[loonie]

I chose sig sauer p226 9mm as my first handgun, and thinking which should be my second handgun, I concern about reliability,accuracy and appearance(maybe it's too picky to make a choice:D ). just list some I am thinking of.
1. Sig Sauer 1911
2. Colt 1911
3. Springfield Armory 1911
4. Smith & Wesson 1911
5. Para-Ordinance 1911
6. Glock 21
....

[Stickjockey]

Why is Kimber not on the list?

[Phenom]

Springfield Armory, Why settle for less???

[hso]

You've got a bunch of 1911s and then the Glock?:scrutiny:

If the 1911 points properly for you then the Glock won't. If the Glock points properly for you then the 1911s won't. A BHP points naturally for me while for a buddy of mine it's the 1911 and for her husband it's the CZ-75 and for another friend it's the Glock. And the 1911 points differently depending up whether it's a flat or bowed or humped spring.

You shold choose your first handgun based on how it points and on it's reliability. A first gun that runs is no where near as much fun as a first gun that fits.;)

[loonie]

ok,just forgot about my list, any good list are quite welcomed;) I just want my handgun stable,reliable,no-fault-working within 50 thousands of rounds and relatively accurate:p does this kind of handgun exist except p226?

[Phenom]

Yeah, the Sig P220 and Springfield 1911s.

[Vitamin G]

You seem to want any 1911. I too, have a bunch of 1911's and a lonely glock. I can't get used to the grip angle. I could be wrong, but after shooting a springfield XD, it seemed to have the same grip angle as a 1911! I was in love...

I'll marry it after they make it in 10mm.

[albanian]

"1. Sig Sauer 1911
2. Colt 1911
3. Springfield Armory 1911
4. Smith & Wesson 1911
5. Para-Ordinance 1911
6. Glock 21"

:barf:

1911s and Glocks?:barf: Who cares?

[Werewolf]

Other than you shud'a got that P226 in .40 S&W- IMO - you chose one fine weapon.

For your 2nd handgun off your list I'd go with the S&W 1911. Very, very accurate, nice wood, nice finish (I've got a stainless one), external extractor (better than an internal one IMO) and just one heck of a nice 1911. More pricey than the Springfields but well worth it IMO.

[gunsmith]

the reason I ask is that some ranges (like Jackson Arms near San Francisco)
have a bunch of guns that you can rent to see what you like.

I carry a glock because they work all the time. You pull the trigger it goes bang.
I love the 1911 for the history and how cool and accurate they can be.

[Jim K]

If you place reliability first, why are you limiting yourself to autoloaders?

Buy a good, medium frame revolver in .357 (a good, used M19 is around $250) and learn to shoot it DA. In other words, learn to hit with it, not spray rounds all over and hope one of them connects with something hazardous. And it will continue to work, with monotonous regularity, for thousands of rounds.

Why include appearance? And forget "cool," and history. Kiddies dreaming about real guns might care about "cool" and collectors might care about "history." But if someone is trying to kill you he isn't going to give a damn about either. Believe me, "cool" never put a slug in a bad guy's brain.

Jim

[lionking]

add the H&K USP .45 auto to the list also,my personal favorite.In the end though you'll have to decide for yourself,all that you have on the list are good handguns.

[STAGE 2]

Either an HK USP or a sig 220. Beyond that, if I was set on a 1911 I would go with springfield armory.

No doubt I will step on a few toes by saying this, but kimber is junk. Para ordinance I don't think is all that great either. I can't speak to S&W, but if their 1911's are anything like the revolvers they are putting out these days then I'd steer clear of them too. Colts have been iffy in the past but are supposedly getting better. As for the sig 1911, (and this is coming from a guy who thinks the 220 is the finest metal DA auto out there) if you're going to buy a sig then buy a sig, not some other gun with their name etched in the side.

As I don the flame suit I will say this. People have been ranting and raving about springfield armory's products in general. Especially so with the GI and milspec 1911's. These lower end models are not as flashy as some of the other choices you listed, but at the end of the day they have become notorious for working and working well. Also they will run you anywhere from 200-400 less than any of the other makers.

Just my .02

[loonie]

to gunsmith,as my name states,i live in Canada...

[MachIVshooter]

If you are going to go with a 1911, I'd recommend Kimber or S&W, whichever one has the goodies you want.

If you like Springfield, you might as well get a Taurus 1911 and save a couple hundred bucks, since they're both made in Brazil.

Colt is overpriced for what you get, and their quality has not kept up with others the past 25 years or so.

