Baby Eagle .45 ACP


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joeoim
January 4, 2003, 02:40 PM
I've had this Magnum Research Baby Eagle .45 for almost a year now and I've really come to like it. I don't think it's ever failed to fire. Shoots good and is comfortable to handle inspite of it's looks. Has anyone else had any experience with one? Positive or negative, I'd like to hear from you.

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Croyance
January 5, 2003, 03:06 PM
From threads on The Firing Line, most issues with the .45 ACP stem from the magazine - problems with feeding. This might be fixed with stronger magazine springs.
The design itself is sound, as it is based on the famed CZ-75 design. I believe that it is actually manufactered by Tanfoglio, in Italy, so it may have magazine compatibility with the EAA Witness series.

Maasharu
January 8, 2005, 06:24 PM
The "Baby Eagle" as sold by Magnum Research Inc and "Uzi Eagle" as sold by Mossberge are both just renamed black painted copies of the Jericho 941, manufactured by Israel Military Industries. Even though they're black painted and have different names printed on them (and onto the guns themselves), they're still made to order BY Israel Military Industries.

I heard the actual plant they're manufactured in is in Baza, Israel but I can't confirm that. What I *can* confirm: is that absolutely all the parts are manufactured by Israel Military Industries, the guns are assembled, then disassembled - shipped to the US separately and Magnum Research Inc has to sift through everything and reassemble the guns.

The .45 is an after thought gun: it's one of the most comfortable to shoot high capacity magazine .45 ACPs you can buy: but it's only available in the short barrel "semi compact" version. If IMI actually had .45 ACP on their minds they'd of made a full size version. But no, they woke up from their Blonde moment and remembered that Americans are hard up for the .45 and decided to stick a .45 model in there just so they don't miss out on potential money.

As i said: after thought. However - the gun is based on the famed CZ-75, though it is thinner. The CZ-75 is 1.4 inches wide; the Jericho/Uzi eagle/Baby Eagle is only 1.125 Inches wide. Which is another reason it's so comfortable to shoot: the handle on the .45 version is virtually the same size as the 9mm and .40 S&W versions. So even someone with small hands - has no trouble shooting it and those with big hands still have plenty of room that their pinky isn't hanging off the bottom because the semi Compact still has full size handle.

If you have a big of experience with the gun - you'll realize it's based on the CZ-75 but breaks down the same way as the Sig P220. Therefore - it's really a cross between a sig P220 and the CZ-75. The operation is flawless - provided you get a new one because some of the older ones had feeding problems. This was caused by the weak magazine springs. It has room for improvements: but they're few and based on personal choice.

There's also not much beating the safety features: you can carry it safely with safety off and a round in the chamber, but the de-cocker on and not worry about accidental discharges; the de-cocker places the hammer against a safety wall similarly to a Beretta 92FS and the de-cocker also completely disengages the trigger. Whip it out - flip the de-cocker with your thumb and pull the trigger. Safe as a Glock, and unlike a lock with that accuracy-depleating trigger (as it's DAO, you fight that safety trigger every round, causing the front to jiggle if you fire fast rather than slow), the Jericho/baby eagle/Uzi eagle is DA/SA. Each round after the first is SA for better follow up shots than the Glock.

I have yet to hear one person to own or test fire any Jericho/Baby eagle/Uzi eagle *NOT* talk in glowing terms about it being a real shooter. With 3 inch spreads at 50m and down to 1 inch spreads at 25m. I have heard of someone placing 3 rounds in the same .45 hole but I wasn’t there to see it: and aside from MadOgre posting about it happening I probably wouldn't believe anyone telling me they did that with any gun.

And if you question it's reliability because it hasn't been around very long; keep in kind it's based on the CZ-75 and it's action is so closely related to the Sig Sauer that it breaks down the same way. Or as one very humorous individual put it "Tested on Palestinians daily."

