[sm]

I don't post polls - has to do with being "restrictive". ;)

I know we have members that are not allowed lockbacks and are restricted by respective Goverments. I would appreciate and respect their input as well.

Curious to know if a Swiss Army Knife is what you use most or another Slip Joint.

If you are a rancher, farmer, dairy farmer, electrician...etc., do you use a Old Timer, or a SAK, or special knife like a Electrician's Knife, Graft knife, Pruner...etc.

Around here, I still see Rural Folks using Stockman, Trapper, Barlows, SodBusters,etc of quality make - no Third World knockoffs.

Greatest percentage use Carbon Steel like found on Queen, Henn and Rooter, OLD Case CV, Old Timers, Camilus...etc.
Add custom knives as well.

SAKs are used - depending on "job" most often one in a truck, tractor, saddlebag as backup.

If a tool is needed, they get real screwdriver, can opener [or P38 in pocket, truck...] wire cutters with wire puller, ...

The quality Slip Joint is used around here and I do mean used.


I appreciate your input.

Steve

[Fosbery]

I carry a Spyderco UK Pen Knife most of the time:

http://hellzteeth.com/reviews/Spyderco_penknife/penknife7.JPG

Although if I'm feeling a bit snoby I'll take my Loveless City Knife (by Lone Wolf) instead:

http://www.soonerstateknives.com/LW-LC12220.JPG

I also carry a SAK sometimes, usually a MiniChamp I rehandled.

I expect a UK Pen Knife would be well suited to you, but I'd also reccomend a multitool by Leatherman, Gerber etc as they have all the tools you'll ever need. Some have locking blades, but nobody will mind, I'm sure.

Also, here in the UK you can carry whatever you like as long as you have a 'good reason' to do so. If I were an electrician, then I could carry a knife suitable for that job, regardless of whether it locked or not or even if it was a fixed blade. I'm sure your jurisdiction will have a similar law, otherwise how would people cut down trees and such? :P Also, if it's on private land, then you can carry what you like.

[Boom-stick]

This should point you in the right direction

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=206555

I've also got a SAK camper usually lurking in a pocket and Leatherman Wave. If I can't sort out a minor fix with that lot then it ain't 'minor' and I'll break out the tool chest.

[sm]

Fosbey,

Nice Pictures.

Yes you were one of our UK members I was thinking of.

I am not asking in order to buy a knife . More interested in what people ACTUALLY use. :)

I had 2 Leeks and 1 Chive for instance. I won't buy another liner lock and honest, really tired of clip knives. I'll most likely use a laynard or a knife pounch that clips to pocket which lets the knife ride inside. Just how raised, and the older I get, the more I realize how older ways are still best ways.

I had a Custom Slip Joint [Pocket knife] I used for 30 years, cleaned game, fish, used in the kitchen, whittled, cut rope, boxes , for defense...everything, until stolen. Carbon steel blades scary sharp, patina, character...a real knife, and I carried and used it.


Then again have used a Victorinox Classic to clean 15 [ 3 of us at 5 trout limit ] trout that went from fingertips to shoulder [I'm a 33" sleeve btw], cleaned ducks, small game, cut leather, and used the screwdriver to tight gun screws, on vehicles, computers to name it.

I'm seeing the same thing with knives as I do with guns -

1. folks collect, I used to , still I actually used the duplicates.
2. folks buy a knife for a reason, and don't use it. they get one, then afraid of getting dirty, scratched, whatever, and buy a knockoff.
3. folks don't know how to use a knife - folks are being raised not being taught. Knives are not PC, or jurisdictions [schools to countries].
4. Marketing is driving the Market. What is being touted, is the bees knees of the hour.
5. Folks asked for and got what they wanted. Meaning. They want to give up quality for price. Knockoffs kill the sales of quality knives.
6. Folks Accept the lesser quality from former quality from a mfg. Either to meet price points, or the bean counters are trying to save a nickel here a penny there.
7. Mfgs forgot what made them. Creative marketing if you will. One company comes to mind, I grew up with this company being representative of quality for the working folks, collectible, and famous for being given to Presidents, Heads of State...
Now these are NOT the knives of the 60s and 70s. Now the creative marketing is for collectors - ironic, the true collectors do not buy the new offerings, and the young folks do not realize the quality is not - quality.
Heck, the "collectors" are made for that company by someone else. :p
Then again if you pay more for something, with a special name, get the logo, and all the paperdrill, box and all - it is better - right? :neener:

My old Camillus Camp knife, trapper, congress... with carbon steel bought for me as a kid in the 60s for instance ...don't make 'em quite like that anymore.

FWIW my aforementioned first Custom Pocket Knife was made by a gentleman in the UK. He was here in the US and I was 15 years old, I had moved up in my apprenticship, and unknowing to me, I was being questioned and queried for a Custom knife from my boss. A knife to fit me, my tasks and I would not grow out of it.
Some eight or nine months later he was back in the US and I was presented this knife. "Use it and use it hard, why I made it, and here is how to maintain it...".
Ironic thinking about that knife today being made in the UK, and carried on his person in flight over here.

