Marylanders, Your Opinions Please?


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Spot77
July 21, 2006, 09:24 AM
If there was one Maryland gun law (no federal NFA, GCA, FOPA, etc) that you would like to see passed or repealed in the next legislative session, what would it be?

Try to contemplate the realities of it's passage, the support it might gain (with the general public and in the legislature), and the popularity of the bill so that all gun rights groups could support it and work together on it.


So if all the money we've been sending to various gun rights groups could be directed at ONE issue next session, what would you like it to be?

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Ohen Cepel
July 21, 2006, 09:28 AM
I find many of them a pain. However, I think a honest Shall Issue CCW would go a long way for me.

If I'm off track let me know and I'll sort through the others that drive me crazy:D

Spot77
July 21, 2006, 09:33 AM
Dang you're fast! You posted before I could even complete the poll!

BTW, this is just for informational purposes. I doubt any of the established gun rights groups will have their agendas altered by whatever comes of this.

So have at it. I'd love to hear what everybody is thinking these days.

MikeH
July 21, 2006, 10:25 AM
I had a hard time deciding between shall-issue CCW and loosening the transportation law. Finally voted for the latter because I think it has a better chance of going through.

K-Romulus
July 21, 2006, 10:30 AM
I voted for the CCW law because a CCW would nullify the transport law's problems (IMHO, at least).

However, the CCW law is a long shot, sad to say.

I guess in the view of the "glass-half-empty" MD politics reality, the BF repeal is the one with the best chance of passing, and would have the most positive effect for the average MD'r.

jrhines
July 21, 2006, 10:42 AM
And before you spin up, read the law:
ATF Pub 5300.5, Aug 2005
"State Laws & Published Ordinances - Firearms", 2005-26th Ed.
Maryland
page 205
Title 5. Firearms
Subtitle 1. Regulated Firearms
5-131 Handgun ID requirements
(a)Definitions

If you can't find this, PM me with your phone number and I'll call you and we'll talk. (This offer is good for Md residents only!)

jrhines
July 21, 2006, 10:51 AM
I forgot, my vote would be loosen up the transport laws. That would allow us to stop for dinner with friends after a match, stop for milk on the way home from the range, etc. Also more likely to get passed than a CCW.

K-Romulus
July 21, 2006, 11:02 AM
I guess I was thinking more of the "integrated mechanical safety device" nonsense problem rather than than BF in terms of hassle. Both are stupid.

The way I read the text of the laws on both, it seemed that if a handgun came from a factory (new or certified pre-owned/refurbished) after Jan. 1, 2002 then both laws needed to be met before it could be transferred by a dealer. But that's my non-MD-lawyer reading.

JRhines explained to me last year that the MSP are apparently being generous right now and are not seeing the laws the same way as I did when it came to "used" handguns. The current Handgun Roster Board has also been generous enough to allow the Intralock to qualify as an IMSD.

Will this generosity continue after the upcoming November state elections, or in four years after the next round of state elections? :uhoh:

MikeK
July 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
Tough choices. I went with the no confiscation. Reasoning:

CCW, much as I'd like to see it, has about zero chance of passing. If O'Malley gets in then the chances are even less and we'll be fighting to just keep any handguns or 'assault' weapons.

Stops - I do occasionally stop enroute from the range for drive-thru food, beer, gas etc. I don't worry about it and unless I did something really stupid the chances of getting caught are remote and actually being prosecuted are even slimmer. There have been discussions of this before and I don't think the wording is that strict.

Castle doctrine - Discussed before. After consulting with by attorney brother - as long as you are in fear of great harm you're OK. Not that it wouldn't be a hassle defending against the 'victim's' family.

BF - I agree with jrhines.

Spot77
July 21, 2006, 11:53 AM
I had a hard time deciding between shall-issue CCW and loosening the transportation law. Finally voted for the latter because I think it has a better chance of going through.


This is something that I REALLY wanted last year, and politics aside, it seemed like a no-brainer for a NORMAL general assembly to pass. I had good testimony on it since I'm a diabetic and NEED to stop to eat or take insulin.

