Any legal limit to how much ammo you can have?


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whm1974
July 29, 2006, 03:14 PM
I seem to run across people who this for some reason. But I have had people tell that me there is a Federal Law restricting how much ammo a person can have at one time. And it's always 5,000 centerfire rounds and so much Rimfire.

Is there any truth to this? Now I read fire codes that stated how much powder you can have or how to store large amount. Even banning Black Powder. But not ammo.

-Bill

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Car Knocker
July 29, 2006, 03:43 PM
There is no federal law that I am aware of limiting the amount of ammunition one may possess. Urban legend.

Jorg Nysgerrig
July 29, 2006, 03:48 PM
Around the AWB time, Schumer wanted to require licenses for owning more than 1,000 rounds. That didn't go anywhere and I don't believe any other federal legislation regarding the matter has passed.

SIOP
July 29, 2006, 04:02 PM
Your Fire Marshall might have a limitation, but the feds don't, to my knowledge.

beerslurpy
July 29, 2006, 05:37 PM
I think some localities have explicit limitations and others may have limitations based on fire hazards etc. If you live in an apartment, storing a million rounds of ammunition may prove difficult. Rounds in teh closet, under the bed, under the sink, over the stove, in the stove. But this wouldnt be a problem unless there is an explosion or a fire marshal somehow ends up inside your apartment.

A friend in SF once got the cops called on him when a landlady found a room with reloading equipment and guns and ammunition everywhere. He collects military relics and has several registered weapons from before 2000. The cops didnt do anything because he wasnt breaking any laws.

LAR-15
July 29, 2006, 05:40 PM
At one time, maybe.

No such law now.

armoredman
July 29, 2006, 06:06 PM
Limits? Sure, by storage space.

tellner
July 29, 2006, 07:59 PM
At some point it will exceed the capacity of your floor to hold it up and you will be in violation of building codes :D

gunsmith
July 29, 2006, 08:06 PM
let me know!
I will be glad to hold onto some of your more expenive guns and will
store your .308
.223
.40s&w
.357mag.....of course for quality control I will use some once in awhile:neener:

Shipwreck
July 29, 2006, 08:36 PM
The limit is a compound full :p :p :p :D

ChestyP
July 29, 2006, 09:21 PM
you may find that there are restrictions on how many primers may be possessed, or restricted by storage method. Powder, especially black powder, may also be restricted... usually something to the effect of XX pounds in original containers, or "powder magazine required in excess of XX pounds."

Loaded ammunition generally carries no possession prohibitions (except in NJ where everything is prohibited).

kirkcdl
July 29, 2006, 09:28 PM
Why in the world would you ever tell (or admit to) anyone in the government,be it Federal,State,County,or Local,how much ammunition you have???:confused: :confused:

cassandrasdaddy
July 29, 2006, 10:12 PM
guy i bought my first house from in 78 blew himselk and wife up a year later.
i mean big time. there were a half million unexploded rounds in his house plus some c4 and a lotta real exotic toys. f he hadn't been scattered over 2 blocks woulda been major charges. he was a cop armorer for dc police. was running a security firm seems a lotta the guns came through back door at work, dc provides some good toys too

whm1974
July 30, 2006, 01:15 PM
A friend in SF once got the cops called on him when a landlady found a room with reloading equipment and guns and ammunition everywhere. He collects military relics and has several registered weapons from before 2000. The cops didnt do anything because he wasnt breaking any laws.

Myself to afford problems, I would be upfront to a landlord about owing guns. I would tell him about all the guns I own, or how much ammo I have at one time, but...

Why in the world would you ever tell (or admit to) anyone in the government,be it Federal,State,County,or Local,how much ammunition you have???

I wouldn't. But if you brought ammo online or with a CC, you now have a record.

-Bill

Archie
July 30, 2006, 07:55 PM
guy i bought my first house from in 78 blew himselk and wife up a year later.
i mean big time. there were a half million unexploded rounds in his house plus some c4 and a lotta real exotic toys. f he hadn't been scattered over 2 blocks woulda been major charges. he was a cop armorer for dc police. was running a security firm seems a lotta the guns came through back door at work, dc provides some good toys tooI gotta nickel says the composition C4 had more to do with the explosion than any amount of gunpowder or loaded rounds.