The other day I carried a 1928 Colt Detective Special, 158 SWC loads of standard pressure, carried a friend's Queen Congress Whittler...not once did I feel "inferior".


Steve

[Jalexander]

Steve,

I know what you mean about the older knives being best, because although I have more than a couple of new Benchmades, I prefer to carry old slipjoints. They just feel better in my hand. When I was growing up everyone carried a Case or Schrade pocketknife, usually in a stockman pattern. My dad was kind of strange, because he always carried a trapper pattern and his favorite was a stag handled Eye Brand that he got at the Austin Gun and Knife Show back in the early eighties sometime. Carrying a German knife was considered pretty eccentric in our family, but he cleaned many a quail and castrated many a bull calf with that knife, and who am I to argue with results?

Anyway, I thought I'd include a picture of my three favorite EDC knives. The first one is a Moore Maker moose pattern, the second is a Queen canoe, and the third is a Moore Maker stockman. I just got the Queen; it's got good 1095 blades and a single backspring, so I think I'll be carrying it a lot.

James

[mp510]

The Buck 373 is a nice stockman, and works well for me. I also have various SAK's including a Spartan and Camper. I carry the Spartan frequently.

[Rupestris]

Not restricted to slippies but I do EDC 'em.

My current rotation includes a Swiss Army Soldier, Case yello Medium Stockman with CV steel and this Parker Edwards bone handled mini trapper that I picked up in a trade recently.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/medium/PE_Minitrapper2.JPG

Blades are 440 stainless but when used as a knife (as opposed to a screwdriver, pry bar, etc.) it works great. Fit and Finish is beautiful. Half stops are spot on, and it snaps with the best of 'em. Circa 1986.

[sm]

:D

Jalexander,

About that background for your pic...You have the complete works of Robert Johnson! :cool: Charlie Musclewhite's new album [forget name] is good!

Knives; oh yeah thems what are I am referring too - a real crafted work of art, with great metallurgy, and materials, that perform!

Rupestris,

Trappers are one pattern I carried quite a bit, and I know for a fact, they will stop an immediate threat.

Buck knives - I just never warmed up to them. The 110s did not feel right in my hands, my hands felt best using a Case Mako Shark. Some used the Shrade verson of the 110, again a bit big for me.

That is another thing, used to be leather work was great for sheaths and even the inside pocket sheaths [one did IWB with these as well]. Leatherwork gave way to Ballistic Nylon, and other man made materials. Leatherwork went South for a bit - except for custom work - then thankfully quality leatherwork came back.

Though I am in the same state as Arkansas stones, never cared for them.
I apprenticed using carbon steel tools - Swiss, German , USA etc. The AR stones are not consistent in grit, too soft, and wore too fast.

Norton Stones always held up, and some I used were older than me. I also used Norton "slips" for precison work on what I did as well.

Anyone remember Ring Knives? These are so cool!

[Rupestris]

Anyone remember Ring Knives? These are so cool!
Steve. Funny you should ask. Over on BladeForums.com in their traditional knives forum they are putting together a group buy/BFC limited run of ring knives from Canal Street (former Shrade employees). Its a beautiful offering but just not what I'm looking for right now.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56294&d=1148806572

Canal Street will be offering this model in their standard line in the near future so you can pick up a non-forum version.

I'm not a real big Buck fan either. I really have a soft spot for the older Imperial Frontier knives and the traditional Schrade offerings with the saw-cut Delrin slabs.

[Jalexander]

About that background for your pic...You have the complete works of Robert Johnson! Charlie Musclewhite's new album [forget name] is good!

Knives; oh yeah thems what are I am referring too - a real crafted work of art, with great metallurgy, and materials, that perform!

Steve,

I have Robert Johnson, Elmore James, Lightnin' Hopkins, Roger Miller, Tom T. Hall, Johnny Cash... The list goes on. Near as I can figure (because I'm sure not gonna count 'em), we have better than 1100 CDs of all kinds of music taking up space in our living room.

Now, back on topic... I really prefer carbon steel for my EDC slippies because in my experience it just holds a better edge and is easier to touch up than any stainless I've ever used. That's not to say that I don't own any stainless knives, I just don't EDC any of them. I'm including another picture of my slipjoint collection that was current as of this time last year. I've added a couple since then, but it'll give you an idea of what my dear wife puts up with.

I see Rupestris just beat me to the picture of the Canal Street ring knife. I'm having a real hard time talking myself out of getting in on that deal.

James

[TrapperReady]

Steve - My dad carried a Case Electrician's model for most of his life. I've still got it. I also have a yellow-handled Trapper, some SAKs and some Schrade Old Timers. The Old Timers I have on hand to give out to kids on special occasions.

