[PJR]

Is shotshell reloading becoming the preserve of die-hard traditionalists (read old farts) and eccentrics?

Of the many shooters I know personally I can think of a handful (including me) that reload on a regular basis. Most of the younger shooters I know have never reloaded.

One of the standard acquisitions for a serious clay shooter 20 years ago was a reloader because there were real savings to be had. Today low cost 12 gauge loads like Federal Top Gun, Remington Gun Club and Winchester Super Target make reloading less attractive. Even the premium factory shells haven’t increased much in price. A box of Winchester AA doesn’t cost much more than 15 years ago.

In my own case I returned to reloading 12 gauge after a lay off of a few years because I couldn’t consistently find the target load that I wanted and because I like to make light 7/8 loads for my sxs. However, given the price of factory shells both premium and promo I’d be very reluctant to starting loading 12 gauge if I didn’t already have the equipment. It would take me many hundreds of boxes just to recoup my initial investment.

There are still genuine savings to be had loading .410 and 28 gauge but despite the delightful qualities of the 28 gauge there aren’t many people shooting it compared to the 12. In my own case I wasn’t shooting the 28 in a volume significant to justify reloading and only started when a deal on a loader came up that I couldn’t refuse.

Years ago it was common to have conversations (sometimes spirited) about the merits of various shotgun powders or hulls. Today these discussions are rare. In the old days a shooter who dropped AA hulls on the ground was either new to the sport or wealthy. Today it’s not unusual to find AA hulls scattered around the sporting clays station where I shoot and it’s not a rich man’s club by any definition.

I like reloading because it allows me to shoot what I want and not depend on what the factory wants to provide. It’s a pleasant activity and time far better spent than glued to the TV. It also provides me with a more personal connection to shotgunning and it just feels that extra touch better to shoot well with your own reloads than with factory.

It saddens me somewhat that reloading is not as popular as it once was. I’d hate to think that the new generation of shotgunners might think that American Select was a new reality show or that 700X was a porno flick.

Are you noticing the same trends? Is shotshell reloading on the decline where you shoot?

[3 gun]

I truly think you answered your own question. I do what to most shooters is a lot of shotgunning, over 3K a year, but don't reload. Value packs and loss leader sales make my level of shooting possible. The cost and space needed for a proper set up make the breaks even point far to far into the future. What would be nice is finding a veteran reloader who could show me the ropes and "trade" off press time for trips to the range or something along that thinking.

[RNB65]

Yes. I used to reload all my shotshells. Now I can get decent new shells at Wally World for $4.00 a box and spend my evenings relaxing rather than chasing shotshell components. My MEC is sitting in a box in a closet and I don't miss it.

[ArmedBear]

I've hit on a great load that's relatively cheap.

And yes, it does shoot the crap out of cheap Wally World shells, and for a bit less money, and I intuitively adjust to any distance with it. That matters when you belong to a club that's fond of Progressive Wobble rounds, Annie Oakleys, Buddy Shoots, etc. at 27 yards.

If you shoot at 16, you won't notice the difference. At 21, you probably won't. Past that, the quality of shot matters, and the velocity matters.

Reloading isn't particularly hard. If you approach it as a chore, it will seem like a chore. If it's part of the sport/hobby, it's meditative. If you make a load that works great for you, but you can't just buy from the store, then you're stuck.:)

And if you shoot super high volume, you can get some pretty good reloaders that turn out shells so fast, it's actually quicker than running to Wal-Mart.

The old guys I know who reload have the cash to buy shells. They're just really good shots who can tell the difference between crap and good shells, who want their favorite loads, and who have reloading setups that make it relatively easy anyway.

WRT Wally World's stuff, the Winchester cheapies are junk and the Federals make me cough. Remingtons are far and away the best, but they're usually a tad more money, too, and more likely to be sold out at the local store.

[MCgunner]

Light loads at Wallyworld are too cheap. I never cared much for shot shell reloading anyway. There's no exterior ballistics to mess with, or not as technical. I always got off to the drop tables, remaining energy, etc, with rifle loading and striving for accuracy and such. You don't get into that with shot shells. And, you have to stick directly to the recipe right down to the brand and model of wad and such. It's reloading for the mentally handicapped. :rolleyes: IOW, it ain't no fun. Now, it ain't even cheap! The final straw for me, because 80 percent of my shotgunning is for waterfowl, was steel shot. I ain't gonna mess with steel shot. And, the price of steel shot loads has come down, too.

[ArmedBear]

you have to stick directly to the recipe right down to the brand and model of wad and such.

No wonder you quit.:p

[Hoppy590]

its funny you mentioned it. im looking into starting to reload, not as my main source of ammo but as a supplement/ something to do. im a young guy, and fairly new to shotgunning in general. sure i used to do my fair share of turkey shoots and once tried trap (wich i sucked at). i believe i talked my dad into trying some pheasant hunting

anyway. i believe as people get more interested in the process of 'gunnin. the technology,the processes,and the history over the guns themselves and shiney things, interest in reloading might return.

[Father Knows Best]

Reloading shotshells is indeed not cost effective for most shooters, even those who shoot "a lot" of trap, skeet and clays. A decent progressive press set-up is expensive to begin with, and component costs (and the hassle of getting them, depending on where you live) can be significant. Then you need the space to set it all up, and the time to use it! When you can buy decent factory loads for $3/box, why bother?

