[LexusNexus]

I see people mounting front pistol grip to handguard/forend of rifles and carbines such as ARs and others. I personally can't seem to get used to using front pistol grip. So what do people get out of them? I found them to be less steady

[C-grunt]

They work well for CQB.

[beerslurpy]

When yanking back the bolt/charging handle or just moving the gun around, it allows you to hold on to the gun easier with the forward hand.

Also, it allows you to hold it more firmly against your shoulder when moving around. I find that traditional style stocks tend to be more slippery than a big handle that sticks out.

It also positions your front hand more consistently, which allows you to maintain a sight picture with almost zero effort rather than having to keep an eye on your hand to make sure the gun doesnt start drifting and ruining the alignment of your eye with the sights.

I have a krebs side-mount grip for the AK and a TDI PDW style for the soon to be finished K45/greasegun carbine. I thought vertical foregrips were gay until I tried one. Now I think they are actually useful.

[Crosshair]

Personaly I don't have any on my weapons. I got to fire an AR with a FPG and I found it slightly quicker to get a good sight picture, but the gun was less steady overall. Personaly, I think they are overrated. Any advantage that they give is offset by their disadvantages.

Advantages:

Quicker initial sight picture.
Faster followup shots. (If you have a good forend that you can grip easily this advantage disapears.)

Disadvantages:

More difficult to shoot prone. (Not a problem with a folding FPG.)
Less steady shooting offhand.
Can snag on stuff.
Make the gun front heavy. (Yes I know they make lightweight ones, but why hang more weight up front than you have too.)

I'm not saying that they are worthless. I just don't like them and won't use them on any of my guns and I think they are overrated. If they work for you, then go ahead.

[rangerruck]

fro shooting off prone or bench, no. but for everything else, especially on the move, muzzle control, weight distribution, etc., yes. Most any pics you see of dudes in magazines, in the military or private jobs, over in the box, have them. They can't all be guessing, or going for the cool factor.

[DMK]

I have one and tried it on a few of my ARs. I couldn't warm up to it. If you are into tactical training and all kinds of CQB shooting on the move super ninja fighting stances, then maybe you'll like it better. Like Crosshair, I found it less steady for regular off hand target shooting.

[ID_shooting]

One came in a AK kit I am building. Along with the rivets and FCG, it will not make it to the end product.

[Fosbery]

For any situation when speed or handling are more important than accuracy, a vertical front grip is best. It's more comfortable, you have better latteral control over the gun and you can control recoil better. Also, there's much less heat conducted into your hand. For longer range shooting, don't use it though as more movement is transferred from your hand into the gun than when resting the gun on your hand, as you would with a standard fore end.

But you don't need to take it off. If it's moutned on a a rail system, make sure you have a heat shield behind and/or in front of the grip. This way you can switch between a vertical and standard grip depending on the situation. For guns with an integral foregrip, like a thompson SMG, there's usually enough room to hold it normally anyway, but be carfeful not to let your hand slip onto the barrel and burn yourself.

[rbernie]

Certainly, a vertical foregrip can complicate mag changes (especially with an AK-style magazine well that requires a lock-n-rotate motion.

[ryoushi]

I think they only have any real practical value if you want to hang flashlights and lasers and such off the forend.

[hksw]

I really didn't think much of them until I got to hold a fellow gun member's AR that had one. It felt to me to be a little more confortable to shoot with. When I slightly reconfigured my DPMS Lo Pro Classic with a Swan SIR up front I put a grip up there too. A little easier to hold up with the grip, IMO. I do take the grip off when shooting off of a bag on a bench with the gun.

[Selfdfenz]

Couldn't take a position in the utility of this attachment but it looks like something that might work.

However, everytime I look at a SGN ad or one of the gun rags that focus on tactical rifles I have to believe somewhere two guys in a little shop some place are drinking a bunch of beer trying to out do each other devising wacky AR front end attachments that the public will go apey over but was a total joke to them.

Just proof marketing to mall ninja's is big business :D

S-

[MTMilitiaman]

Personaly I don't have any on my weapons. I got to fire an AR with a FPG and I found it slightly quicker to get a good sight picture, but the gun was less steady overall. Personaly, I think they are overrated. Any advantage that they give is offset by their disadvantages.

Advantages:

Quicker initial sight picture.
Faster followup shots. (If you have a good forend that you can grip easily this advantage disapears.)

Disadvantages:

More difficult to shoot prone. (Not a problem with a folding FPG.)
Less steady shooting offhand.
Can snag on stuff.
Make the gun front heavy. (Yes I know they make lightweight ones, but why hang more weight up front than you have too.)

I'm not saying that they are worthless. I just don't like them and won't use them on any of my guns and I think they are overrated. If they work for you, then go ahead.

