The Crazy Island Gangs Saga Continues (Anchorage)


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Cosmoline
July 24, 2006, 09:29 PM
More details have come out about the football game shootout that took place near one of my bike trails a few weeks ago:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/8000599p-7893684c.html

Police said their investigation of the scene turned up 53 bullet casings, a mixture of .380, 9 mm and .45-caliber. The casings were strewn from the sideline of the football field to the parking lot.

At least they're pretty horrible shots. But if the bystanders hadn't moved quickly for cover and ran away the toll would have been greater. What amazes me is this fight wasn't about money or women or even gang turf. It was over one guy getting too rough in a pickup game of contact football. The shooters--all islanders--just dug out handguns and started blasting away towards each other.

On a tactical level, how do you deal with people like this? How can you even predict when one is going to take offense and go for his gun? The usual rules are right out the window. Look at one crosswise and he may start blasting. Anchorage has always had the mob and various gangs, but these characters are something different. They appear to be motivated by bizarre codes of honor that arise from a mix of island mores with LA gang lifestyle. Combine that with firearms and they're capping rounds at each other left right and center. But how can they so carelessly throw away their own lives, and risk so many others, over something so trivial? Before seeing this gang war unfold I would have said this sort of thing only happens in bad movies.

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ebd10
July 24, 2006, 09:43 PM
On a tactical level, how do you deal with people like this?

Proper sight alignment and good trigger control. While they "spray and pray" you can put an accurately aimed round into their CNS.

Preacherman
July 24, 2006, 09:51 PM
What's the status of the guy who was shot? Has he recovered?

Pilgrim
July 24, 2006, 09:53 PM
I guess that's why the NFL doesn't allow players to be armed. :D

Baba Louie
July 24, 2006, 10:06 PM
On a tactical level, how do you deal with people like this? How can you even predict when one is going to take offense and go for his gun? The usual rules are right out the window.

I know how the Missouri town of Skidmore resident's took care of Ken McElroy once they'd had enough of his antics... and it wasn't pretty. :uhoh:

To date, no one has ever determined who did what. Not that I'd ever recommend anyone do anything but take the High Road, legally. Being born and raised in Missouri, I do know Skidmore is a peaceful little town once again.

But that was one man in a small midwestern town. You've got a serious situation there with multiple armed aggressors. Good thing nobody (from that subset) knows how to aim and shoot a handgun, yet, otherwise someone might get seriously hurt.

longeyes
July 25, 2006, 10:46 AM
Maybe you begin to stop the insanity by recognizing that the toney enclaves of D.C., New York, Los Angeles, and various ivy-shrouded haunts are filled with "gangs" of fluffernutters in expensive suits and flaunting Prada and advanced degrees who are the intellectual mothers and fathers of this cultural craziness. Fight gang violence now--by going after the lunatics who have advanced the cause of socialism, PC, and multiculturalism in America for the last four decades. Without knowing it, these out-of-control kids are pirates operating under the black flag of corrupted modern "thought."

El Tejon
July 25, 2006, 11:52 AM
Pilgrim, well, if they play for the Indianapolis Colts, they are probably armed.:uhoh: I sold more guns to Colts players than to the entire westside of Indianapolis.:D

The way to deal with it is avoidance.:) Remember Hackathorn's Law: do not go where you do not belong.

Baba Louie
July 25, 2006, 12:18 PM
Remember Hackathorn's Law: do not go where you do not belong.
I'm not disagreeing here mind you... but... While this may be a truism, where would this nation be if the original settlers followed that sage bit of wisdom? I'm sure the natives would prefer things to be done like that, but even they forayed from one area to another, all the while, doing their thing to other tribes.

The strong, as always, survived. The weak (or lesser armed) either turned and ran, died on the spot or decided to join up as slaves to their conquerors.

Today we all wish that someone else, as in our police forces, will wade in there and deal with the mess. Sometimes they do. Sometimes, they just want to go home after their shifts too, and since they were not present at the time of the actual shooting, a sense of urgency is somewhat diminished.

Another truism... All that's necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing.

Of course, should they (good men) do something, it's considered "taking the law into their own hands" and we oft times hear Police Officers state, that no one should do so, they could get hurt... that it's the Police's job. But they can't be everywhere, nor should they be.

So the dilemna is this; Should an armed "good guy" or two, present at the football field in question that night, actually "take the law" into his own hands and neutralize said "wild youngsters with guns", he would be crucified by the law and more than likely, fellow gang members, in an act of revengeful honor, as they see it... would he not?