I still carry a SAK (I think a Camper model) on a daily basis... but I will admit that I also carry a Benchmade (one-handed opening, pocket clip, *gasp* black) which gets used many times every day. Occasionally, I'll experience some nostalgia and replace the Benchmade with my dad's old knife, or with my Trapper. It never lasts for more than a couple days. I just like being able to grab my knife (clipped to the top of my pocket... not digging around for it with my keys and loose change), open it, use it, close it and return it to my pocket quickly and with one hand.

The SAK is used alsmot exclusively for its additional tools, not the knife blades. I actually prefer a Leatherman-type tool (and I own several), but the SAK is just plain easier to carry in a pocket.

I will admit that the Trapper does do an excellent job when cleaning birds, and when carving a slingshot I will only use a slipjoint. Anything else just seems wrong. :)

[Third_Rail]

Not to get too OT, but what use is a ring knife? I've seen them before, but always assumed "gimmick".

[sm]

Third Rail,

I tried to find the pics of these at Knifeforums for you and could not find. I'm no a registered member at a knife forum , so doing searches is a bit tough.

Ring Knives instead of a nail mark, are opened by twisting a small "ring" . As the ring is turned, the blade opens, and when turned opposite, closes.

Imagine the rivet that secures the blade, is extended a bit and a small jump ring runs thru it. Turn this as one would a wind up a clock if you will.

Pretty cool!

Well as stated , not being a registerd member of a knife forum, and for some reason I peruse http://knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/30/fp/75/ being as it is a bit easier to navigate - though I cannot do searches.
I have perused Bladeforums...but I have to scroll a lot more . :p


Interesting converstation the other day, with the Internet , more folks are aware of "clippy knives" and all things "tactical".

Surprised me somewhat - I thought everyone was busy hugging trees between American Idiot shows...

Seeing a "clip" on a pocket means to a sheeple "oh my, tactical is bad!" and to some having a knockoff clip knife is to give the perception of having the money to have the more expensive, tactical knife for bragging rights, cool factor and whatnot.

Same with Guns. If a gun uses a "clip" or "mag" , is black, it is more awful and devastating than a wood and blue gun - even if the wood and blue is a bigger caliber!

Perceptions, and Media Hype are aquaiting "clippy knives" with "locking features" as more evil.

I mean a black $3 knockoff with beer can steel for blades is "percieved" more evil than a $5 Old Hickory Butcher knife or $15 Opinel...from France no less. :D

Pull out a Yellow Handled Case Trapper with patina on the Vandium Blades and sheeple are not intimidated - instead - "hey my grandpa / uncle/ or "Aunt Susie used one of them when canning..."

SAKs are great knives - also more PC.

UK with its problems and with the Internet, makes me wonder if folks are going to be more prone to take note of folks here in the US , and elswhere.

I mean a person with a good pocket knife / slipjoint, a wood and blue shotgun, handgun ( especially revolver) and lever action/ bolt action rifle is ...well..."normal".
A 4" to 6" Rapela fillet knife is...normal fishing stuff...


The folks I watch and want on my side are the ones that just blend in, no indication of anything...I know quite a few...I have met some of THR folks this way.

[Third_Rail]

Ohh, okay... I thought you meant the ring knives as in the kind that were a small blade on a ring for twine/etc. If you were saying those for EDC, I was thinking gimmick.

[loandr.]

Only fixed , never a folder and like em small :)

[Third_Rail]

loandr. - nice collection! What are those knives that look like a short blade attached to a carabiner? I know I've seen them somewhere else.

[Rupestris]

Third Rail, If I'm not mistaken, the idea behind the ring knife is to offer a folding pocket knife that people with disabilities can open with less dexterity or no finger nails. The story is that they really took off after the American Civil War because of the number of Americans that lost fingers or partial use of their hands.

With practice one could open the knife one handed. THats why both rings are not on the same side (IIRC).

[loandr.]

all 4 are Hideaways sir and of intergal(1 piece) design, no carabiner :-)

[Griff]

I was advised a while back to carry 2 knives:
1 to use for utility (and around sheeple) and 1 for goblin and other critter cutting (heaven forbid.)
Most times it's a happy little SAK Classic or Spartan and an evil, black 4" Benchmade or Cold Steel thumb-stud opener.
I've also got a Leatherman Squirt on my keychain for the pliers; right tool for the job and all that. Few things make me cringe like watching somebody use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver, y'know?

[sm]

like watching somebody use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver, y'know?

I am going to respectfully disagree - to a degree.

A lady can take a 10 cent butter knife bought at a garage sale and do more with it than a man can with a workshop full of toolboxes and tools - and fix it quicker.

Open a box, tighten a radiator hose clamp, tighten a wall plate, handle on a cabinet, get shrink wrap undone, chip ice...

