Enfield jungle carbine


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Stauble
July 27, 2006, 12:04 PM
i cant afford 500$ for a commercial hunting gun so i thought id go mil-surp.
has anyone used these enfield carbines for hunting? would it be better to get one of these for hunting, or buy the regular enfield, and sporterize it?
any info would be appreciated

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rockstar.esq
July 27, 2006, 01:10 PM
I'm sure others will chime in soon but here are a few points to ponder.
The Enfield you're talking about will likely be chambered in either 303 British or 7.62x51. Generally these are chopped down models of less than excellent rifles. This is not to say that they are unsafe. However the 7.62x51 models shouldn't fire 308 Win ammo as they might cause unsafe pressures. From what I have seen, the jungle carbines are pretty rough around the edges. In comparison, the M44 , m38, mosin nagants are not only typically under $100.00, they can be restocked with an ATI plastic monte carlo type stock for under $70.00. At this point you'd have an iron sighted rifle capable of decent hunting accuracy that has commercial ammo loaded for it in addition to milsurp all of which is profoundly cheaper than most 30-06 loadings. Additionally the 7.62x54R is a fine hunting cartridge approximating the performance of the 30-06 (possibly the most popular hunting cartridge ever). The Enfields are not without their charm. I for one haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why so few bolt action rifles sport a cock on close type action. From handling them at the store, the cock on close feels much easier to operate especially when in a hurry. Plus it's nice to be able to remove the bolt without having it cocked in storage. Another Enfield benifit is that it typically has good quality iron sights. The accuracy of a given rifle depends to a large extent on quality sights, this might help to offest some of the less refined aspects of the Enfield. What I wrote about the ATI stock applies to the Enfield as well, however the military stock on the Enfield is less aggregious to the shooter as the buttplate isn't made of a flat sharp edged piece of steel A LA the Mosin.

kfranz
July 27, 2006, 01:14 PM
Why would you sporterize it? Not like it kills big game worse in it's original condition. You could get the JC, but if all you're looking to do is plunk critters, the Mosin will do you right for less than half the cost on the rifle, and do you even better on ammo cost

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 03:12 PM
If you look around, you can find an Enfield for only a bit more than a Mosin.

"Less than excellent?" "Less refined?" Compared to a surplus Mosin Carbine?:rolleyes:

Whatever. I happen to be fond of both, but this just isn't how I or anyone else who has ever lined a bunch of them up on a table would put it.

The Mosin is a brutal block of steel, made by monkeys. The action requires brute force to operate, and the safety is downright funny, since you have to wrestle with the full force of the striker spring to engage it! In return, though, you get a rifle that shoots well come hell or high water. It will fire. And it will feed, if you give it enough muscle. Hell, I was afraid I'd break one of mine the first time I used it; people here said that was normal and it won't hurt the action.

The Enfield is a precision piece of machinery, made by anal-retentive Brits in navy blue and khaki. It is an old-school military battle rifle, though, made as a bayonet platform as well as a rifle, so it's plenty durable. The safety is a quick thumb flip, the action works FAST with no undue effort, and the gun is just a nice piece.

I wouldn't get a real JC because they're known for accuracy problems (actually a "wandering zero", meaning that they might group fine but somewhere other than where they were sighted in). Leave the genuine Mk5 JC to collectors. They don't shoot it, either. The rifles are shooters, though.

A replica JC, though, has some appeal. See http://www.e-gunparts.com/ and search for Jungle Carbine. Get an ugly No4Mk1 surplus rifle that's too beat-looking, with a trashed stock and surface rust, to have real collector value, and turn it into a JC clone. It won't have the wandering zero, because you will leave the receiver alone. Effectively, you will be sporterizing it but keeping the spirit of the military Enfield alive. Re-blue it.

Or just shoot the Enfield rifle as-is. The deer/pigs/whatever won't know whether they were shot with a fullstock gun or a halfstock gun.:)

Or get a Mosin M-38, but be advised that accuracy won't be all that great. They were made in wartime, by the millions, for a massive army that won by sheer numbers, not by being skilled riflemen. There are a bunch of numbers-matching M-38s coming into the US again. Get a numbers-matching one with a nice tight bolt that doesn't lift up when you press down on the handle.

Don't get an M-44 unless you plan to do some work sporterizing it. They don't shoot straight with the bayonet folded; some bayonets are very hard to remove, and with the bayonet they're heavy beasts.

The Mosin rifles (91/30) shoot best, but they're LOOOOOONG.

One way or another, the 7.62x54R may be a powerful round, but the range limitations of the Mosin Carbine render that pretty moot, unless you're thinking of hunting bigger-than-deer game at closer ranges.

I love Mosins. And Enfields.

BCHunter
July 27, 2006, 03:37 PM
The Lee Enfield 303 British has accounted for more game around the world, up to and including Elephants, than any other cartridge and rifle. I remember hearing the 303 British killed more moose in Canada than all other cartridges combined and I don’t doubt it. Lee Enfields were manufactured around the world in Commonwealth countries for well over ¾ of a century and I saw guards at airports in India in the late 1990s still carrying them.

When I was young every hardware store in Canada sold “sporterized” versions of the 303 for about $12 and the Jungle carbine sold for about $14. The only comment I ever heard bad about the Jungle Carbine is that it really kicked.

It’s fairly easy to mount a scope on a Lee Enfield if I remember correctly.

Sistema1927
July 27, 2006, 04:12 PM
The "real" Jungle Carbines (not the cut down butcher jobs) are fine rifles. The "wandering zero" isn't a problem with mine, and I have read some information stating that this was a figment of the imagination in order to get post-WW2 Britain to adopt a semi-auto rifle.

I load some 115 grain bullets that do wonders on coyotes, as well as some 150 that would be just right for deer. The military issue 180 grainers are a bit stout in the recoil department in these light carbines, but will do the job on just about anything in North America.

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 04:19 PM
"Real" Jungle Carbines are also cut-down butcher jobs.:)

But they were cut down and butchered by a British arsenal.

Interesting about the zero thing. And good to hear.

I'll just have to buy a few and test them all! How else could I know for sure?

That's what I'm doing, Mrs. Bear. I'm collecting information. Hence that closet full of rifles...;)

BCHunter
July 27, 2006, 04:22 PM
Scope mount for SMLE (Lee Efield)


http://secure.armorholdings.com/b-square/smle.html


from B Square

Jungle Carbine is a #5

Stauble
July 27, 2006, 05:32 PM
i like the idea of being a beat up enfield, and then buy a sport-stock, and re-blue the metal. i started searching for sporterized enfield stocks, but all of them are made out of synthetics, or some other non-wood materials, does anyone know where i can get wooden sporterized stocks?

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 05:37 PM
Wood stocks.