'Smokeless' gunpowder does not explode. It burns pretty fast, but not nearly like gasoline fumes.

Composition C4, on the other hand, is an explosive. It is designed and intended to explode. If memory serves me correctly, most states and the District of Colombia require a permit or license to own, store or use 'explosives'.

As gently as I can say this, old boy, you are comparing apples to watermelons.

LCSNM
July 30, 2006, 08:33 PM
C4 is normally safe until detonated by blasting cap or bullet type force.
I have cut it with a knife into smaller pieces, molded it like clay around items to be destroyed . Real hard to work with if cold, but when warm like putty or clay molding. Sure makes a mess of things when detonated.

DMF
July 30, 2006, 08:34 PM
'Smokeless' gunpowder does not explode.Really? Seems no one told Eric Rudolph, or his victims that. :rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153294,00.html
A description of the Olympic Park bombing was included in the Atlanta portion of the deal with the feds, detailing a bomb made of "three 12-inch-long metal plumbing pipes stacked in a pyramid, each packed with smokeless powder and covered with more than 5 pounds of 3-inch cut masonry nails designed to be propelled from the bomb as additional shrapnel."

HankB
July 30, 2006, 08:40 PM
When I was a kid I remember a guy's wife called the cops on him for all the "ammo and gun stuff" he had in the basement.

Cops took one look, evaculated the block and called the bomb squad.

Bomb squad came, took one look, and called the Army. :what:

Turns out the guy was military and had been stealing machine guns, mortars, mortar rounds, bazooka rockets, satchel charges, blasting blocks, Bangalore torpedos, primacord, and everything he could get his hands on for years.

They took several truckloads of stuff out of his basement.

This happened decades ago, but my guess is that if he's still alive, he's probably a resident of the Graybar Motel.

Preacherman
July 30, 2006, 09:45 PM
Hank, I had a similar experience back in South Africa many years ago - and with an Army armorer, as well.

I was woken at about midnight in my apartment by cops knocking on the door. I had to dress and evacuate into a city park across the road, along with all the residents of my building and all others in our block. We noticed a number of police vehicles, including an armored truck used by the Bomb Squad, parked around the block, but concentrated on the building next door to mine.

After a while, along came an Army EOD truck, with a crew of specialists. They went into the building next to ours, and stayed there for some time. By now it was after 2 a.m., and most of us were pretty P.'ed O. at being stuck in this park with no explanation. Fortunately, it was a summer night, so temperatures were pleasant, and there was no rain.

Next thing to happen (about 3 a.m.) was the arrival of a dozen Army trucks, which parked down the center of the road. Troops debussed and formed a human chain into the apartment building, and began passing boxes and bags from hand to hand and loading up each truck in turn. Took 7 trucks to contain the whole lot. Each truck in turn pulled up to the entrance and was loaded, then turned onto a side street and waited. MP's on motorbikes escorted the convoy and kept watch.

While this was going on, I went over to a cop near the gate and asked him what was going on. He informed me that they'd had a domestic violence call to the building, and after arresting the guy concerned, had found a bedroom of his apartment filled to ceiling height with boxes of explosives, ammo, etc. Turns out he'd also rented the apartment next door, and it (all 5 rooms, including kitchen and bathroom) was similarly filled!

They eventually took out something like 9 or 10 tons of explosives, ammo, and ordnance. Seems the guy had been in Army ordnance for some years, and had been bringing "souvenirs" home every night from the "office". He apparently planned to sell them off to finance his retirement. Needless to say, the latter was taken care of at the Grey Bar Hotel, where he didn't have to pay a thing for his lodgings for some years to come . . . :uhoh:

BIGJACK
July 30, 2006, 10:05 PM
Smokeless powder will not explod in "normal" thin week walled containers, cans or barrels, WHOOMP-shoushhhhhhhhh is about what you get.:)

However, if you contain it in such a manner as to allow the pressure to build up as would happen in a thick walled pipe capped at each end, when ignited it will explode--BOOOOOOM! :eek:

Hey! but so will water if you applie enough heat.:neener:

Jim K
July 30, 2006, 10:05 PM
The idea that smokeless powder doesn't explode is technically true, but it can make a pretty effective bomb nonetheless. In WWI, many American "offensive" grenades were loaded with Bullseye pistol powder.