That said(tm), I reload shotshells. I do it for two reasons. First and foremost -- I enjoy it. My wife says that I shoot to support my reloading hobby. Reloading is "my time" alone in the basement, away from the kids. I enjoy turning out handcrafted ammo, whether it is pistol cartridges for practice and action games (I load thousands upon thousands annually on a Dillon RL550B) or rifle rounds (RCBS Rockchucker) or shotshells (Dillon SL900). I take pride in doing it myself, and that pride is worth something even if I don't see a penny in monetary savings.

The second reason is that I'm a black powder freak, and black powder ammo is hard to find and very expensive when you do find it. Black powder shotshells are only available in limited loads from a couple of sources, and cost $12/box and up. I assemble several custom loads for a fraction of that cost.

Like you, I've noticed how easy it is to get premium hulls these days. Back in the 1970s, I was a "pit boy" at the local trap and skeet club. Everyone reloaded back then, including my dad. Most guys saved their hulls. My last job at the end of a night of shooting was to reload the throwers in the skeet houses, and then collect whatever hulls were left laying around the trap and skeet fields. The club bagged and sold the hulls to reloaders.

When I started shooting trap and skeet again a few years back, I was shocked that nobody seemed to be saving their hulls. At first, I asked a few guys if I could have their AA's or STS's, and was thrilled when they said yes. Then I realized that nobody but me wanted them. When the club cleans up, all of the hulls on the ground just go in the trash! I went out one morning and collected almost a thousand new-looking AA hulls from the fields and the sporting clays course.

[ArmedBear]

BTW I have no particular desire to reload for hunting. I don't go through enough #6 shells to make it worthwhile to buy a bag of shot. Steel, even less so.

For around $3.75/box total -- less than the CHEAPEST crap shells at Wally World here -- I shoot shells that work better for me than STS, with top-quality shot in them. STS costs me close to $6/box at Wal-Mart, with sales tax. And I enjoy it. My time may be worth more, but I don't really want to lie on the counch anyway; it's a hobby, not just a frugal chore.

[dfaugh]

Like someone else said, i think you've answered your own question. I remember when I first start shooting (circa 1971) a box of shotshells wan maybe $3.00 or a little less. Now they are $4 or less...So the cost hasn;t increased much at all. I can see reloading if you shoot ALOT, but for many people is' probably not economiacly viable.

[sm]

PJR,

Great Post and great questions.

Personally I am "semi-retired" from Reloading. Meaning, being an older returning student with time retraints, I do not shoot , compete as I once did. Nor do I assist with the numbers of folks in instruction or even hunting.

I do still assist with a smaller select group of students. It is NOT about me shooting as this "dimension" in my life, instead it is about passing forward as passed to me.


Reloading is part of what I pass forward.

Scroll down to "Reloading" on a recent post I did at TFL.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2042697&postcount=8

Reloading was passed forward to me in many ways; as the link shares.

Mentors used Reloading to "fit the loading to tasK" , such as teaching me / others how to shoot, understand patterns, pattern density, how it really does NOT matter what a barrel or choke is marked - instead what the pattern board reveals [both a stationary and moving pattern boards] and so much more.

It helps to understand the time of which I grew up, the loadings of that time, and the fact we did NOT have screw in chokes.

Shotguns were fixed choked, usually barrel lengths followed along these lines:
26" = Skeet, IC, 28" = Mod, and 30" = Full .

Us "old guys" grew up with "less" is it often said in regard to being "poor", less offerings in loads, guns, and features in/ on guns.
I disagree.

Less is More

We grew up learning to shoot. Learning included Reloading, gun fit , correct basic fundamentals and so forth.

I have typed many times " one cannot buy skill and targets".

Hey, when you grow up poor, and the offerings are less, not having any money and not a whole to spend money on if you had it, is a Great Learning Experience.
I'm dead serious!

Reloading allows one to learn a LOT of lessons, including being better educated on buying factory ammo.

For instance I am very familar with the Duck Capitol of World. Before Steel shot was mandated, a very "popular" idea was using # 7.5 shot on ducks.

Why? If one reloads , they know why. Most folks bought a 30" full choked gun for everything. The shell components of the time were different , even as reloading components.

WE had soft shot and had hard shot.

Folks used #7.5 shot in flooded timber because the shot deformed and offered a more open pattern with density to fell ducks.

Over Dekes, Folks use chilled/ soft shot in #5 and #6, with full chokes.

I was often known to use a 28 ga with #5 with a Sk or IC :p

I was "mentored" to not sky bust.

---

I have said many times, there is nothing wrong with all the advances that have been made in shotguns and ammo. Still I feel many should learn the correct basic fundamentals with a bone stock fixed choked IC or Mod barrel.

They would HAVE to learn the correct basic fundamentals - including Reloading.

Shotgun Shell Reloading would decrease a HUGE amount of questions on forums.

We "stacked loads". Meaning we KNEW how to get a w-i-d-e open pattern for flushing quail from a full or mod fixed choked barrel for first shot , and the second loading, a bit tighter for follow up shot.

Today, Reloading is being "lost" as so many other skills are being "lost" and not passed forward.

