by S&W? And What was/ is causing the problem? Thanks guys!!

tydephan
October 15, 2007, 04:35 PM
Del,

Welcome to The High Road.

I own three M&Ps, two of which are in 9mm (full size and compact).

I've not had a single issue with the full size unit. It has been as dependable as any gun I've ever owned. The compact had to go back to S&W due to a magazine release problem. Smith's customer service was, bar-none, the best of any company that I've experienced.

I haven't heard of many problems at all with the full size models, excluding the 45. But I've read a fair amount of discourse regarding the compact models and their problems.

You were saavy enough to find the search function, so I'm sure you have discovered the M&P Pistol forum (http://mp-pistol.com/boards/) by now as well. Lots of good information over there.

Good luck, and again, Welcome.

John

kd7nqb
October 15, 2007, 09:24 PM
I own a .40 (I know your looking at 9mm) and its been great so far.

kd7nqb
October 15, 2007, 09:28 PM
I own a .40 (I know your looking at 9mm) and its been great so far.

delmardel
October 16, 2007, 12:24 PM
Tydephan - Hey thanks, I have been looking at the M&P now since it was released. I love glocks but they make my hand hurt...lol. Well maybe that's because i fired 150 rounds in an hour.....Could it be? Or maybe it's just not comfortable at all. I have small hands.

tydephan
October 16, 2007, 08:01 PM
Lots of people complain about discomfort with Glocks. I've been fortunate enough that they don't bother me too bad.

With that being said, the M&P has, hands down, a much more comfortable grip. I have big hands, but like the small insert. Everyone's preferences are different, which is what makes the new polymer pistols so nice (i.e. you can change the palm swell to help custom fit the grip.)

Go get one. You'll not regret it.

cyncurl999
December 15, 2009, 12:58 AM
Can it be a crappy magazine design? I just took possession of my new S&W M&P 9mm tonight and I'm having a heck of a time loading the magazines ... both of them. I have a Springfield XDM 9 (well, I did until I gave it to my husband because it was too big for my hands and ordered the S&W) and the initial quality difference is very apparent. Mine is definitely the bare bones version - no firing pin indicator, no safety. BUT it fits my hand excellently - - hoping to go shoot some rounds tomorrow! Will advise, but my perception is that the magazines are substandard. FYI - I'm still pretty novice to handguns so I could be way off base.

Avenger29
December 15, 2009, 01:28 AM
Cyncurl999, mags, especially doublestack mags, are often hard to load because of the strong spring, which is necessary for reliable feeding.

I suggest that you buy a UpLULA pistol magazine loader, a very useful and affordable device that will make loading magazines a heck of a lot faster and easier.

The S&W M&P has a good magazine.

I think you will enjoy your M&P 9, they are excellent pistols.

emerson
December 15, 2009, 02:33 AM
I really like my M&P 9c. I second the UpLULA, they work great.

BULLSI
December 15, 2009, 02:18 PM
Even though this thread is old I will say another happy customer for the cz 75 compact

9MMare
December 15, 2009, 02:36 PM
Hi Cyncurl....yeah, this thread is about 3.5 yrs old and I think most of the bugs are out of the M&Ps.

I bought one and it has performed flawlessly out of the box. And it was (& is) my first gun. Have a few thousand rounds thru it now (purchased in Sept).

As for the mags, yes, brutal to load, so I bought a mag loader....forget the name, but works like a charm. I think it's just because I dont have strong hands/fingers. I imagine it takes a pretty strong spring to be reliable for thousands of rounds in a 17 round magazine.

I hope you enjoy your new pistol...I know I really like mine.

Full Metal Jacket
December 16, 2009, 07:38 AM
i actually had the same exact problem with my mp40c. the slide would lock back with rounds still in the mag.

i've sent it off to s&w 3 times for it! i haven't fired it yet since getting it back the third time, so i don't know if they managed to finally fix it or not. prob gonna sell, not cool that it took three trips back to the factory....

ckone
December 16, 2009, 01:58 PM
Sorry, been reading this thread and most everything I see points to the problems coming from the shooter with a poor shooting grip, certainly more likely than the gun considering what's been described.
Contrary to what's been said in this thread, limp-wristing is NOT a myth, a locked wrist is crucial to a recoil operated weapon functioning correctly, and limp-wristing would explain every failure to extract/eject that's been described... AND a slide locking back prematurely can only be attributed to a few areas on the pistol not working correctly, 99% of the time it's an issue with the slide-stop, the mag follower, or most often, the shooter inadvertently and unknowingly activating the slide-stop due to a poor or incorrect firing grip... The two types of problems taken together lead me to believe that it's a shooter issue first and would look there before bashing the gun, the M&P's have a very low percentage of issues but they do happen, but what's been described here, especially after going back to S&W just doesn't add up to being the pistol (the OP describing the casings as "shells", and confusion between ejection and extraction and such lead me to believe this has more to do with the indian than the arrow).