Sporter style:
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/

Jungle Carbine style:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=527230&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

rockstar.esq
July 27, 2006, 06:39 PM
ArmedBear I didn't mean to imply that the Enfield is an unrefined rifle. My intent was to point out that "Jungle Carbines" are frequently made from rifles that had already taken a beating as opposed to being built from the ground up as a carbine. Take it for what it's worth but after inspecting a few on the shelves around here, I've seen flash suppressors that weren't mounted straight, stock bands that stood proud of the stock, bolts that were seized to the action, and last but not least rifles with stocks and actions that looked as though they had been placed in a rock crusher's discharge chute. In general the mosins & variants coming to market currently are refinished and exhibit better fit and finish than the Jungle Carbines that I see on shelves currently. As for the "Anal Retentive Brits" thing, please note that things got pretty desperate for them in the final days of WWII and many shortcuts were made in manufacture. I submit as my opinion that the majority of the JC's I've seen were made out of the Enfields built towards the end of WWII, not during shiny happy times. To that end, most of the JC's I've seen were being sold as milsurps, not collector rifles.

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 06:49 PM
"Jungle Carbines" are frequently made from rifles that had already taken a beating as opposed to being built from the ground up as a carbine.

Ah.

That makes more sense.

I have a No4Mk1 that's a well-made rifle, but I think it's from the middle of the war, 42 or 43. And it's quite true that the Ishapore sitting next to it is more perfectly fitted, as it was made during peaceful times when its makers probably weren't being bombed and were getting some sleep.:)

One of my favorite short surplus pieces is the Steyr M1895 Carbine. Very light for its era, straight-pull bolt action, and the Austrian culture of precision devices is obvious.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/graphics/full.jpg
The only problem is that it shoots the 8x56 Hungarian round. Hornady makes good hunting ammo in 8x56, if you can find it, but it's not something you find at the corner sporting good store.

Still, it's something to consider...

Numrich sells the en bloc clips for it, too.

Kymasabe
July 27, 2006, 07:01 PM
I own a few Mosins and think they're great guns...cheap, reliable, virtually indestructable, though not terribly attractive. However, I think the Enfield Jungle Carbine is one of the best looking WW2 rifles ever produced but plagued with "wandering zero" problems because of all the lightening cuts.

I like both rounds, the 7.62x54R and the Brit .303. Recently, I've seen some Enfields converted to look like Jungle Carbines and I'd grab one of them up in a minute. A little heavier than the real thing but should also solve the "zero" problems they had. Shhot them both and see which one you like best.

Clipper
July 27, 2006, 07:16 PM
...And it was the worst P.O.S. It's ever been my misfortune to own. Not only did it suffer from the wandering zero, but the abysmal design of the stock allowed it to slam my cheekbone black & blue, while the buttpad design hammered my shoulder into uselessness before I would finish a full magazine. All this for an anemic round not much different ballistically than a .32 Winchester Special. I actually got so disgusted with it after several weeks of trying to fix it that I hacksawed it into four pieces and threw it out, one piece per week...Good Riddance! OTH, I had a Half-Octagon receiver Mosin with a wood sporter stock, Williams guide sights, turn-down bolt and 22" shortened barrel that was a joy to shoot, and shot 3/4" groups with the 180gr Norma loads @ the 80-yard range at Williams Gunsight. However, I don't know what kind of powder Norma uses, but that thing boomed like an artillery piece!

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 07:18 PM
I actually got so disgusted with it after several weeks of trying to fix it that I hacksawed it into four pieces and threw it out, one piece per week

LOL

Why do that? It's still an attractive wallhanger.

Vairochana
July 27, 2006, 07:22 PM
they don't have to be butchered

rockstar.esq
July 27, 2006, 07:25 PM
"I actually got so disgusted with it after several weeks of trying to fix it that I hacksawed it into four pieces and threw it out, one piece per week..."

Now I for one have thought about doing something like this (with my car), I think it's hillarious that you actually did! Extreem as it sounds, at least you didn't pawn off your problem child on some unexpecting buyer. Still and all I think I'd have "mounted" the four pieces on a plaque in the gun room to make sure all the other rifles in there stay in line!

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 07:27 PM
Thermite would have been better.

Thermite is the answer to many of the world's problems, including POS cars.

http://www.guzer.com/videos/thermite_car.php

Clipper
July 27, 2006, 07:55 PM
...And I have no use for junk guns. That JC was a festering, puss-filled boil on the butt of the world of legitimate firearms everywhere, and deserved to die an ignominious death. I wish I had kept that Mosin, though, now that there are other producers of (reasonably priced) sporting ammo for it. I've even thought of getting another, so I'll have something to take out on misserable days when I'd really rather not expose my new M-70 featherweight...

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 07:59 PM
Boyds even makes a nice stock for it.

There's little financial reason to put off buying a Mosin. The gun costs less than 100 rounds of hunting ammo.:)

Iggy
July 27, 2006, 08:07 PM
Gads!! I can remember JC's for sale in gun magazines and Popular Mechanics for $29.95

Course that was 50 years ago, and I didn't have the bucks..:rolleyes:

jonnyc
July 27, 2006, 08:57 PM
To each his own. I recently got a nice Jungle Carb and I love it. I get 4-ish inch groups at 100yds. and it's a pleasure to shoot. Ten times more fun to shoot than my M38 Mosin. I'm even starting to load .303 just so I can keep using the piece economically. Let me know if you ever think about cutting up anymore "bad" guns!

Oldnamvet
July 27, 2006, 09:22 PM
If price is your criteria, you can get a new NEF Handi-rifle for about $200. Single shot but they are accurate and reliable. Use the rest of the money to put nice glass on it.

Gewehr98
July 27, 2006, 10:15 PM
I wouldn't get a real JC because they're known for accuracy problems (actually a "wandering zero", meaning that they might group fine but somewhere other than where they were sighted in). Leave the genuine Mk5 JC to collectors. They don't shoot it, either. The rifles are shooters, though.

I've owned this particular 1945 BSA Shirley No5Mk1 since it was imported from Malaysia around 2000. It's the real thing, with all of the proper lightening cuts, not a conversion from a No4Mk1 as alluded to by another poster here. The finish needed some help, particularly the thick layer of varnish that the gun had been covered in. Regardless, the only "wandering zero" problem I found was a loose king screw, also known as the front action screw. Snugging that down for proper bedding and making sure the forend was clear of the barrel in the barrel channel ensured my particular Jungle Carbine shot repeatable groups, day to day, month to month.

http://mauser98.com/jc-3.jpg

Does the gun recoil more than the typical No4Mk1? Oh, heck yes. Especially with my handloads, made to duplicate original MkVII ball ammo. (Hardly anemic or .32 Winchester Special grade)

Will I take it deer hunting? In a heartbeat. The Brits needed a maneuverable, lightweight battle rifle based on their existing No4Mk1 design. They hit a bullseye with the No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine, and I'm quite happy to have an original in my collection, both to own and to shoot. :D

jonnyc
July 28, 2006, 12:09 AM
I like mine a lot, but yours is real purty.