I wonder why you think they make it more difficult to shoot prone. I haven't noticed this problem with mine--possibly because a 30 round magazine is long enough that the VFG never touches the ground. Similarly, I find it made my rifle more stable from just about every position and that the weight gain is so small as to be insignificant.

When I bought my WASR, it had el cheapo wood grips that for some reason or another, some sadistic a****** had put a steel pin or nail through the front of. These grips, and the nail in particular, tended to heat up really fast and burn the crap out of your hand. Now many people just use an AK's magazine as a VFG, but me shoothing southpaw I found that sometimes at the least convenient moment, my thumb would end up in the way of the charging handle. Not only is this painful, but it can cause the weapon to malfunction. So I replaced the wood handguards with TDI synthetics, and just because the rail was there, decided to try the VFG as well. I think mine is made by SOG. At any rate, I never looked back. The only disadvantage I have found is that the Kalashnikov's rock and lock mag changes require it to be located a little farther out than most would like. I have long enough arms that this hasn't been a problem for me, and is perfectly comfortable.

So as I see it, a VFG is:

+ Cooler. Not in the tacticool sense, but in the way it keeps your hand nice and cool even when your handguard is smoking.
+ Faster and more stable in nearly every position.
+ Greater control during rapid fire.
+/- On an AK, not necessary for most as the mags do just fine, and mag changes will necessitate it be located out farther than is comfortable for most.
- Can hang up on things--a problem that would be greater if I had a lot of load bearing equipment and straps for it to get caught on.

[Mumbles_45]

I was issued one along with my M-4 when I was in a line platoon. I didn't really like it but it grew on me when I started using a light and laser, I eventually found better places to put the pressure switches for light and laser and stopped using the gangster grip. It just seems like an unnatural way to hold a rifle, it makes it feel like a paintball gun (to me, I know some/most people probably feel differently)

When I moved to the battalion sniper section I wasnt given one and later found out the section leader banned them. We have a new section leader now and he does allow them but no one uses them anyway

[Bartholomew Roberts]

If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, don't.

First, if you are just shooting from a standing position at the local firing line, the vertical grip usually doesn't add much. As Fosberry noted, it is usually more difficult to make longer ranged shots.

The areas where I have found vertical grips to really shine are in speed, movement, controlling recoil/faster split times, and holding the gun at the ready for long periods (like during training). The vertical grips do this by letting you use a "fighting stance" with the rifle. This basically lets the big muscles in your shoulders and back bear the weight instead of using bone support or the smaller muscles in your arm. Absurdly simplified - you lean forward and put your fists up like you are Jack Dempsey and then roll your elbows in to lock it down nice and tight. However, if you don't need to do any of these things or don't have a range where you can practice them, you won't get as much use out of a vertical grip.

For a long time, I never ran a vertical grip. I used a similar "boxing stance" but I used the magwell of the rifle instead of a grip. One day I was having trouble making a particular time I had set as my goal for an exercise involving two IDPA targets at 15yds and movement. Try as I might, I just couldn't consistently make the time AND not drop any points. I started experimenting and ended up grabbing the Surefire flashlight mounted on the end of the carbine handguards and using it like a stubby grip. I immediately started cleaning the targets and making my time. Even though I was using the same stance, where I gripped the rifle in that fashion made a noticeable difference.

After that experience, I went to a midlength rifle (which I was already planning on doing anyway) and made a vertical grip part of the package:
http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/AR15/midLilja.jpg

As to shooting from prone/bench, I had the same experience as MTmilitiaman. Every vertical grip I've ever seen (and the Grippod I use is one of the longest) is shorter than the 30rd mag, so no conflict ever arose unless I was trying to use a barrier to rest the handguards on.

[MTMilitiaman]

O now you did it. Now there has to be mall ninja porn:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36724&d=1141716503

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17570&d=1139954304

[DMK]

Oh, I didn't realize before that we were doing show and tell. :D

http://home.mchsi.com/~davidkoch/myarms/762x39_AR.jpg

[Roadwild17]

U do know what the ultimate FPG is right,,,


A pistole atached, I lost the link for the thing tho :banghead:

[Langenator]

DMK, is that a Franken-mag for 7.62x39?

[DMK]

DMK, is that a Franken-mag for 7.62x39?Yea. That's one of the USA 20 round mags.

I have a couple thirties also. However, they get real close to the forward vertical grip and make it cumbersome. As you can see in the picture, the 20 round mags are pretty close already.

[civlantstu]

Do SBRs count?

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=42763&stc=1&d=1153976416

:D

[JohnLINY]

civlantstu nice first post!! Sweet AR and Beta mag.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I get the feeling civlantstu worked for the Navy at one point, has been discharged and is now a student on the East coast? :D

[civlantstu]

Now THAT is an excellent guess. I believe we may have been stationed together... ;)

[Fosbery]

That's it, I'm moving to the States :p