Jim

ilbob
July 30, 2006, 10:48 PM
I seem to recall there are a few states (MD comes to mind) and some larger cities that require some kind of permit to store more than a limited amount of ammo and/or ammo components, especially black powder.

If you think this is harsh, think about this - most cities limit how much gasoline you can store in your garage. Those two 5 gallons cans of gas you use to refill your lawnmower and snowblower might put you over the limit.

whm1974
July 30, 2006, 11:34 PM
They eventually took out something like 9 or 10 tons of explosives, ammo, and ordnance. Seems the guy had been in Army ordnance for some years, and had been bringing "souvenirs" home every night from the "office". He apparently planned to sell them off to finance his retirement.

He should have sold the stuff as soon as possible. The ammo I could see keeping, but the other stuff....

I seem to recall there are a few states (MD comes to mind) and some larger cities that require some kind of permit to store more than a limited amount of ammo and/or ammo components, especially black powder.

If you think this is harsh, think about this - most cities limit how much gasoline you can store in your garage. Those two 5 gallons cans of gas you use to refill your lawnmower and snowblower might put you over the limit.


How do they enforce this? Most gun owners probley have well over 1000 rnds of ammo. And after this power outrage we just had here, I think quite a few people are stockpiling gas for thier generaters.

-Bill

Zen21Tao
July 30, 2006, 11:49 PM
As far as I know the only limitation is your bank account(s). I know quite a few people that, knowing how the great bulk buy deals could dry up at any time, horde all the mil-surp ammo they can.

TallPine
July 31, 2006, 12:03 AM
Seems the guy had been in Army ordnance for some years, and had been bringing "souvenirs" home every night from the "office".

he got it one piece at a time, and it didn't cost him a dime ...:D

I wonder if anybody ever tried to steal a tank that way ...? ;)

whm1974
July 31, 2006, 01:06 AM
I wonder if anybody ever tried to steal a tank that way ...?

When I was a kid back in the 80's, I heard storyis on how veitnam vets would ship M16s and AKs back home a few parts at a time.

-Bill

cassandrasdaddy
July 31, 2006, 01:11 AM
they ever figured out what blew up whole wing of new house went away the stuff i mentioned was found after unexploded firefighters hada wait till rounds stopped cooking off to extinguish what ll fire remained seems he spread the fuel out to much for good fire. he seemed like a nice guy a lil wierd but was cool to me.

strambo
July 31, 2006, 01:19 AM
I wonder if anybody ever tried to steal a tank that way ...?

One of my battalion maintenence officers said a mechanic tried to steal a HMMWV that way. Finally got caught when it came to major end items like engine! You can get away with small routinely broken/replaced parts for quite awhile.

HankB
July 31, 2006, 09:21 AM
I wonder if anybody ever tried to steal a tank that way ...? Wouldn't some of the critical pieces be a might too big for a lunch pail . . . or even the bed of your typical pickup truck?

Preacherman: I wonder if the guy in my story (which I only heard on the news) and your neighbor were related?

Ammo is one thing, but I find the idea of tons of explosives in the basement . . . unsettling. :scrutiny:

confed sailor
July 31, 2006, 11:55 AM
i read that line and instantly cranked ol'JC up.

Its a running joke here in the shipyard, gonna get me a S6G one piece at a time.

Creeping Incrementalism
July 31, 2006, 12:24 PM
Its a running joke here in the shipyard, gonna get me a S6G one piece at a time.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/eng/s6g.htm

Joke's aren't funny if you have to look up the answer to "get it", but go to the link if you are curious.

And what is it with military demo people hoarding explosives? An acquaintance of a friend did several years of time for that while in the military.

Regarding the thread's topic directly, I know in California there are limits for ammunition components, unless you have the required fireproofing, but no limited on fixed cartridges.

EShell
July 31, 2006, 12:59 PM
I seem to recall there are a few states (MD comes to mind) and some larger cities that require some kind of permit to store more than a limited amount of ammo and/or ammo components, especially black powder.