Sistema1927
July 28, 2006, 12:35 AM
Gewehr98,

I wondered how to counter the "all of them are butcher jobs" attitude, but you beat me to it with your post. My experience with my "real" Jungle Carbine (No5Mk1 ROF(F) 12/45) closely mirrors yours with the exception that I never had to do any tightening to eliminate any "wandering zero". That varnish was a mess, but the wood underneath looks pretty good once you get all that stuff off.

I don't load hot and heavy for mine, since 125 grainers at a modest velocity do the job on the coyotes that I use it on.

Back to the "butcher jobs", I think that most of them are the result of a desire to duplicate the utility of the No5Mk1, or in other words, "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery". Unfortunately, most of these attempts fall short, and have thus given a black eye to the term "jungle carbine".

ArmedBear
July 28, 2006, 12:48 AM
When I said that all of them were butcher jobs, I meant that, AFAIK, every No5 was a cut down No4. I don't believe that any No5 Carbines left the factory as carbines, originally. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

As far as the quality of the gun, that would probably depend on how well whoever did the conversion did the work, as well as how good the No4 was that formed the basis for the carbine.

Diomed
July 28, 2006, 02:40 AM
When I said that all of them were butcher jobs, I meant that, AFAIK, every No5 was a cut down No4. I don't believe that any No5 Carbines left the factory as carbines, originally. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

Yep, you're wrong. Prototypes were made from No. 4s, production rifles were built as No. 5s. Any carbines using a No. 4 body are, 9,999 times out of 10,000, not going to be factory original.

The wandering zero business getting bandied about is a myth. Folks have tried to replicate it under controlled conditions and failed. If someone can take a representative sample of service grade No. 5s and reproduce the problem, then that would be a major event and a couple of books would need to be revised.

BigO01
July 28, 2006, 03:00 AM
Stauble , why now take a trip down to a Walmart and see what the have in new bolt action rifles ?

I picked up a closeout Savage 110 in 30-06 a couple of years ago for $250 brand spanking new .

I see Howa's without any scope on them for under $300 and Remington 710's for about $340 all the time at my local stores .

Vairochana
July 28, 2006, 06:00 AM
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g83/Vairochana/SMLE1.jpgI tried to post this earlier- non-butchered sporter not a "JC" tho

Gewehr98
July 28, 2006, 12:09 PM
True No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines left the military arsenals in exactly the shape and form you see in my picture. There are no No4Mk1 parts in them, save for those that may be common to both designs.

True No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines have several distinguishing features:

1. Hollowed-out bolt handle
2. Scalloped lightening cuts on the Knox Form, aka barrel shank under the handguard
3. Lightening cuts in the rear receiver area under the rear sight
4. Vernier rear sight graduated to the shorter range of the No5Mk1 carbine
5. "Pinched" lightening cuts on the triggerguard
6. Metal forend cap, often deleted during production runs
7. Buttstock with side sling relief, and rubber buttplate
8. Combination flash hider and bayonet lug
9. "No5Mk1" stamped or engraved into the left side of the receiver

There are more than a few No4Mk1 rifles out there with some No5Mk1 parts, I've seen them with the hollowed-out bolt handles and pinched triggerguards. This was due to production overruns on the No5Mk1 line, and since they fit just fine on the No4Mk1, by all means...

Regardless, the No5Mk1 carbine was a totally separate production item from the No4Mk1 full-length rifle. The trick these days is to find an original example, vs. that copy somebody made from a butchered No4Mk1, since the former have been in scarce supply for many years. As was mentioned earlier, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", so there are many faux No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines out there created from No4Mk1 rifles. That's where you got the misleading idea that all No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines were created from butchered No4Mk1 rifles.

Might I suggest a good read? Ian Skennerton can give you production figures for arsenal-new No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines, and basically anything Lee-Enfield in nature:

http://www.skennerton.com/

Stauble
July 28, 2006, 03:01 PM
Stauble , why now take a trip down to a Walmart and see what the have in new bolt action rifles ?

I picked up a closeout Savage 110 in 30-06 a couple of years ago for $250 brand spanking new .

Unfortunatly my local wal-marts no longer sell rifles. when i bought my ruger 10/22 there, the manager told me this was the last gun they were ever going to sell

ball3006
July 28, 2006, 05:51 PM
they are not cut down No4 rifles. If you want a sporter Enfield, come to the Dallas/Fort Worth area. There are gazillions of them in the pawn shops........You should just buy a used commercial rifle instead of hacking a military arm........chris3

wayne in boca
July 28, 2006, 09:07 PM
I bought my No.5 36 years ago for $50.00,went deer hunting with it.Got a bayonet for $ 5.00 ,and a sling for $ 8.00.Still have it,and the zero hasn't wandered off yet.Tried to pawn it once,and the pawnbroker told me it wasn't worth anything.Never refinished it,just BLO on the stock,and no import marks.My best gun investment,I always show it to my wife and tell her what a lot of of money it's worth and why I need another M1A.:)

Deaf Smith
July 28, 2006, 09:29 PM
Wyane,

Do you know how much that bayonete is worth? An origional Mk5 bayonet??

Hope you still have it.

Diomed
July 28, 2006, 09:36 PM
There are more than a few No4Mk1 rifles out there with some No5Mk1 parts, I've seen them with the hollowed-out bolt handles and pinched triggerguards.

Not so, many No. 4s have lightened bolt handles, though the diameters are usually different from those of the No. 5s. The bolts are technically different but are considered (by the Brit military) interchangable.

There are other unique No. 5 parts, lightened sear, different barrel band, lightened wood, etc.

M.E.Eldridge
July 28, 2006, 09:54 PM
Huh, the .303 an anemic round? Gewehr was quite correct; no way is it anemic. Its used quite regularly in Canada to hunt moose and even grizzly. Two of the most bad-ass lions to ever live were killed by the .303. If its an anemic round, then so is the 30-06.

sturgis
August 5, 2006, 09:45 PM
I've had my No.5 for 36 years, and never have had a wandering zero, or any other problems. Well except a sore shoulder every now and then. Maybe it was built by a bright Brit during a lul in the air raids.

JoshM
August 6, 2006, 12:40 AM
Among my extended family of keen deer hunters, I'd have to say that JCs have taken the most deer by a wide margin...

Simply because the ammunition is cheap, plentiful, and the JC lends itself to being handily stowed in a Landcruiser/ute. Whereas the more expensive Remchesters, Steyrs, and Sakos only come out for the planned hunting weekends.

For a .303, the recoil and "bark" is considerable. Therefore I don't think it's a good starter rifle for introducing kids to deer hunting (as one of my Uncle's tried with a cousin of mine).. But really that's the only negative aspect of JCs that I can think of !?