In other words, he'd be part of the problem as opposed to being part of the solution... and his real problems would just be beginning.

utahminirevolver
July 25, 2006, 12:32 PM
Well there goes the theory that a cold climate keeps the riff raff out.

Imaginos
July 25, 2006, 01:23 PM
The SCOTUS has decided that the government, and their lackeys, do not have a statutory duty to protect anyone, so why do you belive that you have any kind of duty to protect anyone but yourself and your dependents?

If you are talking about fighting back against a person, or persons, who are firing into a crowd like the church shootings in the Dallas area or the Luby's shooting in Killeen, TX, then I'm all in favor of ending the threat.

However, if you join someone else's gunfight, how will your action benefit anyone? How will you choose sides? What makes you think you will not become a target for both of the opposing groups? If you survive, you risk the gangers coming after you for revenge. Just no good outcomes here.

Personally, I try to avoid large crowds, and ALL sporting events, simply because you never know when the person next to you might decide to self-destruct. If I happen to draw the short straw and some idiots decide to open up on each other in my immediate area, I plan to decamp post haste taking my dependants with me. If a BG is between me and the exit, I'll deal with him as an individual not as part of the general melee.

the naked prophet
July 25, 2006, 01:33 PM
why do you belive that you have any kind of duty to protect anyone but yourself and your dependents?

Because we are the good guys.

I'm willing to die to protect someone else - even someone who may not be innocent. I'm not asking you to do the same, only explaining why.

That said, I am prepared to shoot anyone engaged in immediate violence. I am aware of the myriad legal and tactical problems attendant to intervening in a situation which does not directly threaten me or mine, and I think that the benefit to the potentially innocent victims in immediate danger outweighs the risk to myself.

Soybomb
July 25, 2006, 01:36 PM
Honestly to me it sounds like in this case if you weren't playing football with thugs or watching thugs play football it wouldn't have been a problem. Spend your recreation time with respectable people? (the genereal you, not you yourself) :D

ceetee
July 25, 2006, 01:44 PM
After reading the WHOLE story, I note:

1. These thugs were not part or the "normal" Saturday pickup footbal game crowd.

and

2. The violence was directed from one small group of players, towards everyone else.

That said, as long as it was safe for anyone I'm responsible for, I'd have no problem stepping in against the obvious bad guys. In this case, someone actually did step in, and that person is not being charged with anything more than the cost to replenish his magazine...

Cosmoline
July 25, 2006, 04:30 PM
From what I've heard about this particular shootout, getting involved with a short gun would have been a disaster. People were running everywhere and not even the witnesses knew who was shooting at whom or why. The scary thing is I'm not sure the shooters were really sure who they were shooting at or with. Had I been riding past that area, I would have high tailed it.

The more difficult question is what do you do when approaching a pack of Island teens? Ordinarily I keep my eyes on packs of teens, but a quick look over is enough to confirm they're not going to be trouble. In this case, though, they went from playing football to capping off rounds at the drop of a hat. The rash of other shootings appear to be similar. It's disconcerting. How do you get a read off such people?

mordechaianiliewicz
July 25, 2006, 06:48 PM
How are things politically in Anchorage?

I have a tendency to say if you really want to stop this stuff, and the local leos support it, the folks in their neighborhoods could very easily stomp these fools out. As was posted before, they don't have the first idea of weapons and tactics.

But such tactics would have to have the tacit approval of the local law establishment. If it were me, I as the local prosecutor, I would say, if you are in a gang, and you open fire, you lost your right to live. I will go after any gang member left standing once you try to take on the citizens of Anchorage. I'll put you under the prison.

Oh, and if y'all want your surviving relatives to sue the shooter, I mean hero who rid our society of you street punks, I'll laugh at you.

Such would not totally stomp out the gang warfare, but it would put the gangstas on notice that they better only shoot each other, and they better do it on their own turf.

It would say that if they take it onto Anchorage streets, regular citizens will have open season and license to collect heads.

I doubt the attitude in Anchorage would support that though.

Cosmoline
July 25, 2006, 07:10 PM
The APD isn't even willing to admit that the Island gangs exist or identify them by name, so they're not much help. Another part of the problem is the gangs aren't like traditional organized crime. They're not running drugs or prostitutes. Many of them appear to be otherwise normal people with families.

longeyes
July 25, 2006, 11:25 PM
Another part of the problem is the gangs aren't like traditional organized crime. They're not running drugs or prostitutes. Many of them appear to be otherwise normal people with families.

One word: tribalism.

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