For a few years, they suggested/attempted to limit residential powder storage under a "firecode guideline". Sort of a backdoor restriction that seemed to limit what local dealers sold but not much else . . .

IIRC, it was something like under 20#. Anything exceeding the limit was required to be stored in a "magazine" (Cabelas @ $250). This guideline never really was "the law" and is not in force in MD at this time.

Conversely, Illinois (for one) does limit smokeless powder storage to 25# as per their explosives ordinaces:IL Explosives Act (http://dnr.state.il.us/mines/bed/explosive.pdf)

brickeyee
July 31, 2006, 01:37 PM
Smokeless still makes lousy bombs.
It is the difference between a container bursting (smokeless) and a true detonation that reduces the walls of the container to shrapnel instantly from a shock wave.
You do not want to get hit with pieces from either, but the smokeless will have fewer but larger pieces typically.
A correctly shaped container would be better for smokeless. Think pineapple.

MikeH
July 31, 2006, 01:49 PM
No 8-lb super-saver jugs for us MDers without license. No reloading if you live in apartments either.

http://www.firemarshal.state.md.us/expl.htm

Maryland Code
Public Safety Article - Title 11. Explosives
Subtitle 1. License to Engage in Business as Manufacturer or Dealer or to Possess Explosives

11-105. License required; exceptions.
(d) Same - Possession of explosives for use in firearms.-

(1) Subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection, a person need not obtain a license to possess or store up to 5 pounds of smokeless powder for the loading or reloading of small arms ammunition, and up to 5 pounds of black powder for the loading or reloading of small arms ammunition or for use in the loading of antique arms or replicas of antique arms, if the smokeless powder and black powder are stored in their original shipping containers and are possessed only for personal use in firearms.

(2) A person may not possess or store explosives for use in firearms in any quantity in multifamily dwellings, apartments, dormitories, hotels, schools, other public buildings, or buildings or structures open for public use.

cbsbyte
July 31, 2006, 02:06 PM
Well, I don't believe there are any Federal restrictions on how much small arms ammo one can have, though one should check their State and municiple/town laws in case there are restrictions. I know in Massachusetts their are state and also many towns have restrictions on how much small arms ammo, and powder you can have at one time without needing a special permit from the local fire dept and/or state hazardious materials license. The state restricts a person to having a max of 10,000 CF, 5,000 shotgun, 10,000 RF, 1000 primers and 16 Lbs of smokeless powder, and 2 lbs of black powder without needing a local permit. Also their is an age requirment of 18 years old to posses everything mentioned above. You also need a FID or LTC to buy ammo, and reloading componets.

http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/powder.html

HankB
July 31, 2006, 02:15 PM
I'd be willing to wager there are a lot of people in Mass. who are violating the limit on primer storage. (No more than 1000 without a permit . . . )

cbsbyte
July 31, 2006, 02:18 PM
I don't know anyone who violates Mass laws, we are very upstanding citizens. ;)

tellner
July 31, 2006, 02:33 PM
Wouldn't some of the critical pieces be a might too big for a lunch pail . . . or even the bed of your typical pickup truck?

Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time" :)

whm1974
July 31, 2006, 04:48 PM
I'd be willing to wager there are a lot of people in Mass. who are violating the limit on primer storage. (No more than 1000 without a permit . . . )

I think when I started reloading I brought 2000 primers at one time.

-Bill

confed sailor
July 31, 2006, 05:24 PM
Joke's aren't funny if you have to look up the answer to "get it", but go to the link if you are curious.

Im sorry creeping, i didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Look at it this way, i forced you to learn something new and useless :neener:

Mannlicher
July 31, 2006, 07:42 PM
Only 5000 Centerfire rounds allowed? Boy, lots of us are in big trouble. :evil:

History Prof
July 31, 2006, 08:16 PM
Myself to afford problems, I would be upfront to a landlord about owing guns. I would tell him about all the guns I own, or how much ammo I have at one time, but...

Well, that certainly is your right, but I'd take into consideration that the landlord may have a big mouth and some tenants may not be the most honest sort. When I was a poor college student, living in questionable near-campus housing, no one but my wife and my shooting buddies knew what I had...

