[Robereno]

This is one of those “new shooter” questions.

When doing target practice or hunting in brushfire prone country, how likely is it that you could start a fire? Our entire place burned a few years ago when a hunter got lost and shot off a flare gun. But, it was a flare gun.

Kind of a silly question but when using a firearm what would actually start a fire? The bullet hitting a rock & causing a spark? Hot ejected shell landing in the brush? Flame from muzzle getting too close to dry leaves?

I’m pretty new a shooting but the likelihood of starting a fire seems kind of remote. Has anyone ever seen it happen?

These days I pretty much take a fire extinguisher everywhere I go.

[atlctyslkr]

Possible yes, likely no. Sounds like a good test for Mythbusters.

[444]

Yes the danger is real.
Yes I have seen it happen: twice.
I actually saw it happen a third time, but that was caused by someone screwing around with one of those Dragon's Breath shotgun shells. The other two were caused by shooting standard rifle ammo at standard targets.
I have also seen a fire start on the floor of an indoor range. It was a pile of stuff they swept up and didn't dispose of: they left it in a pile down range on the floor. Regular jacketed 9mm handgun bullets strarted it on fire. People living in areas like the southeast US where it rains frequently and where it is humid have no idea of the fire danger in the southwestern US.
I certainly wouldn't expect something like this to happen in Georgia, but California is a whole different ballgame.
Here where I live, we average just a few inches of rainfall a year. The all time record for rain is just over 2" in one day.

[joab]

It could happen, I guess.
But I think it would have to be from a muzzle blast from a CZ52 or something similar with the muzzle held almost on the ground in some sort of tinder.

[lionking]

I once shot a abandoned car out in the middle of nowhere.The impact of a bullet must have sparked something cause within 2 minutes the car was ablaze.Luckily it quickly died out without spreading.:eek:

[shermacman]

I don't think so.
Every third Saturday of the month is the Braintree CMP shoot. We will usually get 20 - 24 people. The first set is twenty rounds fired from the prone position.

Let me rephrase that: 24 people with M-1's, M-14's and M-16's flat on their bellies' firing twenty rounds across the grass, weeds and leaves.

I have never seen anything that approaches smoke or smolder. As far as sparks, that is Hollywood. Bullets that are copper clad or straight lead will not spark against anything. Ever.

Ejected casings maybe pretty hot if you caught one in your hands but they are nowhere near hot enough to start a fire.

[DWARREN123]

I have seen it happen on military reservation, on a rifle range using ball ammo with no hard targets so yes it can happen.

[Lupinus]

with normal rounds highly unlikly. But if you use something like a tracer or other round that actually burns or exploads on impact then there is a very high probabilty if you are in a dry area.

[bg]

It happened here right above me a few yrs back in the
local San Bernardino mountains. Guy was shooting in
the forest and a large section or what's left of it from
the dry weather and bark beetles, caught on fire.

The guy didn't mean to start a fire, but the county went
after him & convicted him. He was forced to pay a pretty
large fine, but I don't recall if he had to serve time.

Now the Forestry shuts down the ranges that are in
the forest most of the yr due to the fire threats.

[Dacoda]

I think it's most common with muzzle loaders, as the wad usually leaves the barrel while it's still on fire. I've heard of it happening with shotguns as well. Fairly common. The range I frequent won't allow you to use bird shot into those sign board targets, the friction of all the pellets can get hot enough to ignite it.

Gives new meaning to "hot loads". :)

[Robereno]

I just had someone remind me that the fire I mentioned earlier was caused when the hunter lit a signal fire, not by shooting a flare gun. Irrelevant to my question I guess.

I’ve just been hesitant to go out shooting recently what with the tinder dry conditions on our property. I guess like most things, if I’m cautious and don’t use exotic ammo I should be OK. Still going to keep that extinguisher handy though.

Bg, I wonder what sort of ammo that guy was using?

[Phantom Warrior]

We had two fires on the range where they were shooting Bradley tables last week. Though I doubt too many people hunt or target practice with 25 mike-mike... :D

[PressCheck]

I've seen it happen twice at our range. Rifle fire on steel.

[carebear]

At SOI (Marines) tracers light up the brush/dry grass fairly often downrange.

Which is then fought by shutting down the line and sending everyone running down to stomp it out with boots and e-tools.

I've never seen it happen with ball ammo on an outdoor range but ball can cause sparks and a spark and tinder is all it takes, so I can believe it.

