Where are the real Americans?


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Desertdog
July 25, 2006, 06:42 PM
Controversial, yes. True, well I think so.

http://www.sierratimes.com/06/07/25/69_1_101_194_17884.htm
Where are the real Americans?
Michael Cook

One wonders where to start with all the problems that face America and our freedoms today. It seems we must fight each day just to keep the status quo with our freedoms. Right now we are involved in a war that could be our downfall if we canít get the liberal peaceniks off their stupid cut and run ideas.
I donít like war any more than the next person; however we must take the gloves off and win this one at all costs. The stupid idea of tying the hands of law enforcement, not allowing them to do profiling is one area that must change right now. This war is about race and religion and we must fight it that way. That doesnít make me or anyone else a racist. Facts are facts. The Muslim people involved in this war want to kill us all, thatís the bottom line. They have, as others have said, already taken France and Spain, and they will continue to take unless we stand up to them now. This nation is the single largest obstacle in their way and getting us would be the end for the world and they know that. Their efforts will descend on us like flies if we donít stop them now wherever they are in the world.

The fact that they are getting aid from Korea, China, and some Middle Eastern countries means that we are facing as many enemies as during World War II. If that isnít bad enough we are also being invaded from our neighbors to the south. They have openly stated they want to take back many states in America they feel belongs to them. They are doing it in a very easy way and our government is helping them to do it. I believe they may be able to do just that without firing a shot if it continues.

The worst of all our enemies live right here among us. That is the liberal whiny environmental idiots who are turning us into a poor third world country like many others in the world. They donít want us to be at war, they donít want us using our natural resources, and they want us to stop hunting and fishing and possessing firearms so that they can set us up for the big takeover. They want to turn us into sheep living in mud huts and in poverty.

Itís time right now for all of us true Americans to stand up with one voice and turn it around. We must support our young men and women who are fighting the enemy on foreign shores and show the liberals that they are a minority and that we still have the power. This can be done through support of agencies on our side of the issue, and through voting in the right people in government. We can also do our duty by showing up to demonstrate in large numbers when needed. Itís our duty also to make sure we own and can safely use a firearm. This is what makes this nation strong. If you donít own a personnel protection devise such as a good firearm and abundant ammo to go with it, it is your duty as an American to go and get one. After all you and I are the last line of defense and the obstacle that will save this great nation of ours.

We were once proud and strong Americans who didnít care about what our neighbors thought of us. We were not afraid to tell it like it is. We would stand tall and take on anyone who would threaten our freedoms and way of life. Many of us like me and others fought in wars to preserve that way of life and freedoms. We were proud to serve and will do it again if need be. We are the majority in this nation and we will stand tall once more. I am very proud of each and every one of those young Americans who volunteer to serve this nation and fight for us. We will never be able to thank them enough. They deserve our vote throwing those out of Congress who bad mouth them and give aid to our enemies. Thatís right Iím talking about Kerry, Schumer, Kennedy, and others of that ilk who donít deserve our vote for their actions and vocal diatribe in front of the press.

Be strong and stand tall America, our country needs us now more than ever.

God bless America and God bless our troops still in harm's way.

Michael E. Cook, Coos County Sheriff, Retired

Manager Bay Area Firearms

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motorep
July 25, 2006, 07:00 PM
I'm here.

Evil Monkey
July 25, 2006, 07:07 PM
I'm here as well.

el44vaquero
July 25, 2006, 07:08 PM
:cool: Present :cool:

DKSuddeth
July 25, 2006, 07:31 PM
Yo, raising my hand.

MrTuffPaws
July 25, 2006, 07:39 PM
Here, but I disagree with almost everything he stated about the manufactured ďwarĒ.

ryoushi
July 25, 2006, 07:53 PM
Yeah me too!!! Hey wait a minute what's for dinner?

Autolycus
July 25, 2006, 08:05 PM
I am a real American.

However the other is forgetting to look at the rights that the Republicans/Conservatives are trying to destroy.

The detainee abuse at GITMO. The whole Padilla fiasco. The Patriot Act.