Marketing , Parents/ Adults too busy "existing" and not "living" life, political tones in regard to shooting in Media, Schools, Business, areas available to shoot, and ...
Single parent families : time, money, needing a mentor, and no mentors stepping up to the plate.

Reloading is also affected by some of the sports folks particpate in , such as those using slugs, and buckshot.

I still step up to the plate and mentor, including Reloading. Including buckshot loadings and slugs, the easiest being the round ball by Ballistic Products.

Paul,
You and I are probably from the same era. We remember the Cold War, Cuba pointing missles at the US , JFK being shot in Dallas and then GCA of '68.

Reloading was part of what folks did along with everything else in being self reliant.

I never got into Metallic reloading, no good excuse other than I did a lot of Shotgun Shell reloading and research. I did load shotgun shells and folks did my metallic, how we did things.

Reloading I have passed forward and yes I have folks that do my reloading for me, once I get them up and running. I turned into my "mentors" :p

Still, I have single moms with single stage MEC Reloaders that if all heck breaks loose, no shotgun ammo in the stores, no reloading components can be found...

They can take small game for food with pellet loads, they have the abilty to make buckshot loads , and the abilty to make Slug loads to fell a deer, or shoot thru a windshield or vehicle door in a defensive situation.

Back to simple , correct basic fundamentals in being self reliant.

Steve

[45auto]

I think the "new shells" might catch up to all the price increases "we" reloaders have gone through the last several years.

It wouldn't surprise me that reloading has a "come back" at some point.

[Crosshair]

I'm only 22 years old, yet I reload *counts on his hands* 6 rifle/pistol calibers and I am getting dies for more. I don't reload shotgun shells simply because I am not much of a shotgunner. The local Cabelas sees good sales in shotshell reloading stuff though. So somebody is reloading them.

[ArmedBear]

I started out muzzleloading, when I first learned to shoot. I guess that the notion of buying lead, powder, primers and wads just doesn't seem odd to me.

Shooting can easily become just another expensive consumer activity, rather than a sport/hobby/skill. Reloading is part of "keepin' it real.":D

[Oldnamvet]

When lead shot was $14/25LBs I reloaded every shotshell I had. Now, I have to pay nearly $25/25LBs so only the occasional reloading session for special loads - like a 3/4 oz 12 gauge load. Components (mainly shot) just priced it out of the market for me. The stores that used to carry shot also don't anymore since they sell so little. You have to put in an order and you'll get it in the next few weeks. I just buy my shells by the case at Dunham's, get a discount for competition shooters, and toss the hulls in the trash basket (we pick up our empties every session).

[halvey]

I had a steel shot reloader until recently. Cost me more to reload than buy off the shelf and the patterns aren't any worse.

[oletymer]

I feel sorry for most reloaders as far a component costs. I am lucky enough to live in Washington and we have a supplier who is much cheaper than I see posters listing. The big one is shot, still 15.99 a bag in lots of 1000 lbs.

[MCgunner]

I started out muzzleloading, when I first learned to shoot.

Hmm, well, by the time I started shooting, they'd invented the metallic cartridge. :p I am old enough to have started with paper hulls, though.

Another thing about handloads and hunting is, duck hunting the marsh, you need waterproof ammunition. Modern loads can be submerged and still will fire. When you're trippin' around in the marsh mud, that's a good thing.

[Lawyerman]

I am not much of a shotgunner. I shoot alot of defensive type shotguns and make 3-4 trips afield a year to hunt doves or pheasants, sometimes geese. I burn alot of promotional shells in training. With the cost of components and time.....I see no reason to reload shotshells. Now, I understand shortage etc....that's why when they close out the shells at Walmart or Academy at the end of hunting season I literally fill a cart. I dunno how many cases of shotgun shells I have, it is several dozen anyhow. At $35 a case, why not? More than I will ever shoot.

I reload probably 20 metallic rounds but usually in large runs that basically last me a year of shooting. The Dillon 1050 cranks them out over a long weekend and I'm done for the year with all the ammo I can shoot.

I do understand what guys are saying about the knowledge factor though. You are right, when all you have is a 30" gun with a full choke.....you make it work somehow. The process of learning how to make it work will make you a better shooter. These days though, with the gear I have, all I do is consult the info. on the box of shells about what I am hunting, screw in the right choke and go blasting. I like short barrels, I don't think there is any advantage at all to anything over 28" and truthfully 26". All the powder burns in the first 20", the rest makes it swing a little better but it also grabs on every bush and car door, make mine short!

[GRP]

It still makes sense to reload today. If you are into shooting the 410 or 28 gauge it's almost a necessity, at somewhere near $9.00 box. Shooting Sporting Clays with a 410 is a hoot. A Mec 9000G is a great reloader, it cost $300.00, your saving about $5.00 a box, if you shoot a lot it wouldn't take long to pay for itself. Also you still have value in the reloader when you want to sell it. It takes about 15-20 minutes to load 100 rounds.

[ArmedBear]

I don't reload for hunting, really. I'd rather be able to toss the dirty shells before I go home, and it's more economical to just buy a few boxes of what I need than get bags of different sized shot, etc.

Trap league is my main reason for reloading. And the reloader was free, plus the cost of some bushings and a couple of charge bars (which were close to free).