The GSR is barely a 1911, and I personally found Kimbers and S&W's in the GSR's price range to shoot better (and look better).

Para makes good 1911's (both SA and LDA), but they are Canadian:scrutiny:

If you were considering the Springer GI, I'd suggest the Rock Island. It is a more accurate reproduction and, AFAIK, is made here (costs less, too).

[loonie]

to Stage 2,if i buy 1911,i would choose springfield armory's:D
to everybody above,thanks for your suggestions:)

[jerkface11]

How about #7 a CZ-97. Pure CZ-75 goodness but in .45acp. Which gives it the advantage of not being a 1911 or a glock.

[MidnightRambler]

Out of the ones on the list, the Glock 21 is the only one I'd take.

[Lone_Gunman]

Buy a good, medium frame revolver in .357 (a good, used M19 is around $250)

I think you underestimated the average price by at least $50, but I do agree the 357 mag would make an outstanding choice.

Just don't get one of the new S&W's with the lock.

[gunsmith]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Loonie_reverse_view.png/150px-Loonie_reverse_view.png

I had no idea Loonie!...thanks!to gunsmith,as my name states,i live in Canada..

You see we in the state have a saying "crazy as a loon" and "looney"
means mad or crazy ...insane.

You "misunderestimated" the average Americans knowledge of Canada.

[SAG0282]

Of those listed, the GLOCK, though I generally prefer SIG pistols. I think your 226 is the finest combat/defensive pistol ever made.

[ugaarguy]

If you are going to go with a 1911, I'd recommend Kimber or S&W, whichever one has the goodies you want.

If you like Springfield, you might as well get a Taurus 1911 and save a couple hundred bucks, since they're both made in Brazil.

The Taurus 1911 is a new product and unproven; the Springfields have established their durability and reliability. By your logic if Hi-Point were to start making a 1911 I should buy it and save myself several hundred dollars, since, like the Kimbers and S&Ws, it is made in the USA. EDIT: A more accurate comparison would be a US Made Auto Ordnance 1911 being considered the equal of the Smiths & Kimbers based on nothing more than country of manufacture.

If you were considering the Springer GI, I'd suggest the Rock Island. It is a more accurate reproduction and, AFAIK, is made here (costs less, too).

Nope, the Rock Island is made in the Phillipines, and it is a very nice plain jane 1911, regardless of where it's made. Had I not been able to find a nice used Springfield for the same price I would have purchased a new RIA 1911.

Para makes good 1911's (both SA and LDA), but they are Canadian

Our friend Loonie IS Canadian.

[Ala Dan]

Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special 1911 from MY list~!:cool:

From YOUR list, why not a Springfield "Professional Model" TRP~? :D

Both, good guns and both are kind'a pricey~!:uhoh: :eek:

[hso]

I've got a Colt Commander and a couple of Paras that have behaved well. Why not go with the 'home team' and get a Para?

[Geno]

Have you picked up one of the Glock 21s? They are massive. I like Glocks, and carry a G17 most days. But, the difference between the 1911 and the G21 is too much.

Re: the 1911s, I would stick to a Colt. You get what you pay for in that case. You also get nostalgia. Just my thoughts.

Doc2005

[Essex County]

I have a Kimber and a Norico for 1911's. Next one will be a Smith..Essex

[erh]

If you like the P226 9mm, why not the "Same Gun" that just makes a "Bigger Hole"..? A SIG P220 :) :confused:

[10-Ring]

You know, my first choice in a 1911 is Colt, but in your case, it might be cool to have an exclusive manufacturer kind of collection. In that case, go w/ the SIG 1911...neat combo of 226 & their 1911 ;)

[1man]

+1 for Springfield

[Busta Prima]

If appearance is important to you, scratch Springfield off that list unless you go with their top models. The Glock isn't very pretty either and I agree that it doesn't really belong on that list because all it has in common is that you have to fill out paperwork to buy it . . . oh and maybe the caliber!

Kimbers are very attractive and well loved . . . and if you're putting a Glock on the list, there is no reason an XD-45 shouldn't be on that list.

:neener:

[Zen21Tao]

In .45acp I have a Springfield 1911 "loaded", Norinco 1911, Para Ordnance LDA Tac-4, HK USP, and a Sig P245. I would recommend any of these guns. The 1911s are great if you want a customizable target gun. The HK and Tac-4 are great if you want a high capacity tactical gun. The Sig is ideal if you want a .45ACP concealed carry gun.