BCHunter
August 7, 2006, 01:59 AM
There appears to have been 251,300 “Jungle Carbines” – No. 5 MkI Lee Enfield SMLE rifles manufactured at two manufacturers.

Frazakerley - 170,000

BSA – Shirley - 81,300



Below is an extract from Wikipedia on the “Jungle Carbine” which hopefully is helpful concerning Jungle Carbines made as No5 MkI and copies made from other SMLEs.

Post-War Non-Military Conversions

Whilst they did not invent the name, the designation "Jungle Carbine" was popularised by the Santa Fe Arms Corporation in the mid to late 1950s, who imported and converted huge numbers of SMLE Mk III* and Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifles to civilian versions of the No. 5 Mk I, for the hunting and recreational shooting markets in the US. Prospective buyers must be very sure they can tell the difference between a real No. 5 and a conversion, although the easiest way to do this is to look for the markings on the left hand side of the receiver- a genuine No 5 will have "Rifle No 5 Mk I" electrostencilled there, while a post-war conversion will generally have either no markings, or will have markings elsewhere from manufacturers who did not make the No 5 Mk I (for example, Savage or Longbranch).
Companies such as the Gibbs Rifle Company in the U.S. have sold completely re-built Enfields of all descriptions, but most notably their copies of "jungle carbines" (made from original No. 1 and No. 4 rifles) and the "Bulldog" rifles (also fashioned from original No. 1 and No. 4 rifles). As long as a vendor is not trying to pass one of these rifles off as a genuine No. 5, there shouldn't be any confusion over their origin and type, but not every gun owner or gun dealer is a surplus military firearms expert and mistakes (both accidental and intentional). The deliberate, permanent modification of military surplus firearms (loosely defined in the US as any ex-military firearm that is eligible for possession on a 03 FLL C&R licence) is not only actively discouraged, but a source of constant despair to the military surplus firearms collecting community, especially when it causes as much confusion as it has with the No 5 Mk I and civillian conversions thereof.

w2monster7
August 4, 2007, 06:00 PM
I Recently Got My Hands On One.i Have Been Looking At These Since I Was 16..finally The Chance Came My Way ..IT IS STAMPED MK5 #1.this Sporter Is One I Have Never Seen.this one was a conversion by someone here in the US. it Had A Cardboard Peice Of Paperin the butt. From 1965 That The Gunsmith Name And Date On It.but, I Would Love To Find The Original Stocks For This That Were In Good Shape.this Mk5 Is A Really Nice Looking Rifle And The Obvious Is That They Bring Twice The Money.it has a face prop carved in the wood..weird..everyone that see's it says its worth nothing and then wants to buy it...so that tells me i should hold on to it .i Shot One When I Was 16 And They Do Have A Nasty Little Kick..anyone Know Where To Get The Original Stock Furniture?:

mp510
August 4, 2007, 08:00 PM
An authentic, good condition to very good, Lee Enfield Number 5 can easily run $400 to $500. There have been complaints of wandering zeros with those rifles due to the lightning cuts that were made. I'm not saying that they are bad rifles or anything, and I personally think they have very nice aesthetics.
For around $299 Dick's sells scoped Marlin 336 rifles in .30-30 every so often on sale, particularly around hunting season. Even when they aren't on sale, you can get a pretty decent deal on one. Check out gunbroker or gunsamerica and you should be able to get a fair deal on a used Winchester 94 or Marlin .336.

Sistema1927
August 4, 2007, 08:08 PM
I wouldn't get a real JC because they're known for accuracy problems (actually a "wandering zero"...

As has been stated earlier, this was probably dreamt up due to the desire of the troops to whom it was issued for a semi-auto. Either that, or due to the result that the recoil with the standard ammo was more brutal than the No.4.

As to them being "cut down", there are plenty of bubba jobs done that way, but the real deal was built specifically as a carbine, with the lightening cuts. My Fazerkely is a great carbine, and with some light lead loads it is a fine coyote gun.

Dave Markowitz
August 4, 2007, 08:22 PM
"Real" Jungle Carbines are also cut-down butcher jobs.

But they were cut down and butchered by a British arsenal.

Only the first No.5 prototypes were made by chopping No.4s. Real No.5s were made as such. The receivers and barrel knox forms have lightening cuts on them.

Edit: I noticed after I posted that several people beat me to it. That'll show me to read the whole thread before responding.

Baba Louie
August 4, 2007, 08:55 PM
...anyone Know Where To Get The Original Stock Furniture?:Try Numrich

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1990zNO%205%20JUNGLE%20CARBINE&MC=

303carbine
August 31, 2007, 01:04 AM
I have had about 10 of the No5Mk1 rifles, not one had the 'wandering zero"
As I have always said, the only wandering zero is the :cuss: guy who made up that myth about the No5

yesit'sloaded
August 31, 2007, 01:22 AM
From personal range experience.

Moisin M44-loud,flames from muzzle,kicks enough to let you know you just shot a real gun, hits what you aim it at, 5 rounds that may or may not jam the bolt to the point of hammering it open.

Jungle Carbine- more of a bark than a boom, light weight makes recoil not fun at all, ammo not cheap, scope mounts available that work fine,10 round detachable mag, cycles like a dream, all in all a nasty little gun.

Aussie bloke!
August 31, 2007, 11:00 AM
G'day everyone,....

The 'Jungle Carbine' is a great rifle.
I have one and use it to shoot goats out to 1000mts.

As for the 'Wandering Zero',.....that was a problem with amunition that was produced at that time,no mechanical fault has ever been found with the rifle.

I use handloaded amunition and it shoots as straight as any hunting rifle.

Thay are strong robust and one of the best bush guns around.

If you can,get yourself one,you won't regret it.


Aussie.

Aussie bloke!
August 31, 2007, 11:11 AM
G'day everyone,.....



Might I suggest a good read? Ian Skennerton can give you production figures for arsenal-new No5Mk1 Jungle Carbines, and basically anything Lee-Enfield in nature:

http://www.skennerton.com/


You took the words right out of my mouth,...as the saying go's!!
:D


Aussie.

Full Clip
August 31, 2007, 12:56 PM
My #5 with Numrich furniture:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/981624/Enfield53sm.jpg

My only accuracy problems crop up after popping off 40-50 rounds, the barrel really heats up and my shoulder goes soft!

351 WINCHESTER
August 31, 2007, 06:07 PM
A good friend gave me a no. 5 mk1 "jungle carbine". It had been refinished (blued) and the stock is synthetic. When I first got her I had accuracy problems. I decided to clean the bbl. It was in pretty bad shape. I used J & B bore paste and a lot of elbow grease. Once I got her clean the accuracy improved greatly. The bore measures .311 so bullets are no problem. It even shoots the foreign ak bullets very well. I finally found a -.030 front sight which puts the battle sight to point of aim. As for the wandering zero - not true. That is a myth as the soldiers that were used to the heavier no 4's could not tolerate the recoil of the no. 5. I strictly use handloads for this fine carbine and she shoots 3moa at 100yds. I fully expect to see those figures shrink when I find a better load.