As hard as I lobby for ccw, I personally would like to see the trans. laws fixed first.

Stops - I do occasionally stop enroute from the range for drive-thru food, beer, gas etc. I don't worry about it and unless I did something really stupid the chances of getting caught are remote and actually being prosecuted are even slimmer. There have been discussions of this before and I don't think the wording is that strict.


I would agree with you except for the situations beyond your control. Like if your car gets stolen with your firearms in it. I think the media would have such a field day with it that the police would have to charge you. And don't forget abut Glenn Ivey in PG County wanting the maximum penalty for EVERY crime involving a firearm.

Great points made on all choices so far.

roscoe
July 21, 2006, 12:05 PM
CCW all the way!

Norton
July 21, 2006, 12:12 PM
I put in for the transport law repeal. It's achievable in the near term and is clearly one which punishes only the lawful firearms owner. Besides.....those long rides back from the rifle ranges that also allow handguns seem to get longer and longer as I get older. I NEED to stop.....;)

Phetro
July 21, 2006, 12:18 PM
"Concealed Carry Permits"

How about CARRY PERMITS? There is more to life and liberty than concealing one's firearm in shame/fear/"tactical interests."

For that matter, how about restoring the state to the USA and getting some Vermont-style freedom?

ApexinM3
July 21, 2006, 12:25 PM
As much as I'd like to see CCW shall issue get passed, I think it has a snowballs chance in H**l. :banghead: :cuss:

So with that, I would settle for relaxed transportation laws. I don't like the idea that I can't stop by to pick up a bite to eat while on the way home. Or a six pack of beer..and maybe a cigar just to complete the BATFE circle. Come to think of it, BATFE should be a convenience store...:D

The fired casing law is easily by-passed; the weapon (if I understand correctly) is considered used & therefore not obligated to comply with BF proceedure if it is registered out-of-state first. IANAL, so before anybody quotes me on that, they may want to check up first.

one45auto
July 21, 2006, 01:29 PM
I'd like the Maryland General Assembly to put forth in law that my life is just as worthy an item to protect as a jeweler's hoard or a businessman's cash pot.

EShell
July 21, 2006, 01:39 PM
I voted CCW, since I consider it to be the critical issue.
Do another poll if you want to rate them on the basis of likelihood of being passed.

Ohen Cepel
July 21, 2006, 02:36 PM
I didn't vote on the likelihood of anything passing, but what I wanted to see changed.

If I had a permit then the transportation issue would seem to be dead. Therefore, you fix 2 stupid laws at one time.

I have less than one year left here! Starting the short-timer's calender already:evil:

Archangel
July 21, 2006, 02:42 PM
CCW.


Having the ability to actually defend myself on a daily basis trumps whatever legal protections I might get out of the other laws. You can only prosecute me for some technical offense if I'm alive to do so.

SB88LX
July 21, 2006, 09:27 PM
For the love of GOD, CCW. Statewide, no township/city exemptions.

Jim K
July 21, 2006, 09:40 PM
One45auto, the jeweler is probably a liberal who contributes to Democratic party candidates, so you better believe his life is far more important than yours.

I would like to see a repeal of the 20 round mag limit because it is the most likely to trap innocent people. I recently saw a 30 round STEN gun magazine at a yard sale. The woman in charge had no idea what it was, or that it even had anything to do with guns, yet she could have gone to prison for even offering it for sale.

Next would come the "ballistic fingerprint" law, but as soon as repeal would seem likely, the state will again frame some guy on fake "fingerprint" evidence and repeal will go down the drain.

Last, because I consider it least likely to pass, would be a shall-issue CCW law. In the same way, if it looked like having a chance, the MD anti-gun gang would hire some turkey to shoot up the town.

(I still think the "beltway snipers" were hired to put Ms. Townsend in the governor's office; the fact that it didn't work doesn't mean the antis won't try the same tactic again.)

Jim

cslinger
July 21, 2006, 09:47 PM
CCW as I hate having to unload in VA when driving home to MD. Castle doctrine was a close second though.