My shells are equivalent to STS Handicaps, roughly. Arguably, I use better primers. I'm saving about $2 a box. Can I earn more than that? Well, yeah. But again, it keeps me in touch with what I'm doing, more than just buying whatever junk shells they have at Wal-Mart.

[Lawyerman]

I think that's exactly what the original post was about.....if you are shooting something that is not mainstream- 16ga, .410, 28 etc....or shooting to make the Olympic team then it makes sense. But, if all you are doing is hunting 3-4x a year, even if you shoot a case of shells in those outings, if you are shooting a 20 or 12, reloading makes no sense. That's how I see it.

Now, if mucking with things is what you like to do and you are going to mess with the smallbores etc...then it's probably worth doing but for the average guy, Walmart promos are the way to go.

[JohnBT]

"If you are into shooting the 410 or 28 gauge it's almost a necessity, at somewhere near $9.00 box."

I keep meaning to get a 28 ga. setup, but I've discovered the simple act of buying a box or three of 28 ga. shells means you get to see every gun in the place. They figure if you're buying 28's then you're either rich enough or foolish enough to buy another gun.

I can have more hours of fun in a gun store by buying a $7 or $8 box of shells than I ever would spending that amount on a movie ticket or a drink at a bar. I'm serious, I've gone from just another regular gun buying customer to "Would you like to look at all these $5k and $10k guns?" Heck, they don't even ask, they just start shoving them at me.

If I don't hurry up and buy a reloading setup I'm going to have to have a BIG hull sale on ebay. The AAHS's are piling up on me.

John..."Where's the 28 ga. patches at guys?"

[BozemanMT]

My wife and I reload
WE get nice wimpy 1oz loads that shoot beautifully and are clean.
Sure, I can get Estates for about 3.25 a box plus tax and AA or STS's run about 5.00 to 5.50 a box
But, my reloads cost me about $3.10 a box the first time with the hulls
After that, they are $2.25 a box (AA's seem to load 3 to 4 times, STS's load more than that, haven't peaked on those yet)
And these are the equivilent of AA or STS, not the dirty Estates or Federal Blue box.

We can do 500 to 600 an hour on a MEC 9000G and we have more than already paid for that.
I know all my loads are the same and clean.

I don't know why high volume shooters wouldn't reload.
Their loss I suppose.

My one buddy doesn't reload, he shoots the AA gray hulls (which are sweet), we buy the hulls from him for 3cents a piece. Deal for everyone.

[ArmedBear]

Bozeman-

Cheap Remington hulls -- not STS's -- reload 8 times or so. STS are good for a lot more than that.

I don't pay for hulls; there's always a newer shooter who buys Gun Clubs and tosses them in the buckets or gives them to someone. Hell, sometimes even STS's, but Gun Clubs are damn good. I don't even pick up brand new AA's for free.

Winchester primers, though, I'll pay for...:)

[Dave McCracken]

Even with the latest increases, my pet load for clays still runs about $3.25 a box. Sure I could get some cheap stuff for that and save my time, but they wouldn't be as good a load.

And I've not seen a good cheap 7/8 oz load yet. Oz loads, yes.

And, I like reloading. It's like fly tying, an auxilary hobby that provides stress relief.

An hour slaving away over the Grabber leaves me with some knots unkinked in my back and neck.

Reloading's not for everyone, but it's an option all should consider....

[OldSchooler]

When I was a kid my dad taught me to reload shotshells - and pistol and rifle shells too. It was just something we did. that was the 60's.

Today the price of shotshells hasn't really gone out of sight, proportionally, as many here have said. You can still get 'em cheap. Just like the Mossberg 500, they're a great value. I have boxes full of shells I bought at sales here and there. I doubt I could shoot em all up in a week.

Guess what Im buying this year? Yep - shotshell reloading gear, likely one of those Lee Load -All jobs, like my dad used to have. I just like to do it! I dont care about the money saved, or not - it is satisfying to me. Im also getting up the gear to reload metallic, as well. Just for the joy of it.

It may be a dying art and I may be headed for extinction, but I'll go there shootin my own shells.

[Third_Rail]

Since the bulk of my shooting with shotguns is in .410, I'll be reloading all the hulls I've saved so far. $8/25 can be easily beat by reloading, I'd wager.

[Scoupe]

Heh, I simply can't afford NOT to reload. Two competitve skeet shooters in the house. We go through a flat of 28g or .410 per practice session 3-4 times a week. On competition weekends we go through almost 4 flats of ammo. Last 8lb jug of Longshot lasted me less than 6 weeks. Same for a sleeve of primers.

As for the "price wash" for 20g and 12g, well, it ain't quite so. At the volumes we shoot, it still is worth saving the <$1.00 per box. Plus, I don't care for the cheapie ammo as much my own stuff.

And, I just like reloading. It's part of the whole shotgunning experience for me.

[ArmedBear]

Again, when you shoot some VERY competitive wacky events like Annie Oakleys, chip shoots, buddy shoots, etc., for prizes and for your sacred honor, from 27 yards (sometimes farther back if there is a shoot-off), those lowball Wal-Mart shells just don't cut it. So, compared to the equivalent STS Golds, my handloads are a lot cheaper, and they even work a hair better for me.