I plan on buying a Bable eagle .45 myself – and I always thoroughly research any gun I plan on buying, well in advance of actually snagging it. So I hope that answers any questions you might have – or doubts. You just can’t go wrong by buying one –


Maasharu

joeoim
February 4, 2005, 10:54 PM
Maasharu,
very interesting, I hope you get one soon. I have a Witness .45 that I have been carrying instead of the Baby Eagle. I like it better because it has a safety instead of the decocker ( I just don't like the decocker ) It is the same design only with a longer barrel. It has rubber grip panels that feel a little better to me. Shoots just as good. If you havn't bought one yet take a look at the Witness. It is imported by EAA and they don't have a very good customer service reputation but you will probably never need them. Mine is the "wonder finish" that is a baked on tefflon that makes it look like stainless steel. It doesn't seem to rust.

Joe

Pointman1776
February 5, 2005, 03:24 AM
I posted something similar to Maasharu's post (which is an excellent post, btw) back on 12/31/04.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=1441813&postcount=6
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=118207

Reposted here for your convenience...

I have a Baby Eagle in 9mm and in .45, both are black. I love them both. (It is also available in .40cal in the US.) They indeed are an amazing fit in my hand, come to aim-point naturally and rapidly, and the trigger will smooth out after about 750-1000 rounds (although it still breaks just a tad too deep/late for my personal preferences). It is a close-family-cousin to the CZ 75 and EAA Witness.

$299 for the condition you describe does not seem like a good deal, imo, when you can get a NIB for around $75 more ($375-$400 is the usual best-price range, and comes with 2 mags).

I rate the Baby Eagle as my 3rd all-time favorite 9mm pistol, behind my Sig P226ST and CZ75BD, and followed by the XD-9 in 4th place (and, yes, rated ahead of even the much vaunted Browning HP, H&K, Glock and even Beretta based on my personal shooting results).

The quickest way to describe the US-imported versions would be as a hybrid of the following:
1. All-steel, slide-in-frame, locked-breach/recoil operated design (as with CZ 75)
2. Hexagonal (polygonal) barreling (as with H&K)
3. Slide-mounted safety/decocker (as with Beretta)
4. Extended beavertail grip to help manage recoil (as with EAA Witness Steel Full-Size)
5. Full-length-frame to also help with recoil as well as to keep out dust/sand/grit

Some background...

In the mid 1980's, Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI) (http://www.imi-israel.com), was contracted by the Israeli government to produce a primary sidearm for the military, special forces, and police departments. It had to be able to withstand brutal punishment, harsh desert and maritime conditions (e.g. sand, grit, dust, salt-water, etc.), extreme heat, etc. Thus, the IMI Jericho 941 was born. They are imported/distributed in the US by Magnum Research, Inc. (http://www.magnumresearch.com/) as the Baby Eagle. It's branded in the US as the "Baby Eagle" because IMI also makes its more famous "daddy" Desert Eagle (but, ironically, the two pistols are not at all mechanically related). It is a close sibling/cousin of the EAA Witness and clearly shares many of the same design features; both are patterned after the CZ 75.

Some interesting websites and excerpts:

1. http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/jericho/Jericho.html:
The Jericho 941 was developed by IMI, Israel (Israeli Military Industries). The index "941" comes from initial chambering of this gun, it was shipped with two interchangeable barrels and magazine sets one for 9mm Luger, and another for more powerful .41AE (10mm) cartridge. But .41AE didn't catch the market, so this version was discontinued, but lately IMI introduced Jericho in .40SW and in .45ACP.
2. http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/handguns/jericho/jericho.htm

3. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg44-e.htm :
Technically, Jericho is a locked-breech, recoil operated firearm, patterned after famous CZ-75. Jericho manufactured with steel or polymer frames, with some different models available: 941 - basic model double action, with slide mounted safety and decocker; 941F - double action, with frame mounted safety and no decocker; 941FS - double action, short model with frame mounted safety; 941FB - double action, "baby" model with frame mounted safety; 941FBL - "baby" model with frame mounted safety and polymer frame; and 941PS - Police special - with frame mounted safety, single action trigger and built-in compensator.
All Jerichos reported as very reliable and accurate handguns, and very comfortable to fire.
IMI widely exports these handguns. In the USA, they are marketed under the names of "Baby eagle", "Uzi Eagle" or even "Baby Desert Eagle". They also used in Israeli Defence Forces and by Israeli Police.
...and, for the record, no, I am not Israeli...I am just a huge fan of the CZ-IMI-EAA family of pistols. Just can't beat that price-to-performance value ratio of $400. Nothing else comes close.