I fall into the sort of a Marylander bucket. :D

American By Blood
July 21, 2006, 09:55 PM
Obviously I'd like to see all of the issues tackled.

However, I had to cast my vote for CCW. I'm a Baltimoron. There's no such thing as a safe neighborhood in this town and carrying should therefore be universal among the law-abiding populace.

That said, I don't think any of the subjects will be taken on in a meaningful fashion. If O'Malley gets elected we'll be immediately placed on the defensive. He knows who butters his soda bread and he'll act accordingly. Ehrlich winning the race would mean four more years of us telling ourselves we have a governor who cares about RKBA while Wal-Mart, slots, and pretending that Baltimore's schools can be helped dominate the agenda.

DavyR
July 22, 2006, 06:19 AM
Contemplating "realities of passage" and "possible public support", I voted for Castle Doctrine. CCW would be great, but with the current crop of pols and the control Baltimore City and Montgomery Cty have over the state right now, it isn't going to happen.:banghead: At least freedom from having to defend yourself in court after physically defending yourself would be a relief, and the fingerprint thing is being ignored as too stupid. In a perfect world...

U.S.SFC_RET
July 22, 2006, 12:30 PM
Transportation laws.
There is a better way to go about this guys, convince democrats to go republicans. There has gotta be a way!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

HerrWolfe
July 22, 2006, 02:06 PM
Marylander only when visiting my daughter, and I get rather disgusted at having to remove my clips and lock them up separately from my pistols, just to satisfy the MD lawmakers who declare we don't care about your rights. I can only imagine what a native Marylander must feel. Therefore, the CCW, so reciprocity can take place, sometime/somehow.

U.S.SFC_RET
July 22, 2006, 02:14 PM
Please,Please,Please, don't get me started on the murder rate in Baltimore.:mad:
Or the Black on Black crime:mad: The total driving force of all of this nonsense:mad: Most of Marylander have nothing to do with this city but we get the sherblanging, cotton pickin Antigun laws to Deal with:mad:

EasternShore
July 22, 2006, 02:57 PM
My response is narrow minded here, since moving from PG county life has been much easier on me, most of the folks down here on the lower shore are hunters or shooters one way or another. That and the fact that the range is barely 2 miles from my house. CCW, as much as I would like to see it pass, will not happen under O'Mally and if you think Erlich is going to get re-elected in this state your nuts. That is not an accusation that anyone on this board is insane, it is a reflection of this state. Castle is not very likely under the boy wonder either, in fact no improvement in firearms right is likely. If I had to take my choice, it is for no confiscation. I think REGISTRATION IS LIKELY under O'Mally thus my vote for no confiscation.

American By Blood
July 22, 2006, 05:04 PM
I think Ehrlich has a good chance of getting re-elected. He seems quite popular outside of the Baltimore metro area. And heck, a fair amount of Baltimore's population can't be bothered to vote or is legally barred from doing so... :evil:

My bet is that Ehrlich is going to run a replay of the campaign that got him elected in the first place. He'll appeal to voters in the rest of the state by reminding them that they exist as a political force. Meanwhile, O'Malley is going to rely on Baltimore's sheer numbers, Democratic power, and his good looks to get him into office. He has no track record to run on. Would you point to Charm City during an election and say, "look what I did"?

You're right about registration under O'Malley. He's a liberal mayor who likely has national aspirations. I can see him making a name for himself by attempting to compete with CA Dems to see who can be more hoplophobic.

Rufus Pisanus
July 22, 2006, 05:32 PM
I also voted for the transportation law allowing for stops. Must-issue CCW would be nice but it will take years to get through in MD. I'd be already happy if no more stupid laws are enacted (e.g. a tighter MD "assault" rifle ban...)

Skeptic
July 22, 2006, 06:09 PM
I would love to see most (if not all) of the choices in the poll become MD law. Something tells me that the passage of each one of these will be a real fight in Annapolis.

Spot77
July 25, 2006, 07:58 AM
I thought we'd see more responses so far.

By my count there's over 120 MD THR users, with a little more than half regularly posting.