If you just shoot an occasional round of trap from 16 yards, well, you won't know the difference unless you get Winchesters that won't feed in your gun, or Federals that make you cough if you blow out the barrel.:p

[birddog]

And, I like reloading. It's like fly tying, an auxilary hobby that provides stress relief.

An hour slaving away over the Grabber leaves me with some knots unkinked in my back and neck.

Reloading's not for everyone, but it's an option all should consider....

Amen.

My brother-in-law and I (Mantis, here on THR) talk about this all the time. It is a great stress-reliever, and enjoyable on several levels. It requires focus, and -- even if only for a short time -- offers a little escape.

Right now, my passion is for shooting and reloading .45's and .44 mags. I still have my MEC Jr set up for shot shells, though. Back when my wife and I were shooting Clays every weekend, it was well worth my while to reload those Winchester AA shells. Now, I load up a few hundred a year for pheasant and woodcock hunting. Most of my reloading time is spend on .44, 45, and .357, but I still like to fire up the shotshell reloader from time to time over the winter to keep the hunting vest stoked in the coming season.

[GRP]

In my opinion reloading is not just about saving money, it is truly a part of the shooting experience. Everybody I shoot with reloads. It's a topic of its own after the shoot with a brew or two. So, if you realy are into shooting, reloading will give more enjoyment to the sport

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d166/brittanyman/DSC_0044.jpg

[Cribbage]

Plus, if you appreciate GOOD ammo and what it can do for you (accuracy, velocity and consistancy DO matter in shotshells as much as metallic), you'll shy away from those loss-leaders and Wally-World specials.

Last time I checked, they frequently used reclaimed shot, and this is even more likely now with the cost of lead the way it is.

You might as well shoot square shot as shoot reclaimed. Never mind the mess the budget powders leave in the barrel.

I shoot 28 gauge exclusively, and I won't even mess with the Estates. I can still save money over $6/box, and have vastly better rounds.

Cribbage

[tube_ee]

I reload, I'm not a high-volume shooter, and I shoot a 12 gauge. Why? Because I can make a better shell for a bit less money than I can buy. Switching from 1oz promo loads to a 1 1/8 oz handload improved my scores noticably, like 3-4 birds per round. I was averaging 14/25, with a best of 16. Now, it's more like 17/25 avg, with a best of 23. I don't shoot any more than before, I'm just breaking more birds.

My reloads cost about $3.00 / box, maybe a bit more. That's about a buck cheaper than promos, and about 2 bucks cheaper than 1 1/8 oz feild loads. The time is free, as I wouldn't be spending it on money-generating activities anyway.

For me, it makes sense, and I enjoy doing it.

--Shannon

[Dave McCracken]

Good thread. I'd add to it more but the MEC dowstairs is whispering my name.

Later....

[HKGuns]

I reload Pistol and Shotgun. Most serious shotgunners I know reload regularly.

[PJR]

Interesting comments and thanks to those who've contributed so far. To those that suggested I answered my own question I agree but my point was to find out if my conclusions are unique to where I live. It seems they aren't. For the most part reloading has become the preserve of subgauge shooters, high volume competitors, those who want different and better choices of ammo and/or those of us who feel more in touch with shotgunning when we roll their own.

There have also been several posters who are quite content to shoot the promo loads. I know many shooters who do that and some of them do very well with them. FWIW, I despite the Federal Top Gun but the Winchester Super Target isn't bad stuff IMHO. I wouldn't feel handicapped shooting sporting clays with this load provided I had a box of premium, hard-shot loads for longer shots.

A question to the folks loading 12 and 20 who are high volume shooters. To load high volume pretty much requires a progressive press. Purchased new a MEC 9000 with a good scale and accessories would be around $400. The savings are around $1.00 per box meaning it would take 10,000 rounds just to recoup your initial investment. If you didn't have the equipment already would you make the investment today?

[TrapperReady]

PJR - I've started responding to this thread a few times, but have been interrupted each time. In any event, my reloading has really tapered off over the past couple years. It started with a large purchase of cheap (but decent patterning) ammo. I used that for practice and league stuff and picked up some flats of premium stuff for competition.

A little over a year ago, I started shooting registered events. It's been time-consuming and frequently means time away from my family. I don't want to spend even more time away from them, squirreled away in a corner of the basement reloading. Therefore, this year I purchased another even larger quantity of shells, and am looking to get a pallet-load delivered before the end of the year.

I like reloading. I like the cost savings (premium ammo at value-pack prices), the ability to tailor a load to a specific need, and even the plain-old process. I don't like the time it takes... I'd rather be spending time with my kids and wife or out on a course (or both :)).

That said, I have been doing a little reloading recently and am planning on doing more once the hunting season starts and the clays season tapers off.

Regarding your question:


If you didn't have the equipment already would you make the investment today?


I think so. I use a MEC 9000G that a friend sold to me for a song, and it paid for itself within a year. Since I'm currently shooting upwards of 10K per year, another progressive would make good sense.

In fact, when my new gun arrives (with all the sub-gauge tubes), I'm probably going to pick up a 28ga 9000G and a couple Sizemasters in .410 and 20ga.

[BozemanMT]

A question to the folks loading 12 and 20 who are high volume shooters. To load high volume pretty much requires a progressive press. Purchased new a MEC 9000 with a good scale and accessories would be around $400. The savings are around $1.00 per box meaning it would take 10,000 rounds just to recoup your initial investment. If you didn't have the equipment already would you make the investment today?