Also, you might also consider a 10mm. It has the power of a .45 with the magazine capacity of a 9mm or .40S&W. I have a Glock 29 10mm that I use as a daily IWB carry gun. For even more IWB concealability I have a Glock 27 and a Sig P239 both in .40S&W. For pocket carry I have an AMT Backup .45acp and a Taurus 850 .38spl.

In conclusion, it all depends on what you want the gun is for.

[Zen21Tao]

If appearance is important to you, scratch Springfield off that list...

Funny my springfield looks rather good to me.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3672/resized1911ht6.jpg

[Supertac45]

You Sir deserve a Les Baer 1911. Check out their website: www.lesbaer.com or call 1-309-658-2716 for a catalog. Once you shoot one, every other 1911 is 2nd. best.

[1911_CQB]

The Springers.

[Busta Prima]

Funny my springfield looks rather good to me.

Funny . . . oh, that you can't READ or that you took me out of context? I said after that "unless you go with their top models." The lower end models are pretty rough and he said in the first post that appearance was a factor in this decision.

;)

[ugaarguy]

If appearance is important to you, scratch Springfield off that list unless you go with their top models.

I suppose appearance, good or bad, is in the eye of the beholder. I like my bottom end Springfield GI. The parkerizing is a very nice, even, matte black. The "US" 'Diamond' grips aren't beauty queens, but they are far from ugly too. The other nice thing is that the parked finish is pretty tough so I don't have to baby it like I do my blued Hi-Power.

Loonie, speaking of the P-35/Hi-Power, how hard is it to get an Inglis Hi-Power up there these days? That would be a very cool pistol to get; beautiful gun design coupled with historical/national pride. Whaddaya think?

[CK]

I would like to have a Sig 220 in 45 ACP. But, I will settle for a Norinco 1911.

[loonie]

thanks for all posters above!

do you know which 1911 has 22 conversion kits availalble,I guess that would be another factor to decision;)

[ugaarguy]

do you know which 1911 has 22 conversion kits availalble,I guess that would be another factor to decision

You can pop a conversion kit on any 1911. You just swap the slide/barrel/recoil spring assembly onto the frame and use the included 22 magazine. You can also get them for CZs, Beretta 92s, Taurus 92s, Hi-Powers, Glocks, and probably a few others.

[Golddog]

How about a CZ 75B with a CZ Kadet .22 conversion kit? For the price of most 1911's, you can thus get a cocked and locked-capable 9mm or .40, plus a .22 unit to go with it.

[coyote_jr]

No doubt I will step on a few toes by saying this, but kimber is junk.

Ok I'm a newbie here but even I think this statement is poor form when trying to help someone with choosing a gun. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on Kimber, but how about some adding some reasons why to support your assertion? Why and how exactly are they "junk"? Maybe they are "junk" to you but you saying they are doesn't make it true. It's like a Ferrari owner saying Porsche is junk because he likes his choice much better, but that doesn't necessarily make Porsche a bad car.

When I decided to get a .45, I went to Murphy's in Tucson and said to the guy behind the counter that I wanted the best .45 he had in the store. Out of maybe three or four dozen 1911 frames and various others, and without saying a word, he reached in to the case and laid my Kimber Eclipse in front of me. Maybe he wanted to maximize his earning power off of me, who knows, but I hardly think the guy would put out a "junk" gun after that request, he knows I could have asked around and discovered if I had been duped.

To loonie: I love my Kimber Eclipse. I don't believe you can go wrong with a Kimber.

[Werewolf]

To loonie: I love my Kimber Eclipse. I don't believe you can go wrong with a Kimber.Minor Thread Hijack:

I bought my first Kimber 2 weeks ago - an Ultra Tac II.

In the first 100 rounds I got 4 FTF's and 2 stovepipes for a total of 6 failures .

Compare that to my S&W 1911 which has about 2500 rounds thru it with nary a failure - and well - I'm not too happy with Kimber (and since I bought it as a carry gun and not a range toy I am even less pleased). :fire:

I should'a known though. Lots and lots a folks right here on THR and in many threads have said many bad things about Kimber (including my son in law who had one that was truly junk).