So anyway, here's my cheap attempt at a BTT :neener:

Cliff
July 25, 2006, 01:05 PM
Hey Spot,
Gave this a bit of thought. I of course would like to see CCW first and formost, but in reality getting the BS transport law loosened might be our best option.
About 3 years ago I came out of ON Target after a therapy session;) and stored & locked everything away in my toolbox in the back of my truck. I was hungry,so i pulled over to the popyes chicken for a bit to eat. Noticed 3 AA county cop cars in the parking lot. I walked in,ordered and received my food. As I walked out,the three officers who were eating walked out behind me.

One officer followed me to my truck,and asked if he could have a minute of my time. Older officer,looked like he'd been around for awhile. By then I knew what was coming,so I wanted to see how he was going to play it out. He noticed that I had come out of On Target,and was I aware of the firearm transport laws in Maryland? I said yes officer,I'm very aware of the laws,but I was hungry,the firearms were locked away,and I was getting my food to go.
He said yeah,we noticed that,meaning him and the other officers,and that he wanted to talk to me about it,rather then one of the younger officers with him who were full of piss & vinagar.
I thought about it quickly,and just let that remark go.

Didn't want to get into a pissing match with a county officer. He was cool about it,and played it pretty low keyed. We talked about 5 more minutes about what I like to shoot,and what he shoots. Turned out that he was indeed a shooter,and both of the younger officers with him were NOT shooters.:rolleyes: He gave me his card which I've now lost,and told me to have a nice day.
I don't remember his name,but my take on it was he muzzeled one of the younger officers who wanted to really push the issue about the transport law,and because the younger officer was not a shooter,he wouldn't understand the ways of a shooter.
All the above to say CCW first,but I'd put the transport laws right up there with it.

Ohen Cepel
July 25, 2006, 01:18 PM
Wouldn't a CCW permit fix the transport issue?

Yes, you have to have the permit. However, I don't see how they could still enforce the transpo law if you're allowed to carry.

However, in this place anything is possible.

Cliff
July 25, 2006, 01:21 PM
However, in this place anything is possible.

Got that right..

MikeH
July 25, 2006, 02:28 PM
About 3 years ago I came out of ON Target after a therapy session and stored & locked everything away in my toolbox in the back of my truck. I was hungry,so i pulled over to the popyes chicken for a bit to eat.

For those who don't know the geography, On Target and Popeye's are on opposite ends of a strip mall, and they share the same parking lot. Cliff didn't have to get on any public road at all.

The few times I stayed around to grab a few bytes after shooting at On Target, I put my handgun in my car, left the latter exactly where it was, and walked over to one of the joints. Would that have been in violation too?

Spot77
July 25, 2006, 02:54 PM
Cliff: DANG! You got lucky. I know a lot of AA County cops and I hope that the fella' that you encountered was one I know. Thanks for sharing the story. It's quite relevant to my situation as a diabetic where my blood sugar levels dictate when and where I stop to eat or take medicine, not the insane laws of the state.

ApexinM3
July 25, 2006, 03:13 PM
Cliff,
You lucky dog! If that had been me, my luck would have dictated I get crucified. The transport laws are pretty stiff here in MD, and I wouldn't put it past any PD department. (especially state PD) to throw the hammer down on anyone in violation.

Does anyone know if this law has actually helped? My guess is not...:banghead:

Norton
July 25, 2006, 03:43 PM
The few times I stayed around to grab a few bytes after shooting at On Target, I put my handgun in my car, left the latter exactly where it was, and walked over to one of the joints. Would that have been in violation too?

My layman's opinion would be yes because you are no longer "at the range". However, as evidenced by Cliff's story, whether you are charged has a lot to do with which officer you interact with as well as their understanding of the law.

Another MD member of THR took the time to call the Howard County Police to ask about the transport law and was told that as long as it was unloaded and in the trunk he was good to go. My response was that it would be better to hear it from the MSPP or AGG's office and that the problem was that MD's laws were so convoluted that even the police couldn't figure them out.