Hope you someday add one to your collection, along with a CZ 75 (BD), and a Sig P226ST.

joeoim
February 5, 2005, 02:47 PM
Pointman,

Very good post. Thank-You for reposting.
I am not a 9mm guy, but I'd like to fing a jericho .45 with the frame mounted safety. I'd get it beveled.

What can you tell me about the wonder finish? I haven't been able to find anyone that does this finish. Some that sound simular, but I'm familiar with this finish and would like to get my witness beveled and refinished (and a jericho).

Joe

Croyance
February 5, 2005, 09:36 PM
Maasharu, or anybody else with knowledge:
What serial numbers should I look for in a Baby Eagle .45 ACP? You say the newer ones are reliable. From what point (on up) has the change been made?

Pointman1776
February 6, 2005, 04:08 AM
joeoim - I don't think MRI imports any "Baby" Eagle models other than the 941...although I would love to get a 941PS (Police Special with frame mounted safety, SA trigger, and built-in compensator), as well as a 941F. I haven't bothered to look it up on the BATF lists or on any other US Fed list, but provided they are accepted by BATF and/or other agencies/departments, I supposed one could be imported special and then registered in accordance with US laws. I have too many other toys on my list which are already US/CA legal that I'd like to get first before I get to a 941PS or 941F.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2005, 04:09 AM
dumb question, but could one of the early .41AE Jerichos be converted to 10mm

I'd like Baby Eagle in 10mm.

Pointman1776
February 6, 2005, 12:54 PM
Clean97GTI - I might be missing something but as I understand it, the .41AE IS a 10mm.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/jericho/Jericho.html
Jericho 941 was developed by IMI, Israel. The index "941" comes from initial chambering of this gun, it was shipped with two interchangeable barrels and magazine sets one for 9mm Luger, and another for more powerful .41AE (10mm) cartridge. But .41AE didn't catch the market, so this version was discontinued, but lately IMI introduced Jericho in .40SW and in .45ACP.
The best bet would be to contact IMI or an IMI-specialist, verify 9mm & .41AE and 10mm interchangeability/compatibility, and try to find a factory-made IMI conversion set for the 941, rather than an after-market (if it exists) or attempt a custom conversion with non factory parts (don't even have a clue as to which barrel could possibly be used as a starter base for the conversion).

Good luck!

joeoim
February 6, 2005, 09:58 PM
Pointman

I think you are right.
I tried to find a SA/DA Jericho .45 about a year and half ago, because it has a frame mounted safety, and was told they were not available in that config here anymore.

I did a little shooting today and the witness is so on target I'll stay with it. The Baby Eagle is much easier to carry however, but the end result (accuracy) is more importand to me.

The Baby Eagle is an excellent pistol in my opinion (maybe better than Witness), just have my prefrences.

Joe

joeoim
February 6, 2005, 10:05 PM
Croyance

The serial # on my Baby Eagle is 20310XXX and it has been flawless.

I've had it about 3 years, so I'll bet about anything you find NIB will be a later model.

Joe

3006mv
January 18, 2006, 06:31 PM
I need help w/ my steel 45 Baby Eagle. It is having feed problems w/ hollow points, I know the feed ramp is pretty smooth, is there anything else I can do? Where can I get new springs? It seems like the slide just won't close near the end, do you think it could be a poor fit w/ the locking lugs?

joeoim
May 17, 2006, 01:52 PM
3006mv,
Did you find a solution to your feeding problems? I don't know of anything other than to find someone with a BE that feeds correctly and see if they would let you try their magazine. You might try czforum.com, under clone club. There are a lot of sharp Baby Eagle and Witness (basically the same) owners that post there. I hope you have solved this already.