DoubleTapDrew
July 25, 2006, 09:07 PM
Present!
However the other is forgetting to look at the rights that the Republicans/Conservatives are trying to destroy.
I don't think he was talking specifically about a political party, he kept mentioning liberals, not democrats, although more often than not they are one in the same. I don't care what party someone is in. If they are undermining our troops and trying to chisel away at the core that is the USA, throw them out on their sorry posterior and let them know they are not welcome here anymore.

Camp David
July 25, 2006, 10:04 PM
Where are the real Americans?

Here and reporting for duty! Middle class, major federal and state tax contributor, veteran, and guy that pays the burden of local educational revenue through tobacco tax.

White Horseradish
July 25, 2006, 10:22 PM
I got me a nice certificate that says I'm an American. I have also taken an oath to that effect.

However, I think that profiling by race is dumb, dangerous and irresponsible. I doubt you would be able to tell a Jew from an Arab from an Italian at a glance. At the same time, I don't think you could tell a Croatian Muslim from a Serbian Christian. Profiling by religion is impossible, since religion is not obvious at all, and a Coptic Christian looks just like another Lebanese. Add to this Muslim converts who range from lily-white Johnny Walker Lindh to visibly Hispanic Jose Padilla to NOI Black Americans. Where does that get you?

That kind of profiling is what will make you complacent. It is what will make you miss 20 pounds of explosives that will bring down an airliner because it was hidden in a battery casing of a little old lady's wheelchair and a little old lady is none of those things you'd be looking for.

The only thing you can profile by is behavior. That takes training, experience and judgement. There is a sore lack of those in law enforcement. Fix that, and you'd be golden. Profiling by looks is a lot like zero-tolerance - a shield for the incompetent.

Real Americans use their brains.

AJAX22
July 25, 2006, 10:33 PM
Present and accounted for.

crazed_ss
July 25, 2006, 10:40 PM
I'm a real American, but I disagree with 90% of that passage.

cbsbyte
July 25, 2006, 11:00 PM
I am American who completely disagrees with the points made in the article written by the Chicken Hawk Mr. Cook. I am against the President, the "War", Patriot act, gitmo and any other hair brained ideas boiled up by the so called Neo Cons. Yet I am a proud American. Sounds like Mr Cook watches too much Fox (Neo) News.

Shweboner
July 25, 2006, 11:02 PM
True American here.....

However I disagree with the above.....

and I disagree with the notion that "real Americans" have to be war mongers and bigots.:what:

progunner1957
July 26, 2006, 12:09 AM
The worst of all our enemies live right here among us. That is the liberal whiny environmental idiots who are turning us into a poor third world country like many others in the world. They donít want us to be at war, they donít want us using our natural resources, and they want us to stop hunting and fishing and possessing firearms so that they can set us up for the big takeover. They want to turn us into sheep living in mud huts and in poverty.
Amen to that!

And while we are at it, DO NOT vote for their bottomfeeding socialist political whores this November - and even more so in Nov. 2008.

WayneConrad
July 26, 2006, 12:22 AM
"This war is about race and religion and we must fight it that way."

Right. Because it's those Muslim Arabs that are after us.

"The fact that they are getting aid from Korea, China, and some Middle Eastern countries means that we are facing as many enemies as during World War II."

Wait. How many races and religeons is this war about, again? All those Korean Muslim and Chinese Arabs are out to get us, too?

This fellow is just whining. He's not even consistent.

Sindawe
July 26, 2006, 12:35 AM
Sounds like somebody is off his medications again. :uhoh:

The ONLY point I agree with this person on is how to wage this war.

Of course, if we as a nation did THAT, certain "Holy Sites" in a particular sand rich nation would be smooth, green and glow in the dark.

Yeager
July 26, 2006, 12:47 AM
Prehaps more people will wake up when as the PC people put it, a "Innocent poor misguided muslim" walks into times square with a suitcase nuke and visions of 72 virgins dancing in his head. :banghead:

Autolycus
July 26, 2006, 01:05 AM
Or a good Christian blows up a federal building.

