Guns of Yesteryear

Hey folks,

I've got a question for those more knowledgeable in all things metallurgical (if that's even a word)! :D I've got a Winchester Model 94 Trails End that I've had restocked in fine walnut and casehardened -- more likely case colored, but I'm not sure (receiver only). Thing is, I like to run warmer .45 Colt loads through both firearms pictured below, and I've got a question regarding such. I know well that the Ruger can take reloads whose power far exceeds most factory loaded ammunition. I also know (at least based on statements from folks like Buffalo Bore regarding their .45 Colt ammunition) that the Winchester Model 94 can take these warmer loads as well.

Well, I've got a couple "Ruger Only" handloads I've loaded from the Hodgdon reloading manual that consist of minimum charges of H-110 yielding 27,000 CUP. This load (pictured) pushes a 250 grain HP-XTP around 1300 from pistol barrels. Maximum loads listed for the .30-.30 yield around 35,000 CUP -- therfore, I wouldn't think there would be any problem just considering this, right? However, I remember once reading in a firearms publication that casehardening (or case coloring -- I don't remember which) can cause the steel not to take as much pressure as it once could (whether that is due to being more brittle or what have you, I don't know). Anyhow, it all boils down to this: should I be able to fire these loads in the Winchester without any damage.

I believe my smith told me that the receiver was colored by means of cyanide (making it case coloring, I suppose). If anyone can enlighten me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

cox3497

I can understand case hardening making a gun take less pressure. But i see no reason why a gunsmith would case harden a modern gun. Yours is most likely case colored which shouldn't hurt anything. If you aren't sure ask the gunsmith about it.

I don't have an answer to your question, but that's a beautiful rifle! :)

Concerning the pressure thing with the case hardening, I can't imagine a firearms company in todays litigous society weakening one model of an already existing design for asthetics. Their lawyers would be up all night with ulcers, emailing every manager in the company to tell them to stop that practice. I'm sure they are properly heat treated with modern methods before the case hardening is done.

Jerkface11:

The article I read in a gun magazine was about a gentleman who owned (I believe) an 1886 Winchester of recent manufacture chambered in .45-70. He said something to the effect that he would like to caseharden (or case color, I don't remember) this rifle, but he wouldn't be able to use hotter loads that the rifle could presently shoot. Thus, he left the standard blue finish alone.

So, in effect, as long as the finish on the rifle is a case coloring, I should be all right? I asked my gunsmith about it once, and he kind of dismissed what the gentleman in the article stated, so I wanted to get a second opinion. Thanks for your response.

DMK:

Thanks for the compliments on the rifle. It is quite a dandy. My smith has done some exceptional work with authentic pre-64 model 94s as well. My rifle is not historically accurate, being that it should (with the round barrel) only have a half-cresent buttplate, but I wanted the full because I thought it looked neater!:D Some of the even more expensive upgrades he does make even this one look plain!

I guess I should clarify that Winchester is not the one who casehardened (or colored) this rifle -- my gunsmith did. Therefore I'm not sure what effect it might have on the strength of the receiver. Winchester did put out a couple Trails End models with the case coloring, but this isn't one of them. It used to be the standard Trails End model. Anyhow, I should probably give him a call to see if he actually hardened or colored it as Jerkface11 said above. Thanks for the compliments and the response! Appreciate it.

cox3497

Case hardening by immersing the part in hot molten cyanide salts used to be a pretty standard way of getting a thin hard surface on a softer steel substrate, with the byproduct being the pretty colours. I remember such a set up in our Lithgow Small Arms Factory when I briefly worked there twenty-odd years ago.

The hard surface layer is very thin, and confers a little extra resistance to wear and potentially smoother working of one part over another, but otherwise shouldn't make much difference to the mechanical properties of the part if properly done. That last point is the kicker though: with any such treatment you are dependent upon the bloke who did the work.

If your man knows what he is doing the action should be no less strong and tough than it was before the work was done, but will he back you using loads at over SAAMI spec? I think you might be on your own there.

Having shot .45 Colt for over twenty years and shot and worked on Model 94 Winchesters for just about as long I can tell you that your cartridge cases will wear excessively and begin to split long before the rifle causes any problems with high velocity, high pressure .45 Colt loadings.

My advise is to have a gunsmith convert the rifle to shoot .454 Casull cartridges.
It isn't a major undertaking and should be fairly reasonable in cost.
You can use the thicker, longer, Casull cases for the high pressure stuff and you will still be able to shoot conventional .45 Colt cartridges in the rifle too.HTH

Sorry for the delayed response guys. Things have been pretty crazy as of late.

Daniel:

Thanks for the heads-up on the cyanide process. I believe that this is what the smith had done (he actually sends it to someone else -- I don't know who). I need to call him and check to be certain. He does, however, routinely do this work to .30-.30 Winchester rifles whose pressures are quite similar to my .45 Colt handloads. Thanks again for the advice.

Onmilo:

As your experience has shown, this rifle is well-suited for heavy .45 Colt loads. I wasn't unsure of this as much, however, as I was that the case (hardening/coloring??) weakened the steel such that these loads might not be advisable in the gun. I'll have to give the smith a call to determine exactly what he did just so I'm on the safe side.:) Thanks for the response.

cox3497

I very much doubt it's really case hardened. More likely it's simply covered with a chemical blotching to make it look kind of like the primitive case hardened receivers. This is particularly bizarre, since quality case hardening such as that on Mosin-Nagant receivers, does not leave the blotches. They were a sign of substandard American gun steel. The reference to cyanide makes it sound like merely a chemical coloring. Otherwise he would have had to put the receiver back in a forge.

As far as hot .45 Colts, proceed with caution. The Win '92 is actually stronger, and my old USRAC 94 spit gas in my eye from time to time shooting .45 Colt handloads. Work up to it and back off if you see pressure signs such as a sticky bolt, busted brass and burst primers.