MikeH
July 25, 2006, 04:55 PM
The transport law definitely works, in the sense that I've been taking my handguns to the range far less times than otherwise. That should make the anti's happy. :cuss:

Live Free Or Die
July 25, 2006, 05:00 PM
I voted for loosening of transportation laws. I'd prefer CCW, of course, but I think it's too far fetched at this point.

Is there an echo in here? :)

Pushrod
July 26, 2006, 11:10 AM
I voted CCW for the same reasons as the others have.
My range is close to where I work (less than 2 miles) and I live 25 miles from the range, it would be nice to be able to go to the range right from work, so the transportation law would be a close second.

Not that I believe liberty will ever be re-established in the Soviet State of Maryland. When I get a chance to move out of this state I will. Its a shame, it is a pretty state!

madmattmd
July 27, 2006, 03:59 PM
I voted for loosening the transportation law. That seems for doable. I favor the others too and hope we can make progress on them.

Matt

JasonMD85
July 27, 2006, 06:56 PM
The few times I stayed around to grab a few bytes after shooting at On Target, I put my handgun in my car, left the latter exactly where it was, and walked over to one of the joints. Would that have been in violation too?

My layman's opinion would be yes because you are no longer "at the range". However, as evidenced by Cliff's story, whether you are charged has a lot to do with which officer you interact with as well as their understanding of the law.

Another MD member of THR took the time to call the Howard County Police to ask about the transport law and was told that as long as it was unloaded and in the trunk he was good to go. My response was that it would be better to hear it from the MSPP or AGG's office and that the problem was that MD's laws were so convoluted that even the police couldn't figure them out.


That would be me. I also took your advice Norton. Called Howard County one more time, where I was told it was Legal as long as it was stored how its supposed to be. Then we called Maryland State Trooper non emergancy line in Elkridge. The officer quickly asked WHY? DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE CARRYING ONE WHILE LISEASURLY DRIVING? before we even finished the question. He then told us it is ILLEGAL unless your going to and from blah blah blah, and that I would have a hard time saying I was coming back from the range at 2 am (it was about 7 30 pm when I called on my way to On-Target).

Now since I havent been around very long, and know nothing about MD law other than try and get to VA or PA as soon as possible, I voted for CCW. IF CCW passed, it SHOULD take care of the transport issue (assuming your concealing it on your person, and not in the trunk, than the transport might come up), and if CCW was passed, the other legislation shouldnt be hard to take care of at all once the people that left MD for their rights come back.

Sidetracking, Im currently job searching right now, so gimmie a shout if you wanna go to On-Target and meet up again Norton. I got 100 rounds sitting in my room staring at me... :p

Norton
July 27, 2006, 08:19 PM
Sidetracking, Im currently job searching right now, so gimmie a shout if you wanna go to On-Target and meet up again Norton.

I'll have to let you know. My schedule has suddenly gone to crap with getting ready for school to start. On top of the usual stuff, my curriculum supervisor wants me to do 3-4 days of instruction for the new teachers in the county. Oy....at least I get paid extra for it :D

MikeH
July 27, 2006, 11:14 PM
One reason why I voted for loosening transport laws and not CCW is that the latter usually has a higher threshold. Even with shall-issue CCW, not every shooter is going to benefit. In my case, if MD says only US citizens can pack heat, I'm still screwed until my naturalization process goes through.

Better go back memorizing my civics now. Colors of the US flag are red, white and blue ... :D

KWM
September 1, 2006, 08:30 PM
I linked over from the "It's election time in MD" thread. I voted for CCW. It may not have the best chance of passing, but it is what I would most like to see passed in MD. I live in Western Md and things are much better here than in the middle of the state, but they are starting to change here also and not for the better. Most of the MD State police are young transplants from other areas of the state and they do look for anything they can to make a name for themselves. We used to drive our pickups around with rifles hanging in the rear window, but this is not "okay" any longer. I hunt and collect firearms and am lucky to have a shooting range outside my basement door.

Helmetcase
September 2, 2006, 08:31 AM
CCW for me, as much as I'd like to see all of those laws passed.

CCW is the lever by which we move the earth, folks--it shows that law abiding gun owners can protect themselves out in society without endangering Joe Average.