Desertdog
July 26, 2006, 01:34 AM
Prehaps more people will wake up when as the PC people put it, a "Innocent poor misguided muslim" walks into times square with a suitcase nuke and visions of 72 virgins dancing in his head.
I doubt if even that would change any of the liberal and eviromentalist minds.

crazed_ss
July 26, 2006, 01:38 AM
Prehaps more people will wake up when as the PC people put it, a "Innocent poor misguided muslim" walks into times square with a suitcase nuke and visions of 72 virgins dancing in his head

So what do you suggest? Should we detain everyone who doesnt believe in your religion? Should we subject those with olive skin tones to harrassment by LEOs?

lionking
July 26, 2006, 01:45 AM
Ill comment on what I consider an American and on liberalism.

I use to listen to talk radio,for the most part Rush Limbaugh.I dont listen anymore but a comment he use to say was "oridinary people doing extraordinary things" and I think thats a great definition for America,be it answering a call of duty,being creative or using their minds,or with all the different social,economic,religious and political backgrounds coming together as one nation (mostly)when the shtf,like WW1,WW2 or 9-11.Unfortunately politicians sometimes make it difficult for ordinary people to be extraordinary.

Liberalism,in its current form, I view them as the socialist,"I feel guilty to have it so good",champions of big ,central government,Christian attacking(but not other religion),patriotic attacking(pledge of allegiance) people they are.Alot of them say how " civilized" europe is,I dont care how well "civilized" europe is,because with all due respect to international members here,and there are good people around the world,I view the principles of this Republic's liberty as more civilized.

Bush,I've already stated in a thread Im not completely happy with some of the stuff he has done,or failed to do.Im glad we get a chance to clean house every 4 or 8 years.

Its the everyday people that make this country great,the right as a individual.

hmm,think I'll have a hotdog and a coca-cola now

p35bhp09
July 26, 2006, 05:10 AM
Tecumseh said...Or a good Christian blows up a federal building.

You almost made me blow my Margarita out my nose all over my new laptop!:)

lionking
July 26, 2006, 05:36 AM
quote;So what do you suggest? Should we detain everyone who doesnt believe in your religion? Should we subject those with olive skin tones to harrassment by LEOs?

If you were hunting a bear you would'nt follow a deer's tracks...
American citizens should be given due process with their constititional rights,regardless of race.No unnecessary harassment or such but...
The terrorists most actively threatening this country follow Islam.I dont see it as profiling to concentrate scrutiny on Muslims or places of worship as long as its within legal guidelines.Problem is too many scream "profiling" to inhibit investigating in this political correct era.
regarding a Christian,or someone like Timothy Mcvey doing a act of terrorism.Some looney like that goes off a chain and the public specially the media seem to have no problem profiling,which they would include every "gun nut" like all of us here as part of "the problem"

crazed_ss
July 26, 2006, 05:56 AM
I see your point, but I'm wary of profiling. It has too high of potential to be misused. It's too easy to violate innocent people using such a strategy. I'm not even certain of the legality of it sometimes. Say a LEO pulls someone over for being Arab and ends up finding some links to terrorists. Could something like that even be held up in court?

Desertdog
July 26, 2006, 11:03 AM
Say a LEO pulls someone over for being Arab and ends up finding some links to terrorists. Could something like that even be held up in court?

Not if he pulled them over for just being an Arab.

utahminirevolver
July 26, 2006, 01:01 PM
That federal building in Oklahoma was blown up by an atheist, not a "good Christian", just for the record.

As this thread shows, we're not very united. There are genuine extreme problems facing us as a nation as that retired Coos Bay leo pointed out; half our nation think we're the problem, Mexico has ambitions of reconquista, jihadists want world domination, communists support the jihadists today, socialists in our midst foment class warfare and crooked big business types do the same in their own selfish way, and numerous tribalists want their own little balkan fiefdom and to hell with everybody else.

For now, we're frozen in mostly inaction. Pakistan and North Korea have nukes and are developing longer range delivery vehicles for them and Iran is working feverishly to acquire them. We currently have the WMDs to preemptively take out sworn enemies, just not the will.