Show me another bolt rifle that you can drop in the mud and have her up and running with a few swipes of the bolt (removed, of course) with your shirt tail, clear the bbl. of any obstructions & resume firing.

I consider the lee enfield to be the best bolt battle rifle ever. I have no reseverations of taking it hunting as it will kill anything that walks and does so with absolute relaibility and with an action that is as smooth as butter.

I also hunt with my trusty marlin .30-30. Yea, I know it's out dated, underpowered, but the deer and hogs apparently haven't got the message.

22LongRifle
August 31, 2007, 07:57 PM
Personally, I got a No4 Mk1 that had a chewed up stock. The chamber is perfent, according to my favorite gunsmith and so is the barrel. I only thing I did was put a recoil pad on it and replaced the back sight with a better yet still mil spec sight. I did put a new smaller front sight on it, one with a little brass bead on it. It puts up the target great at my three hunderd yard range. I plan on stripping down the stock and putting a better matte finish on it to protect it from the weather.

The main problem on the No5 JC had to do with the weakened recievers that had metal shaved off to lighten the weight of the weapon. This caused the reciever to wrap under recoil and extended firing.

Personally, I hope to find another No4 mk1 or mk2 and make my own No5 with added on parts and with barrel length and stock length to my specs. All you really need is the mullze flash add on, be able to cut down the forearm and I would put a good recoil pad on it besides the bastard butt end piece the Brits used. But, I did see a shooter use a recoil pad for a SKS, one with a hole in the middle to get to the flip plate on the butt, and it looked good and works great. ALso you can add the side mounting sling mounts.

22lr

DougW
August 31, 2007, 09:03 PM
The trials #5's were made NEW with some #4 parts, but all the production #5's are built new as #5's. If you happen to have a factory (Fazakerly, Maltby, BSA, Long Branch, or Savage) converted #5 that started out as a #4, then you have a priceless collectors piece.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/MDWINK/MiscStuff030-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/MDWINK/5.jpg

The target was set at 100 yeads, loads were remington brass and primer, 40gr IMR4895, Sierra SP spitzer. 5 Shots from sand bag bench.

I don't have a "wandering zero" issue with my #5mk1 Fazakerly 8/45.

Aussie bloke!
August 31, 2007, 09:41 PM
G'day everyone,.......

Ah,....the indistructable Lee Enfield.
What a great piece of engineering it is,...works rain-hail or shine,.....

Anyone else have the training rifles as well?

Thay shoot as good as anything you can get in .22LR



Aussie.

SlamFire1
August 31, 2007, 09:43 PM
The "real" Jungle Carbines (not the cut down butcher jobs) are fine rifles. The "wandering zero" isn't a problem with mine, and I have read some information stating that this was a figment of the imagination in order to get post-WW2 Britain to adopt a semi-auto rifle.

I agree. No wandering zero with mine, and a friend's No 5. Nothing wrong with the Jungle Carbine, except one big muzzle blast.

351 WINCHESTER
August 31, 2007, 10:53 PM
22LONG RIFLE - Are you implying that the receiver (lightened) actually warps?

Never heard or seen that one before. I think the Brits. would have figured that one right off the bat when they were testing them. Just doesn't hold water.

Joe the Redneck
August 31, 2007, 11:32 PM
I have a cut down No 4 that was made to look like a No 5. It was sold to me at a gunstore as an "English Mauser". I paid 115 about 12 years ago.

Funny how simple things get confused.

I would not cut one up if it was in original condition.

If you want a short one, just keep looking around, you will find one.

I am considering haven an AK-47 muzzlebreak attached to mine and getting a plastic stock. It would make a good rough country rifle.

The 303 is not underpowered. I have no idea where that is coming from. The Key is that is has a good cross sectional density. Soft Points are avaliable.

It is certainly got enough power for ANYTHING you would encounter here in Florida. From pig to skunkape.

You can get an adapter that lets you fire 32 magnum/32 longs, great for busting varmints at short range.

colt.45
August 31, 2007, 11:46 PM
to the original poster and not you thread jacking interweb jockeys... (lol)i think that if you want a good hunting enfield you should go with the ishapore 2a enfields from aimsurplus.com. i recently got one and i love it. it is accurate even with silver bear cheapo .308 ammo(about 3 moa out to 300 yards) i am soon to install a williams peep sight to see what a longer sight radius will do.

22LongRifle
August 31, 2007, 11:54 PM
351 WINCHESTER

That's what I ment, the sinus meds have me not so clear in the head....

I would think so too, but that was the answer an older gentleman and gunsmith gave me. He is pretty shapr on these things.

I also read this in a gunrag by a great, IMHO, if not the greatest writer Gary James. I just saw it on G&A TV this week also.

A third source, same story, was by an old WW2/Korea vet who was an army gunsmith.

Now, I doubt its going to happen to any No5 that we own. This could be due to the WAY we shoot our's. Remember, the Enfields came put some lead down range quick. WW2 users weren't shooting a few rounds off the bench, they were slinging 20-25 rounds a minute, on the average, towards the enemy. This causes ALOT of heat. And I'm sure the heating and cooling of the already weakened reciever, by the shaving from the factory to lighten the weapon, weakened the steel in the reciever more. And this could cause the warping of the reciever.

In a simular incident, I ruined a singleshot 28ga during a dove shoot last year. I shoot maybe three or four boxes of shells during a hour to hour and a half stretch of great hunting. I leaned the gun again my MEC portable stand I had setup just long enough to wipe the sweat for my head, get a swing of water and one for my pup, and sent her off to start collecting our birds. The barrel of the gun curved to the right when I noticed it! I took it to my gunsmith and asked him to straighten the barrel back. He stated the metal was stretched and a weak spot had developed, the barrel could not be saved. So now I have a 28ga "blanket gun".

I'll just have to agree to disagree with you on this.

22lr

22LongRifle
September 1, 2007, 12:01 AM
Aussie

the 22lr trainer is the NEXT rifle I'm getting!

BTW, I'm needing to settle an aurgement.....what is the stock that Croc Dundee has on his Enfield during the 2nd movie. You can get a good look at it when the BGs find Dundee's retreat and they have captured Wally and showing him to Dundee. Dudee shoots the BGs trucks and Wally (don't worry, he lives) and goes off in the bush. I've asked this to the folks over at surplus rifles, but they don't know.

22lr

22LongRifle
September 1, 2007, 12:22 AM
Joe

I ment to say when I get an Enfield that is in pretty bad shape. I personally like the looks of the JC, but being 6'1", I like a little bit longer barrel and stock. I've got the carbine parts kit from gunparts and just waiting for a project rifle to come my ways.