On the indoor range I worked at we'd get unburned powder all over the floor in front of the stations from poor reloads (and Magnums out of short barrels?).

I've seen a burning wad light that powder up and seen a sheet of 3' flames kinda slowly dance back and forth across the range floor.

It was pretty and the whole place is concrete so no big deal. I think the boss put all the BP shooters on one day after that. There weren't many of them in any event and the smoke got thick even with the vents running full out.

[cassandrasdaddy]

dry enough it could happen i started a heck of a fire with a bush hog spark from blade hitting rock . very exciting for me

[Ohen Cepel]

I've seen it with tracers and BIG stuff, but never with standard ammo.

[grizz]

It happened behind my local range here in Utah. The range backs to a mountain and someone took some long range shots up the side of the hill. A couple hours later, fire trucks, etc. Be careful.

[stevelyn]

Ft. Wainwright always manages to light off a range fire or two every year near Fairbanks.

[borderguy]

It happened more than once when I was a Firefighter in San Diego Co.

[4v50 Gary]

It's reality. Besides the flash from the muzzle, consider the time honored method of fire making: flint & steel. Heck, we use those components in flintlock rifles. If anything with iron hits a rock and causes a spark, and there is dry grass (ready tinder) nearby, it can ignite and then its burn, baby burn. Be a safe shooter. It's more than knowing what is beyond your target, but also knowing what's around it. We don't need any more fires this summer.

[Beetle Bailey]

Remember that a lot of foreign surplus ammo has steel in either the bullet jacket or bullet core. Combine that with the assorted junk that people unfortunately leave out in the desert (some of it made of metal) and you have the possibility of sparks. I've also heard that if you hit the wrong kind of rock with a steel bullet you can also create sparks. Add in really dry brush like we have in the California desert and you have the potential for a brush fire.

A fire extinguisher is a great idea, also a shovel. BTW, you can check your ammo for steel by using a magnet and seeing if it sticks.

[Robereno]

OK, well this thread started out with me feeling pretty confident that the likelihood of starting a fire was pretty remote. But the later posts have put me back on full alert about the prospect of starting something bad.

The spot I have set up for target practice is pretty well confined and I won’t be needlessly shooting off into the brush. I should probably do a little more brush clearing in the area though. And I’ll be watching closely for signs of smoke when I do practice.

Thanks everybody.

[CleverName]

Part of the rationale behind banning tracer and incendiary ammo in CA is that it would light up random brushfires in the southern part of the state, if I remember correctly.

[Greybeard]

Quote: "a spark, and there is dry grass (ready tinder) nearby, it can ignite and then its burn, baby burn."

Yep, yep. Last fall, fire chief in little town just west of us told me that a bird hunter started a big one with muzzle flash from shotgun.

[444]

At least a half dozen people post that they have not only heard of it, but have first hand experience.

Then other people post that there is no way this could happen just because they haven't seen it. :rolleyes:

[mp510]

In 1977 (I believe) there was a brush/forest fire in California that was started by a black powder shooter who used improper procedure in loading his weapon. He used kleenex as wadding, and it caught fire and spread the fire when he took the shot.

However, it is not very likely with modern arms, or when correct loading and firing protocall are followed with 'primitive arms'.

[modifiedbrowning]

I'm with 444. When I lived in Reno we had a good size fire (thousands of acres ) because of someone shooting in the desert.

[muscles]

it happened to me. about 2 years back, i was shooting with a friend in the desert. we were shooting paper targets sighting in our new ak47's, and seeing how they'd group. at the end of the session, we did a quick fire mag empty each into the target. right away, a bush behind the target began smoldering, and suddenly burst into flames. we both immediatly ran over to the bush stomping and kicking dirt over it. luckily, we were able to extinguish the fire. we stuck around for a while afterwards to ensure it didnt restart. anyhow, the risk is real and it can happen. be careful.

[Double Naught Spy]

shermacman said, As far as sparks, that is Hollywood. Bullets that are copper clad or straight lead will not spark against anything. Ever.

You apparently have not shot against steel or maybe with a unique definition of what is or is not a spark. A copper jacketed lead round impacting steal will produce sparks. I have seen it with pistol ammo and with rifle. The lead can superheat on impact, hot enough to glow. Glowing parts of hot lead can be seen fragmenting off in various directions.

I have shot rocks at night that produced similar effects.