Interesting times.

Lonestar
July 26, 2006, 01:03 PM
Ich bin ein American :)

Frandy
July 26, 2006, 02:58 PM
Well, I'm an American last time I looked. So was my father and his father before him. Oh, and that grandfather of mine was an illegal immigrant. Yup, snuck into the country at 15, all the way from Italy and up from Argentina on his own. On his own... That was in 1906. I'm sure some of you would want him flogged, sent back, and more.

He was proud to be an American. Served his nation working in a Naval Yard during WW II (didn't have to), and his sons served in the Air Corps and Army. I've served as well. Yeah, all Americans and proud of it.

But, I think that article that started this thread is mostly a moronic, racist, xenophobic rant. So, I figure some of you think I'm not a good American. So it goes.

JohnBT
July 26, 2006, 03:02 PM
"America, where are you now,
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now,
We can't fight alone against the monster?"

Oops, wrong war, wrong administration.

Steppenwolf, around about '70 or '71.

Everybody (every generation?) always thinks 'right now' is the worst it's ever been.

John

Phetro
July 26, 2006, 03:04 PM
I am an American, and nothing but.

And I agree. If you're in a war, it's PAST time to think about why you're fighting. Those thoughts should have been brought up before you made the decision. Once you're at war, you have one thing to do: WIN.

I see your point, but I'm wary of profiling. It has too high of potential to be misused. It's too easy to violate innocent people using such a strategy. I'm not even certain of the legality of it sometimes. Say a LEO pulls someone over for being Arab and ends up finding some links to terrorists. Could something like that even be held up in court?

What are you talking about? He pulled him over because he was swerving. ;)

Desertdog
July 26, 2006, 04:54 PM
He was proud to be an American.
He became an American when he got here. So many today do not come here to be an American. They want to keep their native country language as their primary language, native customs, way of life, and some even their flag.

In other word they only want to live here, not to become an American. This, to me, is what is causing a lot of the problems.

If, and when, Americans move to another country and do not try to assimilate, they too will be disliked. If they are there illegally, it only makes matters worse.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 26, 2006, 05:44 PM
He became an American when he got here. Bingo...

He didn't insist on "press 2 if you want to hear in Italian".

JohnBT
July 26, 2006, 05:49 PM
In my neighborhood we have a variety of people from all over. We have the construction laborers from South America living in crowded apartments, sharing one old rustbucket and sending money back to the home country.

Also have this guy with a new bicycle who sleeps in the hedge on the other side of the alley and spends a lot of time trimming his beard with barber scissors and a hand mirror. I'm guessing Argentina, but I don't know what his story is and he's only been around for a week. I know he isn't one of the regulars - the old white alcoholic/crack smokers that drink their 40s a little after sunrise and eat doughnuts off the top of the supercans. Ewww.

Then in the next block we have some real hardworking Americans - a new little Mexican one-stop shop (gotta love 'em - they're competing with a 7-11 across the street), an old guy from Egypt running a movie rental shop, a Chinese family selling Chinese food and an extended Iranian family running a larger market. They have to be Americans because they all have cars better than mine. :D Some of them speak better English, too.

So, do you know who causes all the trouble? The yuppie-trash fern bar on the corner with the $20 entrees and the soon-to-be-divorced let's-get-wasted crowd. You can hear them screaming at their cell phones at all hours from a half a block away.

Nothing like a trendy fringe neighborhood. Somebody explain to me why a 1350 sq.ft. house across the street just sold for $329,500 when the assessment is only $274k? Makes me want to sing Zappa's Moving to Montana.

John

mordechaianiliewicz
July 26, 2006, 06:07 PM
I don't mean to stomp on anyone's parade, but Liberals are not the "enemy within" like these Michael Savage types claim. Most American liberals are intelligent enough to know that the Islamo-fascists don't like them, but they don't want this war because of the massive # of American casualties. And the harm to the nation's economy. Is that so bad?

Come on now. The neo-cons might be right, they might be wrong about "cut and run," but you have to be a bloodthirsty idiot to think for one second the war in Iraq was a good idea.