Joe

galilgunner
April 24, 2007, 08:32 PM
I was just doing a search for .45 cal UZI mags and I came across this post so I thought I would add my experience. I have a UZI EAGLE marked (IMI) 9mm steel compact model and a Magnum Research (IMI) marked JERICHO 45FS. The 9mm has the slide mounted decocker and tritium sights. The 45 has the frame mounted safety (no decocker). I absolutely love these guns! I normally don't carry cocked and locked so I have no real preference between the two as far as that goes (I am a big single action revolver fan so cocking and un cocking are second nature). I have shot both of these guns extensively for years with both factory mags and various aftermarket mags. I have never had any problems with the FACTORY MAGS but I have had multiple problems with after market mags in these and most of the guns I own. I have a factory Tanfoglio mag that I picked up accidently and it will jam in the Jericho most of the time. Getting back to the subject of hollow points, I have noticed over the years that some hollow points have wider hole than others which give them a larger flat area in the front and if you look at the bullet from the side you will notice the some hollow point ammo has such a large hole that it may as well be a blunt full wadcutter as far as the feed ramp is concerned. This is more of a problem the larger the caliber. This has caused me a few jams over the years but I don't really recall it happening with the Jericho but it may be because I check for this when buying ammo nowdays. I like my eagles better than my Hi power, Colt 1911, and Glock. The Witness guns are very good guns also but I have always been partial to the Israelis. I have recently purchased one of the new stainless steel CZ75B, I have only shot it twice but I think it may shoot tighter than the rest I am very very impressed. (I have always wanted a CZ75 it just took me a while to get around to buying one) I will have to check it out a little more to see.

briang2ad
April 24, 2007, 08:46 PM
That IMI seems to make an UTTERLY reliable, svelt 45, and CZ CANNOT do it. Their CZ 97 seems to be quite accurate OTB, but you hear pof plenty of them whivh have reliability problems. Amazing.

galilgunner
April 25, 2007, 10:09 AM
It may be something to do with the magazine. I believe IMI makes there own magazines where as I think CZ contracts this out. I know that with the Baby Eagle/Jericho even very subtle differences in the magazine evidently make a lot of difference. The Tanfoglio mag I mentioned looks to me identical to the IMI Jericho 45 mag, the only way I could tell them apart is by the Tanfoglio name stamped on the bottom but it jams once or twice every ten rounds vs no jams with the IMI mags. The full capacity 16 round 9mm mags from Magnum Research fit and funtion flawlessly into the compact Baby Eagle. I ordered about five mags from Magnum research for the 45 and the same for my 9mm Baby Eagle and never looked back. I have several older CZ75 mags that fit in my 9mm Baby Eagle and my new stainless CZ75B but only one of these mags functions properly the rest do not.

kai_lonewolf
May 5, 2008, 03:59 AM
I just bought a Baby Eagle .45 ACP pistol. Opon inspection of the pistol, I found a lot of tool marks on the feed ramp and throat.
I took the pistol to the range as is and fired 250 rounds threw it and ran into a problem. After 5th round or so, the pistol would failed to load a live round. I would either get the round stuck between the slide and barrel on a weird angle or, my favorite, do a stove pipe but with a live round. I had two factory magazines and 5 EAA Witness magazine that fit the my baby eagle .45. Every magazine got a Failure to feed on 5, 7 or last round. It was intermittent, I was using S&B FMJ 230 gr ammo.
After coming back from the range, I cleaned up the pistol.
I got some 400 & 600 grit sand paper, and red polishing compound, and began the long process of polishing feed ramp and throat. After getting it to a nice shine, I got some real dirty ammo. I talking about armscor china manufacturer ammo(my shooting buddy had some old ammo). I shot 250 rounds at the range and only got 1 failure to feed, due operator error, I limp-wrist while shooting the pistol. All 7 magazine( 2 factory and 5 EAA mag) functioned with out any problems. It is safe to say the next 250 will tell me how this pistol is going to act. It is some growing pains but this gun is going to be a keeper.

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