I mean by the time the guy gets back with "the right tool" - a lady has already fixed the problem, cooked supper, done 3 loads of clothes, reloaded 4 boxes of ammo and cleaned 3 guns.

Now the guy has got to spend another hour wiping off a tool he did not use, and get the tool just so so back in the correct tool chest.



:)

[Griff]

Yes, Dear. (smiley thingy) No, really; I AM listening...yes...um hmmm....and your Mother did what?...how awful...um, no; I mean wonderful for her...um hmmmm...no, I don't want something a little more "Puce" for dinner this time...yes...yes....

[hso]

I know we have members that are not allowed lockbacks

Not quite correct. Our UK members should speak up, but my understanding is that fixed blades and lockblades are legal to own and carry in the UK within "reasonableness" limitations that are ill defined. From a functional standpoint I can't comment since ruining a fellow with legal entanglements certainly will drive the law-abiding to aviod such entanglements by ditching anything that they are told will get them in trouble.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8336

Q: What is the legal definition of a lock knife?
A: A Crown Court case (Harris v DPP), saw an entheusiastic lawyer convincing a judge that a lock knife was eqivalent to a fixed blade knife when the lock was engaged. Even though it has not been defined in a parliamentary act, it has never been overturned or superceeded and so is effective law (case law). A lock knife for all legal purposes, is the same as a fixed blade knife. A folding pocket knife must be readily foldable at all times. If it has a mechanism that prevents folding, it's a lock knife (or for legal purposes, a fixed blade)!

In theory, case law can be overturned by a more senior judge or court. The Harris ruling has been tested in a more senior court, namely the Court of Appeal - the highest court in the UK before parliament. The case of REGINA - v - DESMOND GARCIA DEEGAN, Court of Appeal 1998, upheld the Harris ruling stating that "folding was held to mean non-locking". No leave to appeal was granted. This is significant, since the Harris ruling was upheld in the Court of Appeal by Deegan, ALL COURTS MUST now adhere to the ruling. Following the Deegan deecision, the only way the Harris ruling can be overturned is through a parliamentary act.

Q: Are lock knives illegal to own?
A: No! You can quite legally buy, make, sell, import or gift a lock knife. It is perfectly legal to own and use a lock kinfe on your own property, or on private property where you have the landowners permission. It is, however, ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife in a public place, unless you have a good reason to do so.

Q: Are fixed blade knives illegal to own?
A: No!

Q: Are kitchen knives illegal to own?
A: No!

Q: Can I carry a lock knife (or a fixed blade knife) in a public place just because I feel like it?
A: No, it is ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife in a public place without a good reason.

Q: Can I carry a lock knife in a public place if I have a good reason?
A: Yes.

Q: Can I carry a fixed blade (sheath) knife in a public place if I have a good reason?
A: Yes.

Q: What constitutes a reasonable reason?

A: According to section 139, subsections 4&5 of the 1988 Criminal justice Act....
(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
for use at work;
for religious reasons; or
as part of any national costume.
Q: Are there any other reasonable reasons?
A: Yes. What constitutes a reasonable reason is a matter for common sense, the police and the courts. There is no exhaustable list defined in law. If you think you have a reasonable reason and a police officer disagrees, it'll be up to the courts to decide your fate.

Q: Is "self defence" a reasonable reason?
A: Absolutely not! If you are carrying a knife for self defence, by definition you are carrying the knife as a weapon. Not only are you guilty of carrying a bladed article, contrary to s139 of the 1988 Criminal Justice Act, but you are also guilty of the more serious offence of carrying an offensive weapon.

Q: What is the penalty for carrying a lock knife in public, without a reasonable reason?
A: According to section 139, subsections 6 (a) & (b) of the 1988 Criminal Justice Act:
(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable
on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;
on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both.
Q: What constitutes a public place?
A: Section 139, subsection 7 of the 1988 Criminal Justice Act, defines it as:
(7) In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.
Q: Can I keep a locking knife in the glove compartment of my car, just because I feel like it?
A: No! Your car is defined by law as a public place. There is no legal difference (for the purpose discussed here) between your car and the pavement outside your local cinema. A car is not a piece of land and is therefore not private property uinless it's parked on private property. Think of it as luggage. Think of a parked car as left luggage.

Q: Are there any knives I can carry in public in the UK, just because I feel like it?
A: Yes.

Q: What kind of knife can I carry in a public place without a reasonable reason?
A: The knife must have a cutting edge of no more than 3 inches and must not have a lock of any kind.
For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife (Harris v DPP [1993] 1 All ER 562); followed in R v Deegan [1998] Crim LR 562,[1998] 2 Cr App Rep 121. The section applies to articles which have a blade or are sharply pointed, falling into the same broad category as a knife or sharply pointed instrument;

[mole]

When I was in high school in the mid and late 90's I carried a tiny utility knife. It was a key chain that was just a scaled down version of a regular utility knife with a blade maybe over 1/4". It would have been hard to argue that it was a weapon. Knives were illegal in GA schools then.