Of course it could be the gun but they're not really that complicated, sounds eerily similar to a guy I know who sent his Glock back twice before I showed him that his grip was almost an inch below the beaver-tail and his thumb was riding under and pushing up on the slide-release as he fired...

Full Metal Jacket
December 16, 2009, 02:04 PM
ckone, it's not limpwristing (at least not im my case).

here's a police officers forum where a bunch in this dept are having the same issue.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51326

ckone
December 16, 2009, 02:21 PM
ckone, it's not limpwristing (at least not im my case).

here's a police officers forum where a bunch in this dept are having the same issue.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51326

Just looked at that thread and as far as the slide locking back prematurely I'd say if it happened for everyone who shot the particular gun, the officer who mentioned a possible weak slide-lock spring could be the answer...

fastbolt
December 16, 2009, 02:37 PM
The slide stop lever springs and followers have been revised a couple of times for the M&P 40 models since the time in which those postings were done in the old linked forum thread from '06.

The usual causes for early slide stop are shooter's thumb and ammunition (fat bullet ogive which bumps the lever's tab).

It's also possible that an occasional burred condition may exist where the slide stop lever tab catches on the slide's stop notch at the very bottom of the notch. I had that happen in a M&P 40c which perplexed me quite a bit until I closely examined things under my magnifying lamp. Removal of the corresponding burred edges and dressing just the involved surfaces eliminated the problem.

Old thread revived ...

TeamPrecisionIT
January 7, 2010, 12:41 AM
Instead of starting a new thread, I will just add to this one a question:

How do you remove the extractor? It doesn't come out the back like the Glock pistols. I do not understand how it comes out because the pin that looks like it's holding it in does not budge even a little bit. I do not want to womp on it too much because I don't want to cause additional damage.

Damian

fastbolt
January 7, 2010, 01:12 AM
The 9/40/357 models use the typical S&W solid extractor pin. (The .45 uses a roll pin which was adopted in order to meet a perceived military spec when S&W was preparing to submit the M&P 45 in the anticipated, and then suspended, military pistol trials.)

They're removed top-to-bottom, but are very hard to remove. Like the 3rd gen guns, the extractor pins are installed with a press during factory fitting & assembly. Armorers have to do it the harder, old-fashioned way.

Even S&W armorers are told that it's really only recommended to remove them for repair purpose, though. Some experience is recommended, as well, since you really don't want to have the punch slip off the pin and wallow the top of the slide around the pin hole, or mangle the pin during removal or re-installation.

Usually a 'starter' punch is used to break them loose (and a 4 oz ball peen hammer), and then once freed they can be removed out the bottom of the slide with a straight stank 1/16" pin punch. (More than one armorer has 'created' an extra starter punch when bending/breaking a 1/16" Starrett pin punch. ;) )

We were told in the M&P armorer class that the pins are mostly in the slides tighter than in the traditional model 3rd gen pistols, too.

It's not easy. I know another armorer who's very experienced with removing/replacing extractor pins in 3rd gen guns, and he broke a couple of pin punches trying to break M&P extractor pins loose. I haven't had any reason to remove an extractor in a M&P except in the class, and those guns were relatively easy because of all the times the pins had been removed and re-installed by armorer students.

The pins are installed bottom-to-top, in reverse order of removal.

Did you damage an extractor? If you're not familiar with removing S&W's pinned extractors it might be best to have it done by the factory, or else by a licensed gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols.

TeamPrecisionIT
January 7, 2010, 07:15 AM
I just like to be able to do anything that needs to be done to the guns I carry with my own hands. I have gunsmiths at work that I can take it to, I just wanted to see if maybe there was a trick to it that I couldn't figure out. And no, it's not damaged in any way, I just broke down the slide yesterday and was trying to figure out the extractor removal to in a sense complete the detail strip.

Damian

Nuke8401
January 7, 2010, 07:52 AM
I switched from a Glock 34 to an M+P 9 full size about six months ago for IDPA. The slide was locking back with rounds in the gun,,,, operator error,,,,, I was used to the Glock and my big fat thumb was hitting the slide stop/release. After a few hundred rounds I was retrained. Love the M+P. No other failures so far, though I only have about 5,000 rounds through it so it’s really just getting broken in. I also did the "Burwell" trigger job, easy and a big improvement.

I guess I have been lucky over the past 40 years, when one of my guns doesn’t work it has been because either I put it together wrong or operator error.

fastbolt
January 7, 2010, 03:08 PM
If you have gunsmiths at work who are familiar with the 3rd egn S&W's, then they could show you how the extractors are removed and replaced. The method is the same, although it does seem the pins are pressed into place a bit tighter than on the 3rd gen guns.

Even S&W armorers are discouraged from 'detail stripping' the M&P pistol to the point of disassembling the sear housing blocks or removing the extractors just for cleaning, though.

Repeatedly removing & replacing the extractors in the demo guns used in the armorer class causes the pins to become loose in the slides. It's not a problem to replace the pins with new ones, but it's not a good idea to remove & replace the hardened pins so frequently that the hole in the slide becomes worn and a bit wallowed out.

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