With rifle rounds, the effect is even more amazing.

Just because you can't see the sparks in daytime shooting doesn't mean they are not there.

Iron is simply a very reactive metal, much more so than copper or lead when it comes to friction or heat sparks.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Copper projectiles can be made to spark easily. I used to amuse myself at night by sparking BBs of the street in front of my house.

Still, I think the chances of starting a fire with gunfire is very low if you do not use tracer ammunition. My friends and I have put many thousands of rounds into the forest and desert of California, often shooting at junk metal at the height of fire season, for 20 years, and have never started any fire or smoldering whatsoever.

However, I still always carry a shovel and several gallons of water just in case. Maybe a fire extinguisher would be good too.

It might be a waste of time to clear brush, though it can't hurt. I think the important thing carry a shovel/water/fire extinguisher, and be ready to sprint downrage with it if something happens.

[Zero_DgZ]

Your BB's are steel. They're just plated with copper. If you don't believe me, grab a magnet.

Even still, copper hitting steel can spark. The copper isn't the part that sparks readily - The steel is. Also, the material like molten copper or lead splattering around doesn't have to be glowing as a visible spark to be able to set dry brush, paper, &c. alight.

If your bullets are just expending their range and falling in the dirt I think your chances are nil. But if you start hitting rocks, bottles, metal debris, target stands, and suchlike your chances begin to increase.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Your BB's are steel. They're just plated with copper. If you don't believe me, grab a magnet.


You know, just after I posted that, I wondered to myself, hmm, I wonder if those were really copper-coated steel. I was a kid back then and just bought the "Copperhead" brand BBs and never thought about it.

I should also add that I have seen a few sparks when shooting rocks at dusk, but still never any smoke or flames.

[hso]

I saw it happen on a very dry hot fall day at Knob Creek, but it was because of the use of tracer ammunitoin.

I would not expect an ejected casing to start a fire since the temperature of the casing is below the ignition temperature of materials you would expect to encounter in the field or at the range.

[BrockB]

I'm in the National Guard and when we where at the range shooting the SAWs (Squad Automatic Weapon). We burned up about 10 acres. Of course there are tracer rounds in the belts soooo....... Range control said it happens all the time and we just kept shooting until the fire dept showed up.

[loose cannon]

i remember awhile back reading the column"coopers corner"where chairman jeff mentioned commie steel jackets starting a fire.ever since that i watch closely.

did have to beat out a tracer fire once 06 from a garand took just a second and whoosh.

[yipper]

A 15,000 acre, $2 million dollar wildfire was started with tracer rounds at a range on the outskirts of Boise, Idaho in 1996....
http://www2.kbcitv.com/x72327.xml

geoff

[Double Naught Spy]

The link to the wildfire is bad.

Sorry, the page you are looking for cannot be found.

[PowderKeg]

Absolutely possible here in the Southeast. The army keeps us running right regularly at times putting out fires on the ranges and in the training areas. Most are caused by training aids (flares, simulators, smoke grenades, etc.). Range fires often result from tracers (had several today, and after 3" of rain over the weekend), but there are ones that can be blamed on regular ball ammo - no tracers in use at the time. Ricochetes off backstops, hard targets, rocks, steel plate (protecting poles), anything that can create a spark. Grasses, pine needles, fine leaf litter don't require much time to dry enough to light easily. Combine dry fine fuels, low humidity, and a breeze with a spark, and you too can experience the joys of chasing fire.

[jkingrph]

Saw it happen once at a public range in Monroe, La. Don't know what caused it, but from point of origin of fire it looked as though someone missed target by a large margin as fire started about 50 feet in front of backstop.

[SASS#23149]

It has happened at one of the ranges I shoot at in Shedd,Oregon.IN fact they shut the range down on days that it is considered too hot...I forget the exact termperature that they use as a guidlein.
their 'berm' is a very tall and very rocky 'small mountain',and because of the danger they keep their own fire truck on hand.

[Car Knocker]

The link to the wildfire is bad.
Probably because the thread - and link - is a year old.

[MD_Willington]

Norinco ammo + T-post + dry wheat field = ! SMOKE SMOKE !

We had water in milk jugs and that fixed it pretty quick...

Be careful !

[MOSINS]

Yes, it is possible to start a brush fire while shooting a rifle with steel core bullets(ammo) when the temperature is in the triple digits.

Have a good day.

:)