While at work and elsewhere I carried an Old Timer with ~3 blade. It was my first knife. I bought it when I was 8 without my parents permission, and my parents probably thought I was too young to carry one. I figured a way out of getting in trouble though. I bought two identical ones with the money I saved. One for me and one for my dad so we would have matching knives. What father could then take away his son's knife after such a display of affection?:evil: He was so proud that it still sits in it's box in the center of his office library today. I lost mine a about two years ago. I believe that it was the best cutting knife I have ever used. Too bad they went under.

I now carry an older Gerber E-Z-Out. I friend bought it, used it, and couldn't sharpen it so I ended up with it. It's a little big in the pocket, but it's partially serrated 3.25" blade has done a decent job on everything.

[Third_Rail]

How are these (http://www2.agrussell.com/content/advancedsearch/?SearchText=opinel&SearchSectionID=1&search=Search) Opinel knives? I've always wanted a "less dangerous" looking knife, and they sure are nice looking...

[sm]

hso,

Where you been? :)

Last paragraph you posted with answer to :
"Q: What kind of knife can I carry in a public place without a reasonable reason?".

Concerns me in the regard of the "dumbing down" of people and governments.

Stereotyping occurs whether we like to admit it or not. Human instinct to "attach" certain responses to stimuli.

The UK has "dumbed down" the ability for one to be offensive in being self reliant in taking defensive measures.

Be it Guns, defending oneself, now edged tools.

The US and UN are also stereotyping "things" to brainwash and indoctrinate folks.

Stated before, a black gun is more evil than a wood and blue one.

Part of me sometimes feels responsible firearm owners do more harm to themselves than gun grabbers and politicians do. Not long one of our own was treated bad by another RKBA group.

Edged Weapons.

I grew up in a setting where pride of ownership, collection, appreciation of the artist's craft was what we did.

I had special smooth jawed needle nosed pliers that I paid $75 for , yes they were needed because what used on might be valued at $50k.
I appreciate having the correct tool for the job. I made many of my own- as we that did the work did.

Burs. Well I had reserved sets special made only once a year. When these were off the line, I rec'd mine, and they were pricey.

So I know how a lot about using a fine tool for task.

Concerned about :

-Folks doing harm by "portraying" or giving MSM something to Stereotype us with.

-Losing the old skills, teachings , craftsmanship - and no one to pass these forward.

-Folks "buying skill and targets" - meaning instead of having a correct basic fundamental of how to use a knive , defensive or otherwise, on can simply "buy" what needed.

Folks buy cars with stickers and are Mario Andrettis, Buy a Brand "[ ]" firearm and once instanly becomes the next Rudy Etchen, Elmer Keith, Jordan, Leatherman...

Tactical has been the buzzword for marketing and I get concerned the definition will work against US and other places making anything that does fit a government definition - not available , or more difficult as has happened to the UK.

Granted I do not give one whit what folks think, much less the Gov't. I do give a whit when some go overboard , breath my air doing so, and gets the attention of the Gov't to re-define something to better control me.

Boxcutters is a good example, but now TSA has put a negative spin on nail clippers! Asking for Sudaphed will get you "bad looks".

I can go into some stores and the sheeple cringe if I look at ammo, the guns, the knife display, and this is Gander Mtn or Academy Sports.

I go into some grocery stores to get "legal" Sudaphed , not requiring me to sign or show DL, lighter fluid, and matches, I can still get "negative looks"

Farm and Feed Stores and Mom&Pop hardware stores - totally different attitude. All sorts of stuff I see on displays - like a box cutter I can touch and not be behind the counter, chemicals, ammo, knives, axes, rope, and the lady is making a hangman's noose kidding about her husband better not forget her birthday and her wanting a new bolt rifle.

The fellow shares how he used his Trapper to stop a possible attack in the big city...

Pocketknives come out and lessons shared. Then the contest as to whom can make a "apple chain" the best and fastest.

These ladies and gents, can use a "legal" definition edged weapon we call a slip joint or pocketknife to do so.

The lady was fast with her knife and had some great tips to share. Single blade Trapper her EDC.

[pete f]

I carry a buck odyssey. every where, feel naked without it. it is a tool.

A working knife is a tool like a pen, my watch, it allows me to open things, mark lengths of wood to a very fine amount, a pencil leaves about a .040 line on wood, a sharp knive leaves about an .008 line. And yes that is enough difference to make it matter in what I do.

A sharp knife is a life saving tool as well, I have twice had to cut myself free from sinking boats. I have cut my hand free once from getting a piece of sheet steel snag it on a commercial exterior. (no other way to get my hand off, working all alone on installing new windows)

There are good knifes available today that mean the old slip joint folder is really obsolete. After seeing what an old but sharp Sod Buster did to my father in law after a billy goat started thrashing in the pen and some how managed to get the knife to snap closed on his kuckles, i will never use a slip joint again.