I figure the savings are closer to a $1.50 vs AA/STS (3.25 the first time)
But the 2nd time, the savings are closer to 2.50 (hulls are free the 2nd time, 3rd time, etc). but doesn't matter.

We bought all our stuff last august (get married to a gun nut, see what happens)
We have already rolled over 18,000 rounds.:what:

Yeah, I'd say it's paid for itself.
already.
And it should last for 100,000 rounds and more I would expect.

[GRP]

Don't forget the residule value of your equipment. Even a beat up 9000 will fetch a couple hundred dollors.

[sm]

All these threads about TEOTWAWKI , Ammo supplies being out, no way to get ammo, or components.

I was born in '55, JFK shot in '63, GCA of '68, Add Cold War, Missles being pointed at us by Cuba...

I grew up with Folks, them Mentors and Elders I mention often, being self reliant.

All these Threads today - folks back when, and before me, were doing all this stuff already to be self reliant.

Folks did not "just to the corner gun store" and for sure did not order off the Internet. Some only came to town twice a month.

Folks hoarded Single Shot Shotguns and had supplies to reload pellet and slug loads.
Even back then folks did slugs , even the simple ones, which are still very effective similar to some on this page - just the simple round ball.
http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/products.asp?dept=71

LOTs of .22 ammo, for single shot .22 rifles, and Medium frame revlovers, 1911 and all - Them simple hand held Lee Reloaders stuck back. Duplicates, old trade ins, pawn shop finds...hoarded.

I gravitated to shotguns, I never got into metallic. Still, folks always had a way to reload ammo.

Always kept stores put back to reload ammo. WE didn't know what all may happen.

No Gubmint to call on 911, did not have 911. Tornado come thru, and too many times canned goods, water, guns, ammo, and reloading stuff taken to and used by victims.

Why we hoarded. Someones house / area hit / gets tossed to pcs, and the guns in it, or the barns are gone...WE were neighborly . This was recipricated.

I mean a simple single stage MEC wiil make a round ball slug that will take a deer, I have done it, and seen it happen to many times. Pellet loads for game, for food...

The hardware store is gone, the bait shop is gone...All that ammo they had is gons...house is gone and you are guarding what you have ...with a borrowed gun, ammo given and the means to make more.


I was big enough to shoot a 28 ga. Single shot shotgun by myself. Mentor hands me a reload, and tells me to shoot the door off an wrecked Desota [ Car make at the time].
Yep, that 28 ga round ball slug went thru that old, heavy metal door.

"Why?"
"Because the looters may be shooting at you and using that car door as cover, you may have to stop a serious threat, get them to stop shooting folks with that 28 ga single shot you can handle"

"Oh! Can I shoot some more please".
'Yep, then we gonna show you how to make more"
"Oh boy!"

How raised - what you do.

[Grayrock]

I recently stated reloading 20ga because I could not find specialty ammo I wanted to afford. I picked up a used MEC Jr. for $35 and now roll my own blackpowder shells for a lot cheaper than I can purchase them. Not to mention availability- blackpowder shells are hard to find.

[sm]

Grayrock,

Good point! I forgot about you BP shotgunners, I apologize.

I need to read up on BP shotgun loads...

[arcticap]

I would never criticize anyone's decision whether to reload or not. I shoot a fairly small amount of trap and significantly less than half of the shooters I've met reload. They describe the potential savings and it's really not significant, nor are the trap results noticiably different. Maybe some guns would benefit from reloaded shells, but most newer model guns shoot the cheaper fodder just fine, especially with a long barrel, backbored barrel and extended choke tube. As much as I wouldn't mind trying reloading, it would be an economically foolhardy decision for me to invest even more money on shells for very little if any improvement in score. Of course I'm talking about 12 gauge or 20 gauge only, and I don't shoot enough .410's hunting.
There's some Yale trap team members who come to shoot for summer practice, and they have to pay for their own practice ammo. And you know what they shoot? WalMart loads, and they shoot just as well if not a little bit better on average than everyone else, many whom also shoot promo loads. And even the guns don't matter very much as far as being expensive or fancy.
The club shooters buy a big pallet of shot once in a while, or else the prices are just too steep to provide any cost benefit.
We're shooting for fun and recreation, not for serious competition.
To make another analogy, when people shoot .22 bullseye, some guns shoot the cheap standard velocity ammo better than the expensive ammo. The league keeps enough statistics to make it easy to figure out, it's often more the shooter and the gun than the ammo.
So, I hope everyone understands that it's often both the scores and the overall costs that keep hobby & recreational shooters from considering becoming serious reloaders. It's not a criticism, it's just the way it seems to be.
And when the sport gets to be too expensive or there is a future disruption in supplies, I'll shoot my muzzle loaders without any hulls or cartridge cases! :D

[Oldnamvet]

Blackpowder shotgun has a lot to recommend it. Every load can be customized for the conditions (i.e. spreader loads for skeet #8), different shot sizes in each barrel, etc. Even though I don't reload much for my regular shotguns, for my bp double, I get a lot of action. It also slows down a skeet match somewhat but people enjoy watching it go off so don't mind the slowdown usually.