This comes down to the fact that after the Ottoman Empire got split up by the Allies after WWI, Iraq should have been three countries instead of just one. But the British leadership didn't think about this logically, they just drew lines on maps. We didn't have any business supporting Saddam in the first place, or deposing him later.

Even now, Islam is having an internal battle. Do we become more like the Westerners, or do we become more like the 7th Century, AD? Jihad? Or a Muslim renaissance akin to the 900s-1300s AD? We should let them fight and kill themselves. Flesh out their internal battles, and handle them later on.

We have too many internal problems to deal with. Real Americans would deal with our internal problems first. And let China and India deal with the Muslim problems just like we let the Soviets deal with the Russians in WW2.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 26, 2006, 06:14 PM
Real Americans would deal with our internal problems first. And let China and India deal with the Muslim problems just like we let the Soviets deal with the Russians in WW2.Mordecai -- just what the H*** are you talking about? The Soviets WERE Russians! China and India... WTH???

Soybomb
July 26, 2006, 06:18 PM
Hey look its another one of those "if you don't support anything thats done "for the terrorists" you're not an american" articles.

I think the real American values freedom and wouldn't dismiss worries of a government running out of control stomping on people's rights in the name of terrorism as liberal fluff. It seems as though we're too scared of whats in the shadows to worry about that today.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 26, 2006, 08:35 PM
I think the real American values freedom and wouldn't dismiss worries of a government running out of control stomping on people's rights in the name of terrorism as liberal fluffNo it is a liberal strawman. They throw up the strawman, and say "oh, oh" what about the Rights of Abdullah the Butcher in Gitmo. Tell you what bud, Abdullah has one right. The right to die.

He is not an American citizen, he is not going to change, he probably should have been pitched out of the plane on his trip to Cuba, but someone thought he might know something of interest.

We are at war. If you want to surrender, go over and talk with Hizbollah or Al Queda. Maybe they'll mail your head back to your Mommy. Probably not, they'll feed it to the rats. If you feel better about yourself by being "open minded", knock yourself out. But don't be so openminded that your brains fall out.

decradius
July 26, 2006, 08:38 PM
Or a good Christian blows up a federal building.
Funny how Timothy McVeigh tends to pop up in these circumstances...

Yes, of course non-Muslims can commit terrorist bombings. But bringing up McVeigh
doesn't do anything discredit the link between the religion of Islam and terrorist bombings. It only deflects the conversation.

Here's why it's a logical fallacy:


McVeigh did not attempt to justify his actions by reference to scriptures or tradition.
McVeigh was not acting on mainstream Christian teachings.
There are no large Christian groups around the world dedicated to implementing the same teachings.


The difference is between aberrant acts and aberrant teachings. Anybody
with a belief system can commit atrocious acts, but they are more likely to come in greater
numbers and frequency when they are and encouraged and perpetuated by religious texts
and those who teach from them.

lamazza
July 26, 2006, 09:15 PM
If you're in a war, it's PAST time to think about why you're fighting. Those thoughts should have been brought up before you made the decision. Once you're at war, you have one thing to do: WIN.


+1

'Card
July 26, 2006, 09:24 PM
The real Americans are that great mass of people in the middle who work hard, take care of their families, mind their own business, and aren't interested in trying to tell other people what they should think about everything.

JohnBT
July 26, 2006, 10:06 PM
"Most American liberals are intelligent enough to know that the Islamo-fascists don't like them,..."

If most of them are that smart then the rest of them must live in my neighborhood and teach at the University of Richmond or Virginia Commonwealth University. I just find it hard to believe the ones around here are all that different.

Shortly after 9/11 a full professor stood in the middle of the street and yelled at my elderly neighbor to take her flag down and keep it down. She was just taking it in for the night and I thought she was going to stroke out over this idiot's rantings.

I like my neighbors, but I wish this one had stayed in Cuba when her vacation was over

John

crazed_ss
July 27, 2006, 01:19 AM
He didn't insist on "press 2 if you want to hear in Italian".