[Matt_W]

Hi hso your assessment of the UK legislation is spot on, your understanding is better than lots of us who live here.

The only point I would add is that any person may carry a weapon for self defence if they have lawful authority or a reasonable excuse.

For example there was a person who ran out into the street to confront a group of men who were smashing his windows armed with an ASP type baton recently and he was found to have had a reasonable excuse. He also had lawful authority as he was performing the function of a Constable in the absence of the Police to prevent a Breach of the Queen's peace.

Lawful authority covers the Police but it also extends to the everyday citizens who have a duty to prevent breaches of the Queen's peace and can cite the English Bill of Rights because as every Law Student knows we do not have a higher form of lawful authority in the UK than an Act of Parliament!

When I need to carry a knife I carry a CS Gunsite II or a CS Ti-Lite because I like the additional safety of a locking blade. I also carry a Swiss Army knife for the scissors.

[Fred Fuller]

Steve,

I have no use any more for a knife I can't open with one hand, so that leaves out the more traditional style multibladed folders for me. And there's generally no issue with locking blade folders here in NC, long as blades are under 4" (except of course in schools). I've carried the same two knives for a good many years now- a Benchmade AFCK (small) clipped in the right front pants pocket and a little Spyderco Dragonfly among the pocket change, nail clippers, ChapStick and the spare magazine for my CCW (in a nylon pouch) in the left. The Benchmade is reserved for nonutilitarian dutues, the Spyderco does all the work.

I told you about stopping by Smoky Mountain Knife Works' new store just off I-40 on the way home from Pigeon Forge last week- The Good Doctor bought herself a Dragonfly too, to go along with the new yellow- handled Salt I she also picked out at the same time. She was always impressed at how I field dressed then hung, skinned and butchered out her first deer with the Dragonfly and she latched onto one for herself. I had told her I wasn't buying any more Spydercos for her to seed the place with and gave her a pair of Kabar/Dozier lockback folders instead (she carries a folder on each side also). Well, she didn't like me telling her that she could lose a $20 knife just as well as she could a $50 knife, and went and bought her own first chance she got. Interestingly enough she managed to keep up with both of the Kabars for almost two years. We'll see how the Spydercos hold out...

lpl/nc

[Fosbery]

Yes, pretty much spot on.

Carrying a knife 'in case I get attacked' is illegal, as self-defence is not considered a good reason in a court of law, and also because you would be carrying the knife as a weapon and it would be an offensive weapon to boot.

However, you can carry a knife for self-defence for a specific reason. If your car is parked up the road and someone is breaking into it, it would be legal to take a knife with you when confronting the person breaking into it as you are attending a breach of the peace, to restore the Queen's peace, and thus have the lawful authority of a Constable. This also applies to any weapon.

When I need to carry a knife for a reason, well it depends on the reason. When shooting I take a Leatherman Wave, when out in the woods I use a custom Woodlore clone and sometimes take a Laplander saw or a machete in my rucksack as well as cutlery for preparing and eating food of course. If I'm going to Ikea or something like that, I'll take my Emerson CQC-7.

But when just out and about with no specific reason, I carry a UKPK or a Loveless City knife and sometimes a SAK. Around the house I carry an Applegate Fairbairn.

[Third_Rail]

Knives are illegal in schools?


Ought to tell my teachers, the other students, the program director, etc. at my school. :D


It's odd to see someone without at least a little $5 jackknife. A couple of people have really nice EDC pieces, too - one gent has a Lone Wolf folder, though I don't like the liner lock.

[Jalexander]

There are good knifes available today that mean the old slip joint folder is really obsolete. After seeing what an old but sharp Sod Buster did to my father in law after a billy goat started thrashing in the pen and some how managed to get the knife to snap closed on his kuckles, i will never use a slip joint again.

I've seen the same thing happen, Pete, but I don't think that that means slipjoints are obsolete. As I said earlier in this thread, my dad castrated many bull calves with an Eye Brand trapper, as well as ear-marking them, opening abscesses, and many other things. However, when I'm working around animals I used a fixed blade, specifically a Bark River Mini-Canadian; it sharpens up well, and with the micarta handle and the blade shape I can choke up on it so it just won't slip. I still carry one of my many slipjoints and use them for things that they're good for, like whittling, cutting food, and making cuts when I don't want to scare the sheeple.

Steve and others have referred to the fact that slipjoints are less intimidating to the 'sheeple', which is nothing but the truth. I carry slipjoints is because I like them better than the various one-handed opening folders; they're less obtrusive, with multiple blades each blade can have a different sharpness, and for the most part I just think that they look nicer. I think that carrying a slipjoint is just another expression of something we all believe in, which is to choose the right tool for the right job. My Benchmade 710 has its place, but so does my Moore Maker stockman. In my opinion, as long as slipjoints do the job that they were meant to do they'll never be obsolete.