Greg M
September 2, 2006, 06:11 PM
Gotta vote for CCW.

On transportation, the law doesn't say "go directly home, do not pass go". It just says that you must be on your way to or from the range... not that I'm volunteering to test that theory to its extreme.

I would definitely not recommend locking the weapons in the trunk and walking to the fast-food joint. I've heard that the bad guys will even follow your car from the range to see if you stop at the local shopping center. In any case, watch your back for the bad-guys and the piss&vinegar cops.

Greg

chaim
September 3, 2006, 03:18 PM
I don't remember what I voted for in this poll since it has been a while. Probably CCW.

On further reflection I have other 3 issues that are nearly equal to CCW in importance.

1) Yes, transport (like just about everyone else who posted). It is insane that simply stopping for gas or a restroom can potentially land us in jail. No, I don't think CCW will address this either- I don't know about you guys but when I go to the range I usually bring more than just one gun, CCW would only allow me to keep a gun or two on my person.

The next two are closely related:

2 and 3) Ballistic fingerprints and the horrid "approved list".

Ballistic fingerprinting (the shell casing law) is expensive, ineffective, and stops you and me from buying many otherwise fine handguns. NY and MD have run this "experiment" now for about 5 years and have had essentially no success. It has cost the state quite a bit of money and accomplishes nothing. Given that, we have far more than the gun rights argument and thus I think this one has a chance if we push it.

Less likely to win on, but just as reprehensible, is the approved handgun list. Many good, quality, guns aren't on that list. Removing it would give MDers more choices and with more choices it might possibly bring prices down (or at least, along with the removal of the shell casing law, it would allow us to buy new guns more easily from the net and transfer through a local FFL).

I don't know about you guys, but without these two, I'd love to be able to buy on gunbroker (now you have trouble buying new guns online since if the dealer isn't in MD or NY they probably don't have guns with shell casings). I'd love to be able to buy a new Kel-tec P32 or P3AT, but they aren't on our approved list. I'd love the new Taurus 1911 but it isn't on the MD approved list yet, and I've now heard from more than one source that Taurus is no longer shipping their guns with shell casings so once what is currently in distributors' inventories are gone, no more Taurus in MD.

The transport law definitely works, in the sense that I've been taking my handguns to the range far less times than otherwise.

Very true.

In my old job I'd be only about 5-10min from Continental Arms. Some days I really wanted to load my guns in the trunk to go shooting after work. I didn't because I didn't want to risk jail- what would have happened if my car was stolen while I'm working. Now I drive by the exit I take to go to On Target while going to and from work, though I wouldn't be able to take them in my car while at work anyway (as I understand it, Federal law would kind of frown on my having guns in the car in the parking lot of a public high school).

Jim K
September 3, 2006, 03:28 PM
The reality is that a "shall issue" CCW law seems unlikely in MD. It has served a couple of times as a balance to an AWB, since when the legslative leaders get together on guns, they tend to declare "a pox on both your houses" and don't call up any bills. Sure, I would like to see a decent CCW, change the "transport" law and get rid of the 20 round magazine limit. But I would not trade CCW for an assault weapons ban, "arsenal" licensing, home inspection or any of the other ideas that have come up. In fact, MD's current AW law was a factor in avoiding an actual AW ban. Not good but I am not optimistic that the legislature is going to turn pro-gun any time soon, so I am willing to settle for a draw.

Jim

beerslurpy
September 3, 2006, 05:16 PM
I havent lived in MD in almost 7 years, but what is wrong with the state that prevents CCW and other gun related progress?

I know that baltimore is a cesspool, but what about the rest of the state? Why are they also anti-gun?

chaim
September 3, 2006, 06:44 PM
I know that baltimore is a cesspool, but what about the rest of the state? Why are they also anti-gun?

The rest of the state isn't anti-gun. Montgomery County and PG County are as liberal as Balt City. Howard County and Baltimore County are mixed. The rest of the state is pretty conservative and pro-gun. The problem is that PG County, Mont. County and Balt. City together make up about 70% of the state's population.

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