My no4 mk1 has a great stock trigger and is a great shooter. The only thing that was wrong with it was the buttend of the stock was looked like it was chewed on by a beaver! I ordered another used stock and a brass buttplate for it. So I put a recoilpad on the chewed up stock. I'm looking for a better front sight still, a thinner one and possibly FO one from WILLIAMS. Hopefully this will help my eyes in the early morning.

BTW, I know its consider a "sin" to some folks to add somethings to these older weapons. But, if it keeps an old war horse back on the range or field, I think its better than keeping it as a wall hanger. I buy weapons to shoot, not to look at. "Monty" was going to go to be sent off and converted to 7.62 x 54r, but its got a near perect chamber and barrel keeps me from it. Its going to be my deer/coydog rifle in the woods til I get the cash up to have it reblued, walnut stock set, and the barrel re crowned. Then I'll have a beautiful piece of history that will still kill every deer and coyote in a two mile radius!

22lr

Aussie bloke!
September 1, 2007, 12:46 AM
G'day everyone,.....


22LongRifle
You should see if you can find a:
#7
#8
#9

Thay are all great .22LR training rifles and accurate as well.
I think Dundee's rifle was a sporterised No3.
Have'nt seen the movie for a while so not sure right off the top of my head.


Aussie.

elmerfudd
September 1, 2007, 01:10 AM
Don't sporterize it. Buy one that's already sporterized. When you sporterize a military rifle you ruin it's collectible value. You'll spend money and end up with something that's worth less than what you started with. If you're smart however this can be turned to your advantage. Just buy one that someone else has already butchered. There are plenty of them out there and that way they eat the cost and you get the rifle you want.

22LongRifle
September 1, 2007, 02:08 AM
When I see antoer set of five Enifield receivers on gunbroker for $200 again, I'm selling the youngest in slavery to get them!

Collectible value is in the eye of the beholder. My "Monty" was isssued in turket and CAI got it and remarked it and sold it to someone else then I got it. All it is is a post war rifle.

22lr

351 WINCHESTER
September 1, 2007, 05:42 PM
22LongRifle, I agree if you run a lot of ammo thru one I can see how the receiver could heat up to the point where it would warp. I'm not planning on shooting mine quite that fast.

Thanks for your input.

.45Guy
September 1, 2007, 05:50 PM
There's no reason why a good no. 5 won't do the job as is. The oversized aperture is handy as well!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/Picture002.jpg

22LongRifle
September 1, 2007, 11:54 PM
Yep, I'm not saying that the #5 was a dog out of the gate. I would like to get a post war one and then life would be good! But with everyone swapping them up, I think I'll have to settle on a homemade one from a crappy #4. Hopefully the barrel will be bad also and I'll have an excuse of turning it into a 308 as well.

Aussie, don't give me anymore rilfe I need to get! Those are some great looking rifles. I'll keep some money set aside for one if I ever come across them.

22lr

Aussie bloke!
September 2, 2007, 11:34 AM
G'day everyone,.......



Aussie, don't give me anymore rilfe I need to get! Those are some great looking rifles. I'll keep some money set aside for one if I ever come across them.

22lr


:):);)

Not trying to spend your hard earned,......but ya just gotta collect them all!!!!



I'll get around to posting a picture of mine soon.


Aussie.

MJ
September 2, 2007, 12:14 PM
Ha!
:neener:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5t003.jpg

DougW
September 2, 2007, 09:50 PM
Hey MJ, is the lower trigger guard screw missing?

MJ
September 3, 2007, 12:21 PM
I was working on the trigger guard fit to get the proper two stage on it. So it was off about six times that day. Sad about that barrel, the last 4" the rifeling is pitted. It still shoots 3 MOA, good for a pig it my conditions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt032.jpg

I shot a #5T in 7.62X51 one time that could put three in nickel at 200 yards. I have wanted on like it for a long time now.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/BisTheBeast.jpg

:neener:
MJ

DougW
September 3, 2007, 04:52 PM
MJ, you MUST have struck a deal with the devil, because you come up with some of the COOLEST stuff!

I have never heard of a 7.62X51 #5mk1T! There has to be only one in the world (which will be in your vault soon, if I read my tea leaves right!)

grumble..................

dm1333
September 3, 2007, 05:51 PM
All this talk about Enfields made me go into my bedroom to fondle one.

MJ
September 3, 2007, 05:58 PM
I know both of them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt206.jpg

MJ

BigdaddyG
September 4, 2007, 04:53 AM
I have an original #5 that shoots very well and has never had any zero problems.

I bought one of the Ishpore's in 7.62 and put a Leupold scout scope on it. Dang thing shoots 1 1/2" and better. It just needs a trigger job now.

What scope mount is that on all these guns?

Olian Lee
November 21, 2008, 02:27 PM
Looking for a high quality Jungle Carbine. Can anyone refer me to a good reliable source or dealer ? I have seen a number of carbines but have not found one worth the price asked. Thanks in advance. I am located in the Hudson Valley area of NY

30mag
November 21, 2008, 02:58 PM
If you don't mind plastic furniture, look around.
You ought to be able to find a Remington 700 or a Mossberg ATR-100 for $300 or so. (and cheaper used)
I'm looking at a friend's semi-auto Remington in .30-06 with a pretty nice scope (Bushnell) for just $350 and it has a nice custom thumb hole stock.

My rifle is a Mossberg, and it shoots fine, but I hate the scope that came with it.
I wouldn't recommend mil-surp over a new-ish lightly used rifle. Just my two cents.

A square 10
November 21, 2008, 10:11 PM
lotsa good answers to the original question , yes , a no5 is a fine deer rifle ,

and some good input on "the rifle" , it was made as a no5 not a modified no4 [except in design] and a no4 would be a great deer rifle too ,

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/MIKESBAYONETS041.jpg

no5 rifle is a faz - only FAZ and BSA made them ,

the no4s are FAZ & longbranch - also made by savage , maltby , BSA , and of coarse POF

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/MIKESBAYONETS040.jpg

the no1s and SMLEs -

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/MIKESBAYONETS045.jpg

ill add that neither a no5 nor a no4 is an SMLE - "short, magazine , lee enfeld" , technicality of coarse , but the wrong nomenclature doesnt educate , only the no1s were Smle's , started life as Smle's and got their name changed after the first world war to no1 , before the advent of the no4 or no5 rifles ,

if you wanted a modern version of the 'jungle carbine' you might buy a sante fe 303 conversion of the no4 , or an ausie 762 version - cant recall what they call them but i think its a no10 ? these are not vintage , but fine rifles from what ive read ,

Ignition Override
April 9, 2009, 05:34 AM
You guys can check many well-photographed rifles and other militaria, many of which were imported from Canada at:

"Joesalter.com":) . I just ordered a "Jungle Carbine" yesterday from him.
The originals have the features which were so well described and summarized by Gewehr 98.
Also... Mr. Salter photographs various details on each gun, which most sellers on 'GBroker' either don't consider important, or don't want to expose to a bright light ;)...