James

[Fosbery]

I would never use slipjoints if the law allowed it, I'm not going to risk a knife closing on my fingers or breaking altogether in a tough job. The only reason I sometimes use slipjoints is because I can't carry a lock knife whenever I want. You can get lock knives which look like tradition slip joints, but to be honest I'm not a huge fan of the old slipjoint look. I much prefer the traditional Scandinavian or English buschraft look (and some of the modern 'tactical' knives don't look too bad either).

[sm]

All this Non Tactical is probably me.

It is said: one cannot change people places and things - the only thing a person can do is change themselves. *

Additonally : Acceptance is the key.*

* Yes those comes straight out of the playbook for 12 Steps, I have been sober since '84.

Now for a lot of living problems - as those of us have , and quit doing what made matters worse, great!

Being the hard-headed Southern Boy I am , how raised - I still got a problem with these When it comes to Gubmint Meddlin' and Tyranny.

Sorry Mr. Bill - I ain't gonna change me by accepting Tryanny.

I may have been a practicing drunk once - even then I would not, and for darn sure being a sober not gonna do it.

So I have had this feeling for a some time, even before I got involved in Internet Forums , about Living Life and what all one does to Function in Activities of Daily Living [ADLs].

The time I was born, Mentors, Elders, Life Experiences all shape MY belief systems.

Strategy was how one went about doing something.

Tactics ways and means of carrying out a task.

Understand at this time Catch-22 was not part of our language because the Book by Joseph Heller was not written until 1961, and the Movie until 1970.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22

I was born in 1955. My point being language changes.

--

[sm]

Great thing about coming up poor :

- better enforces the idea to learn the correct basic fundamentals.
- learn how the brain is always with you, so train the brain
- one learns by mistakes - just a whole less expensive and painful if learned from someone else's mistakes.
- just because something is new, does not mean it is better
- just because something is advertised, does not mean the advertisment is telling the truth.
- common sense and street smarts does not alway come from a building with Education on the door.
-History is a great teacher - ignore history and you may yourself repeating mistakes.

-Redundancy in everything.

[sm]

Folks were self reliant, and just took care of life,carried on in ADLs. Folks did not Project, instead Planned.

No 911, most folks shared a party line, and still lots of folks did not have phones...too rural.

Some lived not too far from Prisons, Prisons than inmates worked the fields, some trusties would come to town, to get supplies, not uncommon for inmates to come out and be being repair on roads, - Chain Gangs - doing all sort of repair, maybe after a tornado coming in to clean up.

This is still being done, and not just the little towns. I am in the Big city. Has not been long ago the horse trailer pulled into the parking lot 2 blocks from me, and the inmates arrived by bus to do some work on a big creek. Nor has it been long since same horses came down my cul-de-sac, helicopter in the air, bicycles with LEOs and EMTs taking care of another matter.

Heck I was babysitting a house and sick folks and awoke to Deputy Sheriff kncking on the door , his horse being held by another Deputy, and " gonna check out back on the property, anything suspicious last night? We will check back when we leave, just keep an eye out just in case..."

--

I /we were able to carry on with ADLs back then - as we do today using the old definitions of Strategy and Tactics.

Not so much "what tool" we used - more so "having a tool" and knowing how to use the tool for a task.

[sm]

Practical tools that work[ed].

Old Hickory kitchen knives are not expensive, multiples are bought as backups.
Some are used as letter openers at the office, many ride in the vehicle, might want to snag something from the garden as one heads back toward the house

Extra Tire tool , just a single lug, not the 4 way are handy for a lot of uses. Maybe as a pry bar, jack handle, to keep a door/ gate open.

Bug Spray with a long reach spray in the vehicle, arrive at the shed, barn, picnic table on the property and have a need to rid wasps...

I still like an old oak axe handle for a variety of uses from bumping tire to see if inflated enough, to hitting rocks, to batting down a cobweb I need to get past.

Simple walking sticks and canes - I can check the depth of water before I step into it, the ditch full of wate to see where the crosstie is so I make sure I drive onto it to pass by...

Cokes and all taste better from a glass - Just hold onto the base if the necks should break...

--

See back when, with the Cold War, Missles pointed at us from Cuba, JFK and Dallas and Gov't Gun Grabbing of '68, well ...

-Folks had always hoarded and put back them single shot shotguns and .22 rifles, Medium Frame .38 specials and ways to reload ammo, except .22, LOTs of .22 ammo put back.

-Old Hickory and Slip Joints/ Pocket knives put back.

-There was that concern many times over the years , that them Buck 110s and similar might come to the attention of the same Gun Grabbers of '68.

-Folks taught, passed forward, and kept training the brain - them correct basic fundamentals.
Never said a newer tool was not learned - then again them old ones never stopped being taught and trained with either.

-Some life skills should never be lost, like NOT learning with a crutch, lose the crutch you fall down.