Did you know Bank of America was started by an Italian immigrant and was originally called "Bank of Italy". It originally catered to Italians in San Francisco. The myth that immigrants of the past just came to America and Instantly became Americans is absolute falsehood. Immigrants of old tended to cluster together in ethnic neighboorhoods where old-world languages and customs were prevalent.

foob
July 27, 2006, 01:42 AM
Was he looking for real Americans or racist, xenophobic ones?

I think... wait nevermind American Idol is on again.

Soybomb
July 27, 2006, 03:22 AM
No it is a liberal strawman. They throw up the strawman, and say "oh, oh" what about the Rights of Abdullah the Butcher in Gitmo. Tell you what bud, Abdullah has one right. The right to die.

He is not an American citizen, he is not going to change, he probably should have been pitched out of the plane on his trip to Cuba, but someone thought he might know something of interest.

We are at war. If you want to surrender, go over and talk with Hizbollah or Al Queda. Maybe they'll mail your head back to your Mommy. Probably not, they'll feed it to the rats. If you feel better about yourself by being "open minded", knock yourself out. But don't be so openminded that your brains fall out.

While thats an excellent display of chest thumping machismo, it doesn't address any issues. It does nothing to address the government being able to wiretap whatever they want with no checks and then cover it up. It sounds fine to say "do it for the terrorists" but it doesn't change the fact that the US government arrested one of its citizens in chicago (jose padilla) and held him without charging him for 3 years. I guess some people are fine with US citizens detained on US soil having no rights because someone declares them an enemy combatant. I'm not, I like the bill of rights. It doesn't address the accidentally declassified dossier of Murat Kurnaz who was detained in guantanamo with 100 pages of reports, none showing the man with any connection to terrorist activities.

Its easy to say "you're with us or against us, go play with the terrorists" but I think its short sighted to not consider what you're doing wrong yourself. I've always thought the US tried to hold itself to a higher standard of conduct and valued freedom. Every day I question that more and more and think people would be willing to take the leading parties word and sacrifice the values the nation was founded on for the promise of a little safety.

Yeager
July 27, 2006, 03:47 AM
Anyone who thinks the war in Iraq is bad and we should cut and run because we lost 2000 some odd service men should know that in D-day we had more casualties over the course of one day than in the entire occupation of Iraq.

Could we of won World War II with the same Liberal "cut and run after 100 casualties touchey feely" mind set?

Edit: Directed at the above poster:

Does the phrase "loose lips sinks ships" mean absolutely anything to you?

tellner
July 27, 2006, 04:13 AM
The guy is a loudmouthed twit with a poor grasp of reality and a mind that functions on prejudice and sound bites. To hell with him.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 27, 2006, 07:40 AM
Its easy to say "you're with us or against us, go play with the terrorists" but I think its short sighted to not consider what you're doing wrong yourself.

I've always thought the US tried to hold itself to a higher standard of conduct and valued freedom.

Every day I question that more and more and think people would be willing to take the leading parties word and sacrifice the values the nation was founded on for the promise of a little safety.And I for one am happy that you find the time and effort to question the "sacrifice of values". Let me see -- two supposed terrorists were detained, perhaps improperly. Let's let them all go... Is that the logic? Or... let's do nothing. Let's negotiate. Let's wait for a global test.

And if you are going to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, let me quote him correctly:

They that can give up essential libertyto obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Michigander
July 27, 2006, 08:00 AM
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here (http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader$605) includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson to be the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

Mongo the Mutterer
July 27, 2006, 08:21 AM
Thank you Michigander. Good information.

Soybomb
July 27, 2006, 12:42 PM
And I for one am happy that you find the time and effort to question the "sacrifice of values". Let me see -- two supposed terrorists were detained, perhaps improperly. Let's let them all go... Is that the logic?
Not at all, I would change the process we're using now to more resemble our justice system where a few guilty men will walk but no innocent man punished. Err on the side of caution if you will. How do you defend the Padilla case? Isn't that an example that the system is broken and the government needs to be brought under control?

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