[FloatingChamber]

What a fantastic thread!
I have been handloading (shotgun) since 1962. Nothing has ever been cheap in this little country of ours - all of our governments, whatever their political colour have been corrupt and tax us to the hilt to pay for deadbeats and scroungers. Saying that, you will not be surprised that shotshells in 1962 were EXPENSIVE. It was not until the 70's when I started visiting and shooting at USAAF airbases that I realised how much we were being ripped off in the UK. By this time Eley was forced to close for months, after a horrendous explosion that killed four key staff.Cannuck shells were rushed in from CIL along with reclaimed 4BP primers. Red Dot powder became the norm!

Newly made friends at these bases supplied us with Win AA shells at silly prices. (Our purchase tax on 'luxury' goods at that time was 33%!) We could shoot for less than half price! I tell you, Texan presses, Remy 1100's, ammo, lead shot, powder, primers, wads - you name it - flowed through those gates!

In 1973, while on such a visit to USAAF Bentwaters in Suffolk, I shot Skeet with homemade shot. When I mentioned it and opened a shell to reveal the said pellets with a re-used AA wad, the comment from a pilot was: "Buddy, you really are in a bad way here."

I miss those days!

[ryan56507@msn.com]

Around here, the 28?? gauge is very rare so a guy i know, he buys like a thousand cases and shoots them as he would anyway, but then he sells the empty shells on ebay and gets half his money back just from that.

I know a few people that reload shot shells and it is definatly overpriced, but I believe for the sake of conservation and such that it is a good practice.

Many here have expressed that it is cheaper to buy new shells, that wal-mart has them for 4 or 5 bucks a box... to this I laugh, your getting ripped off even at that price, lol, seriously i wouldnt pay more that 3 bucks a box. but no matter.

Happy shooting

[gbell]

I am 20 and have been reloading for several years know. I reload Shotshells and .308.I have been around shotshell reloading all of my life, my dad reloaded, so i used his formula unitl i got old enough to work my own. .308 because it allows me to make a custom load for my deer rifles. my only problem is that reloading equipment is about 150 miles away.


and like Scoupe said,
I just like reloading. It's part of the whole shotgunning experience for me.

[dmarbell]

I walked into a gun shop today and bought everthing needed to reload 7/8 oz. target loads, except the AA hulls, which my Dad already has. He also has a MEC 600 Jr. reloader. I bought one bushing and a new bar for the 7/8 loads, and I'm not including those in the costs. I don't know the cost of hulls, but was told to use about $0.10 each, and I figured with light loads they can be used about 4 times each. All costs below include 7% NC Sales Tax.

Powder - Hodgdon Clays, 14 oz., 18 grain charge makes 340 shells
$20.28 divided by 388 = $0.060 each

Shot - 25 lbs. of #8 magnum, 7/8 oz. load makes 457 shells
$34.19 divided by 457 = $0.075 each

Wads - $7.06 for 250 = $0.028 each

Primers - $4.23 for 100 = $.042 each

Subtotal without hulls = $0.205

Hulls $0.107 each with 4 uses = $.027 each

Total cost = $0.232

Cost per box $5.80 ($5.125 without the hulls)

Does this seem about right? Are there alternative sources for shot and powder, on the 'net, other than beating up on my local vendors? This might be ok for my 16 gauge gun, but doesn't seem worthwhile for my 12's. I'll have fun with my Dad reloading the stuff, and the light target loads will be ok, but we also wasted a gallon of gas and an hour going to the store. Oh, and I was a gnat's eyelash from buying another gun while in the store, so that cost probably needs to be included!! ;^)

Danny

[BozemanMT]

good gawd:fire:
you need to find another store
i walk into sportsman warehouse and walk out

25lbs of shot for $21
1000 Win209 primers (or CCI's) for $25
8lbs of Clays for $96
Hulls I get for 3 cents each (sometimes I'll pay 4 cents for STS's, but not for AA's, the MOST i have ever seen hulls for was $7/100)
Wads are $5/250 (20/1000)

plus sales tax.

your prices are outrageous, don't buy there anymore.

[Dave McCracken]

My costs are similar to BozemanMT's.

Wads are $16/1000 for the Claybuster clones.

West Coast shot runs about $23/25 lbs.

Winchester primers, $23/1000.

My hulls are free, or recycled from new rounds bought and shot.

Also good hulls will last longer than 4 reloads. Mine are trashed after 5 or 6, but I could go 10 times if I didn't mind degradation of the pattern.

[PJR]

Powder - Hodgdon Clays, 14 oz., 18 grain charge makes 340 shells
$20.28 divided by 388 = $0.060 each

Shot - 25 lbs. of #8 magnum, 7/8 oz. load makes 457 shells
$34.19 divided by 457 = $0.075 each

Wads - $7.06 for 250 = $0.028 each

Primers - $4.23 for 100 = $.042 each

Subtotal without hulls = $0.205

Hulls $0.107 each with 4 uses = $.027 each

Total cost = $0.232

Cost per box $5.80 ($5.125 without the hulls)

Does this seem about right?
No it doesn't. I don't know where you are buying but you are getting hosed plain and simple. For starters 10 cents for a 12 gauge hull is about double the going rate. Everything else you are buying is also grossly over priced.