Lock feature fail - now the knife is more dangerous than a slip joint.

I guess the Problem is me after all.

I'm Not that old, not that young either. Just seen some definitions get lost, some new ones added. Some things not being made anymore, some skills and crafts getting more lost, if not already lost.

Some brand names now gone - or if the name is still around the product is gone - all that remains is the name.

It was not long ago a manual typwriter was used to send a letter in regard to legislation, envelope typed as well.

Just a old medium frame revolver, on a hip, slip joint in the pocket and a Single shot shotgun in the corner while all this "old fashioned" stuff going on...
then again the oil lamp provided light, as the power was out, no phones, not even a cell phone.
Lever Action 30-30 handy too - being more rural if matters got to that...4 cell Mag light still works...a AA handy on the desk if need...

Had emergency power handy, just, well..."boy, sometimes one has practice to keep familar is all...some stuff don't ever need to be forgot...".

Yeah - Problem is me.

[JohnBT]

Naw, you're not a problem, we just have the advantage of perspective that time provides. Earlier today I was thinking about what my great-grandfather would have thought about chainsaws. Or my grandfather and his 2 brothers with their 1500 apple trees to tend. I didn't arrive at any profound conclusions, but I had a good time cleaning up my great-grandfather's crosscut saw. My grandfather was born in '91, so the saw is fairly old, but still cuts.

For many years I carried a pen knife or a Boy Scout knife. Then I moved on to an old Boker Tree Brand folder with two blades. My dad gave me a nice little Case folder at one point, but I ended up with a Sebenza that I babied for all of about the first two weeks. Now it gets used for everything - except jobs involving roofing tar. I'd just as soon use an old knife from a yard sale when I have tar all over me. I honestly don't know how I got along without a pocket clip and a knife I can open with one hand. I'd rather just wear a sheath knife everyday, but that won't work here in the city unless you're carrying a fishing pole. I have an old 6" Case XX that would do.

To keep this short, let's just say that I like practical tools. Even though I drive a Subaru with a cute little scissors jack, I still carry a jack handle and a 4-sided one for spinning lugnuts. For changing tires in the rain I have a '50s-vintage gray rubber raincoat my dad was going to toss back in the '80s. I suppose I could afford a new poncho or something better, but the old rubber raincoat still works. So does my '50s-vintage Boy Scout hatchet.

John

[Kingcreek]

By the 4th or 5th grade, most of the boys carried a stockman or trapper or boy scout style knife. and that included carry school in the 1960's. I remember sitting on my grandpas knee and learning how to sharpen planer blades, chisels, and knives at his workbench. He gave me a brand new Case stockman and a stone of my own around age 7 or 8.
Now, I prefer a fixed blade with jeans and boots- usually the hand-forged Heimo Roselli "carpenter's knife" in a leather sheath. sometimes hunt while carrying Grandpa's old stag-handled Marble's "Ideal".
If a folder is more appropriate, its usually a custom. Bob Dozier's folding hunter for utility EDC, or something fancier if dressed up.
But I no longer have a knife I won't use.

[hso]

There are plenty of traditional pattern folders that use blade locking mechanisms for safety.

Case Copperlocks are single blade "Trapper" paterns that have a traditional back lock.http://www.shepherdhillscutlery.com/6290.jpg

Buck's 3" Ranger and others
http://www.buckknives.com/images/uploads/med_112.jpg
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/locking/buck_squire_with_gold_lip_pearl.html

AG Russell's foldters
http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/variations/image/p/h/p/phppEWYRm_550-.75x550_103318.jpg
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/locking/a_g_russell_pocket_sized_lockback_yellow_delrin.html

The little Al Mar Ospreys
http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/original/image/phpdssc4B.jpg

Browning's Mastersmith
http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/original/image/phprsADSy.jpg

Kershaw's 2-bladed lockers and singles
http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/original/image/phpCTrEY4.jpg
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/locking/kershaw_wild_turkey.html

Even Boker
http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/original/image/phpK3v3ue.jpg
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/locking/bker_trapperliner_stag.html

I appreciate the old slip joints and the craftsmanship that goes into good ones. But, just like advances in cars and guns have made them safer, the safer well crafted machine is what I prefer to use on a day to day basis.

[HiWayMan]

Well, I'm sititng here at work with my EDC gear. In one of my pockets I have an Old Timer Stockman and a brass Zippo. Two American classics. In my other pocket I have a 1-1/2" Guardrail nut looped on a piece of 550 cord. Not whiz bang tactical, but one smack in the grape and its coloring books for Christmas time.

[hso]

but one smack in the grape and its coloring books for Christmas time.

HWM, you owe me a new keyboard!:D

[Boom-stick]

Quote:
but one smack in the grape and its coloring books for Christmas time.


HWM, you owe me a new keyboard!

You owe me one too

and an explaination to my co-workers as to why I got cola coming out my nose:o


HWM Thanks for the addition to my sig line...