Zach S
July 31, 2006, 08:43 PM
Last time this came up it seems like someone said you cant buy more than 5000 rounds at a time per the .gov. I never looked it up, because other than cheap rimfire, I cant afford to buy ammo 5k rounds at a time. Sometimes I cant afford that because I put around 300 to 400 miles a week on a 4200 tank that gets 16mpg.

Car Knocker
July 31, 2006, 08:54 PM
Last time this came up it seems like someone said you cant buy more than 5000 rounds at a time per the .gov.

Not true.

whm1974
July 31, 2006, 11:13 PM
Well, that certainly is your right, but I'd take into consideration that the landlord may have a big mouth and some tenants may not be the most honest sort. When I was a poor college student, living in questionable near-campus housing, no one but my wife and my shooting buddies knew what I had...

Well I wouldn't say how many guns I have or how much ammo I have on hand. I just don't want some landlord to come in doing repairs and calling the police because he thinks I have a few machine guns.

But I do see your point. In some areas I wouldn't mention my hobby.

Last time this came up it seems like someone said you cant buy more than 5000 rounds at a time per the .gov.

No, but it doesn't mean you won't raise a red flag somewhere if you buy more then a case or two of ammo. Even 5000 rounds of 22LR might be looked at.

-Bill

Eightball
July 31, 2006, 11:27 PM
If you live in an apartment, storing a million rounds of ammunition may prove difficult.Just maybe.

.....Why would anyone steal bangalore torpedoes? I can understand the other stuff, but bangalores? What are you going to do, blow up sandcastles on the beach? :scrutiny:

Taking a tank home one piece at a time might sound intelligent, but try and get that main turret armour home without anyone noticing....you manage to get a tank, however, and I'm willing to help crew it:D . Same thing for the ship that surrounds that SG6.

kengrubb
July 31, 2006, 11:40 PM
Any legal limit to how much ammo you can have?
Not a legal limit, but when your thumbs are bleeding and the walls of your magazines start bulging ...
:neener:

carebear
July 31, 2006, 11:56 PM
No, but it doesn't mean you won't raise a red flag somewhere if you buy more then a case or two of ammo. Even 5000 rounds of 22LR might be looked at.

It can't raise a red flag if it no one is aware but the seller. As far as I know there is no Federal notification requirement on large or multiple ammo purchases so no one will ever know and no red flags will be generated.

I know MY ammo guy doesn't care how much I buy at a time. He'd probably like me to buy more.

And I would, but I've been slacking off on the "UU" part.

CNYCacher
August 1, 2006, 12:40 AM
Various comments about landlords finding your stash.

Come live in one of my apartments. I take rent payments in cash, check, money order, .22, .30-06 and 12ga! :cool:

whm1974
August 1, 2006, 01:34 AM
It can't raise a red flag if it no one is aware but the seller. As far as I know there is no Federal notification requirement on large or multiple ammo purchases so no one will ever know and no red flags will be generated.

I would imagen after 9/11 the govenment is watching online ammo vendors more closer then before. Of course certein calibers people buy 1000's time so there would info overload.

Come live in one of my apartments. I take rent payments in cash, check, money order, .22, .30-06 and 12ga!

What about 9mm? I seem to have 600 rounds or so of that.

-Bill

HankB
August 1, 2006, 09:07 AM
Why would anyone steal bangalore torpedoes?Because they weren't nailed down? :rolleyes:

whm1974
August 2, 2006, 02:01 AM
I think the question is why steal something you have no use for or can't sell.

-Bill

carebear
August 2, 2006, 02:06 AM
I consider "blowing stuff up because it's cool" a perfectly justifiable reason to have explosives. :D

About the only thing I can't do as a member of the 1st Civ Div that I could do as a Marine is blow up big things using wayyyyyyyyy more explosive than the formulas would indicate.

I would feel guilty about the theft part.

whm1974
August 2, 2006, 03:13 AM
About the only thing I can't do as a member of the 1st Civ Div that I could do as a Marine is blow up big things using wayyyyyyyyy more explosive than the formulas would indicate.

I've heard that vets would claim they used more C4 then was needed during training so they could take the extra home.

-Bill

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