But I'm gonna put about 500 rounds thru it before I decide if Kimber is crap or not since lots'a folk say they need breaking in (the manual says that too) - funny though that none of the other 7 handguns I own needed a breaking in period. :confused:

[loonie]

You can pop a conversion kit on any 1911. You just swap the slide/barrel/recoil spring assembly onto the frame and use the included 22 magazine. You can also get them for CZs, Beretta 92s, Taurus 92s, Hi-Powers, Glocks, and probably a few others.


you are telling me,I can buy a sig sauer 1911 revolution and get any .22 conversion kit to come in a .22 handgun? :D

[ugaarguy]

The SiG 1911 frames look standard to me, but you'll have to ask and see if someone has actually put a 22 conversion kit on one, or at least tried it. Of course the other kits are specific to those makes of pistol.

[Top_Notch]

1. Sig Sauer 1911
2. Colt 1911
3. Springfield Armory 1911
4. Smith & Wesson 1911
5. Para-Ordinance 1911
6. Glock 21


IMNSHO, 45 and 1911 go together like ice cream and apple pie.

And contrary to opinion, the gun you choose from any manufacturer may be a lemon. Some posters offer opinion, some fact, some offer a little of both based on personal experience and limited background. It's a personal decision and I don't see how some of these comments could sway anyone into buying or not buying a specific handgun.

But, that being said, I would look for a 1911 manufacturer that builds quality 1911's, uses quality Forged frames and slides, uses quality interior parts, whose design is close to the original (e.g. No external extractors! No series 80! ...and at least has easily removed lawyer type devices), and has a good reputation of standing behind their product. Then pick a specific model in your price range while trying to maximize your wants with their offerings to get most, if not all, of the features that are important to you in the initial purchase.

If you do this, you will quickly determine that there are 2 quality choices. I'll leave the names of those choices up to you to decide, but to me, it's obvious.
:uhoh:

[MAGNUMMAN]

Colt 1991. Then go buy yourself a Springer GI.

[GroovedG19]

From your list, either the Sig GSR or the SW1911.:D

[2nd_amendment]

I have the sig 229 in .40 and my very next purchase was the GSR revolution..by far my most favorite Sig yet.
so..........it it were me I would go with the Sig 1911:) :)

[MachIVshooter]

I bought my first Kimber 2 weeks ago - an Ultra Tac II.

In the first 100 rounds I got 4 FTF's and 2 stovepipes for a total of 6 failures .

Find me a 3" 1911 that doesn't have issues. One of the guys at an IDPA shoot I was at a few weeks back had just bought a Nighthawk 3 incher (don't remember the model, but it was a $2,800 pistol) That thing wouldn't run 2 mags without a failure. The 1911 was never designed to be so short, and we are constantly reminded of this.

If you want a 3 inch-ish .45, get one that was designed as such from the beginning.

My 5" Kimber 10mm runs fine.

[chaim]

When it comes to standard production 1911s (as opposed to the high dollar custom jobs) it seems to me that in quality S&W is first, SIG, Kimber, Springfield and Colt are about equal for second, and then there is everyone else (some of which are pretty good BTW).

If it was me, out of your list I'd look strongly at all the 1911s except the Para and go with your best overall deal. I'd also take a close look at the SIG 220 (it seems you are interested in a .45ACP) as you already have a SIG and are familiar with the MOA and feel and they are darned good guns.

[loonie]

it seems to me that in quality S&W is first, SIG, Kimber, Springfield and Colt are about equal for second, and then there is everyone else (some of which are pretty good BTW).



what made you think s&w 1911 is in the first place of quality?:confused:

[loonie]

If you do this, you will quickly determine that there are 2 quality choices. I'll leave the names of those choices up to you to decide, but to me, it's obvious.


could you stop beating around bush ,just give me the names,thanks:D

[chaim]

what made you think s&w 1911 is in the first place of qualityI've read fewer internet complaints on the S&W 1911s than the others. The only one of the major 1911 makers (mine is a Charles Daly and not on the list of my 2nd in quality) I have experience with is my best friend's Kimber which hasn't had any issues to speak of. All the big ones will be good- SIG, Colt, Kimber, Springfield- it is just that I have seen fewer complaints about the S&W than the others.

[loonie]

I've read fewer internet complaints on the S&W 1911s than the others. The only one of the major 1911 makers (mine is a Charles Daly and not on the list of my 2nd in quality) I have experience with is my best friend's Kimber which hasn't had any issues to speak of. All the big ones will be good- SIG, Colt, Kimber, Springfield- it is just that I have seen fewer complaints about the S&W than the others.

thanks very much,BTW,where did you read such complains about handgun? I've read it before,but forgot the url...

[1911 guy]

Here's my reasoning.
The Springfields have the best frames out there. Forged and machined true. No jiggling parts around to make up for mis-aligned holes and off-center milling. No muss, no fuss.