Gewehr 98: Ganz gut beschrieben und zusammengefasst.

Rubber_Duck
April 9, 2009, 06:35 AM
Hey everybody!

I posted this in another thread so I though I might as well post it here too along with a pic of mine:

I happen to have one of the "fake" Jungle Carbines. Mine is marked No.4 Mk.1, picked it up for $275 at a gunshow after some haggling. I like the Enfield for what is it, a very fast-cycling, high-capacity bolt-action design with good, accurate sights, but I never liked how they looked in standard configuration, but the JC has an almost sporterized look, yet they are authentic as they were actually made that way for a certain time. I am also very fond of shorter rifles. I like the Jungle Carbines a lot but I wasn't about to pay 500-600 dollars for a true No.5, and the fake ones may actually be better shooters since the wandering zero is supposedly caused by the lightening cuts on the barrels and receivers that the real No.5 carbines have.

I have shot my pseudo-JC and it shoots straight and consistently, I haven't tested for accuracy but so far I've been able to hit water jugs and such out to 150 yards. The rifle handles and balances very well, and recoil is IMO surprisingly mild (compared to a Mosin-Nagant carbine or an 8mm Kar 98K). I don't understand why so many are complaining about the recoil. The ammo situation is a crapshoot, however. I have some S&B FMJ that I was able to acquire from a private seller, but in general .303 Brit unavailable locally and is expensive online. I also have a box of Radway Green surplus but I don't plan on shooting any of it, as I hear it has all dried up and I got a good deal on it at $8 for a 32-round box. One option I have been considering is rechambering the rifle for 7.62x54R or better yet, 7.62 NATO (to keep it "western"), however there is an issue with bore diameter (.308" vs .311") and making the mags work with the aforementioned cartridges. Another option is reloading, but then Enfield chambers were made oversized to allow the use of dirty/corroded cartridges and as such the brass swells excessivley upon being fired and is not as reloadable as other calibers.

I am by no means a Lee-Enfield expert (far from it, actually) but the above info comes from my own research on the subject, any information/corrections from other members is more than welcome.

Here is a pic of my No.4 Mk.1 "fake" SMLE Jungle Carbine (notice the stock is "incorrect" for the JC):

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=95076&d=1238080098

porsche
April 9, 2009, 10:14 AM
olian lee. allan's armory has one jungle carbine left. he's had this one for a while, and it looks like it could use some help, but the price is right and might even be lowered.

civilian75
April 10, 2009, 05:08 PM
Dang it! I posted this in the wrong place and now I can't delete this post! @#$%^&


What is the twist rate of the 308 caliber Enfield? I want to build a mostly-sub-sonic 308 rifle on the cheap and though of the Ishapore, but I need the 1 in 10 fast twist for the heavy & long slugs I have in mind. I suspect it is 1 in 12 since most 7.62 NATO is light ball. Can anyone confirm?

bamawrx
July 30, 2009, 02:07 PM
I just purchased a jungle carbine, and fitted it with a Leupold VXIII 1.5-5 scope. I got a 2.5 inch three shot group with Remington Cor-lock's. I single fed the ammo and I had just cleaned the barrel. I did not use a fowling shot, so its possible I could do better.

Just curious what kinds of ammo you guys are using. I am not finding very much .303 ammo on the market.

351 WINCHESTER
July 30, 2009, 08:27 PM
That's pretty good accuracy especially from a clean bore. I'm assuming that was 100 yds.

bamawrx
August 9, 2009, 12:51 PM
Group was 100 yards distance. I thought it sounded very good compared to what I have been reading. Looking back on it... the low power of the scope and the trigger really hold the gun back. No telling how accurate the rifle really is.



Cool thing about the jungle carbine is just how far advanced the design is. Short barrel, short stock, bayonet lug, flash hider, detach magazine, etc.. Heck is a bolt action assault rifle!

351 WINCHESTER
August 9, 2009, 11:18 PM
They made an ideal hunting rifle. Have you tried reloading for it? It'll save you some money if you do a lot of shooting, but the best part is you can neck size your brass for a perfect fit in your chamber. My reloads are quite a bit more accurate than any factory stuff I've tried. Your results may vary.

By the way the mag. was intented to be left in the rifle and removed only for cleaning. I would be hard pressed to find a better bolt gun for hunting.

CaptainCrossman
January 31, 2010, 09:29 AM
old topic but worth reviving.

The best milsurp to groom into a hunting rifle is a Mauser 98, or Mauser 92-95, period. Add an $80 stock to a WWII K98 and you have as good a hunting rifle as you can buy anywhere, and to get that controlled feed design today, you'd have to spend $1000 for a new FN-made Winchester Model 70. You can buy a sporterized S. American Model 98 for $150-$250 to build from. I bought a 7.65 x 53 Peruvian Mauser that had an aftermarket trigger, side safety, synthetic stock, drilled/tapped/scope mount but no scope, bent down bolt handle, for only $154 out the door, and that included a box of 50 shells ammo. The gun would shoot a 3/4" group at 100 yards, I sold it for $250 easily on GB and the buyer loves it- what more can you ask for ? It was a trade-in at the gun shop.

If you want SMLE, that Jungle Carbine is the way to go. It's practically ready to hunt with as issued, lighter, handier, and short barrel. I have all 3 of the popular SMLE's- No. 1 Mk. III*, No. 4 Mk. I, and No. 5 Mk. I Jungle Carbine. All are 1940's WWII vintage.

The only one I've fired a lot so far, was the No. 4 Mk. I The truth is, all SMLE's suffer from "wandering zero" to some extent, because they are not bedded tightly into the fore end stock, and the stock is a 2-piece design. The buttstock screws into the action receiver with one long bolt, and the action is then clamped into the fore end by the front barrel band and magazine/trigger guard assembly. You can grab an SMLE barrel and move it around quite a bit in the stock- and that's exactly what happens when you shoot it, and the barrel begins to get hot and expand.

All the milsurps suffer from this trait to some extent, and many hunting rifles as well- being production line items, they weren't carefully bedded into the stock with tight tolerances for maximum accuracy.

The SMLE could use a little "accurizing" as issued. I took the No. 4 Mk. I and Acra-glass bedded it into the fore end stock. This is a slightly messy job, as the fiberglas resin runs out of all the small cracks, and must be wiped away after you clamp the barreled action back into the fore end- and the barrel must first be painted with release agent- but it can be done at home on your workbench or kitchen table.

After bedding, the gun became much more accurate and held zero much better. It only wandered slightly, i.e. the group will move up to the left as the barrel gets hot- but acceptable.