The best advice is to buy in bulk. You'd be surprised how quickly a thousand primers or 8lbs. of powder will get used up.;)

For some price comparisons try this site (and these guys are not necessarily the cheapest around either).

http://www.grafs.com/index.php

[dmarbell]

OK, so I got hosed on my first purchase of reloading stuff. I'll shop around and do better next time. By the way, I found the name of someone nearby who teaches reloading, so maybe he can shed light on the best suppliers near me.

Can you buy the stuff online? It looks like shipping powder is dicey, but what about shot (too heavy?), hulls and wads.

By the way, I haven't located 7/8 oz. target loads near me anyway. So the price of my hosing, with the hulls sitting unused in my Dad's garage, isn't going to kill my enthusiasm. I get to spend time with him reloading, get the reloader out of mothballs, use up the hulls, and actually learn to do something useful. Probably not a bad investment, versus saving a nickel at Wally World!!

Thanks for all the support, all you guys (and gals).

Danny

[PJR]

The best way to find out where components are cheapest is to ask at the local shotgun club. Some times there are vendors at clubs that have very low prices and if not the regulars will be able to point you in the right direction.

[dmarbell]

I wanted to report back. I reloaded 8 boxes on Sunday, which was plenty in 90+ degree heat in my Dad's un-a/c'd garage out back. Especially on the single stage loader!

One thing - my new 7/8 bar was loading about 365 grains of shot, instead of 382+ indicated. Based on my calculations, 407 #8 magnum per ounce of shot, I am about 15-16 shot short per shell.

Why would this have been happening? Is it something I should try to change, or be worried about? The powder was coming out 18-19 grains, Clays with a 33 bushing shooting for 18.2 per the Hodgdon book. I'm hoping if the scale was off, it was off at the high end of the measurement, that is, the shot, and not a the low end, the powder.

By the way, the wad was just about full to the top after dropping the shot, and the crimps looked good.

I had a ball with my Dad, so that investment was worth the extra cash (based on my hosing on prices, per the previous posts). I have feelers out for local sources of components at good prices. Dick's has 1 oz. loads on sale for $2.98 per box at case purchase prices.

Danny

[TrapperReady]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data which is provided purely for informations purposes and may contain errors. Always use published sources for reloading data, NOT the data contained in this post. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


If the charge bar is throwing a little light, I don't worry about it. A dozen or so pellets isn't going to make a big difference, so just pattern what you've got and see how it works. You may want to see what it drops with a variety of shot sizes and see how they compare, just out of curiousity.

I tend to be more concerned about the powder weight. For specific loads, you can tune a bushing with either strips of tape (to reduce volume) or a judiciously applied round file (to increase volume). If I'm a couple tenths of a grain UNDER, then I'll leave as is. If I'm OVER, and the load is a maximum one, then I'll add some strips of electrical tape inside the bushing until it registers how I want.

It's one reason why I usually try to load "middle of the road" loads, where there's at least one loading listed with more powder and one load listed with less powder than the one I'm using. When you're not operating at the extremes, you've got a little more leeway.

For example (from www.hodgdon.com):

A 7/8 oz load I often use is:

Remington STS Hull
7/8 oz. shot (typically #8.5)
Clays powder
Rem. 209P primer
Rem. TGT 12 wad

The powder charges are listed as:

16.4 gr / 6,300 PSI - 1200 fps
17.5 gr / 7,100 PSI - 1250 fps
18.9 gr / 7,400 PSI - 1300 fps

Now, when I load this, my bushing is throwing about 17.8-18.0 grains of powder. I'm aiming for the 1250fps load, but the data shows a safe (yet max) load of 18.9 grains. I could monkey with the bushing, but since it patterns well and is within safe parameters, I leave it as is.

I've got a favorite load for pheasants, which is driving 1 1/4oz of #5s at a high rate of speed. It's safe as is, but a max load... so I load those very carefully and weigh each and every powder charge.

[redneck2]

I tried to get into reloading for my 10 gauge with Hevi-Shot. Cheaper to buy factory stuff. I had a dealer that would sell me a loader for $50. He said it was a bad deal because he'd sell me the factory stuff cheaper.

FWIW...We have a couple of guys here that shoot a lot and buy shot in multiple ton lots

[Hawk]

I don't really want to lie on the counch anyway; it's a hobby, not just a frugal chore.

I'll second that.

I got back into it a little less than a year ago.

FWIW, I probably should have gotten the updated 600Jr I had "back when". A full progressive does remove some of the "zen factor". Nonetheless, I believe my blood pressure is lower after I've been reloading.

If you can't justify reloading based on cost, try buying a 28.

[fordman650]

started shooting shotguns less then a year ago bought my first one for $50 and then got hooked my son said let's go out to the range and check it out
got hooked,sons freind let him borrow a mec jr and he started reloading he got hooked i was surfing ebay and looking at mec reloaders first mistake bought three 2 mec jr and a grabber got hooked this doesn't save me much money because i shot more now and it is away to just concentrate on one thing instead of sitting in front of the tv,remington gunclub and target load
reload great also do sts's,i agree with you AB winchester primers are the only way to go,shot is $15.50 for 25 lbs here and then again again i GOT HOOKED
great hobby

[fordman650]

got carried away and didn't put in there what i started out to say,i think lots of people are reloading just go on ebay and follow just the mec loaders and see how fast they are going usually 80 or so in there all the time