S&W seems to make a good pistol. I've never used one, but everyone I know who has one seems to like it. I did handle one without shooting it, looked good.

Colt makes a good pistol, just overpriced in my opinion.

Kimber has extractor problems. They went to the external extractor to get away from failures, but couldn't get that right, either. Now they're back to the same extractors they tried to get away from the first time. It's a crap shoot. You might get one that runs like a million bucks, you might be singing the blues.

I didn't mention Para Ordnance because you mentioned you'd like a .22 conversion. Para's have ramped barrels and most, if not all, conversions are for standard frames.

[loonie]

Here's my reasoning.
The Springfields have the best frames out there. Forged and machined true. No jiggling parts around to make up for mis-aligned holes and off-center milling. No muss, no fuss.

S&W seems to make a good pistol. I've never used one, but everyone I know who has one seems to like it. I did handle one without shooting it, looked good.

Colt makes a good pistol, just overpriced in my opinion.

Kimber has extractor problems. They went to the external extractor to get away from failures, but couldn't get that right, either. Now they're back to the same extractors they tried to get away from the first time. It's a crap shoot. You might get one that runs like a million bucks, you might be singing the blues.

I didn't mention Para Ordnance because you mentioned you'd like a .22 conversion. Para's have ramped barrels and most, if not all, conversions are for standard frames.

thanks for your words,I forgot about the 22 conversion kit because it costs even more than a .22 pistol. It sounds I have two choice,one is springfields armory 1911,another one is s&w 1911.Good,thanks.

[strambo]

To add to your choices...did you know Sig makes a single action only P220? It should fit your P226 holsters too.

[loonie]

To add to your choices...did you know Sig makes a single action only P220? It should fit your P226 holsters too.

for the reason why I dont consider p220,there is some complains on p220,I don't remember exactly where i read it.

[strambo]

Yeah, I seem to remember something about 220SAO teething problems...never heard anything bad about standard P220's though. Good luck with your purchase, I want to get a 1911 again soon. Had a Para a long time ago, but it was never reliable for me.

[Werewolf]

for the reason why I dont consider p220,there is some complains on p220,I don't remember exactly where i read it.Try and remember - I'd be real interested because I've never read a single bad thing about P220's other than the finish tends to rust a bit in harsh environments (mine included). My personal experience is they take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. Thousands of rounds thru mine with not a single failure - EVER - and it rides on my hip many a day when deep concealment isn't a requirement.

The reliability of that P220 is one of the reasons that a P226 in .40 S&W is high on my list of handguns that I will eventually acquire.

[loonie]

the reason I come back is I am still wonder which is my best choice-s&w or springfield armory:confused: making a decision is always a difficult time.

[Werewolf]

the reason I come back is I am still wonder which is my best choice-s&w or springfield armory making a decision is always a difficult time.
Yesterday 01:41 PMThink of Springfield Armory as a Buick and S&W as a Mercedes. They'll both get you to where you wish to go and you can afford either. Which would you buy?

[strambo]

Werewolf, this is the thread about the early P220 SAO problems on Sigforums http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/493104195/p/1
In summary, the gun will fire when the trigger is squeezed and the safety is depressed as little as 1/8" or so. Don't know if the problem has been fixed.
I've never heard anything bad about the standard P220 though.

[Baba Louie]

Loonie,

You're in Canada right?

I've got Colt 1911's, Springfield 1911's and thanks to BJ Clinton, 1 lousy Norinco 1911. I used the term lousy only in a manner of speaking. It, believe it or not, is the most accurate and reliable, out of the box 1911 I own and I would own another or two if I could find them readily available here... as you can there.

http://www.marstar.ca/

Well, it appears that Marstar is out of stock right now, but please do not overlook Norinco if a 1911 is one of your choices.

If your SIG P226 has been good to you, consider SIG's P220ST in .45.
And while it's not on your list, CZ's 97 is another pretty fine (not so) little .45.

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the items you listed.

[loonie]

Think of Springfield Armory as a Buick and S&W as a Mercedes. They'll both get you to where you wish to go and you can afford either. Which would you buy?


I prefer to get porshe:D anyway,I don't like buick;) if I got lots of money then go for s&w 1911:D

[MAGNUMMAN]

... and COLT is the Bentley.

[loonie]

and COLT is the Bentley.


u r abosolutely a colt nuts:D

[mjb]

Colt. It will keeps it's value like your Sig 226.

[pablo45]

GLOCK 21! and that is final