This is not unusual for any gun. I have a Browning A-bolt Gold Medallion in 7mm Rem Mag that puts the 3 first shots in one hole at 100 yards, then subsequent shots and groups open up a bit as the barrel gets hot. Perfectly normal- the barrel expands and moves, and has to go somewhere- typically it moves upward. So it even happens with new $600 hunting rifles.

Bed the barrel on an SMLE, then fire form/neck size/reload for that specific rifle, you'll have as accurate a hunting rifle as you'll ever need. For one shot game kills under 100 yards, the SMLE would work as issued- because they won't get hot enough to wander the zero, and you're only firing one shot. If you don't want to accurize it, you'll have to sight it in COLD. Then wait until it cools down again, then continue to sight it in. Because if you keep moving the sights around as it gets hot, it will not shoot there when it cools down again and the barrel contracts. This means fire 3 shots, move the zero, then wait 1/2 hour for it to completely cool down, then fire another group and check it. You want to simulate a cold gun condition that you just walked into the woods with for deer season.

The Mosin Nagant isn't even in the same class as a Mauser or SMLE. I've seen those at gun shows for $125 with 5 boxes of ammo, and a custom stock/scope- with no buyers. They are just crude weapons- but they too can be made accurate. You can accurize anything, it's just a matter of money and time. A Mosin Nagant is about the cheapest milsurp you can buy- to be honest I'd take a Jap Type 99 or Type 38, over a Mosin.

One big advantage of the SMLE, it has a quicker action than a Mauser or Springfield, and has a shorter bolt throw, and a large magazine capacity. R. Lee Emery just did a shootout between Springfield and SMLE on dinner plates, and the Aussie shooting the SMLE beat him easily. They had to break 20 plates in the quickest time from prone position. You can't argue with success.

CaptainCrossman
January 31, 2010, 09:50 AM
here's 2 of mine- I read a few of the early posts in this thread, calling these rifles "puss" and junk- that is simply not true- they are beautiful rifles in their own right. The fit and finish approaches or even surpasses the German Mauser milsurps- although admittedly the SMLE is a somewhat inferior design from the strength and accuracy standpoint. SMLE's did have a higher rate of fire and shorter bolt throw than a Mauser though- so in actual battle conditions they were the equal of any bolt action of the time.

http://i50.tinypic.com/33jn20z.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/oit4y0.jpg

Rubber_Duck
January 31, 2010, 03:18 PM
CaptainCrossman, what type of scope mount is that in the second pic?

CaptainCrossman
January 31, 2010, 03:36 PM
that's a Williams scope mount, attached with (3) fine thread machine screws into the left side of the receiver, with flat thumbwheel nuts to hold the scope mount onto the vertical mount portion- it's quite sturdy and better than the newer scope mount I bought for my SMLE No.4 rifle

the eye relief on it is perfect

CaptainCrossman
January 31, 2010, 03:38 PM
here's a better view of the scope mount from left side- with that scope mount I can still use the basic open rear peep sight as well, it's a "brush mount"- but cannot flip the rear sight up of course

http://i46.tinypic.com/xdgutg.jpg

rondog
January 31, 2010, 04:26 PM
My God, there's some IGNORANT comments on the first couple of pages of this thread! Some really stupid internet commandos here in 2006, I hope they're gone now.

I found this 1947 Fazakerly No. 5 last year in a pawn shop for $150. It's the real deal, not a conversion, and in excellent shape except for the scope addition. Sweet little rifle that shoots great. Of course, that leather belt sling went in the trash and was replaced with a correct one. I've also installed a correct 800yd. rear sight assembly, which was missing.

If I were a hunter, this would be a perfect rifle for it.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN2383.jpg

DougW
January 31, 2010, 09:11 PM
The barrels on #4 and #5 Enfields are supposed to "float" under the hand guards. The reason is so that in wet climates, the swelling of the wood would not affect the battle zero of the rifle. This was learned with the ShtLe MkIII, or the #1mkIII in WWI in the trenches of Belgium..

Ignition Override
February 1, 2010, 03:13 AM
The British Army wanted to convert to semi-autos after WW2 and reportedly created or amplified the 'wandering zero' legend, in order to help justify the next generation weapons.

Both of my LE #5s, even using Pakistani surplus, are much more accurate than both of my former MN 44s (bayonets extended, or folded) were at 50 yards, using Bulgarian ammo.

Lee-Enfield #4, #5 and military Mausers. What a group.:)

rogertc1
February 1, 2010, 05:52 AM
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/rogertc1/Carbines.jpg

Australian Arms International M10-A2 7.62X39
Enfield JC 303
Spanish FR8 308
Swedish Mauser carbine 6.5X55

madcratebuilder
February 1, 2010, 07:46 AM
Cool, a resurrected Enfield thread, can I play? Can't have to many Enfields.

Top to bottom

Santa Fe Arms sporter
No5 MkI faz
No4 MkII faz 55 UF
No4 MkI Maltby
No4 MkI Savage-Stevens
No4 MkI faz donor for TR clone project
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/enfields12-24-09.jpg

No4 MkI faz late war time PF rifle, a buy it now off gunbroker for $150.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/jan0903.jpg

No4 MkII Irish Contract in the wrap
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/My%20Irish%20rifle/unwrap01.jpg
Got the cosmoline off this weekend
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/stripedirish01.jpg

My pride and joy
No4 MkI (T)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/sniper02.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/My%20Sniper/m3201.jpg

Set up for mil-surp comp.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/No4PH003.jpg

group17
February 2, 2010, 12:36 PM
Found this MK4 sporter for $170. Added the scope and it's great for hunting.
Enfield Sporters are actually cheaper finds than the stock military rifles and much less shot.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu329/sikider/P1000021.jpg

cornman
February 2, 2010, 03:28 PM
What kind of kick does a jungle have?

MissouriCrowinMass
February 2, 2010, 10:23 PM
I don't think the kick momentum-wise is any worse than a .30-30. The trouble is that the butt-plate had a narrow rubber cushion protruding from it about 3/4". These cushions hardened into ROCKS after 70 years and hit your shoulder like a framing hammer. Firing a few shots is agony. I put a butt pad on mine like the fellow posted above. Anybody that says they shoot their's alot without a buttpad is a better man than me. With the buttpad they are a pleasure to shoot. I love to shoot mine more than my K-31's and Mosin's.

madcratebuilder
February 3, 2010, 07:22 AM
What kind of kick does a jungle have?

More than a No4. The lighter weight and small rubber pad doesn't help, plus the pad is hard as a rock. You can get new repro pads from Numrich. A slip on pad helps if your recoil sensitive.

rogertc1
February 3, 2010, 09:13 AM
Darn everyone. I was trying to stop buying guns.
After this thread I am jonesing to buy the SHTLE III RIFLE I came across and can't get out of my head. I want an Enfield with the round cut off.

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